Cutting on 2400 calories a day, healthy, clean foods all last week.

I am now up to 251 lbs from 246 last weekend. I had dropped from 250 to 246 the previous week, after not seeing the scale move at all for nearly three months.

I don't have my food logs at home, but I was careful to write down everything I ate for my 6 meals a day. I can post tomorrow if anyone doesn't believe me.

I've been lifting weights hard all week, but haven't done cardio.

I expect I'll be stronger on my lifts this coming week, as I have been for the past three months...of course, my goal is fat loss, not necessarily muscle gain or strength.

I'm thinking of blowing off conventional wisdom and experimenting this week with 1500 calories and see what happens. Maybe I'm just a freak of nature and break the laws of thermodynamics. :)

PS

My waist and gut measurements are exactly the same as they have been.

That seems like an awful big jump. :confused:

Why not try 2150 for a week or two?

1) Could just be water.
2) fluctuating up/down on occasion is normal.
3) 1500 is way too low. If you must, knock off 200 calories. But I'd only do that if a) you stay at this level another couple of weeks or b) gain.

I'd cut calories by only 200 to start. 2200 seems pretty reasonable to me.

Maybe add in some cardio, even if you just go for an hour walk. I like to do that now at night because I recently discovered how beautiful certain parts of the town I live in are. I just keep the pace up pretty high and walk away from home for an hour, and then go back (taking a different route of course)

How many calories were you eating to cut from 250 to 246?

How many calories did you normally eat to maintain your weight before you started cutting?

Are you counting ALL your calories, from fruits, oils, protein powders and other supplements, etc. Some people don't realize they need to count them. Are you sure the calorie information from the packaging or the website is correct? Are you sure the measurement is correct? There was a member here who had been estimating half as many calories from oats as she should have been because she misunderstood the serving size on the packaging.

You could be a freak of nature, but cutting your calories that low might also wreak havok with your metabolism and make it harder to cut below a certain weight.

Are you sure there aren't hidden calories like coffee with cream and sugar? 4 tablespoons of salad dressing rather than one? Beer? That type thing. Eat meat? do you know what 3-4 ozs looks like? How are bowel movements, take three tablespoons of milk of magnesia and see how many pounds you lose.

There are many reasons for weight flux, first look to calorie count. Try 1500 calories for a couple of weeks, but do it with the use of pre- prepared foods from the frozen food side of grocery. That way you are controlled in amount in a frozen dinner. Eat a 300-350 calorie meal with clean ingredients. Add 1 slice of WW bread, and 1 cup of milk. for two meals and 3 eggs and WW bread toast, 1 cup of milk. snacks 1 med. apple or 1 cup light non-fat yogurt. you get the idea take as much as you can out of your hands and cooks and put it in the hands of a plant that is measuring thing for you and the government. Drink 1-1.5 gallons of water a day.

There hasn't been any uncounted calories, other than Saturday, which was is my "relaxed" day, although I don't go crazy or anything.

I like the idea of only eating the pre-packaged stuff so that I can see exactly the amounts I'm eating. I think I'll try that this week.

Also, I'm going to add some morning cardio, even though I hate morning anything. :)

First, congrats on taking such a disciplined approach to your diet. That will pay dividends as time goes by.

Now then. Regarding those fluctuations in weight - it's not a large fluctuation. My scale weight has been known to go up or down by 3 lb overnight. It's not until you look at the overall trend over the weeks that you can form a picture of what is really happening, because there are temporary things that cause a variation for a day or two, and other temporary things (that could happen at the same time) that last for more days - and, much more slowly, there are the longterm things, the things that you are controlling. So you have to see what the pattern is as the weeks go by.

If, after a few weeks, you are consistently gaining weight on 2400 calories, and were intending to cut, then what does it mean? Nothing disastrous. It just means that at the moment 2400 calories is above your maintenance level. In that situation, the best thing is to reduce your calories by a MODERATE amount - say down to 2300, and then watch the trends over the next weeks. It MIGHT take time for the new pattern to set in (sometimes unpredictable things happen for a short while as the body adjusts). If after a couple more weeks you are still not losing weight, make a further MODERATE adjustment. Then, when you are losing weight at the intended rate, watch the trend over the weeks, and make occasional moderate adjustments if the long term trend requires it.

If, after a few weeks, you are consistently gaining weight on 2400 calories, and were intending to cut, then what does it mean? Nothing disastrous. It just means that at the moment 2400 calories is above your maintenance level. In that situation, the best thing is to reduce your calories by a MODERATE amount - say down to 2300, and then watch the trends over the next weeks. It MIGHT take time for the new pattern to set in (sometimes unpredictable things happen for a short while as the body adjusts). If after a couple more weeks you are still not losing weight, make a further MODERATE adjustment. Then, when you are losing weight at the intended rate, watch the trend over the weeks, and make occasional moderate adjustments if the long term trend requires it.
I think he has been at same weight for nearly two months while on a cut. While he has begun to increase weights, I thought it was only about a week or so ago he started leg work.

