Hey guys (& gals),

I think most people realize they can't be as big as Ronnie Coleman once they start training, but in all honesty, how far could most people go? What are some classic examples of `old-school', natural bodybuilders, and what were their nutrition and training like?
I know genetics play an important role, but it seems these days whenever someone is `big', steroids had a role to play. Even Arnie, one of the most iconic lifters of our time, hit the roids. I mean, how much time and money would you need to spend to be built like Mentzer, if you could at all?

I don't have nay pics to provide but in regards to your mike mentzer question, he combined both superb genetics and drug use, so the average person without drugs would not get close to him, no matter how hard they tried.

I think the average person can look like, with a lot of dedication, the typical guy on the front of men's health. Granted, these guys vary a lot in sizes, but for a lot of us, once you get beyond that fairly typical men's health person, it's taking an incredibly disproportionate amount of energy to do so. Realize I'm talking about good muscle with a low bodyfat. Actually, I just looked at some men's health covers and the guys are a touch skinny. Probably somebody like Skip, who posts on these forums, is about where most people could reasonably expect to get without drugs and a lot of effort. I've been doing it for years and don't look close, but my genetics suck and my approach, more importantly, hasn't been consistent over those years.

But we have to play the hand we're dealt. I've recently gotten hardcore into running because I felt like to get much more muscle was just going to require too much effort and I wasn't sure what the point was anyway. I have enough that if I am thin I look good with a shirt off, so what's the point? I am continuing to lift weights and will hope to put on a bit more size, but given my untrained cardio state previous to the running, I've found it shooting up and I've entered in some local races. It's honestly a lot more fun than just weights alone have been in years. Plus, I can eat like a moron and not get fat!

Hey guys (& gals),

Even Arnie, one of the most iconic lifters of our time, hit the roids. I mean, how much time and money would you need to spend to be built like Mentzer, if you could at all?


I think (I know) it's safe to say EVERY SINGLE professional bodybuilder (with the exception of those who compete in tested events) uses a combination of genetics and drugs to get the results required to compete at the pro level. There is just no way around it.

Mentzer took drugs? I guess I was somewhat naiive to think he was before the drug era :/

I think the average person can look like, with a lot of dedication, the typical guy on the front of men's health. Granted, these guys vary a lot in sizes, but for a lot of us, once you get beyond that fairly typical men's health person, it's taking an incredibly disproportionate amount of energy to do so.
How much `disproportionate expended energy' are we talking about? Expensive supps, half a dozen steaks a day and a sedentary lifestyle?
I went and read some stuff on Skip LaCour, and he seems legitimately drug-free, but he's huge! His articles (ignoring product placement reminiscent of all motivational figureheads) make sense and are good reads, yet it says he works out an hour a day. His (posted) nutrition is unusual, but aside from that, he seems like the rest of us, just more successful :wtf:

I think (I know) it's safe to say EVERY SINGLE professional bodybuilder (with the exception of those who compete in tested events) uses a combination of genetics and drugs to get the results required to compete at the pro level. There is just no way around it.
Do those `high-ranking' competitions condone the use of drugs, or just ignore it? Where in the competition `hierarchy' do drugs usually start to play a role?

Reg Park:

http://www.robertuniverse.com/bodybuildinglegends/images/parkdoublebicep.jpg

Steve Reeves:

http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/reeves/sr1.jpg

http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/reeves/sr15.jpg

Mentzer took drugs? I guess I was somewhat naiive to think he was before the drug era :/


How much `disproportionate expended energy' are we talking about? Expensive supps, half a dozen steaks a day and a sedentary lifestyle?
I went and read some stuff on Skip LaCour, and he seems legitimately drug-free, but he's huge! His articles (ignoring product placement reminiscent of all motivational figureheads) make sense and are good reads, yet it says he works out an hour a day. His (posted) nutrition is unusual, but aside from that, he seems like the rest of us, just more successful :wtf:


Do those `high-ranking' competitions condone the use of drugs, or just ignore it? Where in the competition `hierarchy' do drugs usually start to play a role?


Mike Mentzer DEFINETELY used steroids along with EVERY SINGLE top bodybuilder of that era. Anabolics not only aid in muscle development but also allow a person to maintain muscle mass while cutting down to rididulously low BF%. In the 70's (as well as today) it would just be impossible to compete in events like the Olympia without chemical enhancement. Bodybuilding is the only "sport" to turn a blind eye to steroid use unless the competition is designated "natural" in which case competitors are tested.
I'll repeat this. EVERY PRO BODYBUILDER USES ANABOLIC STEROIDS unless they compete in "natural" tested events. To think otherwise is just naiive.

Reg Park:

http://www.robertuniverse.com/bodybuildinglegends/images/parkdoublebicep.jpg

Steve Reeves:

http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/reeves/sr1.jpg

http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/reeves/sr15.jpg


Yes, these guys look great however they couldn't step onstage with todays pros.:nono:

Yes, these guys look great however they couldn't step onstage with todays pros.:nono:

Oh I wasn't suggesting that in the least....I was answering more of this question:

how far could most people go? What are some classic examples of `old-school', natural bodybuilders, and what were their nutrition and training like?

I think these are more "classic" examples and this is before the information that we have today regarding training and nutrition....so potentially they'd look even better.

No one is going to look like a pro.... except the natural pros in tested competition (I completely agree there and in some ways that requires even MORE discipline than say an IFBB pro because timing, nutrition and training is so critical....they can't really "let themselves go" in the off season so much. I think Mastover could better answer this though.