Today I watched the chest workout video of Milos Sarcev right before I went to the gym. I've been reading quite a bit about the importance of using proper technique when lifting and also the Max-OT articles that emphasize loose technique or whatever term they use. Aside from reading the basic instructions to performing an exercise, and as much I hate to admit it, I didnt concentrate on anything else (bad of me I know) besides performing the exercise as instructed on whatever I read (usually from bodybuilding.com). Seeing as how I'm kind of stuck at a certain weight right now, I figured its time to start improving my technique. For now, I think I'm ignoring Max-OTs advice not to use strict technique, mainly because I'm a martial artist and I'm used to emphasizing technique on everything, which baffles me why I never applied that train of thought to my lifting.

This is what my typical bench press workout was up to last week:

1 x 10 @ 115 warmup
1 x 7 @ 135 warmup (no where near failure at this point)
2 x 7 @185
1 x 5 @ 205
1 x 2 @ 225 at this point im done with the bench, couple months ago my 1 rep max was 235, but a month of pure slackin and a week of sicknes brought me back down to 215 and now I've worked back to 225

Now, today, I decided to follow as much of the proper technique from the video that I could remember, and after watching it again, I'm pretty certain I did it right, and this is what happened.

I started warming up with an easy set using dumbbells. Afterwards, I went to the barbell bench press and heres what happened:

1 x 8 @ 135
2 x 5 @ 135
1 x 3 @ 155 at this point I was close to muscle failure, I was done with the bench press.

So it got me really wondering, I put the 135 on there thinking it was going to be my usual warmup, but that weight ended up being the actual workout. Is it that my technique was so horrible that fixing it made me drop down 70lbs? I went in knowing I was going to lower some of the weight, except I was expecting about 20-30lb drop, not 70.

Here is where the mixed feelings about the tips of Milos Sarcev come in. When I was done with the bench, my chest was tired but I didnt feel "pumped." My chest just didnt feel the same way it does when I'm done benching 225, eventhough it was feeling tired. I kept on doing the rest of my workout, following good technique on everything, in most instances lowering the weight as significantly as I had to with the bench press. The thing is, when I was done with my usual workout, eventhough my chest was feeling tired and worked, again, it didnt feel the same way it does with the heavier weight, I felt the same way I feel when I know it wasnt a good workout, eventhough I know today I was working hard. Because of that feeling, I ended up doing a couple extra exercises to try and see if I could get that same feeling then. Just curious what you guys thought about this, because its weird, I know I worked hard, because my chest just couldnt do more if my life depended on it, but yet I feel like I gained nothing, just as if I had slacked.

The way Milo advocates is a combination of techniques that help isolate the chest. It isn't proper form for strength-based bench press training. It's good form for chest mass-based bench press training.

As a martial artist, you may receive more benefit (in your skills as a MAist) from strength based techniques.

At this time, I'd like to gain some mass on my upper body, so youre saying for that, Milos techniques are good? Aside from the obvious aesthetic reasons, more mass on my upper body I think will help me break through the power breaking plateau I have hit. Since power breaking envolves more proper technique executed with speed and mass behind it and not so much brute strength.

At this time, I'd like to gain some mass on my upper body, so youre saying for that, Milos techniques are good?Yes.

max ot is a bodybuilding program but at the same time the guys at ast always talk about upping the weight and stuff and that it also gives you a lot of strength. so which technique would be ideal for max-ot?

1fastgtx and I just had this discussion on form and we came to the conclusion somehow that the right balance between the two would be best...

what do you think of this chicanerous?

For Max-OT, I would use the form they proscribe. For regular training, I would find that right balance. At certain points in my training, I would revert to a very strict form. It all depends on context.

At this time, I'd like to gain some mass on my upper body, so youre saying for that, Milos techniques are good? Aside from the obvious aesthetic reasons, more mass on my upper body I think will help me break through the power breaking plateau I have hit. Since power breaking envolves more proper technique executed with speed and mass behind it and not so much brute strength.

Remember that Milos's techniques are not designed to help you increase your bench press -- they are designed to give you a bigger chest. So if you want to add size to your chest, Milos is the way to go...but if you are interested in breaking strength plateaus and getting your poundage up there, then Milos's method is not one you should use.

It is odd because when you use Milos' techniques you should actually have a bigger pump because of all the contracting and squeeeeezing you do with the chest while lifting. I wouldn't worry about the amount of weight but rather that you feel it in the actual chest.

You should have "felt it" more with Milos' techniques, since it was slower and more controlled. But who cares about "feeling it?" I just want my chest to be bigger; I don't care about the pump or the soreness or feeling it during the workout.

When I do things the Milos way I feel it a lot! It feels fantastic, my chest pumps up huge!

But my muscles don't grow.

