This came up on another forum (http://msfit.musclemag.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1577) I recently visited, and it's confusing me.

I've heard from a handful of bodybuilding nutrition experts that it is undesirable to consume dairy products while on a strict cut, yet I understand that some of these experts still promote the use of protein powders. Is there a big difference in how our bodies react to whey protein powder vs yogurt?


From the University of Guelph (http://www.foodsci.uoguelph.ca/dairyedu/concprod.html)

Whey Powder
Whey is the by-product in the manufacturing of cheese and casein. Disposing of this whey has long been a problem. For environmental reasons it cannot be discharged into lakes and rivers; for economical reasons it is not desirable to simply dump it to waste treatment facilities. Converting whey into powder has led to a number products that it can be incorporated into. It is most desirable, if and where possible, to use it for human food, as it contains a small but valuable protein component. It is also feasible to use it as animal feed. Between the pet food industry and animal feed mixers, hundred's of millions of pounds are sold every year. The feed industry may be the largest consumer of dried whey and whey products.
Whey powder is essentially produced by the same method as other milk powders. Reverse osmosis can be used to partially concentrate the whey prior to vacuum evaporation. Before the whey concentrate is spray dried, lactose crystallization is induced to decrease the hygroscopicity. This is accomplished by quick cooling in flash coolers after evaporation. Crystallization continues in agitated tanks for 4 to 24 h.

A fluidized bed may be used to produce large agglomerated particles with free-flowing, non-hygroscopic, no caking characteristics.

Whey Protein Concentrates
Both whey disposal problems and high-quality animal protein shortages have increased world-wide interest in whey protein concentrates. After clarification and pasteurization, the whey is cooled and held to stabilize the calcium phosphate complex, which later decreases membrane fouling. The whey is commonly processed using ultrafiltration, although reverse osmosis, microfiltration, and demineralization methods can be used. During ultrafiltration, the low molecular weight compounds such as lactose, minerals, vitamins and nonprotein nitrogen are removed in the permeate while the proteins become concentrated in the retentate. After ultrafiltration, the retentate is pasteurized, may be evaporated, then dried. Drying, usually spray drying, is done at lower temperatures than for milk in order that large amounts of protein denaturation may be avoided.

Allissa Carpio (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/alissa34.htm) says that whey protein powders and various types of dairy products are all good for a cutting diet. Does anyone disagree?

Your cut went great and you love yogurt as well as eat it daily right?

I dont know if anyone says yogurt is "bad".

I got in a huge fight about dairy products several months ago, so it's a touchy subject for me. That's why I'm trying to learn more.

Your cut went great and you love yogurt as well as eat it daily right?
Do you own a dairy farm and want me to be your public relations agent?:D

I eat between 1/2 C and 2 C of yogurt every day. It's my favorite food.

Yogurt is awesome!

I usually have 1/2 a cup several times a week at night with some fresh fruit and a bit of kashi for a healthy sweet tooth satisfier!

I am also undecided on dairy and its effects on my body. I tend to think I may have a mild allergy to it and that it makes me a bit bloated, but no conclusive evidence has been drawn yet. :lol:

Do you own a dairy farm and want me to be your public relations agent?:D

I eat between 1/2 C and 2 C of yogurt every day. It's my favorite food.

Thats exactly my point. If I did own a dairy farm you could be the face of Blissful Bovine INC.

I have an 8-oz. low fat sugar free yogurt daily. That hundred-and-nothing calories doesn't amount to a hill of beans when I'm cutting because I'm getting in anywhere from 7 to 11 workouts (including cardio, of course) per week.

Eat your yogurt. Unless you're Jay Cutler and you plan to stand next to Ronnie Coleman at Olympia, it ain't gonna matter much.

-R

My mom (mentioned in another thread as well) was just telling me about the studies she had read recently about dairy being linked to prostate problems...need to look into that too.

wh0 i think you are just intolerant all around :lol: ;)

I've got no problem with good yogurt. I think the best bet is full fat unsweetened yogurt. I see no point at all the the no fat, artificially flavored stuff.

I think plain skim yoghurt is great....I have it every day, mostly for the live cultures....

My stomach flora thanks me :)

Yoghurt is an absolute must if you've been on antibiotics for a while to help jump start some good colonies down in your gut.

The two foods are not equivalent. A single serving of each contains about the same amount of total calories, but whey protein powder will be virtually all protein while a serving of yogurt will have a marginal amount of protein along with a fair amount of sugar (and potentially fat depending on what kind you get).

You can't really replace one with the other in your diet, so I'm not sure why the comparison is warranted.

As far as I know, the main reason for avoiding dairy products while cutting has to do with the fact that they tend to allow someone to easily blow their caloric totals for the day, potentially without realizing it. This is certainly the case with non-filling things like milk.

Conversely, I think yogurt can be a great way to quell cravings for things like ice cream and so forth without consuming nearly the same amount of calories or fat. It also helps to restore your internal balance of good bacteria, which is always good.

A good reason for some to avoid dairy is because of the high lactose/sugar content. I'm mildly carb sensitive and, when trying to get very lean, dairy leaves me looking softer/feeling bloated.

I'm not really lactose intolerant but it does make a difference.

Though I'll say the serious bodybuilders I know drop dairy only before comp's... just like adjusting sodium. So for joe-average it's likely not a big deal.

A single serving of each contains about the same amount of total calories, but whey protein powder will be virtually all protein while a serving of yogurt will have a marginal amount of protein along with a fair amount of sugar (and potentially fat depending on what kind you get).

Hmm, that doesn't sound like any of the yoghurts I'm familiar with. According to the food labels on the yoghurts here, it's nearly all protein, with a very small amount of carbs, and zero fat. That tiny amount of carbs is lactose (not added sugar, etc), and represents the small amount of lactose that hasn't been converted to lactic acid during the yogurt-making process, along with the lactose in the fat-free milk (which is sometimes mixed with the plain yogurt to give it a different consistency and taste).

As far as I know, the main reason for avoiding dairy products while cutting has to do with the fact that they tend to allow someone to easily blow their caloric totals for the day, potentially without realizing it

That's my main reason for severely limiting how much dairy I eat. In my case, though, it's not because I inadvertently blow my caloric totals - it's because I have a big appetite, and need most of my calories to be as satisfying as possible, even when bulking and getting a decent surplus!! Yogurt tastes great and in my opinion has some great health benefits, but by heavens those tubs go down quickly and just leave me ready for more. When I cut again, I will almost certainly avoid dairy altogether (except for whey powder - although that, too, is something I could merrily overeat on if I weren't paranoid about accidentally running out of the stuff just when I need it).

Perhaps my results could be better, but I avoid (not deliberately, mind you) many of the "golden rules", such as avoiding dairy and fruit. I consume a decent bit of milk and tons of fruit and I cut like a damn samurai. For me, exercise plus overall calorie counting (plus decently balanced, spread out meals) works spectacularly. I eat nothing special and avoid nothing I like.

The two foods are not equivalent. A single serving of each contains about the same amount of total calories, but whey protein powder will be virtually all protein while a serving of yogurt will have a marginal amount of protein along with a fair amount of sugar (and potentially fat depending on what kind you get).

You can't really replace one with the other in your diet, so I'm not sure why the comparison is warranted.

As far as I know, the main reason for avoiding dairy products while cutting has to do with the fact that they tend to allow someone to easily blow their caloric totals for the day, potentially without realizing it. This is certainly the case with non-filling things like milk.

Conversely, I think yogurt can be a great way to quell cravings for things like ice cream and so forth without consuming nearly the same amount of calories or fat. It also helps to restore your internal balance of good bacteria, which is always good.
You can replace one with the other in your diet if you allow yourself to change your macronutrient targets. If a person is not training for competition, 20% of his/her calories from protein might be sufficient, as it is for me.

I eat fat free yogurt. My plain yogurt has 6 g protein and 10 g carbs in 1/2 C (64 calories). My fruit flavored has 6 g protein and 16 g carbs (88 calories). The only thing that's more filling to me for a smaller calorie count is vegetables. In fact, that's why I avoid protein powders; because they don't fill me up for the calories they provide.

So I'm curious about philph and Hort's replies. Do you find protein powder more filling per calorie than yogurt? When the bodybuilders you know avoid dairy, do they avoid protein powder too, since it's a dairy product?

