SO of course I have read all the threads debating what are great PWO's.

Since I have been taking a more BB approach, my glucose levels have been rising. I am not sure of the cause.

I was for several months using dextrose PWO (with protein whey). But after 6 month or so of that was the first time my glucose levels rose above healthy levels.

I switched to a PWO of Oats and Bananas... but I do not know the effect because this year my work-outs have not been consistent. But a month ago when I was tested for my surgeries my glucose levels hit 120.

This has never been an issue before in my life.

What is true is that I think I have been consuming more cake and ice cream on a regular basis since "cheat days" were allowed. I don't know if that is the cause. However, despite this, my weight stayed down.

The last couple of months when I have not been able to workout with weights because of medical stuff (I've kept up pretty well with cardio), my weight has gone back up as well as losing muscle.

So I am embarking on a few week strict regime until my next surgery. I am going to invest in a glucose meter. I posted a query thread in Fitness Equipment about getting and using one.

But I want to figure out what to do PWO with my protein.. I need to eat bananas 3 times a week so that seemed a good time. As I said I have been combining it with ground oats, but reading the threads debates, I am wondering if I am doing more harm than good with the complex carbs of oats. Maybe I should skip that. I am pretty confident the dextrose does not work for me... because when I was doing it... I had a very hard time eating my last meal which was also a protein/carb meal. On the other hand, that is when I got my best results. So this is totally confusing.

I know the bottom line is to figure out what works for me. But I just don't have a sufficiently consistent pattern of working out to have a sense. And I know that on that bottom line is also the importance of consistency... something I have not been able to achieve for a whole lot of life reasons... and with my medical stuff, that will still probably be the case for a while.

SO I would just like to hear what people think, given the info above... I know I will get a lot of conflicting points of view... I am not concerned about that... I just value people's thoughtfulness here and I figure reading people's various views and their reasons. I will be able to pick for now what seems to fit best with where I am at.

You are putting too much effort into one little insignificant meal/event and should probably be concentrating on the bigger picture.

Until you gain some consistency in your eating habits and exercise schedule, the PWO shake would be the last place I'd worry about. Come to think of it, really, I'd just drop the PWO shake (blasphemy I know) altogether and have a regular complete meal if you really think you need it (or nothing at all).


What is your daily diet and workout schedule like?
How do you calculate your shake?

Cheats? How many and how often?
IceCream and cake is going to raise your sugar a helluva lot more than a banana (which is vitamins, fiber etc...).

How much sugar (refined and natural) do you get in a day? Do you snack here and there?

Another thought is to get on board with a trainer/ dietician. Someone who will set a plan that you can follow and check in with. It might be beneficial, especially if consistency is an issue.

Of course, Gordo, you are correct about consistency... the thing is that my glucose levels started to rise even during the period I was consistent.

My cheat day was Saturday evening and what I did was have a huge sundae at my favorite ice cream place, something in the past I rarely did. Sometimes it would be cake, or both or Dunkin Donuts.The only other sugar was the dextrose in my PWO.

I would not be so concerned except for what happened to my glucose levels. My weight went down, my BF went down, my clothing size went down significantly and my glucose went up (as did my triglycerides.)

I think what I am going to try is just a banana with the protein without the oats and see how that works. And I am not going back to my Saturday night sundae and see how that goes.

Lowering one's weight does not always correlate with lowering one's blood sugar. Blood test can be highly reflective of what you recently ate. If you %bf is a little high you will be insulin resistant too a degree, this may lead to hyperinsulinemia. Not to say you are hyperglycaemic but if it's higher than normal, yes, cut out the sweet treats. Has you doctors suggested an insulin level test? It wouldn't hurt to see where that's at. If you sugar is high and starts to stay that way, it could be a sign that you need to examine this further with your GP.

You haven't posted a daily diet but if you say that the Sunday sundae was your only additional sugar....then so be it. However sugar is everywhere: sauces, coffee, meals, packaged good, when you eat out they add sugar just cause, fruit*, dairy*, vegetables* and so on....


* although avoiding these due to sugar concerns is unecessary unless you're a severe diabetic and even then its just a matter of bookkeeping.


it all adds up. How often do you have a PWO shake in a week?

I think what I am going to try is just a banana with the protein without the oats and see how that works. If blood glucose is a concern, flip it around and have the oats instead of the banana

Thanks for the concern. I am pretty careful about the content of my food as I prepare it all myself and I purchase it at Whole Foods, mostly organic. The few instances I buy a prepared food, it is from Whole Foods and I scrutinize those labels carefully.

What is true is that in both instances of the glucose test, I fasted over night. I did not recall what I ate the day before the first one but I did have my cheat day the day before the second one. I did not know I was going to be tested for my glucose levels... so I don't know how much that contributed. I also did not understand then (though I do now) that eating a high sugar food the day before, even if I fasted over night before the test can affect the glucose levels.

My doctor is not yet concerned but I am. That's why I want to get a glucose monitor and see what happens after daily monitoring.

The banana has to be eaten anyway at some point. I need it for the potassium or I get severe leg cramps. I've tried supps and they don't work. I eat other foods that are high in potassium regularly (i.e., daily) (particularly tomatoes, spinach and broccoli) but the leg cramps are definitely correlated with whether I eat about 3 bananas a week or not.

I understand your recommendation to flip the choice but I think I will try it with the banana first and see how that goes, then try the other way as you suggest.

I am also going to change my cheat day foods to fruit :D as now is the summer season and for too long I have not eaten fruits on a regular basis. And watermelon is my all time most favorite food in the world, even more than chocolate, ice cream, cake and yes, even Dunkin Donuts. :lol: And watermelon has the additional advantage of being high in potassium.

Phillydude gave the great suggestion of getting a prescription to pay for the glucose meter on my query thread over in Fitness equipment.

I second Gordo's advice about consistency.

Also, how much Dex were you using? You may simply be overdoing it. Additionally, I've read things that suggested that people at higher body fat percentages benefit less from high doses of simple carbohydrates after intense exercise. I know that I didn't feel nearly as much of a positive effect from spiking after my workouts until my weight had dropped quite a bit.

For the record, I use a mixture of Dextrose and Maltodextrin PWO (24g Dex, 45g Maltodextrin). Using a greater proportion of Dex doesn't agree with me.

Also, have you ever supplemented with ALA? I've found this to be incredibly useful for regulating blood sugar levels and it has benefited both muscle-building and fat loss for me. I currently use Designer Supplements' Glucophase XR, which contains 250mg K-R-ALA along with D-Biotin and Quercetin. I take one in the morning right when I wake up, one right after I workout along with my PWO shake to help cram all those calories into my muscle cells, and another dose right before bed to help prevent fat gain while sleeping.

Can't recommend it enough. I notice far superior results (and feel much better) with GXR than I did wth regular ALA.

Glucose levels increased from PWO? I buy it. For me, I got two cavities since beginning with dextrose PWO and have since switched to raisins instead.

I've also read a lot at T-Nation about nixing the whole PWO drink anyway (for people with a significant amount of fat to lose).

One friend who is frightening in shape eats an egg salad sandwich and a 1/2 apple after he lifts.

Let us know what you decide.

Glucose levels increased from PWO? I buy it. For me, I got two cavities since beginning with dextrose PWO and have since switched to raisins instead.

I've also read a lot at T-Nation about nixing the whole PWO drink anyway (for people with a significant amount of fat to lose).

One friend who is frightening in shape eats an egg salad sandwich and a 1/2 apple after he lifts.

Let us know what you decide.

I think you hit the nail on the head. If one has a significant amount of fat to lose (which I did and still do), I suspect that a PWO with dextrose does not serve the purpose it is intended to.

So I too am wondering if one falls into that category (i.e., significant amount of BF to lose).... what should one be looking for a PWO to do? Would a banana w/protein isolate, being medium GI still replace muscle glycogen, shuttle nutrients and blunt cortesol? One trainer who advised me against the dex said that, with my body fat, I have enough insulin already in my body that I don't need to stimulate it to blunt cortesol.

And I can't figure out what the theory is behind taking a complex carb like ground oats as PWO. (OK, so I am being a little lazy here in not re-reading the threads I found regarding this and re-assimilate all this info. It's amazing how quickly the info leaves the brain :lol: Maybe it's riding an insulin train out... :lol: .)