I just watched a show on Discovery Health all about Gastric Bypass surgery, and its increased use with teenagers.

Honestly, for those of us who have lost 80+ pounds (112 myself), how good does it feel to be able to accomplish something with your own willpower and hard work, and not the knife of a surgeon? I know that some people have no other choice, but only 9 months ago I was 310+ pounds, and 49% BF...and was getting talked into gastric bypass from my family. Now at 199, 22.5%, I'm the one laughing. It's a great feeling.

I know it sounds cruel and twisted, but when I hear about people who have had that surgery, and are having all the complications, scars, eating and nutrition problems, I get an incredible boost of motivation to work out. It's amazing what willpower can do.

I know this thread probably has no real merit, but I felt like thinking out loud, and possibly providing some motivation to everyone else...

I just watched a show on Discovery Health all about Gastric Bypass surgery, and its increased use with teenagers.

Honestly, for those of us who have lost 80+ pounds (112 myself), how good does it feel to be able to accomplish something with your own willpower and hard work, and not the knife of a surgeon? I know that some people have no other choice, but only 9 months ago I was 310+ pounds, and 49% BF...and was getting talked into gastric bypass from my family. Now at 199, 22.5%, I'm the one laughing. It's a great feeling.

I know it sounds cruel and twisted, but when I hear about people who have had that surgery, and are having all the complications, scars, eating and nutrition problems, I get an incredible boost of motivation to work out. It's amazing what willpower can do.

I know this thread probably has no real merit, but I felt like thinking out loud, and possibly providing some motivation to everyone else...Nothing wrong with a pat on the back. You are right, willpower can do it and it's a shame that for those who "have no other choice" they lack that control over their lives, such that the only way to lose weight is to have somebody else cut their torso open.

They also don't learn how to care for their body and respect themselves. You have. Congrats on the amazing progress by the way, you are an inspiration to those from dire beginnings. Awesome :tu:

No kidding. I know alot of people that are moderately overweight and they "wish they were obese so they could get the surgery". Does it get much lazier than that?

On a sadder note a coworker I had that did get the surgery cosntantly has to have the little ring tightened because he isnt losing weight fast enough. Wanna know why? He eats stuff like milk shakes and cheesecake and other things that go right through the ring. Wonder how he got to be 400+ pounds in the first place?

I. Now at 199, 22.5%, I'm the one laughing. It's a great feeling.

I get an incredible boost of motivation to work out. It's amazing what willpower can do.
Be proud, but with the same determination, be sure you never go back!

my father had gastric by pass....in one year he lost 105 lbs.....he since then had it reversed and has gained most of it back...

i about a year ago decided to change my body and have lost 130 lbs..

and am activley chasing 9 percent body fat....

basically you can do the same things without the surgery..i say its a lazy way out..americans wnat there food fast...and there weight loss in the same package

my father had gastric by pass....in one year he lost 105 lbs.....he since then had it reversed and has gained most of it back...

i about a year ago decided to change my body and have lost 130 lbs..

and am activley chasing 9 percent body fat....

basically you can do the same things without the surgery..i say its a lazy way out..americans wnat there food fast...and there weight loss in the same packageWhy did he reverse it? Did he want to eat more, and is he glad he did reverse it?

Listening to enduranceradio.com I found a lady who had the surgery and is competing in triathlons. Now, she's doing pretty badly, but she's having a great time and entering them on a consistent basis. She said nutritionally it's a bit tricky, since she can't eat much at once. She said she needed the surgery to get a jump start. In her current state of mind I expect that she could have an obese non-surgically altered body and reach the same state, but we live and learn, I guess.

It is a lazy way out, although some of the people getting it truly and honestly believe they cannot lose weight without the surgery. The sad thing is not so much that they are lazy but that they have such an oblique view of reality, believing that they are genetically unique in that they are unable to get to a healthy weight through non-surgical means. It's the kind of things science fiction books are written about; "A future in which mankind has such excess life-supporting resources around him that he needs to artificially restrict it, a slave to his own desires."

Across the globe millions die of malnutrition and here in the West we've got such hypernutrition that we are killing ourselves. It's truly sinful and reproachful.

No kidding. I know alot of people that are moderately overweight and they "wish they were obese so they could get the surgery". Does it get much lazier than that?


That's like the Simpsons episode where Homer over-ate so he could get super fat and be able to work from home.

Congratulations. You've taken the high road and found the wherewithall to change your mind and your body - no one can take that from you and you've proven the merits of hard work once again. There are few greater feelings of accomplishment. I know; I went from 30%+ body fat in mid-2003 to 9~10% last summer.

Now set a new goal and run for it with all you've got! Best of luck,

-R

Ok, i just had to write something to defend those who get gastric bypass.

I agree that No ONE should get this surgery without having failed multiple attempts at losing weight through exercise/diet changes/lifestyle changes. And, I also agree that there are those that should not be getting gastric bypass (or some form of obesity surgery whether it be lap gastric band, etc), since they do not meet some of the strict criteria (multiple attempts at dieting, comorbid conditions -diabetes,reflux,hypertension,arthritis,etc, psych eval, social work eval).

However, there are those patients who truly benefit from this operation. Having performed this operation many times, I am now a believer that it truly improves the lifestyle as well as increase lifespan of truly morbidly obese patients. There have been multiple,multiple studies demonstrating this. As far as complications go, they are low as long as it's done at a high-volume center. Even if these patients had not had surgery, they would have had multiple other complications eventually from their obesity and comorbidities. Please don't cut these patients down as "lazy" people, because they are not. I feel sympathetic to these people and truly empathize with their situation...it sucks to be 600 lbs, wheelchair bound, and have arthritic knees/hips as well as chronically edematous legs with ulcerations, not to mention diabetes/high blood pressure/ bad gastro esophageal reflux.

Just my two cents.

However, there are those patients who truly benefit from this operation. Having performed this operation many times, I am now a believer that it truly improves the lifestyle as well as increase lifespan of truly morbidly obese patients. I agree that some truly do benefit from this and I wouldn't hold it against someone who has struggled for years to lose weight. Not everybody has Stone-like willpower, so no matter how hard they try they will fail. If they need surgery to help them, then I hope it works. I hope it helps them overcome the health problems they would have otherwise had.

I feel sympathetic to these people and truly empathize with their situation...it sucks to be 600 lbs, wheelchair bound, and have arthritic knees/hips as well as chronically edematous legs with ulcerations, not to mention diabetes/high blood pressure/ bad gastro esophageal reflux. On the other hand, I don't feel sympathetic to them when they get to the point they are wheelchair or bed bound. That's (most often, and imo) their own damn fault.

-Mike

On the other hand, I don't feel sympathetic to them when they get to the point they are wheelchair or bed bound. That's (most often, and imo) their own damn fault.

-Mike

I've always wondered if they truly are bed bound, how are they getting their food. SOMEONE is enabling them.

I've always wondered if they truly are bed bound, how are they getting their food. SOMEONE is enabling them.The spouse or family brings them food.

Ok, i just had to write something to defend those who get gastric bypass.

I agree that No ONE should get this surgery without having failed multiple attempts at losing weight through exercise/diet changes/lifestyle changes. And, I also agree that there are those that should not be getting gastric bypass (or some form of obesity surgery whether it be lap gastric band, etc), since they do not meet some of the strict criteria (multiple attempts at dieting, comorbid conditions -diabetes,reflux,hypertension,arthritis,etc, psych eval, social work eval).

However, there are those patients who truly benefit from this operation. Having performed this operation many times, I am now a believer that it truly improves the lifestyle as well as increase lifespan of truly morbidly obese patients. There have been multiple,multiple studies demonstrating this. As far as complications go, they are low as long as it's done at a high-volume center. Even if these patients had not had surgery, they would have had multiple other complications eventually from their obesity and comorbidities. Please don't cut these patients down as "lazy" people, because they are not. I feel sympathetic to these people and truly empathize with their situation...it sucks to be 600 lbs, wheelchair bound, and have arthritic knees/hips as well as chronically edematous legs with ulcerations, not to mention diabetes/high blood pressure/ bad gastro esophageal reflux.

Just my two cents.

I would add to the criteria that they HAVE to redefine their relationship with food. The surgery IS defeatable. You can eat through the procedures. The body is amazing. In time, it WILL adjust to a 20 cc stomach, a band, etc. If you keep stuffing your face you will gain it back. I've see it over and over.

Surgeons and centers who perform the procedure, I believe justify it in their minds and in their pocketbooks by pointing to the rapid weight loss and improvement of diabetes. It lets them sleep at night in their $1000000 homes with the ferrari and mercedes (sorry John) in the garage. Most places howwever don't stress the lifestyle changes needed. I believe morbid obesity is a pyschological problem that SHOULD NOT be treated with surgery, at least in its current form.!!!!

If it does require surgery, why not just wire someones jaw shut, HUH?! You don;t have to rearrange someone's intestinal tract, expose them to serious risks in and after surgery and then charge them tens of thousands to get them to stop eating.

Fuck it, pay me $5000 and I'll follow you around with a cattle prod and stick you if you eat carbs!

And DON'T think there aren't many surgeons out there that perform this procedure because it is LUCRATIVE. The intestinal bypass procedure has been present since the 70's when they killed a lot of people! Then it went away just to resurface again with a vengence. With reimbursements to doctors dropping and a whole lot of fat people around, a lot of surgeons are starting to perform this procedure, some with not entirely altruistic motives.

The spouse or family brings them food.

I watched the documentary "The Half Ton Man" a couple of months ago. There was a lady who was like 400 pounds and bed ridden. Her husband would bring her porkchops, then when he left she'd eat it, then say the dog ate it and she was still hungry. She'd do this like 3 or 4 times and he'd keep bringing her food.

I think when you get to that state it's really a Food Addiction, I was lazy/fat but I was like 230 at my max.

Also, I think a lot of these people get sucked in by fad diets like Atkins and once they fail they feel hopeless. If they were better educated with regards to health/nutrition and losing weight they probably wouldn't feel like Gastric Bypass and miracle diets were their only hope. It's a failure on multiple levels.

Ok Guys. I Had This Done 3 Yrs Ago And Some Of You Need To Educate Your Self On This. Some Of Us Bust Our Ass To Mantain And To Take Care Of Our Bodies, After Suergery. I For One Work Out 6 Days A Week, Following The Same Programs As You. I Eat The Same Way As You, Just Not As Much. Some Of You Are Looking For Answers To Some Of Your Demans, Other Wise We All Would Be Skinny And Not On This Site.

Ok Guys. I Had This Done 3 Yrs Ago And Some Of You Need To Educate Your Self On This. Some Of Us Bust Our Ass To Mantain And To Take Care Of Our Bodies, After Suergery. I For One Work Out 6 Days A Week, Following The Same Programs As You. I Eat The Same Way As You, Just Not As Much. Some Of You Are Looking For Answers To Some Of Your Demans, Other Wise We All Would Be Skinny And Not On This Site.

I would never call gastric bypass surgery the easy way out. The pain after surgery is BAD, but gets better. The risks, even if uncommon, can be catastrophic. It is not easy. I think a lot of people before surgery may think this is easier than losing weight naturally, though. They are SOOOO WRONG.

Let me ask you something. If you had put in all the effort you did after surgery before you had the procedure, do you think you could have lost the weight? Be honest.

I would never call gastric bypass surgery the easy way out. The pain after surgery is BAD, but gets better. The risks, even if uncommon, can be catastrophic. It is not easy. I think a lot of people before surgery may think this is easier than losing weight naturally, though. They are SOOOO WRONG.

Let me ask you something. If you had put in all the effort you did after surgery before you had the procedure, do you think you could have lost the weight? Be honest.
This is something that i have wondered about. I have never been a lazy person. I could do almost anything that a smaller person could do, sometimes even better. I tryed for years and years and i gave it my all. I could have and did lose, but not as much after she surgery.

This is something that i have wondered about. I have never been a lazy person. I could do almost anything that a smaller person could do, sometimes even better. I tryed for years and years and i gave it my all. I could have and did lose, but not as much after she surgery.

Fair enough.

I truly wish you the best of luck and good health, and I hope you reach your goals! :tu:

More importantly I hope you have FUN in the process, otherwise what's the point?

This is something that i have wondered about. I have never been a lazy person. I could do almost anything that a smaller person could do, sometimes even better. I tryed for years and years and i gave it my all. I could have and did lose, but not as much after she surgery.In that case it's a shame you never approached it the right way, since it's pysiologically impossible not to lose weight if you're a human being and doing it properly. With the correct approach, anybody can lose it. let's not forget, afterall, that the ONLY thing gastric bypass does is limit the amount of food being absorbed by the body, whether it's through inefficient digestion or softening hunger pangs, that's all it does. It does absolutely nothing else. It decreases calorie intake, something a person can consciously control and have the same benefits, though granted they will be painful, since being hungry isn't fun.

It obviously does enhance lives, as barber said. A lot of people are happy to have had it done. Losing weight and trimming up without it also enhances lives, and I'd argue it enhances them more. The goal should be to decrease the ratio of those who lose way via by pass to those who lose it via a correct lifestyle change.

All of us can be skin and bones; all of us could starve to death without enough calories. I don't know how society has managed to convince so much of itself that this plain fact is not true...so people say "I just can't lose weight no matter what." Try the prisoner of war diet and see if you're staying the same thing!

Everybody can't do it. That's like saying no one should suffer depression, no one should be addicted to alcohol or drugs, or no one should smoke cigarettes. I think it's a psychologic illness/addiction that simple willpower can't beat. For some.
To tell someone that they are fat simply because their will is weak is not only mean; it's wrong. I agree that they must bear most of the responsiblity for their obesity but not entirely.

Everybody can't do it. That's like saying no one should suffer depression, no one should be addicted to alcohol or drugs, or no one should smoke cigarettes. I think it's a psychologic illness/addiction that simple willpower can't beat. For some.


I think the point is that a person that cannot develop the self-control skills required is more often than not ultimately going to fail. Smokers who use the patch/gum to quit are more likely to relapse, heroin addicts that use methedone are more likely to use again, depressed individuals often cannot function without the medication.... the fact of the matter is that one the crutch is gone alot of people have nothing left to stand on. Either they want to make a life choice or they dont, its that simple.

And for you to say that "Everybody cant do it" is complete garbage, in my opinion. Everyone can, but not everyone wants to. If there are people that can quick smoking crack, then there are people that can stop going to the sizzler every night.

Being an adult is all about making choices and dealing with the consequences of those choices. While certain individuals may be addicted to food etc, anyone can get out of that rut. I would say the most detrimental thing is that society tells these people that there are other options besides hard work, such as liposuction or gastric bypass. The reason why these things are chosen is primarily because the people think it will be easier. This misconception has nothing to do with reality, rather it is what society has created for them with people like Al Roker. It is physically impossible for someone to have legitimate reason behing saying they "cant lose weight". No, they just dont want to bad enough.

Im not saying its really a bad thing, as Im never a fan of normativity. Instead I'll call it what it is: a crutch. The problem with a crutch is that after a while you forget what it is doing, and if you try to get rid of it, alot of the time you end up falling flat on your face.

Very well said, Atkinson...

As someone who has been at 310+ lbs less than a year ago, I can tell you right now that the main problem facing anyone that heavy is:

1) Lack of willpower
2) The Vicious Cycle

The vicious cycles occurs because people feel depressed about their appearance, have no motivation, so they eat more to comfort themselves. Because of this increased eating, they become more depressed, have less motivation, and eat more to comfort themselves even more, on and on.

I'm convinced that the ONLY way that a person can lose 100+ pounds is with a tremendous amount of motivation and complete focus. For the past 9 months, losing weight has been an absolute priority in my life. Not a minute goes by that I'm not thinking of some facet of my diet, or my workout, or how I look in the mirror, vits/supplements to take, etc...Everything else, even school and work, has taken a back seat to my diet. People who approach dieting and exercise casually and say "we'll see if it works" are bound to fail. These are the people who CAN'T lose weight...and it is their own mentality that prevents them from doing so, IMO.

If people don't have that initial spark to start up, be agressive and perservere, then they will go nowhere, regardless of if they have 10lbs to lose or 100lbs. For me, I had just turned 19 (last birthday in the teens!), was over 310 pounds, and was likely to spend the next 5 years (the supposed best years of one's life) miserable, fat, and without any social life. My time was ticking - either lose the weight fast, or possibly lose it when I'm in my 30's, with no shot of getting a decent-looking girl. And it was either lose it via hard work, or lose it via surgery. Having to explain scars from the surgery and resultant necessary abdominoplastys to some cute girl who I'd be trying to lay just didn't sound appealing. That was MY motivation - not to mention avoiding certain heart disease and a family curse of diabetes. It's been working so far.

To tell someone that they are fat simply because their will is weak is not only mean; it's wrong.

I believe that it's callous and impolite, but not wrong. The obese person is 100% responsible for being obese. Nobody else in the world bears a shred of responsibility for the factors that caused that person to become so unfit.

And that's a good thing. If the responsibility were even 1% on someone else then the obese person could put every ounce of effort they had into getting fit and still only reach 99% of their goals. Because it is all the obese person's responsibility, they have the power to change completely.

I have never been obese so I do not have a good perspective on how an obese person feels. Hardgeus has, and lost 100 lbs...and probably has a great deal of sympathy for people in that situation but no tolerance for excuses whatsoever (http://www.hardgeus.com/index.php?npageid=17).

My time was ticking - either lose the weight fast, or possibly lose it when I'm in my 30's, with not shot of getting a decent-looking girl.

:eek: While I'm very glad that motivated you, I understand where you're coming from, and I think you're on track to a fantastic life in your 20's with a good perspective: Life ain't over at 30! :lol:

Now get offa my lawn! *shakes fist*

M@

While I'm very glad that motivated you, I understand where you're coming from, and I think you're on track to a fantastic life in your 20's with a good perspective: Life ain't over at 30!

Now get offa my lawn! *shakes fist*

LOL...sorry. I didn't mean to offend any of the "old-timers" out there. Hehe.

Besides, if you can maintain sub-12% Body Fat and a decent head of hair long enough, I don't think age really matters. (Feel better now?)

I believe that it's callous and impolite, but not wrong. The obese person is 100% responsible for being obese. Nobody else in the world bears a shred of responsibility for the factors that caused that person to become so unfit.

And that's a good thing. If the responsibility were even 1% on someone else then the obese person could put every ounce of effort they had into getting fit and still only reach 99% of their goals. Because it is all the obese person's responsibility, they have the power to change completely.


M@ took the words right out of my mouth :)

An obese person is the way he/she is because of their choices/efforts(lack of). Unless they were held at gunpoint and forced to gorge themselves to the point of obesity on a daily basis. If that were the case, I retract the previous statement. Yes that is callous and cruel but it is the cold hard truth.

Basically they are 100% responsible for their state of physical health. That said they also have the power to undo the damage they allowed to go on in the first place by making better dietary choices.

Ive heard this and read this so many times its burned into my brain. "You are what you eat". Its that simple. Yes yes :) if you want to gain muscle you will have to weight train and adjust diet accordingly but that is the basic gist.

I hate the excuse..."Oh its genetics" "You are so lucky to have a good metabolism, I was born with a slow metabolism". "I dont have the will power"..and so on. Why? Because it gives that person an excuse to not make better choices.

Everyone and I mean everyone has the choice to change their body composition. :)

Look at John Stone and the slew of other folks who have literally transformed themselves. These are awesome examples of sheer will power and self belief that they could change their lives and bodies if they made the right choices(efforts).

Ive seen so many TV examples of individuals who opt for gastric bypass as a last resort, and in all cases that I did see they lived horrible dietary lives. Drinking Gallons of sugary soft drinks and eating ridiculous amounts of junk food on a daily basis. I mean what? How is that someone elses fault. If someone tells me they couldnt control themselves then most of us are mindless automatons, because we all react to addictive substances in almost the same ways. Yes there are those more likely to get addicted, but we all have the ability to form addictions. So what is the difference?

For me its educated choice. Which is where a site like JSF comes in. There is a slew of info on this website that puts to shame any gastric bypass surgery. Surgery is always a last resort. Good Doctors, the ones that really care will always tell you, prevention is better then the cure.

For those who really care about themselves, good luck to all of you and I hope you achieve whatever goals you have set for yourselves. :tu:

Fair enough.

I truly wish you the best of luck and good health, and I hope you reach your goals! :tu:

More importantly I hope you have FUN in the process, otherwise what's the point?
THANKS. AND ALWAYS

Hey I Give You Props.

I’m going to toss in my 2 cents,

I personally know 3 people who have had gastric bypass surgery: A woman I work with (in her early 30’s), a statistics teacher I had last semester (51 when surgery was performed) & my friend’s Mother (56 when the surgery was performed). I have spoken to all three of them at length about their lives, the surgery and the effect it has had on them.

All three of them were extremely overweight for most of their lives (100+ lbs over weight). And although all three of them had Dr. approval because their weight was causing or had potential to cause “health issues”, all three admitted that they were going though with the surgery for cosmetic reasons (a desire to “looking better” and improve their self-esteem.

All three had tried MANY fad diets over the years and had always failed and gone back to eating loads of junk. None of them had ever made a serious lifestyle change, they would yo-yo diet.

All three of them lost over 100lbs within the first 18months after the surgery. Yet, all three of them continued to have low self-esteem that manifested itself in other ways.