Hmm, that doesn't sound like any of the yoghurts I'm familiar with.


The European yogurts are a very different animal than the typical yogurt on American shelves. We can find "real" yogurt if we try but like many processed american foods, many yogurts here have significant added sugar or even high fructose corn syrup. :blank:

So I'm curious about philph and Hort's replies. Do you find protein powder more filling per calorie than yogurt? When the bodybuilders you know avoid dairy, do they avoid protein powder too, since it's a dairy product?


"Filling" is not an issue for me. I eat six meals daily balanced to my macros. I drink plenty of water. I find that when people eat to feel "full" they are eating too much.

Processed whey is a different food stuff than whole dairy- I'm not aware of it having the same impact as whole dairy (with it's lactose). I believe I remember Jeremy Likness having a different view on this but on the whole, no, the big guys don't avoid whey, at least not in the various articles, food logs and conversations I've witnessed.

Yoghurt is an absolute must if you've been on antibiotics for a while to help jump start some good colonies down in your gut.

That depends. I've been on antibiotics for about two months, and just gone to two at a time. None of the digestive side effects are apparent. They told me to eat yogurt in case of diarrhea, but so far no problem.

I consume a decent bit of milk and tons of fruit and I cut like a damn samurai. For me, exercise plus overall calorie counting (plus decently balanced, spread out meals) works spectacularly. I eat nothing special and avoid nothing I like.

I'm on this side of the fence, too. Much easier to burn calories for me than to not eat them. According to my log last Sunday I burned 5241 calories. I normally eat a little under half that in a day, so that was a calorie deficit of a little more than one whole day's worth of eating. Rowing the 42.2 km was pretty comfortable, and I didn't have any bad feelings the whole day. But not eating anything for a whole day would make me feel pretty awful.

I'm on this side of the fence, too. Much easier to burn calories for me than to not eat them. According to my log last Sunday I burned 5241 calories. I normally eat a little under half that in a day, so that was a calorie deficit of a little more than one whole day's worth of eating. Rowing the 42.2 km was pretty comfortable, and I didn't have any bad feelings the whole day. But not eating anything for a whole day would make me feel pretty awful.

Yeah, you and Skoorb (and others, me included) are doing uncommon amounts of cardio weekly to achieve this calorie deficit. Many people here aren't. I know that, along with Skoorb, there aren't too many things that I DON'T eat while still maintaing my current weight and/or adding muscle.

I love yogurt and eat 1.5 cups every day. Does it adversly affect my performance? No. Could it, along with the milk I drink and the cheese I eat, not digest as easily or cause me to look .00056% more bloated, who cares.

Race on!

So I'm curious about philph and Hort's replies. Do you find protein powder more filling per calorie than yogurt?

It's hard to say, as I tend to eat different portion sizes of the two items. I think I would very probably find protein powder more filling, if I compared them gram per gram (and quite possibly also if I compared them calorie per calorie). This is maybe because the protein shake contains more water than the yogurt (if mixed in a typical fashion), and maybe also an effect caused by the taste, yogurt being very 'more-ish' as we say in the UK (although one or two protein powders also contrive to compel you to eat more - think Dymatize ISO chocolate, which I could happily sit and binge on!)

When the bodybuilders you know avoid dairy, do they avoid protein powder too, since it's a dairy product?

I've no idea...

Do you find protein powder more filling per calorie than yogurt?

I eat 175g of yogourt/day ( in one sitting)

whey seems to satiate me better than yogourt, yogourt is way more filling but my appetite dies faster with pure protein.

The European yogurts are a very different animal than the typical yogurt on American shelves. We can find "real" yogurt if we try but like many processed american foods, many yogurts here have significant added sugar or even high fructose corn syrup. :blank:

Breyers Light Probiotic Yogurt
8oz serving
Calories: 100
Fat: 1.5 g
Carbs: 15 g (sugars 10 g, I guess these are naturally occuring milk sugars, since the only sweeteners I see listed are aspartame)
Protein: 8 g

Not bad IMO. I typically blend a cup into my PWO shake with 1 cup skim milk and 1 scoop of low-carb whey