After reading some positive things here about Glutamine, I decided to give it a shot. Sorry if I missed it elsewhere, but I would like recommendations as to how much someone like me should take, and when.

What I got: Body Fortress 100% pure Glutamine powder, recommended serving 1 teaspoon/4.5 grams, twice daily
Me: 45, 256 lbs, cutting, (of course) HIIT and fasted LISS almost daily, currently on a reduced lifting program because I'm nursing a mildly injured rotator cuff (Dr. gave me a shot of cortisone today, did not recommend physical therapy, said to ease back into my normal routine in a week)

OK, I see the 2 times per day on the label, but I suspect someone here has a more specific recommendation.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Take it right after your workout. I think the "twice a day" is too much if your already taking whey supps etc.

Free-form L-Glutamine has strong anti-catabolic effects so take it when it will do the most good....right after strenuous exercise when your Cortisol is elevated.

Thanks Hevy. Take it after cardio as well as lifting sessions?

You will get differing views on this. Do a search in the forums over at bodybuilding.com and you can find a ton of great info on Glutamine, including some very heated debates.

Simply put, there is no scientific proof (at least not that I've ever been able to find) that orally administered Glutamine has any particular benefit for athletes. Most studies that show a benefit are giving large doses intravenously to seriously injured hospital patients, usually burn victims.

When free-form Glutamine (the L-Glutamine powder you commonly find) is ingested, very little can even theoretically make it into your muscles since most will just end up in your liver. This is why you'll see bodybuilders taking very large doses of it, often 25-30g per day, as that high of a dosage is necessary for enough to actually get into your muscles to make a difference (again, in theory). Even for those who believe in Glutamine's effectiveness, that level of intake is not exactly cost-effective.

Glutamine peptides may be a better choice as the body approaches uptake of the peptide form differently. Since Kent Nutrition has a pretty cheap price on Glutamine Peptides, I've ordered some to try as an experiment to see what type of results I get on a high dosage of those.

I'm certainly not anti-Glutamine, there just isn't enough hard evidence to justify spending money on it to me (I'm only trying out the peptides because I have some extra cash right now).

If your goal is immune support, large doses of Vitamin C or a variety of other things would be cheaper. If you're taking Glutamine for the more common goal of preserving muscle, I personally think your money would be much better spent on some bulk BCAA powder, since there's far more evidence that they aid directly in recovery and help prevent catabolism.

So
1. There was a study that came out a year or so ago... but I can't dredge up a link...but I did read the study directly myself... so it's onnline somewhere.. where the researchers used isotopes to compare the uptake of L-glutamine and Glutamine peptides. Despite what had been shown in other studies not using isotopes to track them in the blood, these researchers found no difference between the uptakes of the two forms. In fact their numbers had L-Glutamine uptake higher than peptides, though not statisitcally significantly different.

Since peptides taste yucchy, I switched to L-Glutamine based on that study... the analysis was convincing to me.

2. I was wondering if there were any views on taking Glutamine + BCAA's (beverly Int'l) during as opposed to after the weight workout. Beverly (and Mastover) suggested during... i love the effect... it definitely gives me a more pumped feeling... I cannot see a rationale for weightin until after... what am I missing?

You're fine with taking in BCAA's and glut during w/o-take in BCAA's PWO as well (sorry for the hijack guys) and the BCAA's may be in your PWO shake.

I was wondering if there were any views on taking Glutamine + BCAA's (beverly Int'l) during as opposed to after the weight workout. Beverly (and Mastover) suggested during... i love the effect... it definitely gives me a more pumped feeling... I cannot see a rationale for weightin until after... what am I missing?
I've followed a Beverly plan in the past, and Mastover has been a great inspiration to me over the past few years, and has helped me a great deal with getting my supplements dialed in. Quite honestly...I really don't think that you're going to find anybody that is more qualified to answer any questions about how and when to use Beverly products, than Mastover and the wonderful staff at Beverly International. If anything, opinions from others who know nothing about Beverly, may do nothing but cause confusion, and frustration. Personally, from what I know of Mastover, you'ld be hard pressed to find anybody more knowledgable. :nod:

I've followed a Beverly plan in the past, and Mastover has been a great inspiration to me over the past few years, and has helped me a great deal with getting my supplements dialed in. Quite honestly...I really don't think that you're going to find anybody that is more qualified to answer any questions about how and when to use Beverly products, than Mastover and the wonderful staff at Beverly International. If anything, opinions from others who know nothing about Beverly, may do nothing but cause confusion, and frustration. Personally, from what I know of Mastover, you'ld be hard pressed to find anybody more knowledgable. :nod:

Well, Kino knows as much, or MORE than I do about supps. He's just being a little too irrational here. Or wants some money. Ha :D

Realistically, I don't put much faith behind supps (other than protein powders, bcaa's, creatine) if the diet isn't spot on. From personal experience, the greatest amount of success I've had with supplements has always been at around 8 weeks out from a show. At this juncture the diet is super powerful and squeaky clean. My training is progressive and intensity increases from week to week, even though calories are gradually decreasing. This is where I begin to supplement very, very aggressively. And reap all the benefits. Immediately, the effectiveness of quality supps are magnified 10x fold.

When people ask me for supplement advice, I ask them what their diet is like. Nine times out of ten, I usually advise them to take nothing. Including all those stimulant fat burner formulas out there. Not until the nutrition is cleaned up considerably.

Well, regardless of the diet or very carefully crafted counter-evidence the fact remains that during an intense workout you're going to deplete a lot of Glutamine. And the best time to replace it is right after said workout. There may be a bit of advantage to taking it "during" the workout.

Personally I take or drink nothing during a workout as it's harder for the body to process (especially liquids) at that time IMO.

it's harder for the body to process (especially liquids) at that time IMO.

:confused:

Personally I take or drink nothing during a workout as it's harder for the body to process (especially liquids) at that time IMO.

Does this include water? If so, do others normally abstain from liquids during workouts (i.e. should I?) And also, is that cardio as well as weight training?

I drink water during a workout, although usually just between exercises and not between sets. I will from time to time also down another 5g of BCAA's if I feel like I need a little boost.

There are those that sip water or what-have-you during workouts.

There's probably nothing too much wrong with taking a little bit of water or liquid during a workout or cardio.

But if your guzzling same it's a proven fact that the body does not process the liquid very efficiently while involved in lifting.

Personally I find absolutely no advantage in eating or drinking anything during a workout.

But Jimmy Connors used to drink Coke while playing his Wimbledon matches.

And if your doing an extended-time event like a run or a marathon, you're better off hydrating to some extent.

:confused: My typing skills suck...but if I can get up stuff from course material, I will. :D

Perhaps I should have stated that 99 times out of 100 I eat and drink before a workout. (About an hour). And I also have a PWO shake and carbs right after.

Perhaps I should have stated that 99 times out of 100 I eat and drink before a workout. (About an hour). And I also have a PWO shake and carbs right after.

I was more attempting to address the comment below, so that our newer uninformed members didn't become confused between facts and personal opinions or practices

it's a proven fact that the body does not process the liquid very efficiently while involved in lifting

O.K.....in your quote, Kino, the liquid is actually being consumed for the added carbohydrate in it, not for hydration. Due to a pre-workout meal or liquids not being ingested.

My basic point was that there are some on this site who will say " Yes..I drink at least 24oz. of water during a lifting workout" as their mantra of good health. Well it isn't. You body does not process that amount of water well during lifting (absorption).

O.K.....in your quote, Kino, the liquid is actually being consumed for the added carbohydrate in it, not for hydration. Due to a pre-workout meal or liquids not being ingested.

My basic point was that there are some on this site who will say " Yes..I drink at least 24oz. of water during a lifting workout" as their mantra of good health. Well it isn't. You body does not process that amount of water well during lifting (absorption).
Actually...just to make "my quote" clearer...that was from a section discussing fluid intake, as part of a chapter on the Guidelines for Activity less than 90 minutes (including rest periods)...not CARBOHYDRATE INTAKE. (They make me learn this stuff) Going back to your statement "it's a proven fact that the body does not process the liquid very efficiently while involved in lifting"...then what would be the point of ingesting anything in the form of a liquid?
"it's a proven fact that the body does not process the liquid very efficiently while involved in lifting"Kino, the liquid is actually being consumed for the added carbohydrate in it :bang: You're contradicting yourself...

I'm not talking about sucking down 24oz of water while weight training. All I'm asking is, where are these proven facts that countless numbers of trainees (not to mention competitive bodybuilders) are so obviously wasting their time by consuming any nutrients in the form of a liquid during their workout?

Well...actually no...you are contradicting yourself. You're quote states in section one that fluid isn't necessary at all..and in section two the liquid has added carbohydrate in it to replace glucose loss. It implies that the glucose loss/replacement is far and away more important than the liquid it is contained in.

A lot of people do things merely because they think if everybody else is doing it , it must be O.K.

For example, a huge number of people will look at Arnie and think "if I lift weights I can look like him" so they start lifting weights, then they don't get the results so they lift more and more weights with more and more sets and reps.Then they overtrain and then they log in on this site to find out how they screwed up.

And they think "everybody else is doing it so what's wrong with me?".

It does not say in your excerpt that you should drink water. It only says drink a liquid with carbs in it if you had no pre-nutrition, to guard against glucose depletion.

There is empirical evidence to show that voluminous ingestion of water during a workout is not good. A search of this site will pull up a few of them.

And by the way, you can down all the BCAA's and protein you like during your workout but it isn't going to be utilized at that time.
A very simple carbohydrate will on the other hand. But you don't need 16 oz. of water to trigger the carb utilization process.


"Countless others are doing it". It's now about 40 years plus that the debate about whether a sit-up is good for your back has raged on.
There is tons of evidence to show that a regular sit-up is no good for your back. Yet, countless others are doing them. And countless others will swear up and down that they don't affect your back/spine.
The same goes for Plyometrics.

Countless others bought a ticket on the Titanic when they were assured it wouldn't sink. Countless others believed in Jim Jones.
Countless others lived in a hole in the ground called New Orleans on the assumption that the levees would never break.

Standard interrogation procedure:- the "divide and conquer" routine. Get 5 bank robbers in a room, split them up into different rooms and then tell each one that that the other four confessed and said it was him so he'd better tell all or he's gonna take the rap for everybody.

The "herd" mentality is not always good.

I hate to jump into a conversation that clearly doesn't concern me, but I think the original post was about Glutamine use. You guys are all splitting hairs here. While you spend the time debating (non-scientifically, I might add) the nuances of supplements (or was it liquid intake?), you could be eating more food and lifting more weights.

But to get to your side track HevyMetal- please do yourself a favor and really read all the studies at pubmed and other scientific journal sites if you plan to cite evidence to your claims. Also, learn more about general nutrition if you want to hold up your end. I won't spend the time hitting each one of your points since it would take too much time. Instead, eat lots, lift lots, take whatever supplements you want, but I bet you any money, if you start making gains, it was the real food and the real lifting that did the work, not the minutia of carb ingestion and water intake.


Well...actually no...you are contradicting yourself. You're quote states in section one that fluid isn't necessary at all..and in section two the liquid has added carbohydrate in it to replace glucose loss. It implies that the glucose loss/replacement is far and away more important than the liquid it is contained in.

A lot of people do things merely because they think if everybody else is doing it , it must be O.K.

For example, a huge number of people will look at Arnie and think "if I lift weights I can look like him" so they start lifting weights, then they don't get the results so they lift more and more weights with more and more sets and reps.Then they overtrain and then they log in on this site to find out how they screwed up.

And they think "everybody else is doing it so what's wrong with me?".

It does not say in your excerpt that you should drink water. It only says drink a liquid with carbs in it if you had no pre-nutrition, to guard against glucose depletion.

There is empirical evidence to show that voluminous ingestion of water during a workout is not good. A search of this site will pull up a few of them.

And by the way, you can down all the BCAA's and protein you like during your workout but it isn't going to be utilized at that time.
A very simple carbohydrate will on the other hand. But you don't need 16 oz. of water to trigger the carb utilization process.


"Countless others are doing it". It's now about 40 years plus that the debate about whether a sit-up is good for your back has raged on.
There is tons of evidence to show that a regular sit-up is no good for your back. Yet, countless others are doing them. And countless others will swear up and down that they don't affect your back/spine.
The same goes for Plyometrics.

Countless others bought a ticket on the Titanic when they were assured it wouldn't sink. Countless others believed in Jim Jones.
Countless others lived in a hole in the ground called New Orleans on the assumption that the levees would never break.

Standard interrogation procedure:- the "divide and conquer" routine. Get 5 bank robbers in a room, split them up into different rooms and then tell each one that that the other four confessed and said it was him so he'd better tell all or he's gonna take the rap for everybody.

The "herd" mentality is not always good.

Well...actually no...you are contradicting yourself. You're quote states in section one that fluid isn't necessary at all..and in section two the liquid has added carbohydrate in it to replace glucose loss. It implies that the glucose loss/replacement is far and away more important than the liquid it is contained in.

A lot of people do things merely because they think if everybody else is doing it , it must be O.K.

For example, a huge number of people will look at Arnie and think "if I lift weights I can look like him" so they start lifting weights, then they don't get the results so they lift more and more weights with more and more sets and reps.Then they overtrain and then they log in on this site to find out how they screwed up.

And they think "everybody else is doing it so what's wrong with me?".

It does not say in your excerpt that you should drink water. It only says drink a liquid with carbs in it if you had no pre-nutrition, to guard against glucose depletion.

There is empirical evidence to show that voluminous ingestion of water during a workout is not good. A search of this site will pull up a few of them.

And by the way, you can down all the BCAA's and protein you like during your workout but it isn't going to be utilized at that time.
A very simple carbohydrate will on the other hand. But you don't need 16 oz. of water to trigger the carb utilization process.


"Countless others are doing it". It's now about 40 years plus that the debate about whether a sit-up is good for your back has raged on.
There is tons of evidence to show that a regular sit-up is no good for your back. Yet, countless others are doing them. And countless others will swear up and down that they don't affect your back/spine.
The same goes for Plyometrics.

Countless others bought a ticket on the Titanic when they were assured it wouldn't sink. Countless others believed in Jim Jones.
Countless others lived in a hole in the ground called New Orleans on the assumption that the levees would never break.

Standard interrogation procedure:- the "divide and conquer" routine. Get 5 bank robbers in a room, split them up into different rooms and then tell each one that that the other four confessed and said it was him so he'd better tell all or he's gonna take the rap for everybody.

The "herd" mentality is not always good.
Congratulations...You've now established yourself within the forum as a valuable source of creditable information. :bow: :whistle:

Check out this site:-

www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/zooOO/zooOO366.htm -5K-

You guys are debating different things.

HevyMetal, I think you may have misinterpreted Kino's reasoning for putting up that snippet of an article. I don't believe he was using it as a way to try and indirectly justify the mass intake of fluids during a workout, which is what it sounds like you thought he was trying to say, but instead simply pointing out an example of a nutrient from a fluid source getting absorbed during a workout, thus providing an example where consuming a fluid during a workout was beneficial. In your original argument you had said that fluids don't get absorbed well during a workout, and seemed to use that as justification as to why you do not ingest any during that time.

As I belive Kino was trying to point out, though, there's a big difference between your own example of guzzling 24oz. of water during a workout and periodically sipping a carbohydrate-rich drink like Gatorade, or some other workout enhancing product like Scivation's Xtend (which has BCAA's, Glutamine, and Citrulline Malate if I'm correct). In those situations people aren't drinking for the sake of hydration, but for the nutrients contained in that particular beverage.

I didn't see anyone arguing with the premise that the physical action of weightlifting might interfere with the digestive process, but that in and of itself doesn't mean that there is not a benefit to nutrient intake at that time.

Now, if you can show evidence that anything ingested during lifting isn't absorbed at all, or at some ridiculously slow rate (say 5% of normal), then you'd have a pretty good case for saying that there's really not much point in consuming anything during a workout. However, simply stating the very general point that lifting affects "absorption of fluids" without providing evidence that this actually occurs or to what extent, is certainly not justification for removing all forms of nutrient intake during a workout.:tu:

Separately, I think you made a very good point about the "herd mentality."

This hobby/sport/whatever is certainly a great example of where that mindset shines. However, this can often be a somewhat positive thing for people new to bodybuilding and fitness in general. We can't all spend the time to become experts before we even get going on a fitness program. For me this has been and continues to be an ongoing learning process, one that I thoroughly enjoy. Part of how I (and I'm sure 99% of everyone else) made decisions in the beginning was to look at other people like myself who seemed to have similar goals, particularly those with more training experience, and see what they were doing. Odds are that if I look at a group of people more knowledgeable than myself in a certain field and copy them, it's pretty likely that I'll at least be going in the right general direction.

But as you pointed out this must be kept in check and we must all be wary of simply assuming that something is true because someone else says it is. A large group of people can easily all do something very very stupid (just look at Scientology /rimshot :D ).

Conversely, though, as prevalent as the "herd mentality" is there's also always going to be certain people with an equally irrational approach, simply aimed the other direction. At every school, office, club, social group, whatever you'll always find at least one person that is just itching to buck the trends, to stand out and be individual. Individuality is good. Challenging authority, tradition, and convention is generally a good thing as well, at least in my opinion, but just as blindly following the herd is negative so is blindly going against it. We all know some person who latches passionately onto any counter-idea they can find and revels in telling the entire community that they're wrong. They'll spout off at length about their "revolutionary" ideas that no one else agrees with, proud as hell to be the underdog, no matter how many convincing arguments against them there may be.

So, I guess the point of all this rambling is to say that perhaps the more important point for both of us to make is just that we all need to question things, be objective, and when in doubt double-check our sources. :tu:

I noticed when i tapped on the link I posted it shows the page cannot be displayed and instead advises to go to www.newton.dep.anl.gov

When you do this it takes you to their home page which doesn't readily offer the information in question and you have to search.

It was all about time absorption rates of nutrients and water and/or both.

Edit: Go to this site. Type in "Stomach Nutrient Absorption Rates" in the search engine. Scroll to Document number 4.

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