The thing that bothered me the most about the surgery was the fact that all three of them, post surgery, were put on a LIFE LONG diets that included: Eating many small meals per day (6+), always eating a lean protein first with each meal and taking multiple vitamin supplements. They were given a diet plan that they are suppose to follow for the rest of their lives (sounds like a lifestyle change) that would have caused them to lose weight if they followed it without the surgery???? In any case, all three of them are miserable on the eating plan. All three cheat often (eating only high processed carb meals, like candy bars). All three continuously skip taking their supplements and have health issues because of this.

All three of them are planning to have the skin removal surgery performed (in the case of the woman in her early 30’s she had it aprox 10 months ago), which is major surgery and (in the case of these three women) is strictly cosmetic. All of them have loose skin that would never go away, but not so much as to cause any health issues.

Lastly, all three of them LOOOOOVE the attention they get from having lost so much weight. All of them brag about how they “use to be 200+lbs” and how they had the surgery and how tough it was. Personally, I am not impressed. When I hear someone who lost a lot of weight through lifestyle changes, i.e. proper nutrition, resistance & cardio training, I am inspired and genuinely impressed.

[QUOTE=Atkinson]No kidding. I know alot of people that are moderately overweight and they "wish they were obese so they could get the surgery". Does it get much lazier than that?

That is just unbelieveable that people think that way!!

I believe that it's callous and impolite, but not wrong. The obese person is 100% responsible for being obese. Nobody else in the world bears a shred of responsibility for the factors that caused that person to become so unfit.
M@

Being 100% responsible for something and being unable to change without help are two completely different things.

Stating that it's simply someone's lack of willpower as the reason they are fat is ludicrous.

Stating that a fat person is 100% responsible, to the complete exclusion of any psychological trauma, eating disorder, or other subtle or more obvious pressures and external forces, in each and every case, IS WRONG!

We do not exist in a vacuum. There are reasons fat people(sorry) eat. Not all of them are a CONSCIOUS choice that they make.

I do not suggest surgery as the answer, if you read my previous posts.

The danger of saying that it is purely the fault and lack of will of the obese person is that you overlook other possible factors contributing to his or her obesity. I agree in the vast majority of people more willpower is all that is needed. But, just like an anorexic who will strave herself literally TO DEATH, there is a subgroup of morbidly obese that will eat themselves to death. And just saying suck it up, stop eating and HEY read John Stones website, ain't going to do shit!

Just because it's not necessarily a fully conscious choice doesn't make it any less their own fault and responsibility.

I would argue that no one NEEDS help to change. Help is just that: help. It aids in something that's already occurring. It makes it easier, but it doesn't make it possible.

What ever happened to Darwinism? It seems like every day people are finding new ways to help unhealthy attitudes and lifestyles to survive and multiply. We are becoming a society of progressively more disempowered individuals every day, and it's for that very reason that I enjoy the bodybuilding/fitness community, particularly our little corner of the Internet here.

This site is a collective of people who took it upon themselves to change their own lives. Yes, some of us had support and encouragement from our loved ones, but some of us didn't. Either way, our success was the result of not one thought, but a series of them. We decide every day to eat right, exercise, and live a healthy lifestyle. We are tested every time we get a craving, or feel a little more tired than usual when it's time to hit the gym. Those are the moments that separate success from failure. Those are the moments in which we choose our own destiny.

As such, the same reasons I allow myself to feel pride in my accomplishments, be they in regards to fitness, school, career, or whatever, are the same reasons I have no difficulty holding others accountable for their own actions and decisions. You don't like your life? Fine, get up off your ass and change it.

People are where they are because they chose to be there, whether they realize it or not. Unfortuneately, until you recognize that you are solely responsible for your own quality of life your ability to change it is extremely limited.

Ok, off my soapbox now.

Being 100% responsible for something and being unable to change without help are two completely different things.

Stating that a fat person is 100% responsible, to the complete exclusion of any psychological trauma, eating disorder, or other subtle or more obvious pressures and external forces, in each and every case, IS WRONG!

I agree.

The example of lesions to the medial hypothalamus directly causing "hyperphagia" (massive uncontrollable overeating) is pretty well reported, and understood to some reasonable extent.

The example of lesions to the medial hypothalamus directly causing "hyperphagia" (massive uncontrollable overeating) is pretty well reported, and understood to some reasonable extent.

Yeah, and golfers have gotten struck by lightning too...

To say that outside forces beyond a person's control force them to lead an unhealthy lifestyle is stating the obvious. WE ALL know what those forces are - school/work, family/relationship problems, depression from being antiscoial/fat, overstressed, etc. - but it is OUR responsibility, and nobody else's to take control over those forces, and overcome them. To say that some people are fat because there are external forces beyond their control is silly; there are external forces, but none beyond their control. What kinds of outside pressures do some hopeless people face, that the majority of people on this board didn't?

It all comes down to digging yourself out of a hole, no matter how deep it is. Everybody has the shovel - everybody has a metabolism. It's just a matter of wanting it badly enough. Or, in a worst case scenario, being scared into it by the risk of heart disease, death, diabetes, etc.

It all comes down to digging yourself out of a hole, no matter how deep it is. Everybody has the shovel - everybody has a metabolism. It's just a matter of wanting it badly enough. Or, in a worst case scenario, being scared into it by the risk of heart disease, death, diabetes, etc.

So the 700 pound guy bedridden, with heart failure, stasis ulcers, uncontrolled diabetes who can't clean himself and sits in his own feces just needs to want it enough, huh?

BS.

To say that that person is in control of their lives is silly. Even though we all may face similar pressures, you must agree that different people react differently to those pressures. Some get angry, some get depressed, some smoke cigarettes, some drink and some eat. You wouldn't tell a depressed people that may have comtemplated suicide that it's all your fault. You are 100% responsible and in control. You don't tell the alcoholic that either.

For those that have had problems with addiction and I believe for some overeating is an addiction, you may be familiar with the 12 step program for alcohol.

NUMBER 1 step is

We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable

Before you can even begin the process of beating an addiction, you have to admit that the addiction completely overpowered you. That saying I can handle it myself doesn't work.

Edit- Remember I'm talking about people that have tried to lose weight and failed. Over and over. I'm not refering to the 19yo that got obese than decided he needed a lifestyle change and successfully changed. I'm not talking about the forum leader that has been healthy most of his life, became obese for several reasons, then became healthy again. The people that present for gastric bypass surgery are the people that have tried and failed. I believe because of an addiction to food.

Being 100% responsible for something and being unable to change without help are two completely different things.

Stating that it's simply someone's lack of willpower as the reason they are fat is ludicrous.There are problem behind things but these problems manifest themselves into willpower-ambushing factors. I think to simply say that somebody wants to lose weight and yet continues to eat fat because they have a lack of will power is not inaccurate. It is simplistic, though. It succinctly summarizes why they are still eating garbage, but it doesn't get at WHY they lack the will power, which is what you're getting at. A high-confidence individual, like many of us in the realm of weight loss, could be dumped in the body of a 300 lb person, look in the mirror and immediately decide to change things and do it. The typical 300 lb person, though, has the various problems that go along with being 300 lbs, such as decreased self-esteem and self confidence. They are so used to being in their big body that they can't imagine not being in it and wonder if it's even possible. Things like that chip away at the resolve another person may have.