I know everyone is different, but that's what those techniques and speeds do for me -- nothing. And that's the whole point - some guys blow up from fast reps, explosive reps, etc. Some do much better with much more control, slower speed, etc. Get in the gym and find out what works best for you.

Menaztricks..At the beginning of the video (one of them) Sarcev describes how the training is for mass and that he has seen guys in the gym lifting greater weights yet a lot of those guys had no muscle mass. He is looking at it from a competition/show viewpoint. He also says that Marcelo (his demo partner) is actually stronger in the chest than he is (but to look at them you wouldn't think the margin was too big).

The segment is not called "How to Improve Your Bench Max".

It is referred to as a Chest Training video.

In order to get the best of all worlds maybe you might want to combine techniques for bench on different days in different workouts.

Sounds like it might have been working for you on a certain level as some muscles appear to be not as strong as they could be.

I agree with Heavy, mix it up....but try it in cycles.....do a cycle of hypertrophy style exercises and rep ranges, followed by a strength cycle.

Keeps things interesting and actually creates a program with a definitive timeline.

This morning, I am pretty sore, about as much or more than if I had done my old workout. So I'm going to start cycles like it was suggested. How long should each cycle be?

I was looking to increase my bench because I was still under the impression of more weight = more mass. Now that I am reminded that Milo does specify its a chest workout video, I think I just completely forgot that when I was at the gym.

When I first watched the video, I found it interesting how he talks about the two guys benching, one with the big chest using little weight, and the one with no chest using a ton of weight. I have noticed that too on numerous ocassions and have always wondered why. One guy i particular I always notice, because he benches something like 300lbs and has no chest at all, he has more of the doughboy body, he is everything I dont want to look like. I always figured it was genetics. Now that I know better, I'm not going to emphasize the weight I use. It is going to kind of suck when a friend is lifting twice as much as me, but I'll just let my ego take the blow for the sake of my goals.

This morning, I am pretty sore, about as much or more than if I had done my old workout. So I'm going to start cycles like it was suggested. How long should each cycle be?

I was looking to increase my bench because I was still under the impression of more weight = more mass. Now that I am reminded that Milo does specify its a chest workout video, I think I just completely forgot that when I was at the gym.

When I first watched the video, I found it interesting how he talks about the two guys benching, one with the big chest using little weight, and the one with no chest using a ton of weight. I have noticed that too on numerous ocassions and have always wondered why. One guy i particular I always notice, because he benches something like 300lbs and has no chest at all, he has more of the doughboy body, he is everything I dont want to look like. I always figured it was genetics. Now that I know better, I'm not going to emphasize the weight I use. It is going to kind of suck when a friend is lifting twice as much as me, but I'll just let my ego take the blow for the sake of my goals.

If you're going to train using Milos principles, then you shouldn't be doing MAX-OT. You might want to consider a different program, or design your own.

If you're going to continue to follow MAX-OT, then use MAX-OT principles. I would say do MAX-OT for a month or two, then switch up your routine and try something completely different. Then would be a good time to start training like Milos for a couple weeks.

I personally find any chest exercise to be more technical than most others if only for the reason that its not obvious when you're using your chest muscles, or to what degree they're being used. Because of the heavy use of triceps/delts involved in the push, its very easy to go from isolating the chest to overworking your stabilizers. So i do agree with Milos and i'm inclined to think you will find results with your adjusted routine.

I too used to try powering up heavy weights and saw little development in my chest but recently found that using a technique close to what Milos was talking about helped a lot. Give it time.

As for the reduced feeling of work in your chest. I honestly don't know what to say except it could be an illusion. Keep in mind that when you're lifing over 200 pounds, you ARE using your stabilizers...heavily. They are being worked, and fatigued. The chest muscles are used as well... no doubt, but probably not very efficiently. So the illusion could lie in the fact that you will feel a tremendous overall soreness/pump from your shoulders, through to the chest. And your brain may be kind of grouping the stimulus/soreness as if its in the same general area (afterall the shoulders and chest do cross-over).

That's only a theory but i think, regardless, you are going into the right direction.

Steve

If you are lucky enough to have hammer-strength, medex, or Nautilus chest machines, use them they will work the pecs in a more isolated mode by design. Trying to eliminate the other muscles that some refer to as stabilizers. Remember, you will work the deltoids, triceps, lats, and etc. when their time comes due. Notice how many pro BBs use machines. I list these machines because I believe they are exceptional.

If you want to increase body strength or become a power-lifter, this might not help you, though strength will be increased you might not win any lifting contest.

Also, don't rely on just the flat bench. Declines and 15 degree inclines can place more of the target on chest (imo) and are well worth checking out from time to time, swapping the flat bench out of the routine entirely. If you haven't done variations in a while, it might kick start things again.