I would cut out cheat days, make sure I had a good effective weight program and start a 55c/25f/20P diet at 1800 calories for two weeks, 1700 for 2 weeks, 1600 for two weeks. If that is successful start over again at 1800. cycle thru three 6 week cycles that should get him near 200 lbs. I would imagine he would need some more cuts but he should try to then maintain that weight. Stay active, walk dog/wife/girlfriend/ himself 15 min after supper each night for 20-30 min. Take stairs, park car away from store, go shopping in home depot- thinking of projects.

Weight training: recommend full body, MWF. As heavy a weight as he can use. For 1-2 sets for body part, no more than 12 sets a workout. 8-12 reps a set done in a slow controlled fashion. :tucool:

Do you really think I can get near 200 lbs in 18 weeks? I hope that is possible. Nothing seems possible at the moment.

Just curious, why do you recommend 1800 calories?

Do you really think I can get near 200 lbs in 18 weeks?

To go from 246 to 200 in 18 weeks you'd have to lose just over 2.5 lbs of fat per week. That's about 1% of your bodyweight right now so it's not beyond the scope of reason. You'd have to really push the envelope of safe fat loss, though.

I think you'd be better served cutting maybe 100-200 calories and saving the experimentation for cardio. Try seeing what 40 minutes of LISS every morning does for your deficit and measurements. I don't know why you're not losing scale weight or seeing reduction in your waist.

A 5lb bounce in your scale weight isn't bizzare, but from the sound of things you should've made much more overall progress than you have.

My past fourteen weeks of daily weigh-ins:

http://www.foolserrand.com/JSF/WeightVsTimeChart.gif

M@

Do you really think I can get near 200 lbs in 18 weeks? I hope that is possible. Nothing seems possible at the moment.

Just curious, why do you recommend 1800 calories?

Because you are 250 now and need more calories than the 1600 I might have started you at.

It would depend on adherance to diet and devotion to exercise. While it would be a short time, you would have to make it a lifetime time change of habit. Not a 18 week thing and back to old times.

How is your basic health? When was last checkup?

I'm physically healthy other than having to take Zoloft for anxiety problems and being fat. I started getting fat in college when I got into software work. That was 11 years ago and I gained a lot of weight from sitting around and overeating. The Zoloft is only since around 2001.

I had a lot of blood work done for a new insurance policy about 6 months ago and nothing weird showed up, I assume, else they wouldn't have insured me for a lot of money.

Also, just so you know, I was able to lose 39 lbs doing straight cardio...I then gained about 14 back during the next year (wife's pregnancy weight) so I am still down 25 lbs from where I was...problem is getting any lower.

Zoloft is known to cause weight gain.

http://www.join-the-fun.com/zoloft-and-weight-gain.html


This could be hindering your progress. You might want to consider tapering off the zoloft or switching to another antidepressant that doesnt cause weight gain. From my personal experience, antidepressants are WAY WAY WAY OVERPRESCRIBED and if you are exercising and eating right, you may not need them anymore.

Many psyche doctors have admitted that aerobic exercise and sunlight are as effective as 20mg prozac daily

Zoloft is known to cause weight gain.

http://www.join-the-fun.com/zoloft-and-weight-gain.html


This could be hindering your progress. You might want to consider tapering off the zoloft or switching to another antidepressant that doesnt cause weight gain. From my personal experience, antidepressants are WAY WAY WAY OVERPRESCRIBED and if you are exercising and eating right, you may not need them anymore.

Many psyche doctors have admitted that aerobic exercise and sunlight are as effective as 20mg prozac daily

I'd probably be in really, really bad shape if I hadn't gone on it when I did.

Remember, I lost 39 lbs in 2004 from pure cardio, so I don't see how it could be stopping fat loss now?

I have two colleagues (female) who both got off Zoloft last year. Both experienced significant weight gain.

I have two colleagues (female) who both got off Zoloft last year. Both experienced significant weight gain.

a)got fat as a direct result of coming off medication

b)got fat as an indirect reult because they are emotional eaters and now their emotions are less in check by drugs

could go either way. not necessarily the drugs fault.

I'd probably be in really, really bad shape if I hadn't gone on it when I did.

Remember, I lost 39 lbs in 2004 from pure cardio, so I don't see how it could be stopping fat loss now?

not everyone reacts to drugs the same.

I wish I was on drugs so I could have something to blame other than myself.:(

I think you should post your diet Marysson. 5 pound fluctuation is probably water.

I'm not denying that zoloft may have helped you through a difficult time, I'm just saying that now you have made so many lifestyle changes you might not need it any more. You should NEVER just stop taking an antidepressant, but you can taper off or go with one that doesnt cause weight gain like wellbutrin(which actually helps with weight loss). Consult your doctor.

From my own personal experience, if I'm adhering to a fitness and eating program and getting some time outside - I feel tremendously better psychologically. I can go one week without eating right and being a couch potato and I get depressed. It really makes that much difference!

From my own personal experience, if I'm adhering to a fitness and eating program and getting some time outside - I feel tremendously better psychologically. I can go one week without eating right and being a couch potato and I get depressed. It really makes that much difference!
You got that right!:tucool:

a)got fat as a direct result of coming off medication

b)got fat as an indirect reult because they are emotional eaters and now their emotions are less in check by drugs

could go either way. not necessarily the drugs fault.


Both are long time anti-depresant users. While both felt the zoloft helped them upstairs, both gained more than 20 lbs. Both lost that weight when they got off.

Now whether it was chemicla or psychological I don't know. The doctor of one did say he'd seen the issue with others on Zoloft.

Officially they claim "Will I gain weight on Zoloft?
Studies show that Zoloft is not associated with weight gain, so you shouldn't gain weight because of Zoloft. " So maybe it is more about mental state... but the evidence is there. I've seen enough of there habits to know it could indeed be indirect as you suggest. But since they stopped using it and "recovered" in teh weight department, it still makes the drug somewhat culpable in my book.

I have two colleagues (female) who both got off Zoloft last year. Both experienced significant weight gain.

I read this wrong. I thought you meant they gained the weight after getting off of the drug. Sorry.

I read this wrong. I thought you meant they gained the weight after getting off of the drug. Sorry.


:whistle: No problem... that happens. :D

I'm not denying that zoloft may have helped you through a difficult time, I'm just saying that now you have made so many lifestyle changes you might not need it any more. You should NEVER just stop taking an antidepressant, but you can taper off or go with one that doesnt cause weight gain like wellbutrin(which actually helps with weight loss). Consult your doctor.

Lets get back to reality for just a second.

Instead of suggesting he get off of his medication without having a full psycological profile of him, lets just advise him on diet. I hate to bring this up but suggesting he stop taking his medication could lead to a relapse into depression or at worst, suicide. While it may be true that he doesnt need it, or that its causing weight gain, or that sunlight and rainbows could cure him, its probably a better idea that he talk to whomever prescribed the drug before he get off of it.

Now, as to advising other people on diet and weight loss? Most of it is anecdotal, and Ive taken nutrition classes - its not that hard. "Quit eating so damn much" is better advice than you thought (this doesnt necessarily apply to you, its just written to contrast the advice on psychological problems).

Marysson, If I were you, Id start doing cardio. You say you dont do it. Why not? Unless you have a reason in the line of "my heart will explode if it beats faster than 100bpm" or "Im allergic to treadmills" than jump on and give it a whirl. You did it earlier and lost 39 pounds, which is excellent. Why not repeat that success while integrating a weight training program to preserve muscle?

200 cals is a candy bar or a can of soda- it's pretty negligible. Even 500 cals is still not enough, esp. if he isn't losing any weight.

You aren't counting your calories correctly. It's not the medication. You should set up a fitday account (www.fitday.com) and keep perfect tabs on what you throw into your mouth.

Try 2000 cals/day. At your size and bf%, with a healthy dose of exercise, you will start losing weight.


I'd cut calories by only 200 to start. 2200 seems pretty reasonable to me.

I'd probably be in really, really bad shape if I hadn't gone on it when I did.

Remember, I lost 39 lbs in 2004 from pure cardio, so I don't see how it could be stopping fat loss now?

We all to a certain extent know where your coming from regarding depression. No human being can claim never to have gone through a period/s of it. I for one have had my own periods, but I never took pysche medications to solve or make my problems seem less of an issue(And dont get me wrong Im not saying Im a better person because of it, just that it was my choice). Im not saying everyone should follow this example. Some cases deem it a necessity and Im dead serious by that. If you need it, you need it.

If you really need to continue taking it by all means do so, but do understand that any medication taken will have side-effects on your body. Not everyone is the same, everyones biochemistry is different to an extent. However with this in mind, please focus on what you can change.

You said you had great success with cardio :tu: If so then start doing it again. I know from personal experience cardio has been a great help in my fat loss progress. This along with drinking lots of water and eating right makes a HUGE difference. Maybe drop a few hundred(2-3 hundred)calories from your current daily intake and see if it makes a difference.

With regards to drink diet; Cut out alcohol, diet drinks and normal sodas. Just drink good old H20 :) Thats if your really dead serious in shifting the scales.