A non-surgical approach with such a person has to combine some level of pointing out the fact that, yes, simply they are too lazy and need to buck up, but _at the same time_ make it patently clear that they can lose the weight. It can be done and is not a herculean or unattainable goal. Then somebody is disgusted with themselves and tries to lose weight (the first part) but lacks the proper knowledge of how to do it or the belief that it can really be done (the second), they'll probably fail.

--

We can't compare it to depression, though. If I have a broken leg, I can't will it to be fixed. True clinical depression, and not depression simply situational depression, if it's motivated by chemical imbalances is a similar physical problem and cannot be willed away. If you put a gun to my head and i'm clinically depressed and you say that if I don't "get happy", I'll be shot, I cannot get happy; it's not possible to will happiness. However, if I'm about to eat a bag of chips and you put a gun to my head, I'll probably put the chips down. Losing weight is a series of tiny steps, each of which can be totally under control of the actor. Saying no to a chocolate bars is tons easier than suddenly becoming happy.

Being 100% responsible for something and being unable to change without help are two completely different things.

Stating that it's simply someone's lack of willpower as the reason they are fat is ludicrous.There are problem behind things but these problems manifest themselves into willpower-ambushing factors. I think to simply say that somebody wants to lose weight and yet continues to eat fat because they have a lack of will power is not inaccurate. It is simplistic, though. It succinctly summarizes why they are still eating garbage, but it doesn't get at WHY they lack the will power, which is what you're getting at. A high-confidence individual, like many of us in the realm of weight loss, could be dumped in the body of a 300 lb person, look in the mirror and immediately decide to change things and do it. The typical 300 lb person, though, has the various problems that go along with being 300 lbs, such as decreased self-esteem and self confidence. They are so used to being in their big body that they can't imagine not being in it and wonder if it's even possible. Things like that chip away at the resolve another person may have.

A non-surgical approach with such a person has to combine some level of pointing out the fact that, yes, simply they are too lazy and need to buck up, but _at the same time_ make it patently clear that they can lose the weight. It can be done and is not a herculean or unattainable goal. Then somebody is disgusted with themselves and tries to lose weight (the first part) but lacks the proper knowledge of how to do it or the belief that it can really be done (the second), they'll probably fail.

Saying no to a chocolate bars is tons easier than suddenly becoming happy.

Depends on what your addiction is. I have no problem becoming happy. I think about my health, my job, my fiance, my new running shoes, etc. I have a harder time saying no to French Silk Fridays (inside joke).

Otherwise I agree with most of the rest of your post.

"""Being 100% responsible for something and being unable to change without help are two completely different things.

Stating that it's simply someone's lack of willpower as the reason they are fat is ludicrous.

Stating that a fat person is 100% responsible, to the complete exclusion of any psychological trauma, eating disorder, or other subtle or more obvious pressures and external forces, in each and every case, IS WRONG!

We do not exist in a vacuum. There are reasons fat people(sorry) eat. Not all of them are a CONSCIOUS choice that they make.

I do not suggest surgery as the answer, if you read my previous posts.

The danger of saying that it is purely the fault and lack of will of the obese person is that you overlook other possible factors contributing to his or her obesity. I agree in the vast majority of people more willpower is all that is needed. But, just like an anorexic who will strave herself literally TO DEATH, there is a subgroup of morbidly obese that will eat themselves to death. And just saying suck it up, stop eating and HEY read John Stones website, ain't going to do shit!"""


I agree with you. Studies have shown that there are "medical" and "physiologic" reasons why some tend to get morbidly obese...not everyone will become 600+ lbs and by eating too much (or eating as much). Further, there are social issues here...take a person who used to be a drug addict and he's trying to go clean but everywhere he turns, there's people selling drugs, selling drugs at major discounts or volumes, advertising it reallllllly well, etc...same thing for morbidly obese individual and fast food/unhealthy food. Moreover, some tend to eat when they are stressed/overworked/etc., while others do exactly the opposite. It's too simplified and generalized to say that being morbidly obese (NOT just fat) is purely that individual's fault and that it's a result of just eating too much and being too lazy.

Interesting comment on gastric bypass surgery...studies are coming out (and i'm sure even more now that there's massive registries of these patients with longer follow-ups as well as numerous number of prospective studies being done) that besides the loss of weight and amelioration/resolution of medical problems, interesting beneficial "side effects" that cannot be explained by calorie restriction/diet,lifestyle change/malabsorption.

I just watched a show on Discovery Health all about Gastric Bypass surgery, and its increased use with teenagers.

Honestly, for those of us who have lost 80+ pounds (112 myself), how good does it feel to be able to accomplish something with your own willpower and hard work, and not the knife of a surgeon? I know that some people have no other choice, but only 9 months ago I was 310+ pounds, and 49% BF...and was getting talked into gastric bypass from my family. Now at 199, 22.5%, I'm the one laughing. It's a great feeling.

I know it sounds cruel and twisted, but when I hear about people who have had that surgery, and are having all the complications, scars, eating and nutrition problems, I get an incredible boost of motivation to work out. It's amazing what willpower can do.

I know this thread probably has no real merit, but I felt like thinking out loud, and possibly providing some motivation to everyone else...

Congrats Chris, -112 is a very impressive achievement. And I'm sure you will continue because now, you know how to do it. You will reach yourultimate goals, eventually.

On gastric bypass surgery...

I do not believe that anyone NEEDS it, yes, even the 700lbs people. What they need is the belief, and to know HOW to get rid of the fat.

I went up to 201lbs at 5'8 with very little muscle, and I honesly did not know how to go about it. Sometimes I'd starve myself... you know the deal. Without the knowledge, it doesn't work.

I was lucky to stumble upon Tom Venuto's webpage and to take a chance. And it worked wonders for me, even though I thought I was a genetic freak in a bad sense! Honestly, "if it worked for me it can work for anyone". Sounds cliche but it's true. (I've been down to 148lbs, bulking a bit now). The 700lbs man just needs more time, and he will start with nutrition only since he cannot do cardio, for sure... he might do a bit of resistance training early on

But the gastric bypass surgery, I saw a program about it in the UK, called "Dying to be thin", with a lot of interviews of patients and relatives.

And let me tell you, I've seen lives shattered. I've seen a woman crying that she wished she'd relained obese. Oh she was thin all right, nearly anorexic in fact. But she was housebound. When you "dump" 20 times a day, with no warning, you can't go out much. She also lost all her hair and teeth. And she was one of the lucky ones. For the unlucky ones, they interviewed the parents or relatives, because the unlucky ones die, simple as that. Some get "side effects" like not being able to absorb protein. One woman was feeding herself exclusively on milk, it's all she could have. And there was worse stuff than that, it was so horrible to watch. Especially for me, knowing what I'd done, knowing that there was no need for this pain.

And of course, some didn't even lose weight because they still had the same shitty relation to food.

I know it works for some, and maybe this program focused ont he minority, but the risk isn't worth taking. Honestly, i am convinced that even the morbidly obese can do it the right way. It's just having the knowledge, and the confidence. But you cannot be confident without the knowledge first!

And sadly, doctors and nutritionists do not know the whole picture. Any bodybuilder knows more about this stuff than doctors and nutritionists. Because they understand all the aspects including proper training.

If I knew someone considering bypass surgery, I'd beg them not to, for their own sake. Especially if he/she was my relative.

Vincent.

