Hey BigDog: I'm wondering about rowing after big leg workouts too. I almost always do a good deal of leg work even in uppers workouts these days.

How long were you rowing to get to where you are now?

Hey BigDog: I'm wondering about rowing after big leg workouts too. I almost always do a good deal of leg work even in uppers workouts these days.

How long were you rowing to get to where you are now?

in the interest of full disclosure, I have never been on a boat while rowing for fitness. I don't claim to be an expert in it, it's just that it is my cardio of choice. It's a great way to get cardio as it incorporates your entire body. Great workout.

I have owned the Concept 2 erg for about 4 years. For a reasonable portion of that, it wasn't used enough, but I've been very consistent on it for the past 15 months or so. I mix it in with running and other things during the summer, so I get a pretty well rounded cardio experience.

Like all other cardio, it's part of the equation. It's not the entire story. So even last year, when I did the Thanksgiving to X-mas 200k challenge I was fat. I could row a long way (and reasonably fast as well), but I was fat. Some of those meters are based on momentum rather than fitness. Diet and lifting were key to getting leaner (-42 lbs since Jan 13, 2005) but maintaining the cardio base was also important to me.

I do HIIT and LISS, depending on time and goals desired that day. HIIT can be a real monster. I had a stretch where I was worried that my cardio was being slightly neglected, so I cranked it up to the point where I did it every day. In less than 2 weeks, I had set a few new personal bests on the erg - so that makes me pretty pleased.

Like anything, it takes time. I give a few pieces of advice, that are universal, for the most part:

1. Work on form, the speed and power will come after you get a good sense of it. Critical not just for preventing injury, but getting maximum results later. Use your legs a lot.
2. Intervals are great. Do them. A lot.
3. Be consistent.
4. Don't make this- or any one thing - your entire program. You get better impact from different kinds of exercise.
5. Get a good radio or TV. Rowing is a lot of things, but it doesn't give a lot of visual stimulation.

I've been very consistent on it for the past 15 months or so. I mix it in with running and other things during the summer, so I get a pretty well rounded cardio experience.

I do HIIT and LISS

1. Work on form, the speed and power will come after you get a good sense of it. Critical not just for preventing injury, but getting maximum results later. Use your legs a lot.
2. Intervals are great. Do them. A lot.
3. Be consistent.
4. Don't make this- or any one thing - your entire program. You get better impact from different kinds of exercise.
5. Get a good radio or TV. Rowing is a lot of things, but it doesn't give a lot of visual stimulation.

I've been doing a lot of torso and core work for the past year so I expect to have good form; I won't settle for less. I need a back injury like, um, NOT.

I don't do LISS any more. Either HIIT or HISS. The time I spend working out below 80% MHR is essentially all lifting.

I'm definitely good for not making rowing the whole program - I just want to add another cardio variation that I can do at home indoors.

I have a good radio. But even at that it can't be any less interesting than doing squats for cardio.

I've been thinking about the momentum meters you mentioned. I suppose the cure for that is to go faster. Faster momentum exchange requires more power, and the fluid resistance ought to increase really quickly with speed.

Well I guess I'll find out tomorrow.

I've been doing a lot of torso and core work for the past year so I expect to have good form; I won't settle for less. I need a back injury like, um, NOT.

I don't do LISS any more. Either HIIT or HISS. The time I spend working out below 80% MHR is essentially all lifting.

I'm definitely good for not making rowing the whole program - I just want to add another cardio variation that I can do at home indoors.

I have a good radio. But even at that it can't be any less interesting than doing squats for cardio.

I've been thinking about the momentum meters you mentioned. I suppose the cure for that is to go faster. Faster momentum exchange requires more power, and the fluid resistance ought to increase really quickly with speed.

Well I guess I'll find out tomorrow.

Form won't be a matter of strength for you, just technique. It takes a little while for some people to get it coordinated.

90+ % of the time I have some form of intervals in there. My "slow row" is 1 minute hard, 2.5-3.0 min slower. LISS is for days when I'm beat up from lifting, primarily.

I'm interested in how the waterwheel works. There may not be as many mo-meters. On the other hand, I also know when I'm working hard and when I'm gliding too much. That, you will figure out with a little practice.

It's a really good way to work the cardio. And, as you say, more interesting than squats (that still amazes me).

Form won't be a matter of strength for you, just technique. It takes a little while for some people to get it coordinated.

90+ % of the time I have some form of intervals in there. My "slow row" is 1 minute hard, 2.5-3.0 min slower. LISS is for days when I'm beat up from lifting, primarily.

I'm interested in how the waterwheel works. There may not be as many mo-meters. On the other hand, I also know when I'm working hard and when I'm gliding too much. That, you will figure out with a little practice.

It's a really good way to work the cardio. And, as you say, more interesting than squats (that still amazes me).

The form thing I expect to pick up quick. Fencing was quite technical. None of the stuff I've done since is close. Being old is a drag, but having a lot of experience to draw on ought to help. The rowers have apparently borrowed the advice "like holding a small bird in your hand - tight enough that it can't escape but loose enough that it can live" from fencing. And the trick to that one is that it's really about relaxing the hand while exerting enough force - most coaches forget to tell you that hand strength is required for that.

I definitely think intervals will be the way to start. Pacing myself will be one thing that I have no idea about in the beginning other than by heart rate. But I think the muscle fatigue should be tractable; so going by heart rate should do. The insidious thing will be if there is some tiny muscle that hasn't been trained yet that gets hit by the rowing and I won't know that until the next day when I wake up screaming....

As to the mo-meters, I actually think there will be lots, because that's actually the way rowing works at lower speed. From what I've read, letting the boat run long enough is important for effective rowing. It's possible that you are not giving yourself enough credit for stuff that would work on a real boat.

The water thing felt nice in the store. It has a smooth catch. The only thing I'm apprehensive about is that the footboard is pretty narrow and my quads are slightly thicker than normal.

The squats thing is just something that you can do if you want to. So far nobody has come up with any actual objection to that exercise for cardio. It's low impact, high calorie per rep, so it should be real easy on the joints. Plus, lifting weights is actually pretty enjoyable.

The form thing I expect to pick up quick. Fencing was quite technical. None of the stuff I've done since is close. Being old is a drag, but having a lot of experience to draw on ought to help. The rowers have apparently borrowed the advice "like holding a small bird in your hand - tight enough that it can't escape but loose enough that it can live" from fencing. And the trick to that one is that it's really about relaxing the hand while exerting enough force - most coaches forget to tell you that hand strength is required for that.

I definitely think intervals will be the way to start. Pacing myself will be one thing that I have no idea about in the beginning other than by heart rate. But I think the muscle fatigue should be tractable; so going by heart rate should do. The insidious thing will be if there is some tiny muscle that hasn't been trained yet that gets hit by the rowing and I won't know that until the next day when I wake up screaming....

As to the mo-meters, I actually think there will be lots, because that's actually the way rowing works at lower speed. From what I've read, letting the boat run long enough is important for effective rowing. It's possible that you are not giving yourself enough credit for stuff that would work on a real boat.

The water thing felt nice in the store. It has a smooth catch. The only thing I'm apprehensive about is that the footboard is pretty narrow and my quads are slightly thicker than normal.

The squats thing is just something that you can do if you want to. So far nobody has come up with any actual objection to that exercise for cardio. It's low impact, high calorie per rep, so it should be real easy on the joints. Plus, lifting weights is actually pretty enjoyable.

Agreed on all counts- apologies if you mistook what I said to mean that I thought you would have a hard time with it. It's not an unusually hard motion, just different for a lot of people who don't use their upper body in cardio. But if you can do a squat, or a lunge then you have the requirements for rowing.

Also agreed that on a boat, the glide during the recovery momentum, what I meant was that before, if I got tired, I could sort of push myself a short way, and then basically use that momentum to put my back in position to pull more than it should (you will feel the difference) without it ruining my time. I have noticed that I can't do that anymore without it slowing me down. It was a sort of step function, where once I got below about 215, it really didn't work for me to do that. I don't know why it's a threshold thing.

It's great cardio - especially when you are lifting. No impact makes a big difference in the quality of the week as a whole. I'm very interested in how you like it.

OK...stupid question but I've tried rowing...and I like it b/c I have arch issues. The thing is...I'm not sure if I'm rowing correctly, sometimes I push off, then pull, other times, my back is straight....then I lean back, other times I'm forward(during the initial push) then I lean back....basically I'm all over the place.....is there "one" correct way to row?

OK...stupid question but I've tried rowing...and I like it b/c I have arch issues. The thing is...I'm not sure if I'm rowing correctly, sometimes I push off, then pull, other times, my back is straight....then I lean back, other times I'm forward(during the initial push) then I lean back....basically I'm all over the place.....is there "one" correct way to row?

Drive with the legs, then continue that through your "lean" then (and only then) use your arms. I find it's helpful to try to feel myself pushing off of the heel and midfoot, as opposed to the ball of the foot.

I think technique does matter in terms of injury prevention/not overstressing the back, as well as getting good times. For more info, check out concept2.com for technique info - it's a good website.

Well it came today and I rowed it. I just did a little test, so I don't know what will be a serious workout. I think the thing is going to be a good workout though, I got up to 173 on the heart monitor. I rowed 2km in 7:35 if the little computer is to be believed.

As I suspected, it feels like a great exercise for me above the waist because the arm row is great for retracting shoulder blades, breathing, and core.

There isn't that much resistance for the leg drive though. Obviously it's not like squats but I thought I would get more drive in there. I guess I'll work on the technique end of that - I think I could really rip if I could get my legs fully engaged.

I found this site:

http://home.hia.no/~stephens/rowphys.htm

It's good to see a thread about rowing! As a former oarsmen, I can attest to the effectiveness of these workouts. I have tried out several of the rowing machines on the market and the Concept II line is the closest to the "real thing".

Zen, you mentioned a lack of resistance in the leg drive. That sounds like a technique issue. I would imagine that probably 3/4 of a rower's power comes from leg drive. That is why they developed the sliding seat for the racing shells.

I haven't rowed competitively in almost 10 years but I am trying to get back into it through the use of the Concept II at my gym and ultimately finding a rowing club in my area to join and get back on the water. It really is a great sport and can keep you fit at any age.

I was just on Concept 2s website...they had the video on technique I was looking for. I think I sorta have it down, but for some reason when I try to go faster I sorta get out of sync or something. I really like rowing, although I just started, I have arch issues in my feet and its the one exercise I can do with no issues. Bik machines hurt the booty and I'm definately not well endowed in that area but dang......too much pressure...anyhoo they also have workouts on the Concept websites so I will be trying those and using rowing for my LISS cardio at least 2x week,hopefully I can build up to 45 minutes pretty quickly.

BigDog: For your HIIT rowing, are you keeping track of intensity via wattage? If so, what wattages and for how long? I think I need to change my parameters up...I'm getting HIIT rowing fatigue.

Zen, you mentioned a lack of resistance in the leg drive. That sounds like a technique issue. I would imagine that probably 3/4 of a rower's power comes from leg drive. That is why they developed the sliding seat for the racing shells.

I appreciate any advice from rowers; I am sure that it is a technique issue given that I have good general strength and fitness in the core and arms, as well as very good strength and endurance in the legs and back.

I tried stiff-arm rowing drills in the last workout and it might have helped, I can't really tell. My 2000m time has come down to 7:18, and my one minute ("Debbie Flood BBC Sports Academy challenge) has improved to where I equal her distance (331 meters). But I've been rowing for less than a week and I expect technique to improve a lot.

Tonight is another big rowing workout day so I'll try and get in both a 2000m time (I start each workout with that) and then intervals.

So today I rowed 10k in 44:50 and yesterday I did it in 44:09.

Today I lowered the foot position and used a shorter stroke with a higher reat, and yesterday I did it with a lower rate stroke but more "effort" on the pulls, and feet up higher to lengthen the leg drive.

I think it might actually be better for me to lower the feet because the quads might be in a better range of motion for leverage. It seems to me it's analogous to a squat - if you go all the way down then you can't squat as much weight because the quad is in a weaker position.

Does this sound right?

If so is there a way to figure out the best height for the feet?

BigDog: For your HIIT rowing, are you keeping track of intensity via wattage? If so, what wattages and for how long? I think I need to change my parameters up...I'm getting HIIT rowing fatigue.

I don't usually track wattage - I use th 500 splits and strokes/min to track.

I use a few variations for HIIT pacing:
1. 15 min total: 3 min at easy 1:55: then a pattern of 15 second intervals (1:35-1:40), followed by 30 seconds easy (1:55) (and then back to the 15 second interval until done).

2. 18 min total: 3 min easy followed by 1.5 min intervals (1:40-1:45), followed by 1.5 min easy.

3. Longer rows: 3 min easy, then 1:20 hard (1:45-1:48 at the slowest) followed by 2:40 easier (1:52 or so).


There are other variations as well.
I'll look at my wattages next time, and report back.

I think that with HIIT it's really important to vary the length of the intervals from day to day - otherwise you are conditioning for only one length of intensity. I'm certainly not a true expert, but since I started changing my HIIT patterns every time I did it, I have noticed that I am in much better CV shape.

A fellow Waterrower user has posed the following challenge:

200 (Concept 2) km from New Year's Day (Jan 1) to (Chinese) New Year's Day (Jan 29).

Waterrower S3 monitor users row 140km

Waterrower S4 monitor users row 180km

The guy who posed the challenge is involved in the software that converts Waterrower results to Concept 2 results, so I assume these numbers come from that work.

(On the other hand I think I myself will row 200km on the Waterrower S4. Nothing wrong with a little extra workout.)

Five (out of five) Waterrowers have finished the New Year's to Chinese New Year's Challenge. No T-shirt, but a nice row.

To anyone who rowed along "at home" so to speak, congratulations!