With regards to cheat meals/days: This one is completely up to you. I personally dont think a cheat day is a good thing, a cheat meal? yes this is fine in my book. Just as long as it doesnt throw you off track by too much and that you resume your normal routine without pause.

Youve definately got what it takes to lose weight. That much is clear from what you said about your previous losses. You can do it again :tu:
Just believe in yourself and follow your routine religilously. Do your cardio and your weight training program. Im sure your weight will drop. Persistance is the key. Good luck friend :)

Good advice, Novo, except this:


With regards to drink diet; Cut out alcohol, diet drinks and normal sodas. Just drink good old H20 :) Thats if your really dead serious in shifting the scales.



Diet drinks will not hurt weight loss. It may be placebo for some people, but many people around the world have lost significant weight drinking diet drinks.

Good advice, Novo, except this:
Diet drinks will not hurt weight loss. It may be placebo for some people, but many people around the world have lost significant weight drinking diet drinks.

:) Id agree with you regarding diet drinks, but I still wouldnt touch anything that has Aspartame in it. After reading quite abit of information on it, whenever I read a diet drink label or product that contains it, I shudder. Some seriously nasty side-effects.

Ive seen evidence first hand. My brother who isnt overweight(he is slim built) used to drink diet coke by the bottles and that crap made him look god awful. He looked unhealthy(skinwise) and he was irritable as well. His hair also looked unhealthy. Aspartame is definately a bad thing. He has stopped and he looks 100times better. :tu:

However :) I agree as a measure for those overweight who need to break slowly into a lifestyle thats more healthy. Diet drinks do allow a means to change a lifestyle without taking too drastic a step. In this case take them by all means, as long as it is in moderation.

I quit the Diet Cokes two weeks ago cold turkey and I'm not drinking them again. I drink water all day long.

PS

For those assuming about why I'm on medication or that I don't really need it or whatever, you don't know the details, ok?

I would stray from any soda altogether. At least minimize it. Phosphoric acid in soda has been found to possibly binding with calcium therefore preventing absorption for use in the body. Kids have had more and more noticeable bone loss and that is one theory. Granted, it's just a theory and it may be simply due to the fact that kids splurge on juices and soda all day now instead of milk at mealtime which has greatly minimized the amount of calcium kids get now as opposed to 20,30 or 40+ years ago. Allowing soda machines in schools has been a disaster on kids' health. I remember at morning recess we were allowed to buy a milk for 5c to drink during that recess and then having one again at lunch. Soda machines never appeared in school until I was in 8th grade and even then we were barred from buying out of it until after school was dismissed.

The gov in Illinois banned schools from selling soda to students during school hours recently. That's good and all but the soda was replaced with other products that have far more calories such as 20 oz bottles of Sunny Delight and Starburst Smoothie, a drink that's whole milk and has more sugar in it than a regular Coke.

The aspartame in diet soda alone is enough for me to minimize its intake. I see no problem with having a few a week with Splenda like Diet RC or Diet Coke with Splenda though. Lord knows on cheat day when I'm eating a pizza it doesn't feel complete without something carbonated to wash it down.

Lets get back to reality for just a second.

Instead of suggesting he get off of his medication without having a full psycological profile of him, lets just advise him on diet. I hate to bring this up but suggesting he stop taking his medication could lead to a relapse into depression or at worst, suicide. While it may be true that he doesnt need it, or that its causing weight gain, or that sunlight and rainbows could cure him, its probably a better idea that he talk to whomever prescribed the drug before he get off of it.

Now, as to advising other people on diet and weight loss? Most of it is anecdotal, and Ive taken nutrition classes - its not that hard. "Quit eating so damn much" is better advice than you thought (this doesnt necessarily apply to you, its just written to contrast the advice on psychological problems).

Marysson, If I were you, Id start doing cardio. You say you dont do it. Why not? Unless you have a reason in the line of "my heart will explode if it beats faster than 100bpm" or "Im allergic to treadmills" than jump on and give it a whirl. You did it earlier and lost 39 pounds, which is excellent. Why not repeat that success while integrating a weight training program to preserve muscle?

If you read my post carefully, I told him to consult his doctor before doing anything. I work in healthcare. I still stand by my personal experience that antidepressive drugs are way overprescribed. :confused:

For those assuming about why I'm on medication or that I don't really need it or whatever, you don't know the details, ok?

Dont take offense, you're right I dont know the details. However, you asked for advice why you were stalling in progress and you specifically mentioned zoloft so I felt obliged to address it. I agree with previous posters, the best idea may be to just step up the cardio and use rigorous honesty on fitday to count calories. If that still doesnt have the results you want, then you can consult your doctor and discuss other options such as changing/tapering etc. Best of luck!