Whats your opinion of using Waterbury's programs for someone my age (46)? I've been working out now for about a year and a half, have lost about 50 lbs, with about 30 more to go. Using a handheld Omron analyzer, I'm at about 25% bf. I seen to have recovered from a recent rotator cuff strain, and have been doing a 3 day split.

Is the frequency/intensity of Waterbury too intense for us older guys? Most of his routines work the same areas 2x per week.

Also, for someone cutting, should I start with the recommended progression of ABBH1, ABBH2, etc. ?

Whats your opinion of using Waterbury's programs for someone my age (46)? I've been working out now for about a year and a half, have lost about 50 lbs, with about 30 more to go. Using a handheld Omron analyzer, I'm at about 25% bf.

Our cases are broadly similar - I'm 47 and have lost about 50 pounds with an unknown amount possibly in the 30-50 pound range that might go. The Omron had me at 33% at the beginning, and now it says 21%.

I don't have a view to Waterbury, but I will say that the handheld Omron machine doesn't seem too accurate. For the longest time it was reading 23-24 and I was losing weight and appeared to be getting stronger. I actually think 21% might not be that far off, but I think it's still a little high.

I thought I would be able to use the Omron more for exercise planning, but it hasn't turned out that way. It's more for amusement purposes. The fine print on it says that if your body composition is changing a lot, or if you lift weights a lot, then it is not too accurate. (Makes you wonder. Who needs the thing if their body composition isn't changing?)

I don't have a view to Waterbury, but I will say that the handheld Omron machine doesn't seem too accurate. For the longest time it was reading 23-24 and I was losing weight and appeared to be getting stronger. I actually think 21% might not be that far off, but I think it's still a little high.



I totally agree about the handheld BF analyzers. I just look at how the number increases/decreases in relation to my weight. I'm sure an accurate caliper measurement would be better, but I haven't had any luck using them - once I did it and came up with 9% - obviously wrong!

What set/rep philosophy do you like? High Volume? HIT? Splits?

I totally agree about the handheld BF analyzers. I just look at how the number increases/decreases in relation to my weight. I'm sure an accurate caliper measurement would be better, but I haven't had any luck using them - once I did it and came up with 9% - obviously wrong!

What set/rep philosophy do you like? High Volume? HIT? Splits?

The caliper thing is supposed to be pretty accurate if the person using the calipers has been trained and does many hundreds of measurements as practice before they do serious work with them. I don't know how well they work for the many people that occasionally use them.

I hear that DEXA is the way to go, but then how often do you want to check your fat percentage by getting X-rayed?

As far as my protocol? I hang really loose in some ways, and pretty tight in others. There is actually a lot of method I have, and it's adapted to things like my age, and starting out obese, that would be in common with you.

I do keep a journal, and you can see what I have done in it. It follows closer to a martial arts approach with a little powerlifting ethic, it's certainly not a body builder program. But I also incorporate a lot of core and stability work, which actually helped a lot with the heavy lifting and make me comfortable in much of my daily life.

One thing I really do pretty regularly is to workout pretty high volume - cardio and lifting at the same time - and then almost completely rest the next day (I still get two brisk miles walking from my commute every day). I do not find that cardio reduces my capacity to lift, and it does not seem to have any ill effect on muscle growth. I also don't get DOMS very often at all. My personal experience is that the full rest day is a huge plus and doing cardio and lifting on the same day doesn't seem to be a problem at all.

One big thing about the way we work out in the gym is that Andre (my trainer) likes to think about what exercise to do next based on what equipment will be available next so there is no rest that isn't actually needed. This doesn't mean that we will do calf raises when we meant to do cable crunches, it's more like we'll do some other ab variant that is available. I do tons of dumbell and barbell work, and that usually means that I don't have to wait for equipment. The point is I don't have a routine that says 3 sets of X then 3 sets of Y etc. We think about what we were aiming for, what we seem to be getting, and what opportunity there is at that moment. Being opportunistic and improvising helps keep the body and mind from being able to adapt. At no time in my workout do I know that "well that's over with and now I only have to worry about this...". Trust me, anything could be next. I think that is a good ethic for how to translate fitness back into daily life - I can't really plan on how I will need to use my body other than sitting around commuting or behind a desk. Unexpected exercise when it makes sense is good.

I normally do upper exercises with at least 12 reps, unless I'm pretty strong in that particular exercise, in which case 25 is more like it. The ones I am strong in are the ones that involve the upper back, and to some extent chest. The weak muscles on me are the deltoids.

There is a common exception to this. A lot of times in an upper workout, my trainer shoots for "killing" one muscle area right at the start with a big volume to exhaust it. Such as delts are his favorite target these days. So a few sets of 25 overhead lunges normally sufficient to kill my delts. This has an effect on the whole rest of the workout. We push hard, but there is no rule that we have to use more weight than last time - or the same. If we find a weight easy, we move up, or add reps. If things look rough, Andre usually improvises the rest of the sets around that muscle being "done" if it's done in his opinion. If it's not done in his opinion, I get to work on my "mental".

Leg exercises - all bets are off. One of the cornerstones of my program is that I have strong legs and I will beat them like a drum if given the chance. There's big muscles down there and I need them to pump out some calories and hormones in order to get closer to a young man exercise response. Sometimes when my arms are really beat in an upper workout, I've done squats at 135 for rest - it helps the arms recover with the extra circulation. My normal sets for single leg exercises are 20-30, except for pistols which are more like 12, and heavy pistols or weighted pistols with twists are more like to failure - frequently those don't get to 12. Squats that use two legs I do really high reps.

The philosophy here is that I get a different effect from a long set of pretty heavy squats than from a short set of really heavy squats. To get a really long set of someting of decent weight, you have to call upon not just strength, but also cardio fitness, lactate processing, and a good deal of mental concentration and control. There is a bit more fear to overcome squatting a new 1RM, as opposed to endurance. There isn't much fear, but a lot of focusing and just bearing down hard, in getting more reps at decent weight. Endurance doesn't conquer fear as much as maybe it conquers dread.

This is sort of what my goal of 60 reps at 225# comes from. I think it expresses overall fitness better than most other things I can aim for at the moment. What would come after that would be probably the 6:00 mile (I'm at 6:20) and then maybe something like benching 225 for reps (I'm at 1 "almost two"), then rowing 2km in 6:30 (I'm at 6:51.6). Then maybe deadlift for reps at 315 (never tried that yet).

The idea is that one goal at a time will allow me to focus the program toward that goal, but shifting the goal will keep forcing the body to adapt to a new thing. Never let it get settled.

So I guess this is the roundabout way of suggesting that maybe you should try ALL of the programs that interest you. Just make sure you give each one a serious push. At our age, there are no overnight results.

Thanks for the info!

Someone has strongly recommended that I try HIT. I am familiar with the concepts (I have Darden's New HIT book) but I am still not sure which way to go. It seems like the majority of folks here favor volume programs like Waterbury or MaxOT. Most of what I have done over the past year has been standard 3 day splits, with 2-3 sets /exercise, usually 1 compound and 1 isolation exercise per muscle group. I am on a slow cut, 1-2 lbs per week, and would really like to pack on some more muscle (I know, hard to do while cutting, but I've done pretty good so far) Injury prevention is becoming more of a concern also.

Yes, it sounds as though there may be even more similarities between us. Before I got so out of shape (and also tore a tendon in my ankle) I was an avid runner. Cross-country in high school, and recreational after that. I really loved getting out on the hottest days and doing about 5 or six miles. My ankle is so bad now that even with surgery, the doctor said I probably can't run again. But it was just after that injury that I started weight training, and calf raises have made an incredible difference. I am now able to run on a treadmill wihtout hardly any pain.
You also mentioned martial arts. I used to study tae kwon do, and was pretty proficient, although I never made it to black belt. Our school was very demanding and didn't hand out belts like candy, the way some schools do. Even though I was just an advanced green belt, I routinely got the better of red and brown belts from other schools in sparring.

Anyway, thanks again for the info and sharing your program!

Someone has strongly recommended that I try HIT. I am familiar with the concepts (I have Darden's New HIT book) but I am still not sure which way to go.

Anyway, thanks again for the info and sharing your program!

Life is long enough to try both yes? Do three months of HIT. If you aren't ecstatic, then do three months of MAX-OT. If you're still not superman? Do four months of HIT. etc. Keep switching back and forth, but stick with each program longer than the last time.

You will be guaranteed by this method to have tried both of these, and eventually, you will have stuck with them long enough to have figured out which is better for you. I'd bet that the time you spend doing the "wrong" one isn't wasted, anyway.

And of course, by the time you've figured out the value of those two programs, you will have learned more about yourself and have another idea of where to go.

You're welcome to my program, whether you use it as a roadmap, or as canary cage liner.