So if the body goes into survival mode then how do those guys on "suvivor" lose so much weight. Seriously, in 39 days they go from reasonably fit (usually) to skin and bones. Obviously they are losing lots of muscle but wouldn't they just shut down entirely?

Just a silly question.

Look at their diet....it's horribly unbalanced and they are essentially starved for 39 days. Each event takes it's toll on the body. In an effort to protect vitals, the body cannabilizes things it doesn't need....and for many, that's muscle. The really lean folks get pretty lethargic as time goes on because they really only have enough energy for an event and then they're spent.

For the "larger" folks who play the game and stay in for a long time....they do lose lots of fat because they essentially have oodles of energy stores for a 39 day tour.

Also, don't forget that Survivor is staged, and therefore, fake.

Cheers,
Heavy

Also, don't forget that Survivor is staged, and therefore, fake.

Cheers,
Heavy

What do you mean fake? I would agree that certain editing and directorial decisions can be/are made to make the characters be who the staff wants them to be, but fake is not the word I would use.

Anyway...
Maybe I have a misinterpretation of what it means to have your body 'shut down'. That term gets thrown around so often, I think, and I literally visualized the body of someone in survival mode grinding to a halt. Slowed breathing, lathargic, pale, dehydrated etc. But if these guys on Survivor aren't crashing like that, and they most certainly should be in survival mode well then what gives? Is my interpretation of shut down mistaken?

Just making some semi-educational banter...thanks for bearing with me.

Just a silly question.

Just making some semi-educational banter.

Well, which is it? Silly or semi-educational?

:p

I personally think starvation mode is B.S. People like to throw it around, and of course supplement companies LOVE the term to scare you into buying protein powder, but I have yet to really see this clearly defined. There is no magic starvation mode. There are conditions where you lose fat and/or lose muscle, or gain fat and/or gain muscle, and conditions where you metabolism may slow down or speed up.

Jeremy

So if the body goes into survival mode then how do those guys on "suvivor" lose so much weight. Seriously, in 39 days they go from reasonably fit (usually) to skin and bones. Obviously they are losing lots of muscle but wouldn't they just shut down entirely?

Just a silly question.

I don't see any connection between starvation and supplements. :blank:
I'm also quite sure I've read hard research confirming the starvation response... just wish I had the habit of keeping bookmarks. :/

I personally think starvation mode is B.S. People like to throw it around, and of course supplement companies LOVE the term to scare you into buying protein powder, but I have yet to really see this clearly defined. There is no magic starvation mode. There are conditions where you lose fat and/or lose muscle, or gain fat and/or gain muscle, and conditions where you metabolism may slow down or speed up.

Jeremy

I've seen a couple topics talking about the metabolism myth. I wish there were ways to be more scientific on these things. My personal belief is that the metabolism of anything can be sped up by proper diet and exorcise. We've all seen too many peoples lives be drasticlly effected by these things to think that their metabolism isn't effected. However as Jeremy eluded...everyones body is different and the rate at which they gain or lose fat or muscle is going to vary person to person.

Well, which is it? Silly or semi-educational?

:p

Both...what's wrong with that!!:tucool:

All that happens when one goes on calories too low is that the metabolism slows a bit and the body grabs a lot of calories from muscle as well. It's obviously quite possible to lose fat while in "starvation mode" (though it's not a qualitative state but rather a quantifiable change in metabolism). You take anybody and put them on 200 calories/day and they'll either die or lose tons of fat in the process. They won't "stagnate" or plateau on the weight loss at 200 calories/day. They'll keep losing until they die. They'll look emaciated, with both low fat and muscle, rather like a prisoner of war.

I personally think starvation mode is B.S. People like to throw it around, and of course supplement companies LOVE the term to scare you into buying protein powder, but I have yet to really see this clearly defined. There is no magic starvation mode. There are conditions where you lose fat and/or lose muscle, or gain fat and/or gain muscle, and conditions where you metabolism may slow down or speed up.

Jeremy
I always thought that "stavation mode" was just an analogy for very slow progress...is that not correct?

I personally think starvation mode is B.S. People like to throw it around, and of course supplement companies LOVE the term to scare you into buying protein powder, but I have yet to really see this clearly defined. There is no magic starvation mode. There are conditions where you lose fat and/or lose muscle, or gain fat and/or gain muscle, and conditions where you metabolism may slow down or speed up.

JeremyYes! I've said that myself in the past. In fact, I've used the term starvation mode, but after actually thinking about it, I realized that although a person can definitely depress their metabolism and not notice such progress as before, there's definitely no threshold point at which the person goes from great weight loss to suddenly BANG, they can't do anything and their body is in "starvation mode". I know that you lost weight on very low calories and when you found your progress slowing at the end, you just lowered them further. John also lost his initial weight on a consistently low calorie diet. I've personally found that when I wanted that extra bit of fat loss, all I had to do was cut calories further and my weight would continue to fly off. The body will probably increase its reliance on eating muscle, but much of that can be mitigated with weights.

I'm not sure what the objection is to the term "starvation mode" -- That is merely a term used to describe the slowing down of the metabolism due to severe caloric restriction. It isn't "BS" -- If you starve yourself, your metabolism will slow down in order to preserve tissue.

So if the body goes into survival mode then how do those guys on "suvivor" lose so much weight. Seriously, in 39 days they go from reasonably fit (usually) to skin and bones. Obviously they are losing lots of muscle but wouldn't they just shut down entirely?

Just a silly question.

Well, the body can't shut down entirely -- If you did that, your body's natural defense mechanism for lack of food would be rather moot .. wouldn't it? I mean, if you simply fell into a coma and didn't expend any energy beyond just keeping your vitals going, you'd be as good as dead. You need to maintain enough energy to obtain food in times of crisis... so your body slows down, and becomes more efficient, but it won't shut down entirely. So, all "starvation mode" does, is slow down your metabolism and energy expenditure, so that you use available energy much more efficiently. You can't defy physics, so you are still going to lose weight, but not as much as you would have if your body didn't increase your body's energy-burning efficiency.

you'd only shut down entirely if you were taking in little to no food and even then it's a bit of a process.

From what I remember from Bio.....everything is done to protect your vital organs and brain so....muscle fat etc.. is bled off first..and then it goes from there including your hair thins, skin becomes dry and pale etc....working it's way to internal organ failure,,,,strangely though, I think your hearing hangs around to the end as a defensive mechanism.....everything shuts down from least important to most (though some systems will cause mulitple system failure and then the body is overwhelmed.


Starvation

Structural and functional changes due to the total lack of intake of energy and essential nutrients.

Starvation is the most severe form of malnutrition. It may result from fasting, famine, anorexia nervosa, catastrophic disease of the GI tract, stroke, or coma. The basic metabolic response to starvation is conservation of energy and body tissues. However, the body will mobilize its own tissues as a source of energy, which results in the destruction of visceral organs and muscle and in extreme shrinkage of adipose tissue. Total starvation is fatal in 8 to 12 wk

I think that starvation mode as used on a day to day term IS kinda BS though. Certainly if you intake 200 calories a day you cannot survive for long on that. You would eventually wither away to nothing. What I think Jeremy was saying is that the term is seriously overused and just because someone isn't eating an ideal amount of calories doesn't mean that their body will go into "starvation mode."

I guess what I'm getting at is that starvation mode really could only exist in the extreme cases of true 'starvation.' As in body systems slowing down...skin paling, body dehydrating etc. :confused:

BTW...Survivor starts tonight!!! God, I love that show.

On a side note, I wanted to ask this as well. Somewhere I heard that once you start feeling hungry that was a sign that your body was going after muscle for energy. Anyone know if this is true or is it a myth? I don't remember the source so I can't say that it is credible or not.

On a side note, I wanted to ask this as well. Somewhere I heard that once you start feeling hungry that was a sign that your body was going after muscle for energy. Anyone know if this is true or is it a myth? I don't remember the source so I can't say that it is credible or not.

Boy, I hope not! :eek:

The contestants on Survivor are also given a multi-vitamin each day. Plus, if someone ever got into serious trouble, they would be helped out. Many also get those reward meals each episode.

The issue is that people assume if their metabolism slows, they are suddenly dumping loads of muscle. It just isn't true. If someone goes extremely low calorie but gets adequate proetin and nutrients, they aren't going to lose muscle or they are going to minimize it.

"Severe caloric restriction" is where it gets shady. I agree, 200 calories per day would be starvation for most people. But I get a chuckle out of people saying that 1700 calories is going to put me in starvation mode, when it's exactly what I do to get ripped for the pictures that I take. I'm not starving and wasting away muscle.

Sure, my metabolism will slow down a bit, but I have yet to meet anyone who's doesn't - even professional natural bodybuilders who are by definition the people who know their bodies the most and do everything possible (naturally) to preserve tissue while leaning down will share that there is no way to stop the metabolism from slowing when cutting ... it's not starvation, it's just a normal reaction from the body to adjust to the calories.

That is the real myth - people assume slower metabolism = muscle cannabilism. Not true, not a shred support this. Slow metabolism just means a slow metabolism. It's not necessarily bad or wrong to have one.

Jeremy

I'm not sure what the objection is to the term "starvation mode" -- That is merely a term used to describe the slowing down of the metabolism due to severe caloric restriction. It isn't "BS" -- If you starve yourself, your metabolism will slow down in order to preserve tissue.