Hi,
It's been 4 days since anyone's posted! I just wanted to pass on some additional benefits I've received from clean eating and doing regular exercise for the past 14 weeks (cardio 3 days/week and total body lifting 2 days/week). I've removed 12 pounds, and finally got into the jeans I bought 4 years ago after losing 20 lbs on Herbalife. I weighed 132 pounds after 10 weeks of Herbalife protein shakes and using green/beige tablets (thermogenics, including ephedra). I actually kept the weight off for a year. But I hadn't developed any good eating habits and didn't exercise :nono: , so the weight came back on eventually. Here's the interesting part...I am more fit now at 140 pounds than I was five years ago at 132. The jeans I bought back then fit me now even though I weigh 8 pounds more now than I did then! AND, I dropped my cholesterol from 249 to 206! I'm not stopping, this is too much fun!:claphigh:

Howdy! I am new to the forums AND to weight lifting. On Monday I started with a set of dvd's from The Firm. Three days a week I work my whole body with 8 and 10 lbs dumbells, as well as completing an obscene amount of leg presses and squats. Then 2 days a week I walk on a treadmill for a couple of miles.

I started my weight loss journey January 2005. I eventually worked my way up to jogging 6 miles a day, every day. Then I started injurying my knees and upper thigh muscles, so I had to reduce my activity to walking. I started reading about strength training around Christmas time, because of my injuries. Just took me this long to try it. So far, I love it!

Michelle

Hi and welcome to this fantastic forum! The folks here are supportive and knowledgeable. John Stone has been an inspiration to so many people. Good luck on your fitness quest!

Thanks! You too!

Michelle

Unfortunately it has seemed that as John has gotten bigger (Bodybuilder bigger) the interest from ladies has dropped.

I think a lot of the ladies were attracted to John's site initially because he was a normal guy, but now that he is huge, they are turned off and intimidated.

I miss lots of the forum regulars from a long time ago like Emma, Trinity, Freemason.

We still have Hibiscus and Justita and Boxer in training and Rockenmamma and Guava and CausticMuse but they don't post as often as they used too. (I know I'm missing lots of other great contributors, I apologize)

It is quite sad as one of the things that I think made JSF unique was the strong and engaged female presence/perspective!

Oh well! JOHN!! Please anti-bulk about 25 pounds of muscle so we can get the ladies back!

-Allen

Unfortunately it has seemed that as John has gotten bigger (Bodybuilder bigger) the interest from ladies has dropped.

I think a lot of the ladies were attracted to John's site initially because he was a normal guy, but now that he is huge, they are turned off and intimidated.
I'm not intimidated by John (any more than I ever was initially:p), but I do more often get the feeling that the population of this site is tending much more towards people whose goals are mainly to get bigger or look better rather than mainly to lose fat or become healthier. There are still a great number of people whose goals I consider to be similar to mine, but I feel like more of an oddity now than I used to be.

I'm not intimidated by John (any more than I ever was initially:p), but I do more often get the feeling that the population of this site is tending much more towards people whose goals are mainly to get bigger or look better rather than mainly to lose fat or become healthier. There are still a great number of people whose goals I consider to be similar to mine, but I feel like more of an oddity now than I used to be.
I don't think many people realize there's a difference between looking better and becoming healthier.

If you look at the forum names, they're based on bodybuilding ideals -- Cutting, Bulking, Nutrition & Supplements. The two forums with Health in their name are General Health & Fitness, Injuries, and Sports, which is mostly used to offer advice about injuries and just doesn't sound like the right forum to go to if you want to be healthier nutritionally or "spiritually," (non-religious context -- happier living, contentment, fulfillment, etc.) and Female Health & Fitness, which does end up giving some good health advice.

The word Fitness is repeated all throughout the site while word Health is minimized. From that, I'd infer that the focus of this site is mainly fitness and, by reading, body transformations -- whether or not those are the stated goals.

Perhaps, if there's interest, a specific "Living Healthy" forum should be created. I don't know. You could front the campaign and bring it to John's attention if this is a concern of yours. :tu:

I would be up for that. I realized a few weeks ago, despite the almost two years of pretty consistent cardio on machines at slightly above max fat burning rates... when I ran outside, I got out of breath quickly. Right now I am going through a slue of surgeries (outpatient) so I will be largely out of commission for the next 6 weeks from a fitness standpoint.... (I should be back to active normal at the end of May.) But I would like then to start figuring out how to combine healthy with fitness goals.

As for John.. all I find him to be is inspiring...(and funny and with a good heart...and a wise decision-maker... :nod: )

I agree that this site's allure has gone way down hill in my opinion. There is alot of knowledge here, but once you know it, there is really nothing else to offer. It serves an intial purpose, but that is true of almost every site on the net. John's initial transformation was inspiring, but the constant desire to continue to get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and...is really not of interest to the masses as much as initial fat loss and general health

I agree that this site's allure has gone way down hill in my opinion. There is alot of knowledge here, but once you know it, there is really nothing else to offer. John's initial transformation was inspiring, but the constant desire to continue to get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and...is really not of interest to the masses as much as initial fat loss and general health

I don't see what john's goals have anything to do with what women choose to do. The obtaining of muscles is certainly within the domain of health and fitness. You don't have to have the body of an emaciated endurance athlete to be fit.

There are always places to discuss any form of exercise and diet here. The subject matter is up to the poster not their sex. And unlike the majority of sites you don't get hassled so the women should love that part.

Don't blame john or his body, there is a lot of good advice given here to men women and even children.

I agree that this site's allure has gone way down hill in my opinion. There is alot of knowledge here, but once you know it, there is really nothing else to offer. It serves an intial purpose, but that is true of almost every site on the net. John's initial transformation was inspiring, but the constant desire to continue to get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and...is really not of interest to the masses as much as initial fat loss and general health

I disagree. I am a competitive, drug tested bodybuilder on the national level. Have done close to 70 shows in my career, and the heaviest I've ever weighed for a show was probably around 160 lbs. My goals are not to be bigger and bigger and bigger, but to be healthier, in balance physically and mentally (ha, still got alotta work with that one) and to hold back the aging process as much as possible.

Additionally, in my 25 years in exercise, nutrition, and general fitness I still consider myself on the beginner/intermediate level. One NEVER knows or learns everything. I can almost guarantee that I learn something new almost on a daily basis.

I am not discrediting John at all...he gets all the credit in the world for what he has done, and what he continues to do, he is second to almost none in work ethic and consistency,

I am simply saying that for the majority of people, they see his beginning photo and current photo and say "Wow look at this guy" and then a few weeks later forget his name...nothing against him, other websites are the same way...for those he continues to inspire (including myself) I think this site does it's job very well...

I am not speaking about the regulars here...I am talking about the "very general" public

I'm on this site a lot, but quite often don't feel I need to post on the 'female' thread as my questions or comments apply to all, not just to girls!:D

I think the forum and all the tranformations are fantastic and I'm certainly not running away because anyone is bulking too much!:D

Well, I know if I hadn't found this site and "met" all the health conscious people here who are working for a stronger, leaner body, I wouldn't be as far along as I am. I've learned something everyday from John's site and I thank him and everyone else who contributes here for their guidance and inspiration and knowledge. I love the comraderie. I've visited other sites, but I am not intimidated by the men here. I welcome their ideas and their help, as well as all the amazing women on this forum.
:nod:

My two cents, for what it's worth...JSF will only be as successful as those members who contribute. More muscle burns more fat, so I'm all for that.

Damn...now I'm trying to figure out if I joined JSF while it was still cool. :blank:

M@

I just like helping others and learning myself.

Personally i don't follow John progress that much, is that bad?:o

I'm in the jacked group i guess. I want to be 220 with %10bodyfat and 18inch arms :D However, i will not sacrifice health.

That said, i'm always an althete first and foremost.

That is why I am bothered by those that jump on the new folks about doing a search before you dare ask a question. Almost any question here can be answered by doing a search. In fact, you could just shut things down and let a search robot do its thing. Is that what anybody wants?
If you can not find the answer here searching try www.google.com :(

<snip>JSF will only be as successful as those members who contribute.<snip

My guess is that the female forum primarily servve newbie women. There are a lot of myths, fears that need to get busted (" Ooooh, I don't want to get all big and muscular... I just want to get toned") ("Lift how much weight?:eek: Lift weights?:spaz: )

But once you finally get it: build muscle, cut body fat, learn your macros beyond calories... It seems that the info and what to ponder is not much different between men and women. Then, at least for me, I like and read and sometimes post in the main forums. I have learned a lot more there after I reached a certain point...

Plus everyone is sooo supportive here... the men particularly .... I am so proud to know everyone here...