I know this thread has been killed, but one last thought:

I do not believe that anyone NEEDS it, yes, even the 700lbs people. What they need is the belief, and to know HOW to get rid of the fat.

Completely agree. I remember watching a show a while back featuring Richard Simmons. He claimed that he got a 650 pound woman to lose 400 pounds, and he started her out with simply clapping her hands as a form of cardio. Imagine that? I firmly believe that it's never too late to start being healthy.


And sadly, doctors and nutritionists do not know the whole picture. Any bodybuilder knows more about this stuff than doctors and nutritionists. Because they understand all the aspects including proper training.

Also completely agree. 3 weeks ago, my doctor tried to tell me that I was morbidly obese because my "BMI is very high". This guy, a reputable family physician, is using BMI as a measure of health! Granted, I stand to lose some weight, but my BF % is 22%, most certainly not "morbidly obese". I think that cosmetic surgeons are the worst though, when it comes to capitalizing on people's vanity, insecurities, and altogether laziness when it comes to their bodies. They claim that "it is simply loose skin that will never snap back", yet are using tools for liposuction, and fail to mention that it is not only skin, but also fat that can be lost, and skin that can be tightened/toned. Cosmetic surgeons can be downright deceitful. Like I mentioned earlier, I have a HUGE problem with large, pendulous, fatty breasts. I've had them since I was a kid, and was always pressured into surgery by my family to have them sucked out. 3 separate cosmetic surgeons told me that it was glandular breast tissue that could never be lost with diet/exercise. They were giving me a bunch of BS, because since I've lost 112lbs., they've gone down DRAMATICALLY. Still big and pendulous, but I'm still 22% BF.

And the before/after photos on their webpages are a joke. Do a Google search to see what I mean. "You no longer have a fat stomach, or fat tits, but you have these lovely thick, dark scars that you will have to explain to every person you meet for the rest of your life. At least you didn't have to go to the gym to lose your fat! Wasn't that worth it?" They're such a joke, it makes me sick.

This is over a year old, but I wanted to do some research on people's attitude towards surgery.

Before I begin my rant I might as well state- I had lap band surgery.

I joined here after reading about John from an article in fark many moons ago. I tried every diet I could- you know the story. Lose weight, gain twice as much back. I was lazy and I place the blame on the weight gain on myself.

I had the lap band surgery in May of 2006. I am now 173 (from 311) and am very happy with myself now. I was extremely depressed at the time. I now work out 6 days a week and promote a healthy lifestyle to my family and friends.

(RANT time) The one thing I do not do is belittle those who are big. Reading this thread I see (or perceive) a lot of elitist attitude. I say be proud of where you are now, but to think of yourself as better or a bigger person for being in such good shape and not a "fat slob" is incredibly sorry of you.

As others have pointed out in this thread, you obviously wanted to find a forum where you could get information for losing weight or getting in shape. You might not have been morbid obese or you might have. Either way, if you are in shape now or are getting there, you are no better than "those fat people".

Perhaps I am reading a little too much into most of these posts, but I must say I am truly sad today to say I belong to this forum if this is the consensus of the current members here.

I hate the excuse..."Oh its genetics" "You are so lucky to have a good metabolism, I was born with a slow metabolism". "I dont have the will power"..and so on. Why? Because it gives that person an excuse to not make better choices.


Some people are born with a naturally high metabolism.

I have an uncle who has basically ate a LOT his whole life. Not necessarily junk food, but at dinner time, he would eat twice the amount of meat as I would and not gain weight.

In the mean-time, eating the same stuff he did, I WOULD gain weight.

We even sat down and counted calories with him for six months, went to the docter and figured out his BMR and how many calories he burns each day, and he would be eating up to 1,500 MORE each day than his body would burn.

But to this day he is 180-190 lbs....20% BF.

Pretty sad reading through this thread.

Its been scientifically proven that some people suffer 'mental' problems which leads to becoming obese.

To a point they have control over their lives, yet how much control does a depressed person have? Same thing applies to certain people with an obesity problem.

Of course for people who eat fast food 3 times a day, and dwell on junk food the rest of the time, this wouldn't apply, but there are numerous cases of people who mentally can't control their eating habits, thus they gain weight.

Sounds to me like Chris seems jealous that some people went through an 'easier' way to lose weight. To an extent, he is right, because like other posters have mentioned, some people WILL do it for strictly cosmetic reasons. But like others have said, there are patients out there who suffer physiological problems in regards to eating, and they NEED the surgery.

Why is that so bad? I know a lot of people who have had the surgery done....and today they work out 6 days a week and lead a very healthy lifestyle. Is that bad?

This is over a year old, but I wanted to do some research on people's attitude towards surgery.

Before I begin my rant I might as well state- I had lap band surgery.

I joined here after reading about John from an article in fark many moons ago. I tried every diet I could- you know the story. Lose weight, gain twice as much back. I was lazy and I place the blame on the weight gain on myself.

I had the lap band surgery in May of 2006. I am now 173 (from 311) and am very happy with myself now. I was extremely depressed at the time. I now work out 6 days a week and promote a healthy lifestyle to my family and friends.

(RANT time) The one thing I do not do is belittle those who are big. Reading this thread I see (or perceive) a lot of elitist attitude. I say be proud of where you are now, but to think of yourself as better or a bigger person for being in such good shape and not a "fat slob" is incredibly sorry of you.

As others have pointed out in this thread, you obviously wanted to find a forum where you could get information for losing weight or getting in shape. You might not have been morbid obese or you might have. Either way, if you are in shape now or are getting there, you are no better than "those fat people".

Perhaps I am reading a little too much into most of these posts, but I must say I am truly sad today to say I belong to this forum if this is the consensus of the current members here.

I guess I never get this as an elitist attitude, more of a been there done that and guess what? We could lose weight.

To be honest, I just don't take a view those that have gotten the surgeries. But what I've noticed many doing post surgery is what really gets my hide. Like a couple other posters, I've known several who have done the bypass or the lap band and while the initial weightloss is impressive.. I don't see the commitment to changing their lifestyle and it makes me all the more content with the road I've chosen. But if it takes the surgery to finally make the changes needed to lead a healthier lifestyle.. then so be it

Pretty sad reading through this thread.

Its been scientifically proven that some people suffer 'mental' problems which leads to becoming obese.

To a point they have control over their lives, yet how much control does a depressed person have? Same thing applies to certain people with an obesity problem.

Of course for people who eat fast food 3 times a day, and dwell on junk food the rest of the time, this wouldn't apply, but there are numerous cases of people who mentally can't control their eating habits, thus they gain weight.

A depressed person has a lot more control then anyone wants you to know. I've been a manic depressive since I was a teenager, but thankfully I met a pshycitrist who viewed medications as a very last resort. For over 20 years i've managed my depression through diet, exercise and mental exercises. It's a heck of a lot more work, but I don't have to deal with the dreaded side effects that comes with almost all the meds.

True genetic mental and physical ailments (I'm talking about the ones we don't create ourselves through lack of diet and exercise) that truely inhibits one's ability to lose weight only effect less then 10% of the population. About another 10-15% will have issues that will make losing weight more difficult, but not impossible. But the other 30-40% of americans with weight issues and other mental issues would actually benefit by simply going on a resonable diet and exercise regime.

Interesting that this thread has been reborn. I have very mixed feelings about this, as someone who has seen his weight rise to the level where he's on the low end of being a candidate for bariatric surgery, and having a sister-in-law who had the surgery herself.

I think the biggest crime of this surgery is that there is no way to know if the person is going to truly change, or if they're going to undergo a potentially risky surgery that has ongoing side effects only go revert back to unhealthy ways.

My SIL had the surgery because she needed to lose 100 pounds before the doctors would risk a double knee replacement that she desperately needed. She lost about 130 pounds and got down to 175 (she's 5'2") and had the surgery. Since then, she's regained about 50 pounds by basically pushing herself to eat as much as she could without vomiting until she increased the amount she could eat to almost normal portions.

She actually put in a concerted, planned effort to increase the amount she could eat. Her mental and emotional issues about food drove her to do what she needed to do to get that back.

In many ways, we live in an enablement society. We enable people to live in ways that are unhealthy in fundamental ways. All the time my sister-in-law was over 300 pounds, she never had a doctor tell her to lose weight, except for when she needed a double knee replacement. Even then, the doctor told her that her weight had nothing to do with her knee problems. The surgeon who did her bariatric surgery told her that everyone has a genetic set point for weight, and without drastic action like removing our ability to eat large portions, we will never be far from that set point. He actually told her that she was genetically designed to be 300 lbs and there was nothing short of surgery she could do about it.

Her entire life, she was never encouraged to take responsibility for her actions regarding diet and exercise. In fact, she was encouraged not to.

We bemoan the fact that teenagers are getting gastric bypass and think we're beating the obesity epidemic by banning soda machines in schools. Yet, at the same time, schools are eradicating recess to the point that Cartoon Network is leading a "save recess" campaign. Here in Hillsborough county Florida, there is a mandated minimum of physical activity for kids each week, but some schools are meeting that requirement by counting the minutes used to change classes as minutes of activity, and counting minutes spent in music class because the kids are standing on risers.

Yes, some people have true genetic and physical ailments (like Prader-willi) that prevent them from losing weight, but for many, that's simply not the case.

I agree that there are 'many' people out there who simply eat wrong, and think that bypass surgery is going to cure them.

I've talked to a lot of overweight people who said they've tried every single 'fad' diet out there, and nothing worked. Well no kidding, because those diets talk about 12 weeks to lose 30 lbs, etc, etc, and not about the lifestyle change that actually goes along with being in shape.

I graduated from high-school two years ago, and now at Christmas I got to see a lot of the kids in school again as I went in to say hi to all my teachers. Its absolutely disgusting how many kids I once knew to be slim, now have picked up weight to the point where they're almost obese. In fact many of them are.

I talked to some of my teachers about that, given my slight transformation so far, and I told them the one thing keeping me from loosing weight during high school, or eating right, or getting enough exercise, was the fact that 'none' of the teachers taught us about it. In fact, Gym class was so restricted that we'd do 10 min of warmup, 50 min of drills and 5 min of actually playing the sport.

Which was ridiculous. Common sense tells you that kids have more fun actually playing the game, rather than sitting on the gym floor learning a bunch of specialty drills that nobody ever used.

But apparently it isn't politically correct to pressure kids to be more active; like the poster above me said, recess in elementary school has been restricted to almost nothing. Couple that with the new 'video game' era, and your obese generation of kids is born. And that brings along the HUGE popularity in bypass surgery.

It was actually sickening at lunch, sitting in the cafeteria watching already overweight kids slam down 3 more burgers, along with a huge tray of poutine. Sick.

And nobody is teaching these kids that such a thing is wrong. I'm sure everyone here can attest to the 'knowledge' about fitness, 'knowledge' about eating right, 'knowledge' about your BMR and how many calories you gotta eat in order to lose the treasured 1 lb per week. We ALL had to learn about that. And once we figured it all out, MANY of us went down the successful path of losing weight, and becoming better individuals all around. Look at John, look at his house, his car. Surely you can't attest all that to simple luck and playing his cards right at the right time. The knowledge he gained at one point teaching him about a healthy lifestyle, along with the determination to succeed brought him his success. It had nothing to do with the quick and easy fix, such as bypass surgery for obese teenagers who are too lazy to get off their ass and lose weight, or the fad diets who in essence preach lies to the general public.

You simply cannot continue eating the same food that made you obese in the first place. And part of the failure with bypass surgery is people believing that they can.

I firmly believe if kids were taught about living a healthy lifestyle during school, and pushed to actually accomplish it, North America as a whole would be better off.

But until then, you'll have idiots thinking bypass surgery is the 'quick fix' to loosing weight.

And than does not include that 10% of the population who actually struggle with a weight problem, and NEED bypass surgery.

I agree that there are 'many' people out there who simply eat wrong, and think that bypass surgery is going to cure them.


You simply cannot continue eating the same food that made you obese in the first place. And part of the failure with bypass surgery is people believing that they can.

I firmly believe if kids were taught about living a healthy lifestyle during school, and pushed to actually accomplish it, North America as a whole would be better off.

But until then, you'll have idiots thinking bypass surgery is the 'quick fix' to loosing weight.

And than does not include that 10% of the population who actually struggle with a weight problem, and NEED bypass surgery.


These statements are very true. I was not trying to defend the people that do not change their eating habits, so if it seemed that way, I apologize. I was more upset over the bashing of people like myself who used the surgery as a kick in the ass to get me to change everything about myself.

Did I cheat by getting the surgery? Yes, I did. Am I glad I had the surgery? Yes, very much so. Have I changed my eating habits? A total 360 degree turnaround (I know it is 180 degree. For those that have heard the Jason Kidd (or was it Shaq?)quote, this is meant to be funny :lol:)

Thanks for hearing me out, guys.

My cousin and her mom both had the surgery. Did they lose weight? Yes. Did they keep the weight off? Nope. The reason they were overweight in the first place was poor eating habits and lack of exercise (at least IMO). A risky surgery that most people do not need. Yeah, there are a few that do, but they are the minority.

These statements are very true. I was not trying to defend the people that do not change their eating habits, so if it seemed that way, I apologize. I was more upset over the bashing of people like myself who used the surgery as a kick in the ass to get me to change everything about myself.

Did I cheat by getting the surgery? Yes, I did. Am I glad I had the surgery? Yes, very much so. Have I changed my eating habits? A total 360 degree turnaround (I know it is 180 degree. For those that have heard the Jason Kidd (or was it Shaq?)quote, this is meant to be funny :lol:)

Thanks for hearing me out, guys.

Hey, if it works, awesome.

I have absolutely no problem with people who use the surgery to change their lifestyle.

In fact I would be thrilled if more obese and overweight people had bypass surgery done, and it resulted in an overall decrease in heart attack patients throughout the country.

Hey, if it works, awesome.

I have absolutely no problem with people who use the surgery to change their lifestyle.

In fact I would be thrilled if more obese and overweight people had bypass surgery done, and it resulted in an overall decrease in heart attack patients throughout the country.

Sorry, not trying to mean or rude, but thats a pretty silly statement to make. Are you aware of the risks involved in this kind of surgery? There are plenty of ways to reduce heart attacks without getting bypass surgery. Not to mention, being obese does not mean you will drop dead of a heart attack...

Sorry, not trying to mean or rude, but thats a pretty silly statement to make. Are you aware of the risks involved in this kind of surgery? There are plenty of ways to reduce heart attacks without getting bypass surgery. Not to mention, being obese does not mean you will drop dead of a heart attack...

Yet obesity creates a greater risk to actually have heart problems.

There are plenty of ways yes, but in the end being healthy, eating healthy and living a healthy lifestyle is the only long-term solution.

Aside from a few posters, a lot of people here lack knowledge in social epidemiology.

Yet obesity creates a greater risk to actually have heart problems.

There are plenty of ways yes, but in the end being healthy, eating healthy and living a healthy lifestyle is the only long-term solution.


i totally agree. i for one have always been skinny. BUT i was still eating crap that made me unhealthy. now on the other hand i excercise 4x a week do cardio 10-15 mins (i'm bulking right now) i was doing cardio 3-4x a week 15-20 min. HIIT cardio btw. anyway,


and now i only eat healthy (tuna,wheat bread, apples ect) and pretty soon i'm gonna stop drinkin milk (i read somwhere it's not good for you) but still my sisters eat unhealthy (all overweight by a good 10-20+ pounds) so is my uncle. they see me being healthy and i TELL them how to be healthy.


but do they listen? no, and (my sisters) bitch about how they wanna lose weight but they do NOTHING about it:mad: so yes i agree that 90% of obese ppl do not need the surgery.....they just need to eat right and exercise. sorry for the long post:)

shrug

I just read through this entire thread with some dismay. I have a work colleague who is obese. Her husband died when she was in her early thirties and she has since raised two children on her own, both of whom are now married, happy and successful. She did this while working 60 hours a week. I have never heard her complain. If anyone on this site thinks it takes more fortitude to diet and lift weights than to accomplish what she did in her life, you don't know much about life. You should all tone down the self-righteousness.

Also, for the guy who is ranting about doctors. The surgeon who posted in this thread did four years of pre-med, four years of medical school, two years of internship and probably at least four years of surgical residency before he was able to practice and make all that money you think he doesn't deserve. What were you doing between the ages of 19 and 33 while he was training for 70-80 hours a week to become a surgeon? Also, if you think lifting weights takes fortitude, try standing over a person for several hours performing surgery with his/her life in your hands. (And, I am not a doctor).

and pretty soon i'm gonna stop drinkin milk (i read somwhere it's not good for you) :)

I hate to derail this thread, but...

Milk IS good for you.

So drink up.

I wish to extend my apoplogies if I am going a bit off-topic here. But I have a different opinion regarding the obesity epidemic.

I think it's very easy to point fingers and explain how obese people have a "choice". I believe it's more complex than that. Sure, over eating, lack of physical activity are easy targets to overexpose and lay the blame on. These, however, are the simple explanations (and to be fair, for some people, the actual answer to their problem)

The other, less obvious causes are far more diverse, yet extremely identifiable. I.E. drug therapies, clinical depression (untreated), abnormal levels of stress, very poor sleep habits, food intolerances, hormonal fluctuations and imbalances. Some of the newer theories being studied are adenoviral infections, plus a stomach disorder relating to a medical condition which leads to enhanced caloric absorption in the obese. (a reversal in the bacteroidities)

Genetics are also in the equation. Certain populations prefer high calorie fat and protein, as opposed to higher carbohydrates.

It would be very easy for me, a physique competitor, to rant on the obese as a simple fact of being lazy and not taking the initiative to go to the gym, eat right, and be active. And sometimes I am guilty of voicing my opinion as such (sometimes with justification :nod: ) But more often than not, I am wrong with my critique, and fail to consider what may not be as obvious.

IMHO :)

Its been scientifically proven that some people suffer 'mental' problems which leads to becoming obese.

What has really been scientifically proven is that genetics play the biggest role in your body composition, and that "will power" has little or nothing to do with it.

It's tough to get this across, because so many people want to believe in the "will power" theory - whether it makes them feel good or bad about themselves or others.

But the science is pretty much that "will power" is way down the list of things that explain obesity or which can be helpful in dealing with it.

It's like thinking that all fat people have no will power. Can we all just think about that for a few minutes?

As to health, it actually looks like most of the health benefits of caloric restriction and leanness can also occur with obesity as long as one signalling pathway in the brain is turned off. Since it's an insulin signalling pathway, it suggests that you can indeed be "fit and fat". Just don't delude yourself about the fit part, and keep in mind that this work hasn't been experimentally proven in humans yet, (although it is the sort of thing that tends to hold across many species, let alone mammals).

Mental problems huh? So does that mean that Im going to be obese because of my depression? Give me a break...

Mental problems huh? So does that mean that Im going to be obese because of my depression? Give me a break...

No. For one, there are more to mental problems than "depression." "Binge eating" can be considered a mental problem.

Secondly, saying that certain mental problems may sometimes be related to obesity and have an effect on one's physical composition does not necessarily mean they always share a causal relationship.

No. For one, there are more to mental problems than "depression." "Binge eating" can be considered a mental problem.

Secondly, saying that certain mental problems may sometimes be related to obesity and have an effect on one's physical composition does not necessarily mean they always share a causal relationship.

That depends on how one wishes to look at it. I see binge eating as an emotional problem.... I think a better choice of words should have been used by a previous poster when associating obesity to certain conditions. Suggesting mental conditions puts the obesity problem into a spectrum that most obese individuals do not need to be classified under. Its hard enough dealing with weight issues, without the pseudo science of insinuating it can be tied to a mental condition.

I just read through this entire thread with some dismay. I have a work colleague who is obese. Her husband died when she was in her early thirties and she has since raised two children on her own, both of whom are now married, happy and successful. She did this while working 60 hours a week. I have never heard her complain. If anyone on this site thinks it takes more fortitude to diet and lift weights than to accomplish what she did in her life, you don't know much about life. You should all tone down the self-righteousness.

Also, for the guy who is ranting about doctors. The surgeon who posted in this thread did four years of pre-med, four years of medical school, two years of internship and probably at least four years of surgical residency before he was able to practice and make all that money you think he doesn't deserve. What were you doing between the ages of 19 and 33 while he was training for 70-80 hours a week to become a surgeon? Also, if you think lifting weights takes fortitude, try standing over a person for several hours performing surgery with his/her life in your hands. (And, I am not a doctor).

Thank you.

As a correction, I've done 4 years of college, 5 years of med school, 7 years of surgery residency, 1 year of fellowship, 1 year of grad school, and 2 more years of fellowship. I'm 37 now and still in training.
And, i've never made a cent of money from doing gastric bypass surgery, only more experience and training. And, I thank those patients for allowiing me to operate on them and trusting me.


Also, I totally agree with Mastover. Extremely wise and intelligent point of view.

Yea, I know what you mean, I am 54 years old and let my weight creep up over the years to 300 lb. My wife and I started on the South Beach Diet last May and by November of last year I had lost 100 lbs and she trimmed down by 50 lb. I've since went down to my present weight of 187 and working at keeping my weight at that with cardio and weight training. It was hard work but I am proud of what I accomplished. I have a guy on the rig I am on right now that is going to get the bypass. He is no teenager but he is only 38. He asked me how I did and when I told him lifestyle change and exercise he screwed his face up at that. He wants the quick fix. If I can do it - anybody can

David:tu: