I'm not sure which forum that this belongs in, but here we go anyways. Currently, and in the past, I have been doing my cardio immediately after my lifting sessions which is the topic of this post. My concern is that potentially I might be cannabalizing my muscle gains with my cardio, even though it isn't HIIT. I tend to do somewhere between LISS and MISS (if that is a valid acronym) without any nourishment beforehand. The benefit I have found is that I don't have soreness the next day if I do cardio after my workouts and it is very convenient for me to do both at the same time to limit my trips to the gym to one per day.

My question is whether I should try to bring a protein shake with me to the gym to drink after my lifting and before my cardio session. I think that this may make me feel a little better during my cardio and prevent any muscle loss.

Any opinions would be appreciated

Thanks!

I can't see a protein only shake hurting you right in between the two. Ya don't know till ya try.

Be prepared to be told how horrible cardio is after lifting. Before I bow out, I think it's not ideal, but certainly acceptable.

Cardio after lifting is horrible.

:D

I'm a jerk.

All jokes aside, I don't think it's a good idea, but I've done it in the past. You should experiment.

If I had to do this I would do a brief session but follow up with the shake afterwords. Standard protein/carb pwo shake that is.

Cardio after lifting is horrible.

:D

I'm a jerk.

That and your dislike of Jessica Alba is not helping you.

If I had to do this I would do a brief session but follow up with the shake afterwords. Standard protein/carb pwo shake that is.

This is the approach I've always used when doing them together. It's not ideal, but I know for some, they flat out won't do the cardio in the A.M. After lifting is certainly better than not at all. :D

That and your dislike of Jessica Alba is not helping you.
Never said I disliked her, I just don't think she's as hot as most guys seem to think. No biggie, just different tastes. Although some in that thread seem to think it's illegal to have that opinion. :confused:

This is the approach I've always used when doing them together. It's not ideal, but I know for some, they flat out won't do the cardio in the A.M. After lifting is certainly better than not at all. :D
I don't care for AM cardio either.

But I don't think your last sentence is 100% accurate for everyone. "After lifting is better than not at all" I mean. I think there are too many other things to consider, genetics, goals, type of training (the lifting but also the cardio), diet of course too. For example, if I started doing cardio after lifting right now, with the way my training is structured and the way my diet is structured, with my genetics, goals, schedule, and all that stuff, it would cause negative effects big time for me.

For some, depending on so many other factors, cardio after lifting could seriously hinder fat loss goals.

Note I said "FAT loss."

Note I also said "for some." I don't want to start this stupid debate again. :D I still say "experiment!"

I'll let you know... I ramped up my training this week
This week I started a second cardio session after my afternoon lifting.. but LISS for 35 min..around 70% HR I drink my Cell Mass now and when I get home do my Isolate Shake..

I do a fasted 45 min cardio every morning ..at 75-85% HR

I'm looking for fat loss..


Hinder Fat Loss ? only if you don't eat enough and then you might lose more muscle .. I'm not sure how more activity can stop Fat loss

To be safe...Weight-Measure-Caliper once a week.. I do it on Sat. mornings..From this you can tell if you need to eat more or less..or adjust other things..

Hinder Fat Loss ? only if you don't eat enough and then you might lose more muscle .. I'm not sure how more activity can stop Fat loss
Just so we're clear, I said it CAN hinder fat loss. CAN, not WILL. :)

My reasons for not doing cardio after weight-training (or before, for that matter) are as follows:

1) I hate cardio.
2) I burn more fat and less muscle by concentrating more on diet for fat loss than cardio.
3) PWO I like to get out of the gym and have a PWO meal immediately; I don't want to waste time by jumping on the bike - PWO for me is more important. Maintaining muscle, even if that means my cut progress is slower, is more important.
4) I've tried this too many times and gotten to skinny for my preference.
5) I hate cardio.

You'd never catch me mixing an anaerobic activity with an aerobic one.

Makes no sense at all as each activity is responsible for different results from that stimulus, both of which have nothing to do w/one another. One or both suffer.

Again, this is just MY preference, and it's what I also teach/instruct as I need my clients to succeed and this is one way of guaranteeing that success.

~SC~

Just so we're clear, I said it CAN hinder fat loss. CAN, not WILL. :)

My reasons for not doing cardio after weight-training (or before, for that matter) are as follows:

1) I hate cardio.
2) I burn more fat and less muscle by concentrating more on diet for fat loss than cardio.
3) PWO I like to get out of the gym and have a PWO meal immediately; I don't want to waste time by jumping on the bike - PWO for me is more important. Maintaining muscle, even if that means my cut progress is slower, is more important.
4) I've tried this too many times and gotten to skinny for my preference.
5) I hate cardio.

Wow, I fully agree with all five of those. I would add one more though: 6) I hate cardio :)

Groan....I still do it anyway....but it has gotten down to a coupla times a week on non-weight lifting days. Even then, I try to come up with any excuse in the book not to do it.

I agree that cardio back to back with lifting isn't the perfect solution.. but for me to step it up alittle.. and not do this I'd have to go to the gym 3 times a day.. not the twice I go now for 5 days a week and once on Sat.

I'm already doing 45 min in the morning.. and Don't want to ext. that out..

Well I know no other way.. unless I do it three times a day :eek: I wonder if they'll make me pay more membership since I'm there so much..Heck they might put me to work :)..

Well there is a way :) I'm lifting mon-wed-Fri-Sat ...I could double cardio on Tue -thurs only..Not much of a stepping it up..but mayb that is all I need.. :)

Well this is one of those experiments for me that might not last more then two weeks.. :) or until I cut to 180lbs..

I agree that cardio back to back with lifting isn't the perfect solution.. but for me to step it up alittle.. and not do this I'd have to go to the gym 3 times a day.. not the twice I go now for 5 days a week and once on Sat.

I'm already doing 45 min in the morning.. and Don't want to ext. that out..

Well I know no other way.. unless I do it three times a day :eek: I wonder if they'll make me pay more membership since I'm there so much..Heck they might put me to work :)..

Well there is a way :) I'm lifting mon-wed-Fri-Sat ...I could double cardio on Tue -thurs only..Not much of a stepping it up..but mayb that is all I need.. :)

Well this is one of those experiments for me that might not last more then two weeks.. :) or until I cut to 180lbs..
So you do cardio every day (besides Sunday), multiple times per day?

JUst started this week... normally only 6 days a week.. decided to step it up and the weight loss.. Change things up.. I decided to do cardio twice a day..
But I see the logic of not doing around lifting... So I'll back it down to only twice on non-lifting days...after this week

Sound like alot I know... So this is a lesson to anyone who eats junk food all their lives.. You can become insulin resistant and have to work your tail off to lose weight when your older...

Chris, I certainly agree with you completely that it's far from ideal, for most people. I've done this method for extended periods of time on a few cuts in the past and experienced some muscle loss myself. However, I was also undereating, performing very intense cardio and often not even getting my PWO meal in for a while after the cardio. All which could have contributed to my muscle loss (which even still was quite minimal).

I can't really see it hindering fat loss in any way except that you could lose some muscle and therefore slow your metabolism. However, you're not going to slow it 200-300 calories/day (the amount of cals you'll burn during the cardio), so I'm not sure I see cardio after lifting hindering fat loss for anyone. It might not result in as good a physique as cardio separated by X hours or on off days, but I think for the person who would NOT do cardio if it weren't after lifting, it is advantageous to do it then as opposed to never. Just my thoughts.

I'm attaching a pic (which I'm sure you've seen) of a member over on bb.com who uses cardio and lifting in the same session. Even better, he does the workouts fasted. Can't argue with his physique. And sure, his genetics are great, no doubt about that. However, I've seen several other people with incredible physiques who do cardio and lifting together despite them having different purposes.

P.S. I was just messing with you guys about Alba in the other thread. While I can't see how you see what you see, I was still joking, you see? :D

Carry on.

It depends on the goal and the individual. For someone that wants to lose weight I agree that cardio can be a great help. And in that case doing it after weight training is probably much better compared to not doing it at all.

However if you want to build muscle it´s not very good to do alot of cardio. Specially not long distance/duration medium intensity cardio. And it would be worse if done directly after weight training. Trying to build really big legs and doing that type of cardio almost every day would be rather hopeless, IMO.

That's great that you have that pic Karate, the guy is lean yes.

However, that is one person. I am sure others exist, yes, but this was not about there being no way for it to work (activities together), it was about taking the best possible approaches that would yield a much higher chance/ratio of success to the masses in the final physique attained. :nod:

My personal situation is that I help and have helped 100's and 100's of people, and in doing that I choose the BEST approaches for the best possible body composition changes for the better, which is why my programs and success rate have a sterling reputation. I can show you pics of guys who are SHREDDED TO THE BONE and do NO CARDIO AT ALL, but that is never something you'd see me encouraging or recommending in any way/shape/form when it comes to my programs and what I give out advice wise. :nope: I'm known for providing not only very quick results, but the best ones in regards to body composition changes for the better. :madpimp:

~SC~

Hey SwoleCat, not arguing with your approach or clients' results by any means. I know what you insist upon works well, and is probably one of the best methods to losing fat while maintaining/gaining muscle.

However, I would place a heavy wager that in the real world outside of JSF, maybe 2 out of 10 people are willing to commit to cardio every single morning and weight training 3-4 evenings per week. For the other 8 people, I would think performing some cardio after lifting to be better than not doing cardio at all, for both health and fat loss reasons. With proper nutrition, this can be pulled off with success.

Just in case I haven't made myself clear, I too agree cardio separated from lifting is, in most cases, a better approach. I just know that is not realistic for most people out there and would hate for those people to be dissuaded from doing cardio after lifting just because it may not be the absolute best approach.


P.S. I realize I used "Chris" in my last post. I was talking to 1FastGTX. Sorry if that caused any confusion.

Well I'll tell you one thing..If you do this as I have..Eat more..
I'm total wasted after 3 days of splitt cardio and two lifting days..I've decided to not cardio the second time today.. and I'll probably only cardio twice on my non- lifting days.. unless I feel very strong one day I'll throw it in after lifting..

Plus my lifting is more of 30 min of supersetting.. and the cardio I do after is more of keeping the heart rate up for another 30 min.. So more like 70-75% HR level..
So it's not like I'm in the gym lifting for 60-90 min and then busting my rupp with HITT cardio after :)..
But still...it busted my rupp hahahhahha

Moral of the story...If you do up the cardio sessions..Eat More.. or you'll go up in :mad:

I'm such a hard loser that I find I have to do cardio just about every day. Now that weightlift in the mornings, I can do my cardio during my "lunch break" (which is usually quite late in the afternoon), and I've definitely noticed a difference in performance, even after just a couple of weeks. I'm also not currently trying to build "big legs" (though I am doing heavy weights on leg days) because I'm interested in long-distance endurance challenges for this summer.

However, if I couldn't do cardio later on in the day, I would continue to do it directly after lifting, because my fat loss just stops dead when I don't include a lot of cardio. The fact that I absolutely love running doesn't hurt, though. :whistle:

I'm also a Extreme Hard Loser... The only time I see any nice weight loss is when I do this:
Pro 50-55% Carb 15-20% Fat 30%
Cals 1600-1700
Cardio 75-85% HR 45 min fasted 6 days a week
LIft 4 days a week..

I was trying to up the cardio to break into that 2lb a week loss area.. but I can't do it daily (two cardio sessions) on my cal level.. but I'm going to start doing it on my non-lifting days

First off, thanks for all the responses guys. Even though I seem to remember this topic being discussed in the past, I couldn't find it through the search engine. I know this is a semi-controversial topic and I do appreciate everyone trying to help.

This is the approach I've always used when doing them together. It's not ideal, but I know for some, they flat out won't do the cardio in the A.M. After lifting is certainly better than not at all.

This has been my current way of thinking for a long time. During college and before that, I don't think I would have been ready (mentally) to do morning cardio. Now that I am working full time I think I could do it, but my gym doesn't open early enough to facilitate me going to the gym, doing cardio and getting to work on time.

But I don't think your last sentence is 100% accurate for everyone. "After lifting is better than not at all" I mean. I think there are too many other things to consider, genetics, goals, type of training (the lifting but also the cardio), diet of course too. For example, if I started doing cardio after lifting right now, with the way my training is structured and the way my diet is structured, with my genetics, goals, schedule, and all that stuff, it would cause negative effects big time for me.

I neglected to mention all of the details 1FastGTX laid out in his post and that leaves many holes open for discussion. I am currently cutting down from my current weight (~200 lbs @ 5' 10") attempting to do so without losing my lean body mass in the process. I am willing to sacrifice muscle gains at this point to cut my excess fat, but I definitely do not want to be losing the muscle I have built over the years. Sure, I have parts I would like to build on, but that will be taking a back seat to my fat loss for now. I don't tend to lose my fat without cardio, but I have never had an optimal diet. Improvements have been made with my diet and will continue, but I think in the past cardio has benefited my losses, even when performed immediately after lifting.

You'd never catch me mixing an anaerobic activity with an aerobic one.

Makes no sense at all as each activity is responsible for different results from that stimulus, both of which have nothing to do w/one another. One or both suffer.

