I thought I'd throw up the link to an interview with Layne Norton (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/audio/am/awesome_muscles_podcast_10apr2006_int3.mp3), where he gets into his views on bodybuilding nutrition and extensive details on one of the areas of greater interest in here lately...BCAA's.

Thanks Walt, appreciate the link. :tucool:

I got in an argument with that dude awhile back. I guess he means well but he was kind of an ass to me on the bb.com board. He did help me find what I was looking for, though. Good info there if you're interested in BCAAs.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=704634

I got in an argument with that dude awhile back. I guess he means well but he was kind of an ass to me on the bb.com board. He did help me find what I was looking for, though. Good info there if you're interested in BCAAs.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=704634
And posting this referenced thread was supposed to accomplish....?

And posting this referenced thread was supposed to accomplish....?

I thought it was a pretty interesting thread with a ton of links to studies on BCAA's that I've only just begun to read. Didn't really see anyone being antisocial. Thought it was a pretty good back-and-forth.

M@

I thought it was a pretty interesting thread with a ton of links to studies on BCAA's that I've only just begun to read. Didn't really see anyone being antisocial. Thought it was a pretty good back-and-forth.

M@
EH...My reading into stuff that really isn't there. My being a dillhole again apparently. Layne's given me a huge amount of help over the past year and a half.

Layne's given me a huge amount of help over the past year and a half.

Gotta stick up for your boys. :tucool:

It is more disgraceful to distrust than to be decieved by our friends.
-- La Rochefoucauld

M@

I got in an argument with that dude awhile back. I guess he means well but he was kind of an ass to me on the bb.com board. He did help me find what I was looking for, though. Good info there if you're interested in BCAAs.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=704634
Interesting thread, but I didn't think he came off as an ass at all.

Since then have you been supplementing with BCAAs or they couldn't convince you? If so, what kind of results have you seen?

I've got no way to listen to the audio on my computer (no sound card) :). What is the gist of it?

I happen to run across a slideshow on Nortin - 1997-2004 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3516327422111020106&q=bodybuilding+duration%3Amedium&pl=true)

I happen to run across a slideshow on Nortin - 1997-2004 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3516327422111020106&q=bodybuilding+duration%3Amedium&pl=true)
Cool! Skippy Podar is in there too. :)

Interesting thread, but I didn't think he came off as an ass at all.

Since then have you been supplementing with BCAAs or they couldn't convince you? If so, what kind of results have you seen?
Fair enough. I'm just a skeptical guy looking for info.

I bought some bulk BCAAs and found them basically inedible. Just the other day I finally bought a cap-m-quik dealie to try and cap them. I'm going to give them a shot but I'm not expecting a lot. Seems like you really need to take a large amount to see results.

If they were as cheap and tasty as whey I'd probably have no problem trying them out but they sorta seem like more hassle then they're worth.

Personally I'm just a big believer in the "time + food = mass" theory. Old skool.

Fair enough. I'm just a skeptical guy looking for info.

I bought some bulk BCAAs and found them basically inedible. Just the other day I finally bought a cap-m-quik dealie to try and cap them. I'm going to give them a shot but I'm not expecting a lot. Seems like you really need to take a large amount to see results.

If they were as cheap and tasty as whey I'd probably have no problem trying them out but they sorta seem like more hassle then they're worth.

Personally I'm just a big believer in the "time + food = mass" theory. Old skool.
"Old skool?" Guys were doing the BCAA Megadose thing LONG ago. :)

PS: Pick up some Xtend, it tastes decent (not necessarily "good" but not too bad).

Fair enough. I'm just a skeptical guy looking for info.

I bought some bulk BCAAs and found them basically inedible. Just the other day I finally bought a cap-m-quik dealie to try and cap them. I'm going to give them a shot but I'm not expecting a lot. Seems like you really need to take a large amount to see results.

If they were as cheap and tasty as whey I'd probably have no problem trying them out but they sorta seem like more hassle then they're worth.

Personally I'm just a big believer in the "time + food = mass" theory. Old skool.
All I use is bulk BCAA's. I don't feel the need to buy any preflavored cocktails. I've mixed them with Primaforce's grape and watermellon Substance, and/or Crystal Light. Yeah, they don't mix up well, but then again I know of plenty of other foods that people recommend that I have no interest in.
As far as BCAA's working or not...I say do what you're comfortable with. I've heard it from more than enough well respected natural bodybuilders, that they consider BCAA's to a staple supplement. Even more so than creatine.
I have no interest in sitting at my PC listening to an audio interview, so I burned it to disc, and listen to it while driving to and from work. You can read all of the information in the world and still not understand what's right there in front of you. If I see more than 3 paragraghs right away, I'm most likely not even going to take the time, or I'll print it to not read anytime in the near future. :lol: If you listen to Layne's explainations of BCAA's and protein intake, I think that it's alot easier for the layperson to grasp.
I think that if anybodies looking for somebody else to talk them into taking a particular supplement, no matter what that may be...they've already made up their mind on it and should follow what they believe in.

I happen to run across a slideshow on Nortin - 1997-2004 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3516327422111020106&q=bodybuilding+duration%3Amedium&pl=true)

even cooler is the video of him doing glute-hams

"Old skool?" Guys were doing the BCAA Megadose thing LONG ago. :)

PS: Pick up some Xtend, it tastes decent (not necessarily "good" but not too bad).
I know that BCAAs have been around as a supplement for awhile, but I think they just really got popular recently, especially when Scivation stepped in. Same this with NO supps (I'm also on the fence about these).

Xtend, for the amount you need to take (supposedly) to see results, it seems too expensive. I am already spending about as much as I can afford on meat and whey. And I figure I will see more results from a high-protein diet than if I cut back on whey and take Xtend. But I am at least going to try the cheap bulk BCAAs for a month. No harm in experimenting.

I think a lot of what funds the supp industry is inpatience. Dudes want to see results now. I'm not saying that certain supps don't help, but really, the only way you can get big is to just eat right and keep lifting for years and years. I am accepting this more and more.

But I am at least going to try the cheap bulk BCAAs for a month. No harm in experimenting.
I've advised quite a few people (including 1FastGTX) to bypass the Xtend and go for the cheaper bulk powder. It's not being cheap...it's about trying to afford the supplements you'd like to take. Although...I think in the end after adding flavor and other aminos, it works out to be about the same, or maybe even cheaper for the Xtend. I'm sticking to bulk personally.

I've advised quite a few people (including 1FastGTX) to bypass the Xtend and go for the cheaper bulk powder. It's not being cheap...it's about trying to afford the supplements you'd like to take. Although...I think in the end after adding flavor and other aminos, it works out to be about the same, or maybe even cheaper for the Xtend. I'm sticking to bulk personally.
I sat down and did the math once and it's way cheaper to buy bulk. Even if you cap it, you still wind up saving like $20 a month.

Kino, I know you tried or still use Arg/Orn and/or AAKG. Any luck with those? I haven't felt much pump from them, but it could be I wasn't taking enough.

I sat down and did the math once and it's way cheaper to buy bulk. Even if you cap it, you still wind up saving like $20 a month.

Kino, I know you tried or still use Arg/Orn and/or AAKG. Any luck with those? I haven't felt much pump from them, but it could be I wasn't taking enough.
Haven't used arginine in a while, though I'm getting a decent amount through the Supercharge I use as a PreW/O (6g when I take it). I've still got some arginine and di-arginine malate up in the cupboard, that I'll break out come summer (for looks of course :D ).
I'm just doing the BCAA's (40g T days / 20 NonT days) and citrulline (8g T days / 4 NonT days). I've kinda dropped them at the moment due to a shoulder injury. I'm not looking for pump anymore...I'm looking for results. I really feel that I've got genetics on my side, because it doesn't take much for me to get a great pump during a workout...and I see the results really quickly. Then again, I've trained in some capacity most of my life, so I've got that time factor there as well.

I know that BCAAs have been around as a supplement for awhile, but I think they just really got popular recently, especially when Scivation stepped in. Same this with NO supps (I'm also on the fence about these).

Xtend, for the amount you need to take (supposedly) to see results, it seems too expensive. I am already spending about as much as I can afford on meat and whey. And I figure I will see more results from a high-protein diet than if I cut back on whey and take Xtend. But I am at least going to try the cheap bulk BCAAs for a month. No harm in experimenting.

I think a lot of what funds the supp industry is inpatience. Dudes want to see results now. I'm not saying that certain supps don't help, but really, the only way you can get big is to just eat right and keep lifting for years and years. I am accepting this more and more.
It's not that expensive IMHO. If you're going up to 50+g/day then yeah, it is. But for something for your pre/during/post I don't think it's too bad.

I've advised quite a few people (including 1FastGTX) to bypass the Xtend and go for the cheaper bulk powder. It's not being cheap...it's about trying to afford the supplements you'd like to take. Although...I think in the end after adding flavor and other aminos, it works out to be about the same, or maybe even cheaper for the Xtend. I'm sticking to bulk personally.
For me it worked out close to the same when I factored in:

1) I wanted all 3 major ingredients (BCAA, Glutamine [although I am not known for being a huge fan of this], Citrulline). Buying all 3 in bulk would be expensive.

2) Flavoring - I would have been buying a lot of Crystal Lite and S/F Kool Aid. :D

3) I got a big discount from a store. :)

The major factor for me was not cost though, it was flat out laziness. I mix up enough Nitrean, creatine, etc. during the day and I didn't want to go mixing up all 3 powders myself. I wanted something that was already ready to go; I just had to put 1-2 scoops in water and shake a shaker bottle. :)

I might go back to bulk powder once I stop megadosing.

For anyone reading the thread and interested, here is the price breakdown I found.

First, I believe I've read, possibly from Layne himself, that you ideally want like 6-7g of leucine post-workout. Probably some pre-workout too, but most definitely post-workout.

One serving of Xtend (2 scoops) contains 3.5g of leucine. If you take 7g of leucine (4 scoops) and there's 90 scoops in a container, that works out to one container lasting 45 days, since you are doubling the dose. I found Xtend for $50.99 for the big 1000+g size.

There are no serving sizes of bulk BCAAs. Basically one gram is one gram, and the BCAA ratio is 2:1:1 (same as Xtend). Since there is nothing else in it, if you were to take 7g of leucine a day, that would be 14 total grams. The big containers are 1000g, so that's 71 days (1000g divided by 14) worth of BCAAs for $39.99.

If you add in the price of empty caps (assuming you cap), that's $31.00 for 1000 large size caps, with each cap holding roughly one gram or maybe a bit more.

So basically, if you cap them, which is what I'm going to try since I already bought the bulk powder and can't stand to eat it, it actually does cost a bit more than Xtend, plus you get the added hassle of having to cap it. If you don't cap it, it's a lot cheaper. Which is why I bought the bulk powder initially, thinking it wouldn't be as bad as I find it to be. You live and learn.

You also get other stuff in the Xtend mixture (Glutamine, Citrulline Malate), but since I don't really want those, it doesn't really appear to me to be a value.

Anyway, what it all adds up to is another $40-50 a month spent on supps, and I guess it depends on how much money you have to throw around. I tend to just double up on the whey (which of course does contain BCAAs, albeit slower-digesting), since there's little argument that you want the maximum amount of protein that your body can digest.

even cooler is the video of him doing glute-hams


NO Fricking Kidding!!,...Incredible!!

>>>--->

I like the message at the end of the video. I think I will creat a poster for my workout room with this on it, minus a couple words,...

"You can't buy Intensity!"

The message actually says,..."You can't buy intensity in a pill or get it through a needle" ,..Something to that effect.

I found Xtend for $50.99 for the big 1000+g size.
First you need to shop in the right places (http://www.dpsnutrition.net/product_information.asp?number=PE037&back=yes&dept=1168&last=1168). :D

Thought I'd pop up a link to Layne's thread over on Bodybuilding.com (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=785245), after turning Pro this past weekend.

Thought I'd pop up a link to Layne's thread over on Bodybuilding.com (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=785245), after turning Pro this past weekend.
Nice! Thanks for posting this.

He looks incredible in those prejudging pics!

In another 12-14 years,(and I have told him this) he is actually going to look even BETTER, with the increase in quality that muscle maturity brings. He's still a young kid, well compared to me :rolleyes: and as long as he does not compete too often, he'll improve and still make progress into his 40's.

In another 12-14 years,(and I have told him this) he is actually going to look even BETTER, with the increase in quality that muscle maturity brings. He's still a young kid, well compared to me :rolleyes: and as long as he does not compete too often, he'll improve and still make progress into his 40's.
Agreed!

On another (yet similar) note, I am really noticing that a lot of the natural athletes are coming in better and better in recent years.

hehe....this is his "relaxed" pose

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=301567&d=1147046056

Layne looked really good.... a little overpowered by his upper but otherwise nice form :tu:

Agreed!

On another (yet similar) note, I am really noticing that a lot of the natural athletes are coming in better and better in recent years.

Yep....this is because the natural competitor is becoming more and more aware of how important NUTRITION is. Much more so than the training, and waaaaaaaaaaay more so than supplements.

How one EATS 30 weeks out from a show, is just as important as how one eats 1 week out (peak week) from a show. (Unless of course you are one of the rarities who are truly blessed genetically).

Don't believe me? Ask Layne. He began "dieting" 41 weeks ago.