I've been up and down between probably 11-14% body fat over the past several months to a year. Right now I believe I'm down to my lowest, probably ever, at maybe 10-10.5%. FatTrack II has given me readings from 8.9%-10% the past 2 weeks or so.

Anyway, I still cannot seem to get the last couple % off me. I am very pleased with how I look, but it's NOT the goal I set out for myself that I promised myself by June 1. I want to be ~8% where I can see all the definition completely in my arms and chest (abs seem to have always been my best feature). It's getting very frustrating because I lift 4x's per week, cardio 4-5x's per week and stay on a 1750-1850 calorie diet with only 1-2 cheat meals a week (and they really aren't THAT much of cheating usually).

Is it possible to lose the last 2-4% by June 1? That gives me about 12 weeks to lose what should be about 4-7 pounds of fat. I always hear the last couple pounds are the hardest, and boy can I agree. I've been at about this same body fat for like a month now with very small change.

Any thoughts from those who have lost the last couple pounds or anyone else who cares to chime in on why I might not be losing it or if it's possible by my goal date?

Thanks!

I wish I could help you out...cause I'm in the same boat. I just need a couple more pounds of fat gone. I'm hoping it dosen't take too long!

You do have some nice abs going there...you're lucky! All my fat is right below my belly button.

I wish I were in the same boat, but I am not there yet! Why don't you try and drop your food intake to, say, 1500kcal/day for a couple of weeks, and only do 1 cheat meal a week. Count your total weekly intake so that weekly average is around 1600/day. (that gives you nice 600kcal to cheat with :). Don't forget to post your findings in this thread, if decide to do this!

Stas

I'm not exactly the authority, being ~ 20% nasty fat myself, but I've read a lot :nod:

It seems that the general feeling for the last few pounds is that you have to really clean up your diet. No more cheats, very very clean food, etc. Keep in mind that the amount of work required to lose x pounds of fat is exponential. It's easy at first, but then it ramps up.

Take a good look at your diet, see what you can do to clean it up. That should help a lot.

Again, I'm tubby so take it as my $0.02 ;)

I've been debating on dropping down to around 1600 calories/ day, but I really don't want to lose any muscle mass. I guess if I try it out for a week or two it couldn't be too bad.

I'll let everyone know...

What he said- I get the feeling it's still possible if you continue as you are, but it's going to be a far longer struggle from 10-6% than from 15-10%

... I'll add about 300 - 400 calories of cardio each day and ramp calories down around 100 - 200. You are so close, 1 - 2 weeks of that should do the trick! It takes discipline, but its only for a few weeks!

You can read my BLOG and see how I ate my last few weeks before my photo shoot:

http://www.bodyblog.com/Public.asp?id=507

Jeremy

Hmm... everyone seems to think I should decrease the calories. And to think I was just going to INCREASE them to about 1900 because I read that to lose weight with the activity I do, I should have 1.5g protein per pound, 1g carbs per pound and .2g fat per pound. It came out to 1900 calories. Ahh, what to do. I honestly don't think I could make it on 1600 calories. I have enough trouble with 1800. Recently I've been "picking" at foods inbetween meals because I can never wait.

Jeremy, the added cardio you mentioned sure is a lot. That would basically mean an extra 30 mins each day, bringing me to 1hr 15mins cardio per day. Is that roughly what you were doing? I looked at your food log and still am amazed at your macronutrient ratios. How did you come up with the "magic number" of calories to take in for your body weight? I weigh 160lbs and I'm trying to figure out my ideal final cutting calorie intake.

EDIT: Jeremy, any thoughts on cardio twice a day to get in those extra 300-400 cals? I know people here often say not to, but I keep reading guys who are really cut mention how they do cardio twice/day when they really want to strip fat. Any thoughts?

And with that, if I were to get it in twice/day, one of the sessions would almost HAVE to be before or after lifting. Any thoughts on that and which is the lesser of the two evils?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

I think there are different ways to get sub 8 percent.

However this is what I know will work.

1) Go for 3 super long runs per week. 6 miles , 6 miles and 10 miles. Have a decent carb meal on the morning of the run. After that run , you may eat but avoid carbs.

2) Aim for low carbs intake for 2-3 weeks. Concentrate of grilled meat and lots of vegetables. No potatoe, carrot , pumpkin allowed.

Do so for 2-3 weeks and i can guarantee you will hit 8 percent.

i could best give advice if i knew what you were eating each meal. and your macro breakdown.

and the type of cardio and duration of cardio

edit: i also PM you

A typical lifting day would go something like this:

8am - 2 cups cooked oatmeal w/4oz skim milk & 3/4 cup egg beaters
(430 calories, 6g fat, 70 carbs, 32g protein)
11am - Lifting for 1-1.5 hrs
12:15pm - 1 scoop ON Whey w/8oz skim milk, 1tsp L-Glutamine
(210 calories, 3g fat, 19g carbs, 31g protein)
1pm - 1 can tuna w/very low fat mayo on 2 slices of light 7-grain bread
(290 calories, 4.5g fat, 20g carbs, 41g protein)
4pm - 1 turkey burger on 1 multi-grain bun & 1 tbsp natural peanut butter
(365 calories, 12.5g fat, 30g carbs, 33g protein)
7pm - 8oz grilled chicken & 1 cup broccoli w/1 slice fat free cheese
(215 calories, 2g fat, 4g carbs, 45g protein)
10pm - 2 scoops Designer Whey GlycerLEAN w/water
(190 calories, 3g fat, 4g carb, 35g protein)

Totals = 1700 calories, 31g fat, 145g carbs, 217g protein

Now, I use organic ketchup on my eggs & turkey burger and usually "snack" a tiny bit here and there, so add another 50-100 calories/day of mostly carbs.

Also, please keep in mind I change it up daily. Instead of chicken for dinner, sometimes I make salmon or tuna steak. Instead of Oatmeal I sometimes have 1 cup Kashi GoLean Crunch. Instead of the turkey burger I may have turkey hot dogs and instead of the tuna fish sandwhich, chicken that I bread with egg beaters and bread crumbs with some buffalo sauce. However, I usually rotate every 2-3 days and stay within the same kinds of foods.


Now my lifting is usually 4x's per week (1 of the days it's at ~6pm since I double up cardio/lifting once a week and do cardio at 6:45am) I lift 1-2 muscle groups per day and I normally do 9-12 sets among 3-4 exercises. Each set usually looks like 9-11 reps, 7-9 reps, 5-7 reps for sets 1,2 and 3 respectively.


I do cardio 4x's per week and a cardio day involves pretty much the same food plan, but I do the cardio at 6:45am on empty stomach and don't eat until 1 hour after. Then my day usually proceeds as above, sometimes I eat meat or more egg beaters in replace of the PWO-shake. My cardio used to be 3x's HIIT for 27 mins (6 mins being warm-up/cool down) and once a week on Sunday nights I would do 45 mins ~75-80% Max-HR cardio.

I recently have decided to add more 45min sessions, so it's been more 2 HIIT and 2 45 mins.


What do ya think? I'm open to ANY and ALL suggestions!!

Eat 1500 calories/day 4 days. Day 5 eat 4000+ calories...Do lots of long distance endurance cardio...Perhaps every day. I think that will work...And when you hit 8% you can start maintaining and change to a less painful diet and less cardio...

Regards! :gl:

Karate ...

Honestly, to know the calories I needed, I faithfully use my DietPower software - I keep posting the link, but this is really what I use to dial in. I have owned this software for over 3 years now, and it has never let me down for a shoot:

http://www.naturalphysiques.com/news/VIi001xuqs.html#six

As for the macronutrient ratios, I really don't play into those as much as others like to. If I am getting half my bodyweight in protein and consuming healthy fats, then I'm good to go.

As for the extra cardio, I'm no big fan of doing long, drawn out sessions. My day would be like this:

5am walk uphill at maximum incline on treadmill @ 3.5 mph for 30 minutes

6pm 10 minute warm-up, 30 minutes of weight training, 15 minutes walking uphill

So basically 55 minutes of cardio + 30 minutes of training for me.

I do different routines at different times, but I always add uphill walking when the calories get too low. For example, if DietPower has me down to 1400 calories, then I'll add 200 - 300 calories of walking to allow myself to eat more.

I always ramp my calories too - I shoot to lose 3 pounds per week for 3 weeks, then take 1 week and maintain my weight, then lose 3 weeks, etc. I find this is the optimal zig-zag for me.

Jeremy

A typical lifting day would go something like this:

8am - 2 cups cooked oatmeal w/4oz skim milk & 3/4 cup egg beaters
(430 calories, 6g fat, 70 carbs, 32g protein)
thats a fair bit of carbs for one sitting. one cup of oatmeal should suffice, even 3/4th a cup.

11am - Lifting for 1-1.5 hrs
12:15pm - 1 scoop ON Whey w/8oz skim milk, 1tsp L-Glutamine
(210 calories, 3g fat, 19g carbs, 31g protein)

again id get rid of the milk and utilize some dextrose. maybe 30g of carbs from dextrose. 10g of glutamine post workout also. you want some high gi carbs such as dextrose post workout.

1pm - 1 can tuna w/very low fat mayo on 2 slices of light 7-grain bread
(290 calories, 4.5g fat, 20g carbs, 41g protein)
4pm - 1 turkey burger on 1 multi-grain bun & 1 tbsp natural peanut butter
(365 calories, 12.5g fat, 30g carbs, 33g protein)
7pm - 8oz grilled chicken & 1 cup broccoli w/1 slice fat free cheese
(215 calories, 2g fat, 4g carbs, 45g protein)
10pm - 2 scoops Designer Whey GlycerLEAN w/water
(190 calories, 3g fat, 4g carb, 35g protein)

Totals = 1700 calories, 31g fat, 145g carbs, 217g protein

Now, I use organic ketchup on my eggs & turkey burger and usually "snack" a tiny bit here and there, so add another 50-100 calories/day of mostly carbs.

if you going to snack on something, snack on celery. plain old celery! i would be careful with the ketchup, as long as its very low in sugars and used in the morning, you should be ok.

Also, please keep in mind I change it up daily. Instead of chicken for dinner, sometimes I make salmon or tuna steak. Instead of Oatmeal I sometimes have 1 cup Kashi GoLean Crunch.

stick with oatmeal

Instead of the turkey burger I may have turkey hot dogs and instead of the tuna fish sandwhich, chicken that I bread with egg beaters and bread crumbs with some buffalo sauce. However, I usually rotate every 2-3 days and stay within the same kinds of foods.

id stick with the leanest source of protein, using only the whole grain bread

Now my lifting is usually 4x's per week (1 of the days it's at ~6pm since I double up cardio/lifting once a week and do cardio at 6:45am) I lift 1-2 muscle groups per day and I normally do 9-12 sets among 3-4 exercises. Each set usually looks like 9-11 reps, 7-9 reps, 5-7 reps for sets 1,2 and 3 respectively.


I do cardio 4x's per week and a cardio day involves pretty much the same food plan, but I do the cardio at 6:45am on empty stomach and don't eat until 1 hour after (much to long a time after cardio, 15-25min max). Then my day usually proceeds as above, sometimes I eat meat or more egg beaters in replace of the PWO-shake. My cardio used to be 3x's HIIT for 27 mins (6 mins being warm-up/cool down) and once a week on Sunday nights I would do 45 mins ~75-80% Max-HR cardio.

i would honestly drop all HIIT cardio and focus on 45min cardio at 65% max heart rate in the AM on empty stomach. lower intensity cardio actually burns fat. after a week i would suggest bumping the session to 60min. i would definatly only wait 30min max and than eat breakfast. you need to do this type of cardio to actually burn adipose tissue. now you can do 2x cardio sessions a day if you like. but you should have a protein shake with flax oil 2-3hrs before this session, and only a protein/fat combo. this is as close as you can get to waking up in a fasted state, and it does work well

I recently have decided to add more 45min sessions, so it's been more 2 HIIT and 2 45 mins.


What do ya think? I'm open to ANY and ALL suggestions!!

above in bold. im sure you will lose the rest of your fat if you keep atit. but you can go hardcore for 2 weeks to really get down. it's gonna take every ounce of willpower you got

i would honestly drop the milk, nothing but sugar. regardless of the GI reading and how calcium helps burn fat. take a cal/mag tab 2-3 times a day.

doesnt seem like your getting much EFA's in their. i would definatly get yourself some flax oil. have one scoop whey isolate and 1 tsp - 2 tsp of flax oil 25min after your morning cardio session. consuming carbs after a cardio session blunts lyposis.

im also pondering the idea we may even have to go as far as carb loading to get you to your goal the fastest way. im no expert on carb loading, never done it myself

What is dextrose?

What is "carb loading"?

What is dextrose?

What is "carb loading"?

dextrose is corn sugar as far as i know. it is one of the higest GI carbs you can get, rating of 99 i beleive.

after a workout your blood sugar is low and glycogen is very minimal. in order to transport nutrients into your body, you need glucose (carbs) so your body will begin to release insulin, restoring muscle glycogen and turning on the anabolic pathway.

dextrose achieves this by realeasing insulin at a very fast pace. within minutes of consumption, using an isolate with this combo is deadly for muscle gain.

and no this isnt bad for you, this is one time where you want to spike insulin. regardless of the carb you consuming, your body is going to release more anyways because it's craving to restore energy. using dextrose only maximizes this affect. this is why some people even INJECT insulin into their body post workout. thats how affective it is at building muscle

read this about carb loading and stuff.

http://www.testosterone.net/nation_articles/266seven.jsp

Keep it Simple.

The answer to your question is Nutrition,Nutrition,Nutrition!

If lowering your body fat % under 10% is so important to you...then eliminate your cheat meals for 4 - 6 weeks...During one of my 13 week transformations I had a total of about 4 cheat meals !!!

How bad do you want it? Don't do more cardio ...do less and don't cheat on PROPER NUTITION!


Bill Belfert

Great Results by Training Less! (http://www.bare-minimum-training.com/billbelfertstransformations.html)

Let me simplify this whole nutrition thing:

A portion (size of your fist) of protein:

A potion (size of your fist) of a complex carb

A potion (size of your fist) of a fibrous carb

Every three hours throughout the day.

Take Care,

Bill Belfert

Keep it Simple.

The answer to your question is Nutrition,Nutrition,Nutrition!

If lowering your body fat % under 10% is so important to you...then eliminate your cheat meals for 4 - 6 weeks...During one of my 13 week transformations I had a total of about 4 cheat meals !!!

How bad do you want it? Don't do more cardio ...do less and don't cheat on PROPER NUTITION!

Well, tomorrow I turn 21 so the next couple days is going to be IMPOSSIBLE not to cheat between bday dinners and the bars.

Starting on Sunday though, I will definitely not be cheating at all in my diet. As for doing LESS cardio, I don't think I can convince myself of that, but the proper nutrition I sure will be doing.

you dont need to do less cardio, stick to what you have. doing less cardio isn't going to hurt you.

45-1hr cardio at 65% of your max heart rate actually BURNS FAT. this is the type of cardio alot of body builders use.

i could put money on it, that if you did am cardio 5 days a week for 45min the first week, than 60min on a bike or eleiptical trainer, you will definatly notice results

you dont need to do less cardio, stick to what you have. doing less cardio isn't going to hurt you.

45-1hr cardio at 65% of your max heart rate actually BURNS FAT. this is the type of cardio alot of body builders use.

i could put money on it, that if you did am cardio 5 days a week for 45min the first week, than 60min on a bike or eleiptical trainer, you will definatly notice results

Sorry for buttin' in but....why would anyone want to do all that cardio if you can control it with Proper Nutrition?

Here's an excerpt From my BMT Abs Special Report:

"Don’t believe me? Fine. Go out and do one thousand sit-ups, or crunches, or leg-lifts, or some other torturous abdominal exercise. You can do all the exercise and aerobics till your blue in the face. The sad fact is if you’re still eating tons of crap…you’ll…well…STILL LOOK LIKE CRAP!!

Boy, people think if they do a little exercise that it gives them “Carte Blanche” to eat anything they want. They are under the false pretense that those “calories burned,” read-outs on cardio machines actually mean something!

More often than not, a person who just spent a whole hour sweating on the treadmill and then eats a low or no-fat muffin is worse off than when they started!

Bottom Line: The key to a flat tummy is to first and foremost, learn how to use proper nutrition, PERIOD!"

I hope this helps,

Bill Belfert

FREE Ab Report (http://www.bare-minimum-training.com/freereport.html)

P.S. Happy Birthday Karate... don't go crazy and get right back on track on Monday!

Sorry for buttin' in but....why would anyone want to do all that cardio if you can control it with Proper Nutrition?

Here's an excerpt From my BMT Abs Special Report:

"Don’t believe me? Fine. Go out and do one thousand sit-ups, or crunches, or leg-lifts, or some other torturous abdominal exercise. You can do all the exercise and aerobics till your blue in the face. The sad fact is if you’re still eating tons of crap…you’ll…well…STILL LOOK LIKE CRAP!!

Boy, people think if they do a little exercise that it gives them “Carte Blanche” to eat anything they want. They are under the false pretense that those “calories burned,” read-outs on cardio machines actually mean something!

More often than not, a person who just spent a whole hour sweating on the treadmill and then eats a low or no-fat muffin is worse off than when they started!

Bottom Line: The key to a flat tummy is to first and foremost, learn how to use proper nutrition, PERIOD!"

Please always feel free to "butt in", I like to hear all sides. However, with all due respect, that quote is pretty meaningless around here. I think most of us here know that you need a COMBINATION of proper nutrition AND cardio (AND lifting) to opitmally lose fat. If I was going to add more cardio so I could eat more then I totally would agree, it's pointless. That is not going to happen though. I intend to keep my calories around where they are, maybe even drop them a few in the carbs dept. and add a little extra cardio each day.

If it's the wrong way to go about it, I'll know in 2 months when I haven't seen the results I want. I think that if I stick to it, I will see the results I want, it makes sense.


P.S. Happy Birthday Karate... don't go crazy and get right back on track on Monday!

Thanks! I shall try not to... :d_wink:

you dont need to do less cardio, stick to what you have. doing less cardio isn't going to hurt you.

45-1hr cardio at 65% of your max heart rate actually BURNS FAT. this is the type of cardio alot of body builders use.

i could put money on it, that if you did am cardio 5 days a week for 45min the first week, than 60min on a bike or eleiptical trainer, you will definatly notice results

It's funny you mentioned that bodybuilders use this. My friend who is a professional bodybuilder was online the other day so I asked him what the guys he trains with do when they need to cut fat. I was expecting him to say HIIT, 25mins full intensity, etc and he said, I quote:

"cardio after lifting, treadmill on 7 degree incline, 3.3-3.5 mph"

So after Jeremy said he did that and I was reading a book that said no more than 60-70% max-HR, this morning I did 1 hr of 4mph on 7 incline and I was right around 70% the whole time. I think I am going to stick to this for the next couple weeks.

My only problem is I'm home now on Spring Break so I can use MY treadmill. At school, you are only allowed 30mins on the equipment if people are waiting (and they usually are at the time I do, right when it opens) so I will have to figure something out. I just might have to suffer on the recumbent bike.

Thanks for the advice, feel free to keep it coming!

Sorry for buttin' in but....why would anyone want to do all that cardio if you can control it with Proper Nutrition?

Here's an excerpt From my BMT Abs Special Report:

...

I hope this helps Bill, I'm sorry but I don't see anything in that quote that would have been considered helpful at this point in the thread. All you quoted was yourself saying that you have to diet properly in addition to exercise. I'm sure karatekicker knows that. I'm sure because earlier in this thread he's alluded to his diet.

A more helpful post would have included some level of detail including common pitfalls for that last few percent, or some special dieting technique that seems to help. Something along the lines of "really cutting down sugar helps", or similar.

Simply going on about how you have to control diet as well as workout serves little purpose here, most of us know that already. Your post looks more like an ad for your reports than anything.

there is no doubt proper nutrition alone without cardio will get you the physique you want. the length to get your to that point is gonna take alot longer.

trust me on the 65% max heart rate for cardio karate. body builders use this type because after around 30minutes, your body starts utilizing fat stores. "lipolysis".. i think i spelt it right.

anymore than 75% max heart rate starts to become anarobic. your body can't get enough oxygen to burn fat. it's like smothering a fire with a blanket, it needs oxygen to burn.

consuming a high carb breakfast after your cardio just stops the lipolysis state just like that. a protein/fat combo is your best choice. but id strongly recomend cutting your carbs to 30g for breakfast. 70 is ALOT

you dont need to do less cardio, stick to what you have. doing less cardio isn't going to hurt you.

45-1hr cardio at 65% of your max heart rate actually BURNS FAT. this is the type of cardio alot of body builders use.

i could put money on it, that if you did am cardio 5 days a week for 45min the first week, than 60min on a bike or eleiptical trainer, you will definatly notice results

Hey Jono, I'm definitely going to try your suggestion and go for the longer, lower intesity sessions over the next couple of weeks. I feel like HIIT is just not doing it for me anymore. I'm also trying to cut from 11% BF down to >10%.

there is no doubt proper nutrition alone without cardio will get you the physique you want. the length to get your to that point is gonna take alot longer.

trust me on the 65% max heart rate for cardio karate. body builders use this type because after around 30minutes, your body starts utilizing fat stores. "lipolysis".. i think i spelt it right.

anymore than 75% max heart rate starts to become anarobic. your body can't get enough oxygen to burn fat. it's like smothering a fire with a blanket, it needs oxygen to burn.

consuming a high carb breakfast after your cardio just stops the lipolysis state just like that. a protein/fat combo is your best choice. but id strongly recomend cutting your carbs to 30g for breakfast. 70 is ALOT

Yeah, I recently learned about the 75%+ Max-HR not allowing the oxygen to get to your muscles. I used to do EVERY SESSSION, HIIT or 45mins, at about 80-85% the whole time. I definitely, as I did today, am going to drop the intensity.

I also am going to take that breakfast recommendation. I will have a shake after cardio and when I eat breakfast, cut the oatmeal in half and eat the natural peanut butter with breakfast.

Thanks!

So eating low carb for bfast is good to cut? What about lunch and dinner?

not "low carb".. karate was consuming 70g of carbs in one sitting. there is no way his body can utilize that, hence fat storage after am cardio when your trying to burn fat.

IDEALY you want to have a pro/fat meal after morning cardio.

but consuming say 25-30ish grams of carbs after cardio is fine as long as its from something like oatmeal.

some people, such as pro body builders could probably handle close to 70g of carbs.. but i doubt there is anyone on this site that can do that. 30g is a good goal IMO

hate to say it, but DO NOT CHEAT!! At that low bodyfat, everything is magnified greatly.

Have u thougt of trying a new diet maybe?

not "low carb".. karate was consuming 70g of carbs in one sitting. there is no way his body can utilize that, hence fat storage after am cardio when your trying to burn fat.

IDEALY you want to have a pro/fat meal after morning cardio.

but consuming say 25-30ish grams of carbs after cardio is fine as long as its from something like oatmeal.

some people, such as pro body builders could probably handle close to 70g of carbs.. but i doubt there is anyone on this site that can do that. 30g is a good goal IMO
Do you mean that 30g carb an hour or 2 after the post-workout shake?

in the am, since i a shake isnt that filling..

id say between 1.5 hrs to 2hrs after that shake to have the carb/pro mean is fine