SO maybe until I get sufficentely advanced that nuances between men and women start to matter again... I probably will continue to just hang out in the main forums. (And of course the wonderful "Off-Topics" forum where some of the most intelligent and stimulating and witty conversation I have or read all day takes place every day.)

I too, had noticed there is much less activity in the ladies forum as there had used to be. I wonder if we are using the search button more efficiently now??!!

When I first joined, I was intimidated by commenting because I felt uncomfortable for one reason or another. I don't post that often, but I visit everyday. I feel like I need to read other people's journeys to stay informed and motivated. If it weren't for this site, I don't think I would have been able to look at nutrition and dieting as a positive thing for both myself and my family, long-term.

I love this site. Kudos to John and all other members for sharing their stories!

I disagree completely!!

I agree that this site's allure has gone way down hill in my opinion. There is alot of knowledge here, but once you know it, there is really nothing else to offer. It serves an intial purpose, but that is true of almost every site on the net. John's initial transformation was inspiring, but the constant desire to continue to get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and...is really not of interest to the masses as much as initial fat loss and general health


And I'm sooo thankful to read posts from folks like Justitia, Guava and Maggie to get the womens' perspective of things.

That said, i'm always an althete first and foremost.

Yeah, that is the category I fall into.

Ironically, I find myself hitting the "off topic" section. Then I might browse other sections and see if any titles catch my eye.

I think a lot of the ladies were attracted to John's site initially because he was a normal guy, but now that he is huge, they are turned off and intimidated.


I think it is more like, once you get past the basics, you find what direction you want to head in and what goals are needed to take you there. I already know what to do nutrition wise, and I am not interested in packing on muscle, but more interested in becoming a better athlete. So my goals are catered towards building more functional strength, increasing sport specific skills and increasing my anaerobic capacity. To name a few.

We really should have an FAQ in the women's section. Like "Will I get huge and Bulky if I lift Weights." Things that may be more specific to a woman's concerns and needs. That might help.... I don't know.

Anyway, like anything else, it ebbs and flows and that is how this section of the forum is at the moment.

I think it is more like, once you get past the basics, you find what direction you want to head in and what goals are needed to take you there. I already know what to do nutrition wise, and I am not interested in packing on muscle, but more interested in becoming a better athlete. So my goals are catered towards building more functional strength, increasing sport specific skills and increasing my anaerobic capacity. To name a few.

We really should have an FAQ in the women's section. Like "Will I get huge and Bulky if I lift Weights." Things that may be more specific to a woman's concerns and needs. That might help.... I don't know.

Anyway, like anything else, it ebbs and flows and that is how this section of the forum is at the moment.

My goals are similar to yours.

I think a woman specific FAQ would make an excellent addition around here. :)

Hi,
It's been 4 days since anyone's posted! ...
I'm a newcomer. The last time I posted a question on JSF's ladies forum (weightloss and training while breastfeeding) it took weeks for someone to answer - received good advice, just a long wait. Since then I haven't bothered to post questions, just searched JSF or googled them. I read JS's daily posts - my husband was inspired by him a year ago and has lost 110 pounds :claplow: and is now bulking. Turned his jelly belly into a gorgeous bod :drool:. Now I'm bringing up the rear. JS is true inspiration! Best quote "no excuses". While my man was losing pounds I was pregnant with our 2nd baby and although I concentrated on nutrition and fitness and hardly put on any weight throughout my pregnancy, I still had a long way to go. I have lost 30.8 pounds in 3 months and am thoroughly enjoying my training regime, which includes 20 min cardio at the high end of my fat burning level plus 60 min weight training 3 to 4 times per week (I'd like to go everyday but this is the best I can do with two small kids under 3years). Nutrition has come along nicely but still lots of improvement to do. When I hit a plateau I make adjustments and the weight melts off. I've been on many diets and diet pills in the last 10 years. This is the first time that I'm doing this naturally - achieving huge success - with nutrition and exercise alone. And exercise has done wonders for my mental/spiritual health. I'm grumpy if I miss out on a gym day! I need to hear from more ladies who are still in the losing weight phase as I need inspiration on those down days - when I'm exhausted after a night of no sleep. Keep posting ladies! I'll check in daily. :tu:

Some ladies are moonlighting at Pinkdumbells.com

GraceGirl checking in!! I haven't been around as much lately, but I hope to be visiting more frequently now that my personal life has calmed down a bit.

I do wish there were more women who took more of an interest in fitness, rather than just losing weight. Just about every woman I know wants to lose weight, but when you mention diet, weight training, and cardio, they quickly lose interest!!

Anyway, I'm proud to be a JSF chick!!

Glad you're back, GG, I always enjoy reading your posts.

I don't see what john's goals have anything to do with what women choose to do. The obtaining of muscles is certainly within the domain of health and fitness. You don't have to have the body of an emaciated endurance athlete to be fit.

There are always places to discuss any form of exercise and diet here. The subject matter is up to the poster not their sex. And unlike the majority of sites you don't get hassled so the women should love that part.

Don't blame john or his body, there is a lot of good advice given here to men women and even children.

:claplow: :claplow:

I agree whole heartedly... I don't post in the Female section all that much because I post everywhere else... I, personally, don't see a need for a 'female only' section, as I train in the same way a man can the only differences are genetic and I don't find that to be a big enough difference to need a separate section to post in... I come in here now and again to see if anyone needs help or if an interesting topic has come up.. but that's about it... I love this site and I think John looks better than ever... and I whole heartedly disagree with akm3 and his statement about women being turned off by Johns new size.. don't assume things like that man... personally, I think John looks loads better now, with more muscle, than he did after his initial transformation... I love a strong, muscled and fit man MUCH more than an emaciated thin guy... we are all different and we all like, and are attracted to, different things, so please try to keep from making blanket statements like that

perhaps we have saturated the market for right now... maybe a lot of women are at the gym trying to get into better shape for beach season (which is pretty much already here in Florida)... this is also a big vacation time of year, it could be that people are on vacation or they are just plain busy... who knows... personally I've been around here for more than a year and in that time the 'female' section of this site has never been very active... just sayin'

I wonder how the addition of the "Paying Members" Section has affected upstairs?

I for one, spend (and have spent) much more time down there.

I've been quietly following this thread, but I decided to post my comments in a separate thread in "Off Topic" because I'd like to get some feedback from everyone! :)

Please read and chime in!

http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=28276

Could they all be hanging out at the ladies forums, www.pinkdumbells.com?

When I check at pinkdumbbells, there aren't that many new posts. I think JSF has a lot more traffic, and it's my favorite fitness forum.

I wonder how the addition of the "Paying Members" Section has affected upstairs?

I for one, spend (and have spent) much more time down there.
I for one dont think the paying section has much to do with anything. I donated some and opened a thread down there but get hardly any responses in my journal on my progress. I find I have much more inspiration and get more of a lift from the public area. I dont even post down there anymore since I was basically talking to myself. :)

I want to chime in as well. As a female interested in fiteness, it is not John or his size that has occasionally turned me away from these forums, but rather the patronizing attitudes some members display towards females (perhaps without even realizing it?)

It shouldn't be assumed that we are clueless, insecure, or need constant male approval.

It' s the community that will attract and hold members, not how big John gets or doesn't get. Most of the people on this site are very supportive. Others may be driving women away, either intentionally or by accident.

I want to chime in as well. As a female interested in fiteness, it is not John or his size that has occasionally turned me away from these forums, but rather the patronizing attitudes some members display towards females (perhaps without even realizing it?)

It shouldn't be assumed that we are clueless, insecure, or need constant male approval.

It' s the community that will attract and hold members, not how big John gets or doesn't get. Most of the people on this site are very supportive. Others may be driving women away, either intentionally or by accident.

Really? I have never noticed that. Could you please show me a couple examples?

Do you see any irony in your post and your user name?

Why does your profile say male?

***?

I have not noticed a patronizing attitude toward female posters here, but I have come across some uncomfortable "locker room" talk, and seen some aparent lack of respect for their girlfriends, wives, or women that they see in their gym.

I also feel sometimes like my opinion is less relevant here than it once was. It used to seem like the majority of the members here shared my goal of maintaining a healthy body fat level and eating as smartly as possible, and that seems less accurate now as a greater proportion now have goals of building muscle mass to near competitive bodybuilder levels rather than simply optimal health levels.

Really? I have never noticed that. Could you please show me a couple examples?

Do you see any irony in your post and your user name?

Why does your profile say male?

***?

I second this, I was wondering the same thing...:confused: :confused:


I have not noticed a patronizing attitude toward female posters here, but I have come across some uncomfortable "locker room" talk, and seen some aparent lack of respect for their girlfriends, wives, or women that they see in their gym.

I also feel sometimes like my opinion is less relevant here than it once was. It used to seem like the majority of the members here shared my goal of maintaining a healthy body fat level and eating as smartly as possible, and that seems less accurate now as a greater proportion now have goals of building muscle mass to near competitive bodybuilder levels rather than simply optimal health levels.

Guava, I appreciate your opinion and definitely see the value of it. On several occassions I know you have thought about not participating at the level you usually do here at JSF for various, and many times valid, reasons. I am always glad to see that you stick around. You are a valuable part of the forums, to men and women alike.

I think the great part of JSF is that it is a place that people with all different goals body wise can come and share their experience. I hope we can all continue to support eachother in our various and differing endevours.

I for one dont think the paying section has much to do with anything. I donated some and opened a thread down there but get hardly any responses in my journal on my progress. I find I have much more inspiration and get more of a lift from the public area. I dont even post down there anymore since I was basically talking to myself. :)
I feel you there. Although I feel that my journal is only there for me to track my own progress it is nice to have some feedback now and again. I'm not at upset about it but out of 107 or so views i'm sure 95 of them are mine alone:lol:

Really? I have never noticed that. Could you please show me a couple examples?

Do you see any irony in your post and your user name?

Why does your profile say male?

***?

Well, since I have only recently returned after leaving last year... I am not willing to go hunting for some of the many examples that made me feel this way. But your response is quite indicative of the hostile attitude here.

As for my name, I was born in 1969 and fail to see how using the name is "ironic" (even if one takes it as a sexual reference, which you apparently have) -- since I never said anything about sex or attitudes towards sex, I don't see the point.

And as for the gender, when I popped in earlier this week and created an account (having forgotten earlier access details) I chose male for the very reason I posted my initial comments -- because I was previously sick and tired of being treated like a 10 yr old girl and having people assume all sorts of erroneous things about me because I am female.

Why are you in the female forum by the way? You're not exactly giving helpful advice here, so please don't tell me you're here to support the ladies. If a woman can't speak honestly about things that bother her here without people implying unsavory things about her character, then what's the point of having female members at all?

I second this, I was wondering the same thing...:confused: :confused: .

That's right. Question any woman who dares answer the question posed in this thread. :doh: That's a sure way to keep 'em!

Well, since I have only recently returned after leaving last year... I am not willing to go hunting for some of the many examples that made me feel this way. But your response is quite indicative of the hostile attitude here.

As for my name, I was born in 1969 and fail to see how using the name is "ironic" (even if one takes it as a sexual reference, which you apparently have) -- since I never said anything about sex or attitudes towards sex, I don't see the point.

And as for the gender, when I popped in earlier this week and created an account (having forgotten earlier access details) I chose male for the very reason I posted my initial comments -- because I was previously sick and tired of being treated like a 10 yr old girl and having people assume all sorts of erroneous things about me because I am female.

Why are you in the female forum by the way? You're not exactly giving helpful advice here, so please don't tell me you're here to support the ladies. If a woman can't speak honestly about things that bother her here without people implying unsavory things about her character, then what's the point of having female members at all?


Congrats! You have me all figured out.:rolleyes:

I see absolutely nothing to be gained by arguing with you so see you around.

That's right. Question any woman who dares answer the question posed in this thread. :doh: That's a sure way to keep 'em!

69, I don't think attacking men who are concerned about why a woman would feel uncomfortable is a very good way to encourage dialogue. If you have an issue, talk about it, provide examples, don't malign character.

I have to admit, when I stopped visiting JSF for about a year, it was the bellicosity of one member who annoyed me so much it sort of spoiled the party for me. However, I am back, and I always come back, because this is the most supportive, warm-hearted, and dynamic fitness community I have found on-line. We certainly have hit our speedbumps along the way, but I think if you peruse the archives, you'll uncover a genuine willingness to try to understand why some members may feel marginalized.

Guava, I agree with you. I do feel like things are migrating in a slightly different direction, but I think your voice, and your perspective, are extremely important to what makes JSF JSF.

Well, since I have only recently returned after leaving last year... I am not willing to go hunting for some of the many examples that made me feel this way. But your response is quite indicative of the hostile attitude here.

As for my name, I was born in 1969 and fail to see how using the name is "ironic" (even if one takes it as a sexual reference, which you apparently have) -- since I never said anything about sex or attitudes towards sex, I don't see the point.

And as for the gender, when I popped in earlier this week and created an account (having forgotten earlier access details) I chose male for the very reason I posted my initial comments -- because I was previously sick and tired of being treated like a 10 yr old girl and having people assume all sorts of erroneous things about me because I am female.

Why are you in the female forum by the way? You're not exactly giving helpful advice here, so please don't tell me you're here to support the ladies. If a woman can't speak honestly about things that bother her here without people implying unsavory things about her character, then what's the point of having female members at all?
http://www.comicsvf.com/scans/voimage/troll/onceahero.jpg

I also feel sometimes like my opinion is less relevant here than it once was. It used to seem like the majority of the members here shared my goal of maintaining a healthy body fat level and eating as smartly as possible, and that seems less accurate now as a greater proportion now have goals of building muscle mass to near competitive bodybuilder levels rather than simply optimal health levels.
Guava - i think the reason is because now that swolecat is a sponsor, and with john going over to his program and having great results, more people are trying out SGX.

This means people won't be eating blueberries and grapefruit for breakfast, or yogurt as a mid-day snack.
Its not because they dont want to, it's because they want to stick to their program.

I'm with you on the health thing Guava. I train for health as my #1 priority. Body composition and size is #2. Luckily my training methods cultivate an improvement in my body's apperance as well as make me more healthy.

Now if we could only agree on what a healthy diet actually is...

Now if we could only agree on what a healthy diet actually is...
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/05/18/images/medium/FLO_2_eggs__0518.jpg


<----- I'm going to go ahead and nominate my reply as post of the year.

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/05/18/images/medium/FLO_2_eggs__0518.jpg


<----- I'm going to go ahead and nominate my reply as post of the year.

:lol: ... :blank: ... :nono:

Guava - i think the reason is because now that swolecat is a sponsor, and with john going over to his program and having great results, more people are trying out SGX.

This means people won't be eating blueberries and grapefruit for breakfast, or yogurt as a mid-day snack.
Its not because they dont want to, it's because they want to stick to their program.

I had grapefruit for breakfast :drool:

As for my fitness goals, if you have seen my recent pictures, it might appear that I am heading towards the "bodybuilder" or bulking direction. However, I am really just wanting to maintain my health and avoid future hereditary health issues (my main reason for staying in shape) and be in trim and healthy looking shape. I have a pretty good size frame and that has not come from "bulking" or anything like that. I actually have never gone on an official, well monitored "bulk". It is mainly the same genetics that bring hereditary health issues that have also allowed me to be able to put on muscle mass easily through just regular excersize...the same genetics also make it a real pain to cut fat too. So all of this to say that I ultimately am in the same boat as Tar and Guava and just want to be healthy...the outside appearance is definitely a plus.

http://www.comicsvf.com/scans/voimage/troll/onceahero.jpg


Starring in The Return of ***

Well, since I have only recently returned after leaving last year... I am not willing to go hunting for some of the many examples that made me feel this way. But your response is quite indicative of the hostile attitude here.

As for my name, I was born in 1969 and fail to see how using the name is "ironic" (even if one takes it as a sexual reference, which you apparently have) -- since I never said anything about sex or attitudes towards sex, I don't see the point.

And as for the gender, when I popped in earlier this week and created an account (having forgotten earlier access details) I chose male for the very reason I posted my initial comments -- because I was previously sick and tired of being treated like a 10 yr old girl and having people assume all sorts of erroneous things about me because I am female.

Why are you in the female forum by the way? You're not exactly giving helpful advice here, so please don't tell me you're here to support the ladies. If a woman can't speak honestly about things that bother her here without people implying unsavory things about her character, then what's the point of having female members at all?

hey... sorry, but I agree with badgolfer... your name is in fact most commonly associated with the sexual position (at least here in America), AND your profile info say's 'male' you can fix that you know... and quite frankly I don't see or understand why you are being so hostile... I have not once been made to feel inferior or less important because of my gender and I have a feeling that you are just being overly sensitive and reading things into posts that are NOT there.... and I find your comment above (bolded) quite ironic considering how hostile your attitude appears to be.

men post in this forum all the time, and yes, even in the 'female' section... just as your advise (or any womans) is valuable in the main forums, their (mens) advise is valuable here too... we are all equal at JSF and if you feel the way you do... my question would be... why did you come back? I'm not attacking you, just asking a question that is honestly puzzeling me since you seem to harbor so many negative feelings and memories of this very friendly, very helpful place.

and for whatever it's worth.. welcome back ;)

hey... sorry, but I agree with badgolfer... your name is in fact most commonly associated with the sexual position (at least here in America), AND your profile info say's 'male' you can fix that you know... and quite frankly I don't see or understand why you are being so hostile... I have not once been made to feel inferior or less important because of my gender and I have a feeling that you are just being overly sensitive and reading things into posts that are NOT there.... and I find your comment above (bolded) quite ironic considering how hostile your attitude appears to be.

men post in this forum all the time, and yes, even in the 'female' section... just as your advise (or any womans) is valuable in the main forums, their (mens) advise is valuable here too... we are all equal at JSF and if you feel the way you do... my question would be... why did you come back? I'm not attacking you, just asking a question that is honestly puzzeling me since you seem to harbor so many negative feelings and memories of this very friendly, very helpful place.

and for whatever it's worth.. welcome back ;)

Chameleon, I am impressed! You are such a diplomat...hit em with the velvet sledge-hammer! :lol: :tu:

I have not noticed a patronizing attitude toward female posters here, but I have come across some uncomfortable "locker room" talk, and seen some aparent lack of respect for their girlfriends, wives, or women that they see in their gym.
When you see this, report it. If it's disrespectful, report it. If it's barracks talk, report it. It doesn't belong here. And to keep the forum female-friendly, that's what has to start happening.

I also feel sometimes like my opinion is less relevant here than it once was. It used to seem like the majority of the members here shared my goal of maintaining a healthy body fat level and eating as smartly as possible, and that seems less accurate now as a greater proportion now have goals of building muscle mass to near competitive bodybuilder levels rather than simply optimal health levels.
I haven't noticed that trend. Or perhaps I've seen it from a different perspective. Here's what I see from my own experience...

I believe it's a very, very small portion of the population who comes to JSF with the goal of obtaining optimal health levels. Quite simply, they care about health only where fat loss is concerned. The lion's share of people venturing into these forums are completely ignorant - of fitness, that is. They come here with societal stigmas, continually repeated media programming, and stereotypes that they still believe and have never been given reason to debunk or question those things until one day they find themselves buying a pair of pants that has 18" more waistline than they required 15 years ago.

That's usually the wakeup call, or some variant thereof. Please stop me if you think I'm wrong.

And this is where you and I come in.

People come here thinking that fitness equals nutritional deprivation. That fitness means giving up their lives. That they can obtain abdominal muscles by doing 8,000 crunches a day on the Abdominzer machine they just got off late night TV. That they're going to be perpetually sore, tired, hungry, and deprived all in the name of getting into a pants size (or whatever the superficial goal may be) they haven't been able to since college.

They post up ridiculous routines poorly designed to drop body fat. You and I, being in the know, read these and shake our heads. Erudition in the ways of fitness takes time. It requires that they begin to learn, to take initiative, and to get past societal programming. We start that process for them, or we try to. Some learn, others don't. But those who obtain that initial enlightenment are the people who come back, who stay, who grown and change, and who end up learning enough about fitness to choose their goals more wisely.

I think one of the things you're seeing is the influx of new people who wish to mimic what many of us here have done. Many posters have been here, improving and working hard, John included of course, for up to about 2.5 years. Over that time, we've all made monumental gains in our physiques, our attitudes, and our abilities. Some are massive, some are lean, some are strong, some are inspiring... but they all show one thing in common: The average guy can do it if he works hard enough.

Now, we see these nOObs walk in the door, and these guys are thinking... John's done it, so can I! And who'd blame them for thinking that? John did do it. So has 1FastGTX, Escher, Reno_1Ted, KrossSpyder... even I'd like to think I fall among those ranks somewhere of the inspirational and hard working collective that has helped to build this forum and its positive qualities.

So I think what you're seeing is Captain Sedentary!!! Here he comes, from his computer/desk job, his nights at Hooters with his buddies, his one-bag-a-day Doritos habit... and he sees people like us who've lost tons of body fat. He comes blasting through the front door to JSF - and he sees all these miraculous transformations. Many of us speak of how quickly we've lost weight, but not many of us speak of how long it has taken for us to achieve the physiques we have today.

So these guys go straight for programs like SGX. After all, it's the miracle cure, right? It's a neat little package that builds lean mass and drops body fat for anyone who's true to the program. Many of us who've achieved lean, solid physiques have used it to get there and as such, we believe in its abilities. And in my opinion, it's a very, very healthy way to achieve said goal. I've never felt better in my life and I've lived with SGX and my own variant of the program for ... jeez, in August, it'll be two years. John is obviously a great example of the program and its merits. Captain Sedentary just wants what all guys like him want - he wants to take that gut and move it back up to his chest - where it was when he was playing high school sports. He sees how John and many of us did it, so that's what he's going for.

Perhaps I do a bit of a disservice in pointing the finger straight to Swolecat and his programs. Why? Because it's a good way to improve oneself, but it does let n00bs skip that step I went through. That time where I had to learn all I could about fitness. That time where I had to learn to overcome society, its pressures, its stereotypes, and its many other discouraging pitfalls.

Summarizing, I think your frustrations, strange as this may sound, may actually have been created by the awesome collection of impressive transformations in the database that inspires people to get fit. We have the knowledge and we know many of the tricks to altering body composition. We can optimize the path to fitness for them. In doing so, I think at times we may give them a false impression of how many of us got where we are today and this leads many of the new guys who join the forum to think they'll be competitive bodybuilders in no time flat.

What we need to start doing more of is slowing down and asking these people to not just to become fit, but to question why they're getting fit, what their goals are, and how they plan to achieve them. This would be one way to improve the forum and help ground people in a more realistic frame of mind when approaching becoming fit.

That's my $.12, adjusted for inflation.

-R

Perhaps I do a bit of a disservice in pointing the finger straight to Swolecat and his programs. Why? Because it's a good way to improve oneself, but it does let n00bs skip that step I went through. That time where I had to learn all I could about fitness. That time where I had to learn to overcome society, its pressures, its stereotypes, and its many other discouraging pitfalls.





-R
To be honest I dont think the majority of people start with SC. I think they, like myself, start here and learn the basics. I came here, learned diet, proper nutrition, good core exercise, and how to develope good eating patterns.

It wasnt until I had lost about 20lbs on my own and had plateaued out that I got in contact with SwoleCat. I think the majority of people who hit SC up here people who have gone as far as they think they can by themselves and have maybe hit a rut. I cant say for sure, just my opinion.:tu:


And for your last paragraph, the reason Im getting fit is so I dont need to have a double bypass and fight diabetes at the same time when Im 45. Which is the direction I was headed.

Chameleon, I am impressed! You are such a diplomat...hit em with the velvet sledge-hammer! :lol: :tu:

http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/ruinkai/biggrindaisy.gif http://jm.g.free.fr/smileys/smash.gif

As much as I value the input of the women on here (and I do because my gf is not a forum participator but I try to learn as much as I can to help her), I think it's hard to take early posts in this thread denying the "problems" (such as those suggested by steeltrap) from the women that are here without further consideration.

Let's look at this:

The women that are here already like it here so John's continued growth (and what appears to be a general trend towards a desire for more of a "bodybuilder" physique on the forums) will not affect those women negatively (in all likelihood). New women to the forums may be taken more aback by this than someone who walked in earlier in the process.

Also, perception is key. The women who stick around apparently don't perceive the growth as the main focus of the forums (and I don't think that it is) whereas some newer women or just women who have stopped visiting the forums may see it that way. Also, like was mentioned earlier, many women may have gotten what they need to get on track and decided to move on.

It's one of the reasons I have trouble with review sites online - there are those that are really happy - they write reviews. There are those that are really unhappy - they write reviews. There are a HUGE number of people that are satisfied and don't need to think more about it. They don't write reviews and simply move on with their lives.

I think this applies here (for both men and women) as well. People that feel that they have more to gain will stick around whereas people that are satisfied with their knowledge acquired often won't because their lives don't revolve around fitness, but rather fitness is something to make sure they don't have fat or die. Nutrition is viewed the same. It's not an interest for many people, but rather a necessity.

It's not a reflection on the forums or John or anything else - it's just perception by the visitors.

... more people are trying out SGX.

This means people won't be eating blueberries and grapefruit for breakfast, or yogurt as a mid-day snack.

I'm starting SGX and will be having plenty of blueberries, grapefruit and yogurt on my refeed/cheat day! :tu: