I have this mind numb that refuses to believe it is impossible to target specific body parts to lose fat from. If you want better glutes, work the glutes, if you want better abs, work the abs.

Has anyone ever PROVED that you can't spot reduce? Take two people with the same weight and measurements (twins, preferably), put one on a low fat diet and doing 1000 bicep curls a week, put the other on a low fat diet and doing 1000 crunches a week. After a week, examine the biceps and abs. What do you see?

From John's FAQ:
It's important to understand that all the crunches in the world won't make your abs show. A nice 6-pack is more dependent on diet than anything you are doing in the gym. The only way to do get your abs showing is to reduce your overall body fat percentage.

Why, then, does he do 260 exercises for his abs, 3 times a week?

I can't remember where I read it, but recently I read that it was completely unnecessary to work abs at all, because the muscles will get a workout just by supporting the body in the other work that it does.

On a related note, I've got a problem with my thighs. If I can believe the measurements I took a month ago as compared to yesterday, they are one of the areas that has INCREASED. Will they ever get smaller or am I doomed to a life with thunder thighs?

People don't work their abs in order to reduce fat, they work their abs to make them bigger just like any other muscle.

The bigger they are, the more they'll show through if you have little fat over them. If you have fat over them, then your gut will just poke out more.

Never seen a study done on it because its pretty much just accepted knowledge.

It has to be one of the biggest myths in the excersizing world. Everyone ive spoke to says they do situps to get a fat free flat stomach and i tell them it doesnt work like that. I see overweight people doing 1000 situps and think, whats the point? They should be running the fat off there stomach, not increasing the size of there abs.

Your body doesnt store fat evenly though does it? You dont have an even layer of fat all over, you have deposits. Some people carry it on there ass, others on there thighs, others on there tummy. And running doesnt burn fat off evenly either. At first your legs may lose weight, then your face, ten your chest... whatever. Regardless of doing excersizes that concentrate on that area. A friend of mine has fat arms and she has been doing arm excersizes for months now and still has them. Ive told her to concentrate on dieting and CV, but she wont have it. Its just hard to accept. I store fat on my abs and did loads of crunches for years. No fatloss on my stomach. Now ive started a diet, upped my cv to include a morning workout and my abs are blasting through. And im doing less crunches. Simple.

With regards your thighs, like i said, your body has an order for areas to burn fat off from, so you will have to wait for all your other deposits to go before your body turns to your legs. Besides which, i quite like big strong thighs. lol ;)

I think the reason why we lift weight and do crunches is to make the definition more pronounced, but the impact isn't as great as losing fat. Overweight and obese individuals apparently have a ton of muscle underneath all of their fat mass because it's like they are carrying a 100+ lb cement bag with them everywhere they go! But you can't see the muscle definition because it's smothered with the fat layer on top.

When you remove some of that fat, there is a huge improvement in the definition of the muscles. To boost that effect, you try to make the muscles even bigger so you lift weights and do crunches.

Here is a silly example: Freshman year of college I once hid under the covers of my friend's bed while she left the room to brush her teeth. She had this huge down comforter and about 10 pillows, so she didn't notice that I was under there when she came back. Then she got into bed and I scared the hell :eek: out of her, but that isn't the point. The point is that I think a football player could have hidden under that huge comforter and all her pillows and she still wouldn't have noticed. But if she had had a thin quilt, then it would be easy to spot the pranskter, even if it were only a skinny midget.

So if your body if full of "pillows" and "down," it's much more effective to clear them off first if you want to see your muscles. You can add bulk, "football players," if you want to increase the contrast, but it will still be hard to see them unless they are under a thin "quilt."


Okay, enough silliness. I've got a midterm to study for! Ack!

Nice analogy! :tucool:

We all know that muscle burns fat - I have a gut, but I am still working my abs (along with everything else, plus diet) in order to build muscle there in hopes that it will burn fat. Is this a mistake? Should I lay off the abs, and just do arms, back, and legs?? Wow, this is getting frustrating. :mad:

Here is a silly example: Freshman year of college I once hid under the covers of my friend's bed while she left the room to brush her teeth. She had this huge down comforter and about 10 pillows, so she didn't notice that I was under there when she came back. Then she got into bed and I scared the hell :eek: out of her, but that isn't the point.

oooooooooooo!

Then what happened?? :d_rolleye

We all know that muscle burns fat - I have a gut, but I am still working my abs (along with everything else, plus diet) in order to build muscle there in hopes that it will burn fat. Is this a mistake? Should I lay off the abs, and just do arms, back, and legs?? Wow, this is getting frustrating. :mad:

Keep on keepin' on.....

Yeah, I guess technically you'd get more bang for the buck working a larger muscle. (i.e. a 5% gain in a leg muscle would create more muscle than a 5% gain in your abs), but we all want better overall health and besides, who wants to look like a stick with super muscular legs.

The theory is that eveything you work is building muscle in a balanced way, and together as a whole, it'll help you reach your goal.

Like all the posts before mine, you can't spot reduce, but you CAN spot tune up your muscles in anticipation for that day when your BF is much lower and the muscle beneath is looooking goood ! :gl:

As much as science and articles and everything else are bandied about, I tend to place more weight on real world. What I mean is this - if I put a client on x diet and all of the literature says it is the worse diet in the world, but my client loses weight and their health improves - am I going to stop the diet because of what some paper says, or rejoice in their results and stick with what is working?

To that end, I have trained clients who worked abs 3, 4, 5, 6 times a week but refused to tighten down on their nutrition and ended up frustrated at not seeing their abs. On the other hand, I have had clients who never worked their abs a single time but stuck with their nutrition 100% and look SHREDDED.

Therefore, I have found that you can exercise all you want - it's great for health, etc, but when it comes down to body parts, nutrition manipulations is the greatest factor contributing to fat loss and your body has its own mind made up with what goes first.

In fact, I have observed something consistent that has led to a theory of mine, that you lose fat farthest from your center of gravity first. This is why for men, the love handles are stubborn, but women have trouble lower down with saddlebags/thighs - because their center of gravity is lower so that is the last to go. Just a theory of mine, but it is fairly consistent in most of my clients.

I am huge fan of working muscles to gain size and show more definition, but since science and personal experience demonstrate that it is FAR EASIER to gain muscle when you are lean than when you are carrying extra body fat, I always coach others to lean down FIRST and then build muscle. Some people have legitimate reasons for bulking first, but 9 times out of 10 it is a copout because people just don't want to be strict with their nutrition so they sell out by saying, "Um, ahhh, um, I'm going to go on a BULKING phase" (Read: stop keeping track of my food intake and splurge more often and try to feel good a bout it).

As for your thighs - they are not going to grow ad nauseum or else there would be tons of successful female bodybuilders. Most people gain a bit of muscle when they begin any program, then the gains taper off and become harder and harder. Natural bodybuilders are happy to put on 1 - 3 pounds of quality muscle in a YEAR despite all the fun 10 pounds in 2 weeks stuff you read by people trying to sell their magic bullet supplements.

So, you main gain a little there, but then as you lose, your body may decide your thighs are the LAST place to lose fat. To date, no one has successfully figured out how to change that genetic formula, so just a bit of patience and persistence and you'll start to lose the fat their and gain the definition you want, and lose the "thunder thighs" (hey, your words, not mine!)

Jeremy

I know that I have a lot of fat to lose still before any resemblance of abs show up (I am currently at 20.96% bf), and I know that I am a long way away from any kind of bulking program. I guess I will continue to do abs, just to have a little more muscle to use against my fat. Hopefully it will all pay off eventually (even though it seems it just ain't happening). Thanks for the advice everyone.

Everything I've been reading, and I think you guys will agree, clearly contradicts the "myth" that one shouldn't weight train while losing fat. So if one should do resistance training for muscles, doesn't it stand to reason that an overweight person should do the crunches? Abs are muscles, too.

I think the only reason that some people do them more or less than other muscles is because of the aesthetic focus our society puts on it at this time. A couple of generations ago, you didn't see a lot of six packs. Broad shoulders were more desired. Now, thin dudes with six and eight packs, cut and bumpy, are more popular.

I have a long ways to go to lose the gut, but I'm still gonna do my crunches- no more and no less than other muscle groups, and not necessarily because I want them to be more defined when the weight does come off, but to actually assist in the weight loss process.

Exactly my point jeremy! Your body chooses where to burn fat off and in what order to burn your deposits, it is not dictated by which part of your body you excersize.

[QUOTE=take5]Everything I've been reading, and I think you guys will agree, clearly contradicts the "myth" that one shouldn't weight train while losing fat.

IQUOTE]

Definatley weight train during fatloss. But concentrate on loosing the fat before you concentrate on bulking up. I believe you can do both to some extent, but that if bulking is ur focus, you will gain some fat. Trim the fat off, get those muscles visiable, then build them up when u can see them. And hey, keep doing those situps, there good for getting the heart going and if they make u feel positive, then it can only be a good thing ! :tucool:

Why, then, does he do 260 exercises for his abs, 3 times a week?Simple: because my body fat is low enough that you can actually SEE my abs. Without a proper diet and low body fat all the ab work in the world will never show. Once they do show (and even before they show), you can certainly work to make them bigger and stronger, and that's why I hit them. Ab work alone will not make your abs show, or reduce the fat in that area. Not gonna happen.

ab work wont make them show on a person with high bodyfat %, but for a person with Johns BF % level, the more targeted the ab work, along with potentially adding weighted resistance to the ab work, will help create deeper, thicker abs that resemble raviolis.