Well I'm almost done my 10lbs of weight gainer that I bought a few months ago, and now I figure it's time to add some new thing's to my supplement list. After see'ing all your guys posts saying you're taking flax oil, fish oil and sesamin and such I don't really know much about these and there affects. But I'm trying to read up as fast as possible.

Well anyway I would appreciate opinions on what to buy next to help me further bulk up, results are coming but I'd like to help speed up the process however I can. I eat around 2600 calories a day, give or take some days I eat more and some days I eat my maintenance level (1708 says the calc I used) 5'9, 145 lbs, 20 years old. I only eat maintenanc some days because i feel really shitty and just can't eat, but i guess i shouldn't use any excuses :lol:

Currently taking:
- Twinlab Super Gainers Fuel (I only take 1 scoop in 500ml of milk, rather then the recomended 4 scoops daily, because well, it has massive amounts of a lot of thing's and i'm a fairly small person)

- Twinlab Creatine Fuel Stack (I don't take this everyday, more like every two days, and even then I take half the recomended dosage)

- Two 500mg Vitamin C pills per day

- AST Multi Pro32X Multivitamins (not sure if these are time release, it doesn't say so on the bottle which makes me think it isn't, should I look intop buying a new brand?)

If anyone knows of any changes I should make, or addon supplements I'd really appreciate it, I am also considering purchasing some NO-xplode, reading reviews right now to decide wether the side affects some people get are worth the gains.

Much appreciated, and thanks in advance.

If you want the best results and to save some money give our Maximum Mass stack a try.

www.atlargenutrition.com

The essentials are just a good multivitamin, protein, creatine (which it seems you have -- what is the dosage of that product?), and Essential Fatty Acids (I personally recommend fish oil if possible, I take 6-8g a day).

Other than that, it's simply a matter of personal preference and how much money you have. Keep in mind, though, that nothing will make up for poor diet or training. Before you invest in anything beyond what I've listed above, I'd make sure your diet and exercise are as optimized as you can get them.

That being said, there are a variety of things that are great to take on a bulking cycle:

Weight Gainers/MRP's: While there are some good ones out there (like At Large Nutrition's Opticen), I honestly think you're better off just making your own out of protein powder, oats, and good fats. It's a lot healthier and you can better customize the nutritional profile of what you take in.

BCAA's: (Branched Chain Amino Acids) These help immeasurably in terms of workout energy as well as muscle recovery. You'll get a benefit out of as little as 5g before and after workout, but more is better. I take 5g right when I wake up, 10g pre-workout, and 10g after (plenty of people take even more than that). Buy in bulk from Bulk Nutrition.com to get the best deal. I seriously can't recommend BCAA's enough.

Alpha-Lipoic-Acid (ALA): Great antioxidant. It also aids in both muscle gain and fat loss by helping to cram more glucose into muscle cells as opposed to adipose tissue. Great to take in the morning, post-workout, and with higher-carbohydrate meals (also right before bed if cutting). If you're taking regular ALA (which is half r-ala and half s-ala) then I'd take about 1200mg a day. With pure R-ala or K-r-ala you can get away with less. I use Glucophase XR from Designer Supplements which contains 250mg of K-R-ALA along with Quercetin and D-Biotin. I take 3 per day whether cutting or bulking, I just change when I take them depending on my goals.

Sesamin: This is more of a cutting supplement as it boosts fat oxidation, but it can be employed at a reduced dosage to help avoid fat gain while bulking. If you're very ectomorphic (you said you're a small guy) and muscle gain tends to be more difficult for you than losing weight I wouldn't bother with this. As a big ole' endomorph I've found it incredibly useful, but I also get fat just walking near food.

NO Products (Nitric Oxide): Do a search here or on bodybuilding.com on Nitric Oxide and you'll pull up some great info. In short, boosting NO not only results in a really great "pump" when you workout, but helps dilate blood vessels and shove nutrients into your cells. There are a lot of NO boosters around (Nitrix, NO-Xplode, White Blood, etc.), but the main ingredient in all of them is the amino acid Arginine, either in free-form (L-Arginine) or in some more absorbant bonded form (usually Arginine Alpha Keto Glutarate). If this interests you I'd suggest just getting some bulk Arginine AKG from Bulk Nutrition and do 3g before and after workout, possibly with the addition of 1.5g of Ornithine (or OAKG) as it acts as an Arginine precursor.

NOXplode is okay. I like it. Looks like there may be better alternatives; I'll have a review of one up here on JSF soon probably.

If you want a NO product then I recommend NOX3 by Universal Nutrition. I've used several NO/Arginine products (NOX3, BSN Nitrix, IDS, some others) and this is my favorite.

You have to be consistent. Don't make excuses. Don't eat at maintenance. Go snack on some steel cut oats right now if you're low in calories today. Pop the can open and start eating. Grab some tuna and eat it out of the can too.

Eat steak. Today, tomorrow, and the next day.

Did I mention oats?

Bulking is easy. I miss it. :cry:

I'll help you replace everything in your plan now...

Twinlab Super Gainers Fuel
Stop this. Buy Opticen or Nitrean (Opticen will have more cals/carbs/protein, but I like the taste of Nitrean better) by AtLarge Nutrition. Buy some oats. Put the oats in a blender and grind them up, then put the Nitrean/Opticen in there, then put milk in there. That's your PRO/CARB Weight Gainer Shake.

Now comes your PRO/FAT Weight Gainer Shake: Nitrean, Water, Natty Peanut Butter, and Heavy Whipping Cream. I also like to add eggs and egg whites to this shake (yeah I eat them raw), but that's up to you; I know a lot of people are nervous about eating raw eggs.

If you don't care about separating fats/carbs (many don't, especially during a bulk, I personally do), you have even more alternatives to make even bigger high calorie shakes - fruit, oats, peanut butter, whipping cream, Nitrean, you can mix it all.

Heck you can take Muscle Milk (which I don't use because of the type of protein and because of the big mix of fat/carbs, but it tastes great), put milk in it, put oats and natty peanut butter and heavy whipping cream in it, and you have a VERY calorie dense weight gainer shake. :)

Twinlab Creatine Fuel Stack
Creatine only? I don't know what "Creatine Fuel Stack" is, but I have creatine recommendations. Get a pure monohydrate, probably AtLarge's (though I've never used it so I cannot say how good it is). I would start with something like this instead any CEE or CEM products. AST's Micronized Creatine Monohydrate is one I've used many, many, many times with success. I recommend it too. Creatine mono, assuming you're not loading, just use the recommended serving post workout along with protein, dextrose, and BCAA powder.

If you want to get more fancy or feel you may be a monohydrate nonresponder, pick up Omega's Cre-Ethyl Thunder. I like this product myself. It's also capsule form which is very convienent (I drink too many shakes during the day). If you go this route take all 8 pills preworkout, IMHO.

Two 500mg Vitamin C pills per day
What brand? I like NOW for a lot of my vitamins, but there are many good ones out there.

AST Multi Pro32X Multivitamins
I think these multis are very good actually. I recently switched from this multi to AtLarge's multi, and I think the AtLarge is working just fine for me. (It's difficult to judge the effectiveness of a multi, but I have noticed nothing out of the ordinary since switching to ALN's Multi Plus a few months ago - everything is going well.)

I've used several over the years - ALN, AST, Universal Animal Pak (not bad but expensive), Beverly's Paks (very good but also expensive), Mega Men (yeah yeah), and some other generic ones.

Many "weight-gainers" should really be re-labelled Fat Gainers.

Eat well, if your nutrition is good, little to no supplementation other than post workout whey is really required.

For the most part, I'd agree with Glaive's list: multivitamin, whey, creatine, EFA's (use fish oils, don't use a 3-6-9 supp while 6 is essential, you don't have to look hard for that one especially if you enjoy nuts.)

For the rest....potatos, sweet potatos, brown rice, barly, whole-grain pasta, legumes etc....
Don't neglect veggies, broccoli, spinach, brussel sprouts, green beans etc...

I am curious, why do you consider Monohydrate Creatine to be essential?

Eat well, if your nutrition is good, little to no supplementation other than post workout whey is really required.

True. The only thing I would add is "if your nutrition and routine are good"...you don't need supps. Food is the most anabolic substance there is. Eat it. If you don't have the appetite, it's prolly your routine. Add in more heavy compound movements, and you'll be slugging away food like a grizzly for the winter. In the old days, all peeps had was protein powder, liver tabs, brewers yeast, and a multi...and still got built like Grimek, Park, Pearl...strong like Hepburn, Ray, Todd...anyhoo, your dollars - spend 'em as ya like....

I am curious, why do you consider Monohydrate Creatine to be essential?

Maybe not so much essential as it is proven quantity. Time and time again it's well documented as a benefit in sports supplementation. You simply can't eat enough beef to equal what you can get through creatine supplementation and the benefits are well-researched and well-documented over several decades.

So it's not like taking a crap shoot as it is with many supps and their purported manufacturer claims in lieu of any research.


However, creatine works for many but not all and quality can be a factor. Some are non-responders. Newer creatines have promise but the jury's out, it's still hit and miss with CEE (more so than mono).

Creatine won't build you muscle, but it (probably) will enhance your performance and recovery so that you can build more muscle.

Whoa, much bigger turn out then expect for replies, I appreciate it very much for all the advice.

Chris Mason: Those seem very interesting, I didn't know you could purchase packs that are put together already because they compliment one another. Just a few questions though because I'm considering purchasing this package, it looks very yummy...

- Opticen and Nitrean are both powders that needed to be mixed into a shake correct? Are they meant to be taken at the same time? And can they be mixed together?

- ETS, is it a powder aswell in capsule form right? Can it also be mixed in with the above shake? And say I purchased chocolate as the flavor, does this include ETS aswell?

- Creatine Monohydrate, I know this doesn't come flavored :lol: But is it safe to mix this in with the shake aswell? It's just I don't like having to mix up 532551 thing's during the day and washing my one shaker bottle over and over :p Is it safe to make a huge shake which includes all of these products together, mixed with say milk?

Glaive: Thanks for all the info. My diet is decent at the moment, I can not say it's perfect without being a liar. But it is MUCH MUCH better then what I was eating previous to before I started working out, which was in November. Your advice on BCAA's seems good, I'll have to consider finding me some of those. The dosage of my twinlab creatine duel is 6 capsules daily, which includes 5000mg creatine monohydrate/2000mg L-Glutamine/200mg Taurine. It does not say anything about a loading phase on the bottle.

1FastGTX You recomend NOX3 over Noxplode, so I might aswell try purchasing that before Noxplode, I have nothing to lose and all your posts I've seen around always make sense.

Steel cut oats eh? I've never seen anyone eat them before but I've heard good thing's. I'll have to look them up, Right now I just pour me a bowl of peanuts and start cracking those babies open as a snack, haha.

I like your shake mixing advice, you said buy nitrean or opticen, what if I have both that come with the Mass stack offered at atlarge, should these be both taken at the same time, or are you suppose to wait until one bottle runs out before starting the next? It seems you prefer Nitrean more because you mentioned it over opticen, so im wondering why they add opticen in the stack if Nitrean is basicly the same.

For the "creatine fuel stack" I guess it's only meant to be called Creatine Fuel, and is part of a stack from twinlab, but I just purchased the bottle alone I suppose. For the vitamin C I didn't think brand really mattered, I figure 500mg of Vit C is the same as 500mg of Vit C from another company. It's from "Holista" though.

Thanks Gordo and Cajunman for the advice aswell as everyone else. Right now I'm considering just going with the mass stack from Atlarge for my next purchase just to keep it simple for me. All this information, I never knew bodybuilding would be more about the science then anything else.

I'm going to answer just what you directed to me; Chris Mason should be along soon but if not I hightly suggest you post your questions for him in the At Large Nutrition Official Review Thread.
1FastGTX You recomend NOX3 over Noxplode, so I might aswell try purchasing that before Noxplode, I have nothing to lose and all your posts I've seen around always make sense.
NOXplode contains arginine but it does more than most NO products. It's more of a preworkout drink than a straight-up NO product.

Steel cut oats eh? I've never seen anyone eat them before but I've heard good thing's. I'll have to look them up, Right now I just pour me a bowl of peanuts and start cracking those babies open as a snack, haha.
Peanuts are very, very good too! But you'll be getting a lot more complex carbs from the steel-cut oats. :)

I like your shake mixing advice, you said buy nitrean or opticen, what if I have both that come with the Mass stack offered at atlarge, should these be both taken at the same time, or are you suppose to wait until one bottle runs out before starting the next? It seems you prefer Nitrean more because you mentioned it over opticen, so im wondering why they add opticen in the stack if Nitrean is basicly the same.
Opticen is fine; it's a very good product actually. I just prefer a straight protein powder as opposed to something with carbs in it. I like to add my own carbs like oats or fruit.

You would use each one (Nitrean and Opticen) at different times of the day. Nitrean when you want just protein, Opticen when you want more carbs. Think of Nitrean as a protein powder, and Opticen as a meal replacement.

I just like making my own meal replacements with Nitrean. But having Opticen does make things more convienent, and it's nice to have a bit of a different flavor once in a while (Opticen is much more thick, almost like a pudding unless you use more water/milk).

For the "creatine fuel stack" I guess it's only meant to be called Creatine Fuel, and is part of a stack from twinlab, but I just purchased the bottle alone I suppose. For the vitamin C I didn't think brand really mattered, I figure 500mg of Vit C is the same as 500mg of Vit C from another company. It's from "Holista" though.
Twinlab is okay. You should finish that bottle by all means, but then you should try something new when you're done, in my opinion. Unless it works very well, in which case I say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." I would probably buy a different vitamin C if you got it at the grocery store. :) I don't know how good that vitamin you got is, never heard of Abercrombie Vitamins or Hollister Vitamins or whatever you said they are, but when you're out of them start searching for a good, reputable company. Personally I really like NOW Sports, but there are many, many others.

An excellent post! Just a couple of questions:

Stop this. Buy Opticen or Nitrean (Opticen will have more cals/carbs/protein, but I like the taste of Nitrean better) by AtLarge Nutrition. Buy some oats. Put the oats in a blender and grind them up, then put the Nitrean/Opticen in there, then put milk in there. That's your PRO/CARB Weight Gainer Shake.

There wouldn't be a problem with adding dextrose and creatine to your nitrean/oats/milk and consuming the concoction as your PWO shake, would there?

Now comes your PRO/FAT Weight Gainer Shake: Nitrean, Water, Natty Peanut Butter, and Heavy Whipping Cream. I also like to add eggs and egg whites to this shake (yeah I eat them raw), but that's up to you; I know a lot of people are nervous about eating raw eggs.

Aside from the potential taste, substituting extra virgin olive oil for the heavy whipping cream would be fine, right?

There wouldn't be a problem with adding dextrose and creatine to your nitrean/oats/milk and consuming the concoction as your PWO shake, would there?
No that's fine, I personally would not use milk PWO but many people do.

My PWO shake looks like this now: Nitrean, dextrose, maltodextrin, BCAA, water. I would do creatine mono at this point too if I was using it, but I'm using CEE/CEM at the moment.

Some also may want to do: Nitrean, oats (raw, ground), water.

Aside from the potential taste, substituting extra virgin olive oil for the heavy whipping cream would be fine, right?
I think so, but I don't know for sure. I don't typically use olive oil except when cooking and I don't know much about it. Sorry.

I do use flax seed oil in my shakes a lot.

From what I remember doordude42 uses an oil in his shakes too, and not flax. I can't remember which one he uses though. Anyway he might have better advice here.

Great advice once again. And the reason why I and many other's use milk PWO is ebcause well, what else to mix chocolate flavored powder with? chocolate water? haha that just seems very strange to me, I cna't imagine how it would taste.

Great advice once again. And the reason why I and many other's use milk PWO is ebcause well, what else to mix chocolate flavored powder with? chocolate water? haha that just seems very strange to me, I cna't imagine how it would taste.
Back when I used Optimum, Myoplex, etc. I felt the same way. But if you experiment around you may find a powder you like mixed with water. Obviously, if you look at my avatar, I did. :lol: