More condemnation of grain fed beef, what most of us eat. Also some nasty stuff about irradiation of our food supply.

http://www.marunde-muscle.com/articles/grain_fed_cattle.html

Another great article by Jesse Marunde on grass fed beef:

http://www.marunde-muscle.com/articles/grassfed.html

I'm not convinced

Harvard scientists found that women who had grain fed beef as a daily main dish were two and a half times more likely to develop colon cancer than did those who ate grain fed beef less than once a month. The conclusions are drawn from a study of 88,751 nurses that was begun in 1980. The consumption of grain fed beef has also been linked to heart disease, high blood pressure, and strokes.
The consumption of BEEF has been linked to heart disease, high blood pressure, and strokes. It's not the grain that's bad.

I'm not convinced

The consumption of BEEF has been linked to heart disease, high blood pressure, and strokes. It's not the grain that's bad.

So you think grass fed beef is bad, and the same as grain fed?

So you think grass fed beef is bad, and the same as grain fed?
grass fed bad? Every day, yes
same as grain fed? I suppose not.

grass fed bad? Every day, yes
same as grain fed? I suppose not.

Why do you believe grass fed beef is bad?

Mostly because overconsumption of red meat leaves no room in my diet for the other nutrients that I need.

A significant amount of population-based research indicates that consumption of a diet high in total and saturated fat is associated with an increased risk for several medical conditions, such as obesity, heart disease, high blood pressure, insulin resistance, gallbladder disease, and certain cancers (for example, breast, colon, and prostate cancers).

A healthy low-fat diet emphasizes the consumption of whole grains, beans, fruits, and vegetables, as well as small amounts of healthy sources of fat including raw nuts, raw seeds, vegetable oils (particulary monounsaturated oils like olive oil, and oils rich in omega 3 fats such as flaxseed oil and soybean oil), and cold water fish including salmon, herring, and mackerel. (Source: World's Healthiest Foods) (http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=faq&dbid=3)

Mostly because overconsumption of red meat leaves no room in my diet for the other nutrients that I need.

A significant amount of population-based research indicates that consumption of a diet high in total and saturated fat is associated with an increased risk for several medical conditions, such as obesity, heart disease, high blood pressure, insulin resistance, gallbladder disease, and certain cancers (for example, breast, colon, and prostate cancers).

A healthy low-fat diet emphasizes the consumption of whole grains, beans, fruits, and vegetables, as well as small amounts of healthy sources of fat including raw nuts, raw seeds, vegetable oils (particulary monounsaturated oils like olive oil, and oils rich in omega 3 fats such as flaxseed oil and soybean oil), and cold water fish including salmon, herring, and mackerel. (Source: World's Healthiest Foods) (http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=faq&dbid=3)

Overconsumption of red meat was not the question. I asked why you believe grass fed beef is bad.

That quote says nothing about grass fed beef or even beef at all. I believe that first paragraph is refering to trans fats which have been catergorized as saturated fats for many years. Research that sullies sat fat would more accurately portray trans fats as the villian if a differientation were drawn.

Naturally saturated fats are very good for you and have the exact opposite effects of those you've quoted.

Also I am shocked to see they recommend eating soybean oil!

Another fan of Weston A Price :tu: His book is awesome. Too bad it's damn hard to eat like that nowadays, close, but not quite. For one you cant get raw milk, and everything else that's wild is polluted in some way. Crap even the peoples living in the Arctic have to worry about high levels of mercury now building up in their food. Major bummer, but what can you do? It's never going to change.

I always find it amusing when people vilify meat/fat but seem to forget the fact that even folks living in isolated areas nowadays consume almost exclusively animal products and do not suffer the multitude of degenerative diseases that most of the world's population does. Then again, you have the Okinawans who eat little meat but are some of the healthiest on the planet and live the longest. Studies can have many variables and be slanted this way and that. It's all about surveying the many different sides to the story and finding the conclusion that seems logical to you. It comes down alot of the time to processed food and macronutrients, IMO.

Personally, I believe it's when you combine carbohydrates and fat that you run into problems. Because sugar is easy/quick to digest and fat is not, the fat gets put on the back burner (arteries and your gut).

I DON'T believe grass fed beef is bad. I believe eating any kind of beef every day is bad. Why are you putting words in my mouth?

Sorry, here's the part it mentions about beef:
Low-fat diets often exclude or limit red meats, whole fat dairy products (butter, milk, yogurt, heavy cream and ice cream), mayonnaise, margarine, and salad dressings. from the page Low Fat Diet (http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=diet&dbid=11).

