What do you do about post-cardio eating? I am considering doing LISS several mornings each week for the next 2 months. I did my first one today, but ran into a problem.

I don't have 45-60 mins to wait before leaving for work and my lunch isn't until 12:30 (3.5 hours after I get to work). I don't want to go without carbs for such a long period of time, especially considering the cardio itself was done fasted.

I normally have 2 eggs, 2 strips turkey bacon and half cup of oatmeal for breakfast. Today I ate the eggs/bacon about 15 mins after the cardio and brought the oatmeal to work. It was however a pain in the ass and would prefer not to do it regularly. If I have to, I will, I was just wondering what others do in this situation.

Carbs right after the cardio? Just don't have carbs till lunch?

I'm thinking of just having my normal breakfast ~25-30 mins after the cardio and hoping for the best.

I just bring my meal to work and eat it at my desk. It's just oatmeal, so it's pretty simple to pack it up dry and pour in water when I get there. People give me looks all the time, but oh well.

What do you do for work, karatekicker? It's much harder to fit meals in when it's not a desk job, or if it's a desk job where you're essentially chained to your desk until breaks (many years in customer service has taken its toll on me).

What about a sandwich made with Ezekiel bread instead of the eggs/bacon/oats combo on your LISS cardio days? It'll keep, even if you're not able to get to a fridge, and though it's not as great as oats, carb-wise, it's getting them in in a portable, easily-made fashion.

I finsih my LISS at 6:30'ish and I don't get to work til 8:00. I just microwave 6 egg whites and 2 strips of bacon right there.

You could maybe scramble the eggs at home and wrap them with the bacon into a low-carb tortilla? Or, you could bake the eggs with chopped, cooked bacon like a quiche (or in individual cupcake tins) and take them to work in a baggie.

I have the same exact problem. I wake up, do my cardio, and have just enough time to eat something really quick before I go in to work. I generally consume protein and fats right after my run as I don't want to throw in a bunch of carbohydrates to interrupt the fat-burning process (at least this is my understanding of how that works), but then I end up in the same situation at KT where I have to wait 3 or 4 hours until my next meal to consume some carbohydrates. I work in a meat market so snacking on the job is rather difficult for a variety of reasons.

I'm trying to figure out what the lesser of two evils would be: waiting so long to have carbohydrates or eating something like oatmeal right after cardio? Which would hamper my results more?

Tough choices. I am going to think about it a bit more, maybe read some articles on it if I can find any and then based on that and what others have said, I'll report back what I decide for any others facing a similar dilemma.

Very glad for this thread! Hope it'll have many follow-ups.
I feel like I've tried everything, regarding the topic.
And nothing seems to make a difference.

Typically, I walk 75 minutes at wakeup, fasted, then eat oatmeal, then a banana later at work,
or, I walk, eat a banana, then have the oatmeal at work, later.
For variations, post-walk, before commuting, I eat a hard-boiled egg,
or fix some kind of bacon or sausage (I work HARD to cook-off and drain the fat, on the fatty ones!),
or have a protein shake, sometimes whipped-up with a banana in the blender.

I fit in the banana because I understand it replenishes potassium.
Plus, bananas are easy for me to digest. Banana helps me to swallow my pills.

But still, no joy. No combination of timing vs. macro-type emphasis seems to make any difference.
KT it sounds like you have MUCH faster metabolism than I have.
You are blessed!

But bottom line: I am more and more convinced that main macro type, pwo, doesn't matter.

I do my fasted LISS and have a protein/fat meal (cheese omellete if I have time or a protein shake) about 15 minutes later. On the ride in to work or at work if traffic wasn't bad (roughly 45 minutes later) I down some low GI carbs (fruit or "healthy" bread). I then have lunch a couple hours after that.

There's no law that says you have to wait X number of hours in between meals before eating the next one -- it's just the rule of thumb when you are dividing your total daily calories up into X number of meals. My target each day is 6 meals about 300 calories each (1800 total). So I get about 200 calories in my protein/fat portion of breakfast. The other 100 calories I get from my carb portion an hour or so later. It's still 300 total for the 3 hour window. Sometimes I'll take my 300 calorie meal and only eat half of it, then the other half (you guessed it) halfway through the 3 hour window. I'm no doctor so this may be terribly wrong for me to do but logic tells me if I can divide my total daily calories into 6 meals... I should be able to divide those 6 meals up into even smaller evenly space meals. It's essentially what some others already do when they eat 8-10 meals a day instead of 6.

So eat you protein/fat meal. Wait a little bit and have your carbs. Then have your next meal as if you had your protein/fat/carbs all together in one meal. Works for me! :-)

Oatmeal Protein Cookie & Fruit

Here's the one Doordude turned me onto and I cannot get enough of it. Just make the cookie b4 you go to run. If you want some good fat in there good crazy with some Natty PB (I get my fats elsewhere)

Oatmeal Protein Cookies:

Ingredients:
1 Scoop of Whey Protein Powder
1/2 Cup of Regular Oatmeal
1 Teaspoon of Artificial Low Calorie Sweetener
50 ml of low fat milk or soy milk

Directions:
1. Put protein powder, oatmeal, and sweetener into a bowl mix it up so that all ingredients are distributed evenly.
2. Add milk and mix until it forms into a ball. It should be really sticky.
3. Store in refrigerator.

Yields One Bar:eat:

I do my fasted LISS and have a protein/fat meal (cheese omellete if I have time or a protein shake) about 15 minutes later. On the ride in to work or at work if traffic wasn't bad (roughly 45 minutes later) I down some low GI carbs (fruit or "healthy" bread). I then have lunch a couple hours after that.

...

So eat you protein/fat meal. Wait a little bit and have your carbs. Then have your next meal as if you had your protein/fat/carbs all together in one meal. Works for me! :-)

I agree and that is what I did last Friday, today and will continue to do through this LISS phase I just started over the next 6 weeks. I will have my eggs/bacon after I get ready for work, ~20 mins after cardio, and bring the oatmeal with me and it eat when I get to my desk, ~60 mins after cardio.

Bringing the whole meal to work with me is an option, but I don't really want to drag eggs/bacon with ketchup to work, that can prove to be a pain and messy (I refuse to eat eggs w/o at least some ketchup). I figure it may even be optimal because since the cardio was fasted, I like the idea of ingesting protein rather soon after to help take me out of a catabolic state, but then I can wait on the carbs and also don't have to mix carbs/fat unnecessarily. I'm not against that in general, but if I can avoid it, why not? Also, having the oatmeal 45 mins later will not leave me as hungry waiting for my next meal. All in all, it seems to be the way to go right now, so that's what I'll be doing. :nod:

Thanks for the input everyone.

I have been lurking for a while around here. Amazing group of people.

Well I sort of hit a plateau and started doing the fasted LISS approach for about a week now. I usually endup eating about 15-20 minutes after my cardio in the morning. I usually eat oatmeal, eggs, milk and piece of fruit.

Delaying the carbs is interesting, I can't say I fully understand why. I thought the fat and protien would slow the digestion of carbs(even low gi ones) so the insluin release won't affect the fat metabolism. Won't eating carbs by themselves start a larger insluin spike than when eaten with the protien and fats thus negating the point of waiting?

This is a bit confusing. But I need to break this plateau.

Delaying the carbs is interesting, I can't say I fully understand why. I thought the fat and protien would slow the digestion of carbs(even low gi ones) so the insluin release won't affect the fat metabolism. Won't eating carbs by themselves start a larger insluin spike than when eaten with the protien and fats thus negating the point of waiting?


Theoretically, yes. Nobody's saying to withhold them from the post-LISS meal and then eat them by themselves later...you want to include some protein in pretty much every meal. That is, if we're talking about the standard 6-meals spaced 3 hours apart scheme. But we're not...Karatetricker's just trying to work out the best compromise for his situation.

Well I sort of hit a plateau and started doing the fasted LISS approach for about a week now. I usually endup eating about 15-20 minutes after my cardio in the morning. I usually eat oatmeal, eggs, milk and piece of fruit.
I question your assessment of a "plateau". One week is not enough time to be re-evaluating your use of a particular type of cardio and whether or not it's causing a plateau. Such a thing, in my past experience, requires a minimum of 2~3 weeks, more like 4~6, before I'd adjust the type of cardio I'm doing based on a perceived plateau.

I've used LISS almost 100% exclusively for more than two years. While I have encountered plateaus along the way, they were diet related, not cardio. This type of cardio works every time when properly supported by your nutrition.

Delaying the carbs is interesting, I can't say I fully understand why. I thought the fat and protien would slow the digestion of carbs(even low gi ones) so the insluin release won't affect the fat metabolism.
When doing LISS and keeping carbohydrates separated (by about two hours, before and after cardio) what you're doing is encouraging your liver to liberate fat stores. The liver is responsible for mobilizing fat for energy in the absence of other nutritional power sources. When you ingest carbohydrates of any GI, your body will stop liberating fat stores and use the carbs you ingested. It requires more energy for the body to liberate fat than it does to simply digest what you feed yourself, therefore, fat oxidization will be impaired by carbohydrate ingestion. The human body is designed for survival, therefore, since fat and fat storage is a very important part of our survival mechanism, the body will not release fat for energy unless you create circumstances conducive to this.

I have my theories about LISS and its contribution to the total daily caloric deficit, but that's a discussion for another thread.

Won't eating carbs by themselves start a larger insluin spike than when eaten with the protien and fats thus negating the point of waiting?
So long as the carbs you're eating are good ones, lower in GI, no, it won't - even if eaten alone. Low GI carbs produce a lesser insulin response, slowly and steadily increasing insulin level rather than dumping it on the bloodstream all at once.

As for your plateau, don't look to the cardio, look to your nutrition. I have not seen a "plateau" from LISS in over a year now.

-R

I'm no doctor so this may be terribly wrong for me to do but logic tells me if I can divide my total daily calories into 6 meals... I should be able to divide those 6 meals up into even smaller evenly space meals. It's essentially what some others already do when they eat 8-10 meals a day instead of 6.

I'm not either, but I think you're quite right. I mean, the logical extension to saying "3 big meals a day makes your metabolism less efficient" is basically, "An infinitely continuous stream of intake makes your metabolism most efficient". So IMHO, theoretically you could do better than the 6 meal/3-hour spacing by going even smaller and more frequent. Furthermore, I think you almost have to go that route if you're bulking, and taking in an ungodly amount of calories. Otherwise you're going to be sitting down to 800kcal meals well into the evening, and that hardly seems optimal.

I take 4 meals with me that I eat while at work, while sitting at my desk... including my first meal post-LISS... by the time I've cleaned up, changed and gotten to my office and done a few minor routine things it's been an hour and then I eat... I pre-cook anything I can and store it in a small cooler that sits under my desk ALL day.. today I had five egg whites, 1/2 + 1/3 cup of oatmeal and 1 1/4 teaspoon of natural peanut butter (I put the PB in my oatmeal along with a little splenda and cinnamon :drool: ) yummy... heat the eggs in the microwave, I use quick oats and the hot water from the coffee machine and presto.. breakfast :D

it takes all of five minutes (at the most) to fix it and take it back to my desk... oh and the people at work are so used to seeing me eat at my desk that no one even comments anymore :nod:

I question your assessment of a "plateau". One week is not enough time to be re-evaluating your use of a particular type of cardio and whether or not it's causing a plateau. Such a thing, in my past experience, requires a minimum of 2~3 weeks, more like 4~6, before I'd adjust the type of cardio I'm doing based on a perceived plateau.

My plateau is nearing 6 weeks now. I am making mondifications to my training and food intake. I started off at 186 lbs and working out in August 2005. By the end of september I was at 173-175 lbs. In the begining of september I had my body fat % measured at my work gym with calipers by a trainer. I weighed 179 at 21.2% BF.
Now I am hovering around 173-175. There is a slight change in appearance but not as dramatic as before.

I started with a 3 day per week weight training in august and quickly moved to 4 day and then 5 days. I eat 5-6 meals a day and try to keep a 15/30/55 f/p/c ratio per meal. Drink about 3.5 ltires of water per day. I started off eating 1700-1800 calories. But after my BF measurements recalucated my BMR to be 2700 so I try to eat 2300-2400 calories a day. I just started Zig-Zaging calories this week.

I used to do cardio immediately after my weights. But started fasted cardio in the mornings but went the HIIT route for a couple of weeks. Now I am doing LISS after reading more about it on JSF.

I must admit I did slack off a little last month meaning not getting all the body parts in per week or sometimes not enough cardio in. Not keeping complete track of calories. I am due for another BF measurement so I bought a set of calipers and myo tape (haven't shown up yet). I don't do many cheat meals but I might have last month.



When doing LISS and keeping carbohydrates separated (by about two hours, before and after cardio) what you're doing is encouraging your liver to liberate fat stores. The liver is responsible for mobilizing fat for energy in the absence of other nutritional power sources. When you ingest carbohydrates of any GI, your body will stop liberating fat stores and use the carbs you ingested. It requires more energy for the body to liberate fat than it does to simply digest what you feed yourself, therefore, fat oxidization will be impaired by carbohydrate ingestion. The human body is designed for survival, therefore, since fat and fat storage is a very important part of our survival mechanism, the body will not release fat for energy unless you create circumstances conducive to this.

Appreciate the info. Makes sense now.


As for your plateau, don't look to the cardio, look to your nutrition. I have not seen a "plateau" from LISS in over a year now.

-R


I am reevaluating every aspect of the process now. I do have to tighten my belt a little more and keep to my schedule and deligently record everything.

I want to break this plateau and not give up.

My goal immediate goal at my last BF measurement was to be 18% in three months that is this month end. I am not sure if I have acheived that.

Sorry for such a long post. It helps to get the frustration out.

Arun

KT, keep me posted as to your results. I'm particularly interesed in the effects of LISS cardio on someone with relatively low BF other than myself. I know we're not unique here but i'd be interested in your findings.
Thanx,
Michael

KT, keep me posted as to your results. I'm particularly interesed in the effects of LISS cardio on someone with relatively low BF other than myself. I know we're not unique here but i'd be interested in your findings.
Thanx,
Michael
Fear not, there will be pics posted in about 6 weeks with results.

Unfortunately, I eat very freely and drink at least once a week, sometimes more, so that can hinder my progress. Also with Thanksgiving in the middle, I'll be eating a hell of a lot next week. Either way, I'm sure we'll see some differences! :tu:

Late to the party..

Hey Karate, do this...

Make your eggs and bacon and oats.... blender it... thermos... egg-bac shake. :D :neener:

Seriously though- I know what you face. I now go early enough to drive back home and eat breakfast with my wife. Extra miles and means going to bed early but it's worth it.

We're thinking about moving further out and I may face teh same issues.

Interesting thread.

Hey KK, do you eat carbs with your post LISS cardio?

Hey KK, do you eat carbs with your post LISS cardio?

I've only gotten to actually do LISS 4 times in the past week so far due to a couple personal things, however, I have done and will continue to pick back up doing (times are estimates):

7:15am - Wake up and do cardio 65-75% MHR for 40-45 mins
8:15am - 2 eggs, 1 slice f/f cheese, 2 strips turkey bacon (all fat/protein)
9am - 1/2 cup of oatmeal