Again, this is just MY preference, and it's what I also teach/instruct as I need my clients to succeed and this is one way of guaranteeing that success.

~SC~

I wouldn't want to ask you to reveal any trade secret or anything here, but I was wondering why the results from each would be hindered by being performed near each other? It seems to me (as an amateur) that since they are unrelated, they wouldn't be affected by each other. I'm not debating your point, just asking what the rationale is. I could see that maybe doing cardio immediately after lifting wouldn't allow you to put forth optimal effort into the cardio, but again that is just me think out loud.

Chris, I certainly agree with you completely that it's far from ideal, for most people. I've done this method for extended periods of time on a few cuts in the past and experienced some muscle loss myself. However, I was also undereating, performing very intense cardio and often not even getting my PWO meal in for a while after the cardio. All which could have contributed to my muscle loss (which even still was quite minimal).

Just to note, I do get my PWO meal (shake with banana) in immediately after I drive back from the gym (10 mins or so). I don't believe that I am undereating and I try to keep the intensity at a reasonable level. Personally, I think that the benefits to doing the cardio after compared to not at all outweigh the detriments to me. I am not in great cardiovascular shape and one of the goals of my training is to work on improving in that field.

However, that is one person. I am sure others exist, yes, but this was not about there being no way for it to work (activities together), it was about taking the best possible approaches that would yield a much higher chance/ratio of success to the masses in the final physique attained.

My personal situation is that I help and have helped 100's and 100's of people, and in doing that I choose the BEST approaches for the best possible body composition changes for the better, which is why my programs and success rate have a sterling reputation. I can show you pics of guys who are SHREDDED TO THE BONE and do NO CARDIO AT ALL, but that is never something you'd see me encouraging or recommending in any way/shape/form when it comes to my programs and what I give out advice wise. I'm known for providing not only very quick results, but the best ones in regards to body composition changes for the better.

I respect your work a great deal and I have always been tempted by the consistantly great results your clients achieve. It is unfortunate that I can't do cardio in the mornings, but it is an unfortunate fact of the situation I am in with work and my gym's hours.

Sorry for the really long post, but I really do appreciate your comments and I wanted to respond as best I could.

Thanks!

-Stromie

Oh and regarding Jessica Alba...........she may not be the hottest ever (*cough* Elisha Cuthbert *cough*), but in any case, she's pretty damn close :drool:

:p

However, I would place a heavy wager that in the real world outside of JSF, maybe 2 out of 10 people are willing to commit to cardio every single morning and weight training 3-4 evenings per week. For the other 8 people, I would think performing some cardio after lifting to be better than not doing cardio at all, for both health and fat loss reasons. With proper nutrition, this can be pulled off with success.
I agree, most people are not willing to make such a commitment.

I still won't make a generalization like "well then cardio post weightlifting is second best." There are way too many other variables, there is way too much more to consider. It could be second best, absolutely, but it could also cause problems. Each situation is individual, in my opinion. Diet, weightlifting routine, proposed cardio routine, length, intensity, genetics... (You did touch on this in that last sentence - "with proper nutrition..." - though of course there is a bit more to it than that.)

I just can't say "well then do your cardio after you lift weights, that's the next best thing." I would have to know a lot more before I would make that suggestion.

And what about doing the cardio on non-training days? Lift weights 3 days per week, do cardio 3 days per week. I actually find that to be more optimal (again, FOR ME) than morning cardio and evening weightlifting.

I am willing to sacrifice muscle gains at this point to cut my excess fat, but I definitely do not want to be losing the muscle I have built over the years.
Then disregard my posts and suggestions. I'm not interested in cutting at the expense of muscle loss. I understand that it can and does happen to a degree, but I am very cautious about keeping muscle loss to the absolute minimum.

By the way I am not putting you down or trying to be sarcastic - I know we all have different goals, that's okay. :)

I hear you it's all good. :)

~SC~

Hey SwoleCat, not arguing with your approach or clients' results by any means. I know what you insist upon works well, and is probably one of the best methods to losing fat while maintaining/gaining muscle.

However, I would place a heavy wager that in the real world outside of JSF, maybe 2 out of 10 people are willing to commit to cardio every single morning and weight training 3-4 evenings per week. For the other 8 people, I would think performing some cardio after lifting to be better than not doing cardio at all, for both health and fat loss reasons. With proper nutrition, this can be pulled off with success.

Just in case I haven't made myself clear, I too agree cardio separated from lifting is, in most cases, a better approach. I just know that is not realistic for most people out there and would hate for those people to be dissuaded from doing cardio after lifting just because it may not be the absolute best approach.


P.S. I realize I used "Chris" in my last post. I was talking to 1FastGTX. Sorry if that caused any confusion.

Jessica Alba is HOOOOOOOOOOT.


~SC~

Then disregard my posts and suggestions. I'm not interested in cutting at the expense of muscle loss. I understand that it can and does happen to a degree, but I am very cautious about keeping muscle loss to the absolute minimum.

By the way I am not putting you down or trying to be sarcastic - I know we all have different goals, that's okay. :)

Your suggestions made a lot of sense in the general aspect and were definitely not taken in the wrong way. :nod:

I'm not interested in cutting at the expense of muscle loss either. I'm attempting to cut with muscle maintence and cardio improvement as my goals.

And what about doing the cardio on non-training days? Lift weights 3 days per week, do cardio 3 days per week. I actually find that to be more optimal (again, FOR ME) than morning cardio and evening weightlifting.

I am currently doing a 4 day lifting split (Shoulders/Tris, Back, Chest/Bis and Legs) and I like it a lot. The cardio is currently planned for lifitng days, the "off" day in the middle of the week and either cardio or an active activity (basketball or other) on the weekend. I could see it on a 3 day split, but with my current plan I would be only doing cardio 2 days a week and I'm not sure if that's enough for me.

And what about doing the cardio on non-training days? Lift weights 3 days per week, do cardio 3 days per week. I actually find that to be more optimal (again, FOR ME) than morning cardio and evening weightlifting.

I like this approach as well. Probably moreso than cardio post-lifting. However, many people (like myself and stromie) lift 4 days/week and like/need a day off. That only leaves 2 days for cardio and IMHO, that doesn't really cut it (not pun intended).

Again, it's all person and situation dependent. I just have no problem recommending that someone who is trying to lose fat do cardio after lifting because I've seen many people achieve great results doing so, but I have yet to see anyone who utilized such an approach with proper diet and such end up looking "bad" in the end. There are certainly risks involved, but I just can't see them being greater than the reward compared with no cardio. I'm not stating fact, merely my opinions.

I know, this isn't going to get you to agree, just stating my case. :D

Well....I'm cutting with zero cardio right now. :D

Well....I'm cutting with zero cardio right now. :D
I've done that before too. Works well, especially for muscle retention/gaining, just much slower for me. Then again, I don't have 436 pounds of muslce on my frame to burn so many calories each day. :p

There was a research wrap up in the last issue of M&F that tested Growth Hormone levels in people when they did cardio before lifting and then compaired it to those who did cardio after lifting.

The GH levels were much higher in those who did cardio after lifting.

I am not saying this means anything - just a bit o research.

There was a research wrap up in the last issue of M&F that tested Growth Hormone levels in people when they did cardio before lifting and then compaired it to those who did cardio after lifting.

The GH levels were much higher in those who did cardio after lifting.

I am not saying this means anything - just a bit o research.
Don't get your research material from Muscle and Fiction. :)

(Not saying it's not true, just saying...)

Don't get your research material from Muscle and Fiction. :)

(Not saying it's not true, just saying...)

Funny, my one friend who is in insane shape calls it "Myths and Fiction"

I've not been doing this stuff as long as some of the others here, and my opinions are based on relatively limited experience. But FWIW -- I've developed a sense of priority for my lifting, on the day. So, the thing that would make me feel most uneasy would be a heavy session of cardio BEFORE my lifting, with insufficient time to recover fully.

My question is whether I should try to bring a protein shake with me to the gym to drink after my lifting and before my cardio session. I think that this may make me feel a little better during my cardio and prevent any muscle loss.



I actually joined the forum just to respond to this thread - partly because this is the way I'm currently training. My twin pennies - a protein shake before your cardio is not going to prevent muscle loss - it's going to go straight into fueling your cardio session. Not like your body's going to say "hey, I know I'm running on this treadmill thingie and need energy, but I'm going to dip into the fat stores, and oh BTW also start building some muscle with this whey protein sitting in my belly" - right? Do your cardio, and have a protein shake right after - I go 25g P/25g C immediately after and then another 25/25 within 60 minutes.

I've been doing early morning fasted weights then cardio for 10 weeks - measured bodyfat using three different techniques - trend is the same - lost ~7 lbs fat, gained ~2 lbs muscle.

Is weights then cardio an ideal way to lean down? Maybe, maybe not. Well, all I know is - it's ideal for me given the "other constraints" of my life. It works for me. CASD hits the nail on the head when he says if you're losing muscle training this way, try eating more; I would add take a look at your workouts too. If you're going way over 45 minutes with your weights, then yeah adding in cardio afterwards will probably crucify your LBM. I do 30 - 45 minutes of cardio post-workout with a moderate to moderate-high intensity, but my weight sessions are packed into 25 minutes (excluding warm-ups, that's all weights, all work sets, maximum rest between sets around 25 seconds).

I go weights then cardio so I still have my glycogen stores for the weight session, and hopefully I burn proportionally more fat during cardio because my glycogen stores are low. (And hopefully that coffee/green tea is having a protein-sparing effect...)

Good luck, stick with it, and monitor your bodyfat and LBM! If it's working, keep at it, if not, change it!

One other thing - I do not run for cardio (okay I ran once, but I have to do a 2-mile run once every 6 months so I like to make sure I remember how). Anecdotally, running will (a) crucify your squat, and (b) cause you to cannibalize lean muscle. (For the scientists, I cannot prove this with a pen and scratch paper, but give me an etch-a-sketch and I will try to doodle something. My opinion is the body adapts to the running load by trying to lighten its load by losing fat and discarding muscle and being more efficient with the remaining muscle. Why it does not seem to do this with other forms of cardio...I will have to get out my 64-box of crayons and get back to you. Trust me, though. I have anecdotes.)

I don't think it should be much of an issue. If you do cardio after a training session, your glycogen stores are likely to be fairly depleted so you'll burn more fat. This is also the goal in doing fasted cardio, so why should it be any different? If anything, the added bloodflow to your muscles after a weight training workout should be beneficial for maintaining the muscle.

cajunman, i'm glad this thread motivated you to join the forum, because your posts were hilarious :lol: . Good points too...I'm about to start a couple weeks of lifting then cardio, so I guess I should probably keep an eye on the LBM and adjust calories accordingly.

I second Elisha Cuthbert... WOW!

I wouldn't worry about it. Do not get caught up in the minutiae of lifting and cardio.

AST/Max-OT recommends a Pro/Carb/Creatine shake pre and post cardio ? something like pro 25g 5g carb 5g creatine ..I started this last thursday Which I'm using Meta-Cel (Creatine/carb product) and Whey in 16 oz. water.. but I'm doing it with caution so I'm drinking half..8oz before and after.. So far so good..
I'm also going to zig zag my cals. and try to do cardio after weights again.. but keep it short and sweet..20-25 min of 65-70% HR..
I'll start this tomorrow..

Great...now I'm confused all over again. Currently I do 4 days lifting followed by 45 mins cardio. One day of long cardio Tennis, and another of 45 mins. I won't get up in the morning....lack of dedication...I don't know but its not happening. I could do longer lifting and compress to three days, then 4 days of just cardio...I don't know..I'll maybe change something when my weight plateaus. Too many decisions.

One other thing - I do not run for cardio (okay I ran once, but I have to do a 2-mile run once every 6 months so I like to make sure I remember how). Anecdotally, running will (a) crucify your squat, and (b) cause you to cannibalize lean muscle. (For the scientists, I cannot prove this with a pen and scratch paper, but give me an etch-a-sketch and I will try to doodle something. My opinion is the body adapts to the running load by trying to lighten its load by losing fat and discarding muscle and being more efficient with the remaining muscle. Why it does not seem to do this with other forms of cardio...I will have to get out my 64-box of crayons and get back to you. Trust me, though. I have anecdotes.)

I agree...Cardio can be alot of different activitys. And they will have different effects on your muscles and your body. Running long distances at high/medium intensity will overtrain your leg muscles. Your leg muscles will not get a chance to recover and grow if your goal is to build big muscular legs. If you are doing alot of heavy leg training it will in some ways be wasted work if you also do long distance running every day.

Some people might not be interested in becoming body builders and dont have the goal to become as big as possible. And in that case the legs might get firm and lean and look muscular even if they are much smaller....if they do alot of running in combination with weight training. But then the goal is not size but overall fitness. However there could still be a problem even for people with that goal. The legs might get much smaller compared to the upper body. IMO, even if you only train for fitness it´s nice if the size of your legs fits the size of your upper body.

I dont do cardio after lifting, well really I dont do cardio, I just ride my excersise bike and soon to start running again.

I somtimes ride the bike for about 15 minutes after lifting though, just to get a few calories out of my system, and to work all over leg strength a little (which is working)