MOST dietitians will recommend that you include soybean oil as part of your diet. I'm sure you're shocked that I prefer canola.

Personally, I believe it's when you combine carbohydrates and fat that you run into problems. Because sugar is easy/quick to digest and fat is not, the fat gets put on the back burner (arteries and your gut).

whaaa?

Sorry, here's the part it mentions about beef:
[I]Low-fat diets often exclude or limit red meats, whole fat dairy products (butter, milk, yogurt, heavy cream and ice cream), mayonnaise, margarine, and salad dressings.

that doesn't really mean anything, if it fits into your own daily cal's/macro's then this is completely irrelevant

Sorry, should have clarified. For example, if you eat a sizeable meal of pasta and fatty beef together in a short amount of time, than your body's probably going to use that carbohydrate first before it really touches the fat. Meanwhile it stores the fat for future use in various parts of the body. Especially if you're used to eating alot of carbs all your life and dont stimulate your muscles regularly, like many Westerners, than your body begins to prefer to use carbs as fuel.


On another note, heart disease, along with cancer was extremely rare at the turn of the century. I find it amazing that in less than 100 years it became the number 1 killer (now cancer is) of Americans. I mean, that's pretty crazy. I dont think it's a coincidence that the rise of those diseases paralleled the declining use of natural fats such as butter, while at the same time the use of vegetable oils rose dramatically, as well as the increase in processed foods and sugar. Alot of the people and kids who came down with acute disease such as tuberculosis or arthritis were eating skim milk and white flour and were too poor to afford better (reminds me of my days growing up living off of oatmeal). That probably made them not strong enough to fight off infection in the face of unsanitary living conditions.. Maybe now we dont get malnourished so easily because we "enrich" and "fortify" those types of empty foods with vitamins. Whole foods on the other hand, especially animal foods, naturally contain these vital nutrients.

My point though is that I dont think the blame should be squarly placed on animal fat, or specifically saturated fat.

http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=21929

grass fed bad? Every day, yes
same as grain fed? I suppose not.

I wasn't putting words in your mouth. I thought you meant you thought it was bad every day, not you thought eating it every day was bad. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I think you have some great nutritional beliefs. I just think your understanding of a few key areas could be updated is all. Especially regarding grass fed beef, and naturally saturated fats vs. the unstable processed man made poly-unsaturates you are so fond of. Know your fats!

The interesting thing about comparing death rates today to those at the turn of the century is that people are living in very different conditions, and are also living much longer. Not only has the food they eat changed considerably, but so has the conditions they work in and live, and the way they spend their leisure time. But another significant factor is simply that the population is aging. People who live longer are most likely to get sick than people who die. In 1900, the life expectancy was 47 years vs 77 years in 2000. Not surprising that there's more cancer and heart disease around.

I try to follow the nutritional advice that makes the most sense to me, and at present, the majority of studies indicate that vegetable oil is GOOD and red meat is BAD. I sure will keep my ears open for new findings however. Thanks Travis.

People who live longer are most likely to get sick than people who die..

:lol: This just struck me as funny. I know what you mean though.

The interesting thing about comparing death rates today to those at the turn of the century is that people are living in very different conditions, and are also living much longer. Not only has the food they eat changed considerably, but so has the conditions they work in and live, and the way they spend their leisure time. But another significant factor is simply that the population is aging. People who live longer are most likely to get sick than people who die. In 1900, the life expectancy was 47 years vs 77 years in 2000. Not surprising that there's more cancer and heart disease around.

I try to follow the nutritional advice that makes the most sense to me, and at present, the majority of studies indicate that vegetable oil is GOOD and red meat is BAD. I sure will keep my ears open for new findings however. Thanks Travis.

This has become a very interesting conversation, albeit not exactly about grass fed beef!

To address the idea of yours about the average age at the turn of the century in 1900 vs 2000, I would say that doesn't hold water in regards to degenerative disease. Infectious disease had a higher mortality rate due to sanitary conditions, child mortality was higher, infant mortality was higher, as well as many more deaths by war and accidents than we have in our safe North American society today. Degenerative diseases like heart disease and cancer were almost unheard of. People did live to old age. No one died back then of heart disease or cancer in their 40's, 50's, or anytime at all like we do today. The old people back then were hearty and if they made it to 65 they could still work the farm and they could easily make 90 in good health. How many 90 year olds do you know today? It is an embarassment to Western Medecine and our society that the average life expectancy today is 77! We live in a safe society, have abundant resources and people only live 77 years on average! That is very sad, 77 should be 30 years from death in our advanced society today. It is this way because we have an epidemic of DEGENERATIVE disease. It is related to processed man made food. NOT NATURAL FOOD! Society is in denial about our food supply, it is poisoned by unsustainable and toxic practices. We need to change this state of affairs and it can only be done 1 person at a time. Do not support genetic modification of our food supply, do not buy irradiated foods, do not buy processed foods, do buy local produce and pastured meat and eggs from conscientious local biodynamic farmers. Join a CSA. Join the Weston Price Foundation. Write your congressman. Fight for your right to raw milk and unadulterated natural foods. Oh yeah, LIFT HEAVY ASS WEIGHTS!

I'd be happy to point you in the direction of studies supporting this if you need that. I wish you would read Nourishing Traditions though, it has a LOT of studies supporting this hypothesis in there. It is just so obvious when you look at it you'll never believe you thought otherwise before.

Assumption Junction, what's your function?

Seriously, though, Guava makes some awesome points here. Science by its very nature is objective and unbiased. Problem is, people often approach subjects with an emotional attachment to certain ideas, and then suddenly they start manipulating data to support their pet causes. Instead of seeing a difference in death rate and trying to extrapolate all the possible causes, someone just jumps to the conclusion that they want to see.

In short, there is no bad science, only bad scientists.

And while I do firmly support the superiority of all-natural meat, poultry, and seafood to conventional products in terms of nutrition, taste, and texture, I don't think there's something inherently magical about grass-fed beef.

As a general rule, at least from what we carry in my meat market, the grass-fed beef is smaller and leaner with noticably less marbling. From my personal testing this has a noticeable effect on taste. Simply put, I prefer our wonderful, all-natural, free-roaming, grain-fed beef.

It's yummy.

And I eat lean red meat every day and feel great.:tu:

To address the idea of yours about the average age at the turn of the century in 1900 vs 2000, I would say that doesn't hold water in regards to degenerative disease.
On the contrary, increase in life expectancy holds a lot of water in terms of increased prevalence of degenerative diseases. The science of aging itself is based on the foundation that after a certain point in a person’s life (typically mid-twenties) our cells stop reproducing at increased rate. Reproduction rate levels off, then begins to decline. Further, cell reproduction becomes less efficient and errors in DNA replication are more likely to occur (hence, mutations in the cells). Enter: Cancer.
Degenerative diseases like heart disease and cancer were almost unheard of. People did live to old age. No one died back then of heart disease or cancer in their 40's, 50's, or anytime at all like we do today.
How do you know? What do you think, people just got to a certain age and croaked? They didn’t have the diagnostic tools back then to determine causes of terminal illnesses like heart disease and cancer. Not everyone died of infections diseases and “accidents” back in the day.
It is an embarassment to Western Medecine and our society that the average life expectancy today is 77!
Are you kidding? Human evolution has been going on for thousands of years. Average life expectancy from the beginning of the century to the turn of the century increased over 50% - In only 100 years. By no means would a lot of experts consider this an embarrassment.

It is this way because we have an epidemic of DEGENERATIVE disease. It is related to processed man made food.
No, it’s not. You can draw all the tangents you want, but degenerative diseases are not caused primarily by processed foods. Our cells get old and screw up, often resulting in degenerative conditions. It's called aging.

I respect your opinions regarding "unadulterated food", but I'd have to say you're making a HUGE overstatement regarding processed food and it's link to degenerative diseases.

I believe the most important processed food here that he is talking about is trans fats. They have been linked to degenerative diseases in a big way. Our consumption of trans fats has exploded in recent years. Theres a lot of threads here discussing them already.

Screw it.

Guess what? We're all destined to do one thing: DIE. I highly doubt my love of a good grain-fed, irradiated, medium-rare steak is going to get me. There are many more prevalent health risks to beware in this world that rank much higher on my list than a good chunk of meat.

-R

Today (1998) heart disease is the #1 killer, followed by cancer as the #2 killer.
It was in 1900: Source: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/lead1900_98.pdf
1. pneumonia/influenzea
2. tuberculosis
3. diarrhea, etc.
4. heart disease
5. stroke
6. nephritis
7. all accidents
8. cancer (all forms)
9. senility
9. diptheria

That's a big rise for heart disease and a HUGE jump in cancer. I may draw correlations that are hard to empirically prove. These are my OPINIONS and that is all. Each will draw his/her own conclusions. I believe our modern diet has a lot to do with this- yes mostly trans fats in regards to heart disease and cancer. But I also think a poor diet of the animals I eat can lead to the same.