I'm usually a lurker, but I thought I'd ask this..
Here's my problem -

On my dad's side of the family, there's a problem of poor blood circulation in the hands.
So when it's even slightly cold outside, for example, my dad's hands will lose all circulation, hurt like hell, and then go numb.
My grandpa also had it...

I started noticing it with me last winter.
My hands will start to sting if it's less than 40 degrees out and i'm not wearing gloves.
Maybe this is simply "normal" for someone's hands to sting under 40, but i'm paranoid.

My great grandpa died at 73 from a heart condition
My grandpa just died this past easter at 73 from a heart condition
I dont think my dad will even make it to 73 because of his smoking, quarter pounder w/cheese habits....



Err... ya... so what kinds of things can i do to perminatly increase my blood flow?



I've heard 1 asprin/day for it's blood thinning effects...
What else should i look into?
Cardio? backwards HIIT?
Living past 73 should be the least of my worries with stuff like bird flu, mad cow, and peak oil (http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net)...
but it would be nice if my hands didnt start hurting like crazy everytime i walk outside.

thanks in advance! :sleep:

Arginine is a natural vasodilator and is present in NO products; many people dismiss nitric oxide, but it does have its uses and that's one of them - increased blood flow. You might look into supplementing with it. I've used it a few times in years past and I was pleased with the results.

-R

what kinds of things can i do to perminatly increase my blood flow?

MOST IMPORTANT: DO NOT SMOKE. If you smoke, quit. Smoking is really bad for lots of heath reasons, but specific to circulation it's one of the worst things known.

Then make sure your diet isn't insane. But since you've been around here a long time I expect you know about that.


Then the big thing for better circulation is exercise. Specifically you need exercise which works the heart at all different rates, with bouts of high rate and somewhat forced recovery. You have to get this kind of exercise pretty often - after three days of rest from it you can measure decline.

It does not have to be specifically cardio exercise, but the it has to be exercise where you have a pretty good work load on the circulation to bring systemic fuel to the muscles during the exercise. So if you do only stored glycogen dependent heavy resistance, that won't do much, because all the fuel gets resupplied to the muscles later, not under stress.

Improved circulation is not only due to heart adaptation, but also to adaptation throughout the body (peripheral adaptation). People use "cardio" to refer to some sorts of exercise, but remember it's short for "cardiovascular" and the vascular is as important to your question as the cardio part. They go hand in hand, for most people.

I know you have expressed a lot of muscle loss concerns, so you may want to think about how to get the right dosage of cardio exercise into your routines, but if you have circulation issues, you want to improve your cardioVASCULAR fitness. Simple as that.

So get hold of your MHR, resting heart rate, VO2max, and the lactate and ventilation thresholds. Once you start measuring them, you can see if what you are doing is helping. You want to achieve higher in all those except lower for the resting heart rate.

If you want to improve much of any of these things: LISS cardio won't cut it. LISS is fine for burning calories but really doesn't push the heart or circulation to adapt too much. You can bench an unloaded bar all you want but it only has a small impact on chest hypertrophy. By the same token, you can do LISS all the time and your heart isn't going to hypertrophy, and your arteries and veins aren't going to get very excited either.

HIIT is way better because it trains the heart through a wide range of rates and does work over the ventilation and lactate thresholds. Even the small amount of time HIIT puts big stress on the circulation and heart makes a difference.

The athletes that depend on and train up circulation more than anything are endurance athletes. If you want to jack up your circulation, then you will end up borrowing some of their tricks.

my VO2max is 74. :neener: ;)

my VO2max is 74. :neener: ;)

Then you need to see a doctor about circulation problems if that is what you actually have.

That is a very elite VO2max. At any age. You are not very far from Olympic cross country skiers and marathoners.

Then you need to see a doctor about circulation problems if that is what you actually have.

That is a very elite VO2max. At any age. You are not very far from Olympic cross country skiers and marathoners.
ya, those problems are most-likely what i have looking at family history.

and that VOmax test was done this summer.
it's probably down in the negative numbers now that i've been off my bike for a few months.

Wh0, google "Raynaud's Phenomenon". With your family history this is very likely what you got going on. You should see your doctor to get some blood tests to rule out other causes, i.e. autoimmumne conditions like Lupus, Sjogren's, Polymyositis, etc. Don't worry, you probably don't have a secondary cause but it is best to perform simple blood tests to make sure. In general, this is common and there are some meds that can help with the symptoms. There has even been some recent research on Viagra for this condition.

hmm... weird.
ok, i'll look that up.

i had blood tests done last year and everything came back excellent, and they said i had a 0% chance for heartdisease/failure (which my mommy says is rare to see 0%).

I keep thinking its because i have a low resting heartrate, but i dont think that should effect it.

I'm also considering getting some of that stuff bluestreak recommended.
it would also help with lifting.

I'm usually a lurker, but I thought I'd ask this..

I've heard 1 asprin/day for it's blood thinning effects...


You're a lurker? MMMkkay:confused: :D

I'd probably stay away from the asprin. The positive effects of asprin can be gained by a much smaller dosage then the full pill and unless you were experiencing high blood pressure I wouldn't subject your stomach to the damage that can be caused by asprin.

If you find something that works though, please post it as my girlfriend has the same issue in her hands and feet. She has upped her exercise level significantly, (kickboxing) and it has helped somewhat, but when it is cold out her fingers and toes feel sore and begin to numb.

I keep thinking its because i have a low resting heartrate, but i dont think that should effect it.

The high VO2max is closely related to the low resting heart rate.

Wh0, google "Raynaud's Phenomenon". With your family history this is very likely what you got going on. You should see your doctor to get some blood tests to rule out other causes, i.e. autoimmumne conditions like Lupus, Sjogren's, Polymyositis, etc. Don't worry, you probably don't have a secondary cause but it is best to perform simple blood tests to make sure. In general, this is common and there are some meds that can help with the symptoms. There has even been some recent research on Viagra for this condition.


These suggestions and advice sound good to me.
I have Raynaud’s Syndrome. Perhaps I simply missed it in the previous posts but I note that you make no mention of discoloration of the affected area. For me at least one of the most distinct characteristics of this condition is, in addition to numbness, the feeling of severe cold and the odd sensation in what ever extremity is involved, hands/feet, the construction of the blood vessels which causes a very distinct pallor. The hands/feet become ‘deathly’ white. When warm water or mild heat is applied and as the vessels relax and blood flow returns, I generally experience a stinging feeling until normal circulation and color return. :)

Wh0areume, since when are you a lurker?

For me at least one of the most distinct characteristics of this condition is, in addition to numbness, the feeling of severe cold and the odd sensation in what ever extremity is involved, hands/feet, the construction of the blood vessels which causes a very distinct pallor. The hands/feet become ‘deathly’ white. When warm water or mild heat is applied and as the vessels relax and blood flow returns, I generally experience a stinging feeling until normal circulation and color return. :)

Yikes! I always thought this was just normal because it's always happened to me when I get cold. It's a little better when I eat better, and when I keep moving.
Mmmmmm, warm bath..... :)
So I guess this means that most people don't have this.:confused:

How do I get my VOmax tested, and is this related to circulation?

My doctor commented on my "ultra slow pulse" and called me a "vampire's dream" because of my visible veins. I kept complaining to him that I'm always cold. To bed, I wear socks, plus a t-shirt and a sweatshirt over a long nightie and under a thick blanket, quilt and sheet. (Actually, that's why I work out just before bed. Too keep me warm through the night.) I don't enjoy swimming pools because I shiver the whole time. When I first meet someone, the first thing they say is ALWAYS "Man, you have cold hands!"

There's history of heart disease in my family, so I asked my doctor about taking aspirin, and he recommended against it. I've got to make another appointment for a physical again soon, because it's been a while. Different doctor since we've moved, so he might have different things to say.

what Carole described is exactly my dad's situation.
when he runs them under hot water, the blood coming back to his hands causes them to hurt like hell.

not quite my situation yet though.... mine just hurt in the cold.

How do I get my VOmax tested, and is this related to circulation?.

VO2max is closely related to circulation. You get it tested in a cardiac stress test. But you can estimate VO2max in several ways yourself. Most cardio fitness tests (Harvard Step Test, Balke Test, shuttle run test, etc.) are tests that measure VO2max. See for example: (http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/vo2max.htm)

VO2max is usually expressed as either an absolute number - liters of oxygen per minute - which means how many liters of oxygen can you consume in a minute at your peak exercise intensity - or a relative number - which means divided by your body weight and expressed in milliliters per minute per kilogram. The 74 that wh0 mentioned is the relative number, in ml/min/kg. Oxygen is supplied to your body by your lungs, and pumped through your body by the heart, and it travels through the circulation. So a good VO2max means that your heart can pump, your lungs can breathe, and your blood can flow through your vessels and capillaries.

One reason that wh0's amazingly high VO2max doesn't relate to the cold fingers is that not much of his VO2max is due to calories he burns with his fingers. In this way, VO2max measures _circulation_ in the large more than it measures the detailed health of all the blood vessels. One big reason for bad circulation is chronically clogged arteries, and that will affect the VO2max.

Plus, if there is a vasoconstriction problem that is intermittent, if might not have showed up during the test.

As far as Raynaud's Phenomenon - they have just found a single common genetic factor for that and coronary artery disease. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15518590&query_hl=2)


Raynaud's is four times more common in women than in men. wh0's story involves all men who had it, so either it's really unlucky, or else something else is in the picture. Any female relatives report this, wh0?

interesting.... i'll have to ask my dad if my grandma or aunts have it.
thanks for the info!!

interesting.... i'll have to ask my dad if my grandma or aunts have it.
thanks for the info!!

Yah it looks like Raynaud's is a symptom and there can be different causes. That you have two direct male relatives that died of heart disease at 73 is not in and of itself that significant. The Raynaud symptom is much less common in men, and is thought to be genetic.

The trouble here is that you have nowhere to go if they tell you to try exercise (which is, not surprisingly, one of the recommendations for Raynaud's). You already really did that to a degree that few people ever do. You're really going to have to work with a doctor on this one.

what about Cayenne pepper? i don't know much about it. but if i recall, it's supposed to support circulation and is one of the best herbs out there. guess i should do a google search as well lol. now i'm curious :confused: