First of all, a huge thanks to everyone who took the time to respond to my first thread (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?p=227462&posted=1)

It became quite clear, and I think I knew deep down that my diet needs major revamping. Especially the pre + post workout meals.

So I spent maybe four solid hours reading the topic of the week posts on bb.com, stickies, old board posts, everything, and I just cannot put a decent plan together based on my current calorie requirements. Plus none of the articles really deal with working this into a cutting routine, or if you exercise early in the morning. On top of that, there are a million different opinions that all conflict, I dont know which to go with!

Quick recap, 5'10, age 24, weight 89.9kg (198lb) I am estimating my BF% is quite high. (in 12 months, cut from 117kg/260lb, 46" waist to 35"). Target is 75 kilos in next 6-8 months (15kilo loss)

All my calculations tell me that to cut 2lbs a week, I need around 2300 cals a day. And it seems with everything that I am reading about pre + post, I would use almost half of this with these meals before 9am! What do I do with the rest of the day?

Another problem is that I can only get to the gym at 6AM, and I wake up at 5:20. The earliest I can eat is 5:30, and most of the meal suggestions I am hearing are really 'dinner' type things.

I am so desperate for something simple! As I understand it, I need Low GI Carbs + Protein at least an hour before working out. A shake with protein, dextrose + malto, immediately after working out, then an hour later, Protein + Low GI carbs again. Somewhere in there fit in BCAA's, Multis, Fish Oil, etc, argh!

My second concern is that I will not be getting any fasted cardio in. Should I drop my 5 day split (45 minutes weights, followed by 30 minutes cardio) and do a 3 day split (3 day 1.5 hours lifting, 3 days 1 hour cardio), and have separate pre and post meals for cardio days and separate ones for the lifting days? Therefore I can get 3 days of semi fasted cardio in?

Im really sorry to be such a needy bastard, but this whole thing is really doing my head in, and if anyone can just break this down for me in a simple manner, because I seem to have the comprehension level of a 5 year old, I will shower you with rubies and other riches... or something like that.

Thanks!

Best,
Jeremy

First of all, a huge thanks to everyone who took the time to respond to my first thread (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?p=227462&posted=1)

It became quite clear, and I think I knew deep down that my diet needs major revamping. Especially the pre + post workout meals.

So I spent maybe four solid hours reading the topic of the week posts on bb.com, stickies, old board posts, everything, and I just cannot put a decent plan together based on my current calorie requirements. Plus none of the articles really deal with working this into a cutting routine, or if you exercise early in the morning. On top of that, there are a million different opinions that all conflict, I dont know which to go with!

Quick recap, 5'10, age 24, weight 89.9kg (198lb) I am estimating my BF% is quite high. (in 12 months, cut from 117kg/260lb, 46" waist to 35"). Target is 75 kilos in next 6-8 months (15kilo loss)

All my calculations tell me that to cut 2lbs a week, I need around 2300 cals a day. And it seems with everything that I am reading about pre + post, I would use almost half of this with these meals before 9am! What do I do with the rest of the day?

Another problem is that I can only get to the gym at 6AM, and I wake up at 5:20. The earliest I can eat is 5:30, and most of the meal suggestions I am hearing are really 'dinner' type things.

I am so desperate for something simple! As I understand it, I need Low GI Carbs + Protein at least an hour before working out. A shake with protein, dextrose + malto, immediately after working out, then an hour later, Protein + Low GI carbs again. Somewhere in there fit in BCAA's, Multis, Fish Oil, etc, argh!

My second concern is that I will not be getting any fasted cardio in. Should I drop my 5 day split (45 minutes weights, followed by 30 minutes cardio) and do a 3 day split (3 day 1.5 hours lifting, 3 days 1 hour cardio), and have separate pre and post meals for cardio days and separate ones for the lifting days? Therefore I can get 3 days of semi fasted cardio in?

Im really sorry to be such a needy bastard, but this whole thing is really doing my head in, and if anyone can just break this down for me in a simple manner, because I seem to have the comprehension level of a 5 year old, I will shower you with rubies and other riches... or something like that.



Thanks!

Best,
Jeremy


breakfast: 1/2 cup oatmeal/1 scoop whey. 260cal
PWO: 1 scoop whey/malto/dex 1:1 ratio P to C - 220 cal
PWO meal: 1/2 cup oatmeal/1 scoop whey. 260 cal.
Total 740 cal

2300 - 740 = 1560. That's 1560 cal. left for the day. Very doable.
This is off the top of my head. I'm sure there are a lot of better options out there.

AH HA!!! I knew there was another person out there with the same issue as I have. The curse of the early morning workout (actually, the schedule that requires that the workout be first thing is the real issue).

I've just started a new Pre/Post/Post-Post regime. Before, I had nothing pre; 2 scoops whey + 1 scoop Dextrose post. And a whole wheat english muffin with natural pb post post. After learning that I might be doing myself more harm than good, I am experimenting with some advice that KarateTricker started me on. I'm only a few days in, but we shall see.

new regime is as follows:
1. Pre: 1 scoop whey shake+ banana.
(WORKOUT: Lifting and HIIT)
2. Post: 1 scoop whey + 1 Scoop malto dex shake
3. Post Post: (60-90 min after Post shake): 1 package of Kashi Oatmeal + another banana

Total Cals for 1-3: 637.
55 grams of protein, 102 of carbs, 5 grams of fat.

Having the banana and whey didn't bother me at all the first 3 days. I had significantly more energy, and all of my lifts went up a little. Early results encouraging. I think that the carbs and whey pre helped me more than I thought.

Once I run my present supply of maltodex dry, I think I'll start grinding some oats to make the carbs more of the "complex" variety.

Good luck - I'll be watching this thread to see if any other ideas appeal to me.

Alright, first things first. Relax. If you plan to be in this for the long haul, you're going to drive yourself nuts if you let conflicting information get to you because there is not one topic that does not have two (to a hundred) sides. You need to just pick something and go with it for a while. Chances are it will work, but if it doesn't work as well as you'd like, you try something else. Everyone is different and you need to experiment for yourself to see what works best.

That said, let's take a look at each part of your post:

All my calculations tell me that to cut 2lbs a week, I need around 2300 cals a day. And it seems with everything that I am reading about pre + post, I would use almost half of this with these meals before 9am! What do I do with the rest of the day?

That is one of the downsides to lifting so early when cutting. It is true that to optimize workout nutrition, a good bulk of your calories will come within 1-2 hours before and 1-2 hours after your workout. However, it's still possible to leave plenty of calories for the rest of the day.

Another problem is that I can only get to the gym at 6AM, and I wake up at 5:20. The earliest I can eat is 5:30, and most of the meal suggestions I am hearing are really 'dinner' type things.

Not at all. Here are plenty of breakfasty items:

Protein:
Whey
Egg whites
Egg beaters
Fat free cheese
Yogurt

Carbs:
Oatmeal
Fruit
Skim Milk
Healthy cereal
Yogurt

The longest any of those take to prepare is 5 minutes with the eggs. If you combine 1 or 2 of the protein items with 1 or 2 of the carb items, you will be good to go.

I am so desperate for something simple! As I understand it, I need Low GI Carbs + Protein at least an hour before working out. A shake with protein, dextrose + malto, immediately after working out, then an hour later, Protein + Low GI carbs again. Somewhere in there fit in BCAA's, Multis, Fish Oil, etc, argh!

Nah. You're cutting, you're young and you're not looking to be a bodybuilder. All that matters is that you eat something before and something after. Don't worry about the specifics right now.

This would be a great way to get started.

5:30 AM - Whey in skim milk and a banana or fat free yogurt
PWO - Whey/Dex/Malto (if you have it, otherwise any simpler carb source and protein. I use chocolate milk)
PPWO - Egg whites/beaters & oatmeal

Or you can have egg whites & oatmeal pre and ppwo. Or something completely different. List what kind of food ideas interest you.

My second concern is that I will not be getting any fasted cardio in. Should I drop my 5 day split (45 minutes weights, followed by 30 minutes cardio) and do a 3 day split (3 day 1.5 hours lifting, 3 days 1 hour cardio), and have separate pre and post meals for cardio days and separate ones for the lifting days? Therefore I can get 3 days of semi fasted cardio in?

I don't really like your 3 day suggestion. Lifting for 1.5 hours is way too much. Stick with what you're doing for now. If you want, go to a 4-day split (my favorite kind on a cut) and do cardio after all but leg day and use the extra day off to do fasted low intensity cardio.

...I will shower you with rubies and other riches... or something like that.

I accept paypal and money orders. :nod:


Hope that was helpful. :D

new regime is as follows:
1. Pre: 1 scoop whey shake+ banana.
(WORKOUT: Lifting and HIIT)
2. Post: 1 scoop whey + 1 Scoop malto dex shake
3. Post Post: (60-90 min after Post shake): 1 package of Kashi Oatmeal + another banana

Total Cals for 1-3: 637.
55 grams of protein, 102 of carbs, 5 grams of fat.

A lot better, but I would try very hard to add a good source of protein to that PPWO meal, it's lacking.

A lot better, but I would try very hard to add a good source of protein to that PPWO meal, it's lacking.

The Kahsi Oatmeal (which isn't really "oatmeal" it's a hot cereal that has a blend of grains in it) has 9 grams of soy protein. (Typically eaten at around 8:45)

My next snack/meal is about .75 cups of whole cottage cheese (20 grams protein). Eaten at approx 10:30 or so.

I feel like I've been well served with your advice, and welcome any specific thoughts to improve the PPWO.

Well, this is just my personal preference, but I like to consume at least 25-35g of protein in my PPWO meal. It's more important here than PWO.

Also, soy protein isn't the greatest source in the first place. If you can add a lean meat source, that'd be great!

Well, this is just my personal preference, but I like to consume at least 25-35g of protein in my PPWO meal. It's more important here than PWO.

Also, soy protein isn't the greatest source in the first place. If you can add a lean meat source, that'd be great!

OK- I'll try to figure that out. Jerky seems to be one way to do this. Maybe I'll grab some turkey and throw it in the company fridge. . .

Thanks again for all of your help. It makes a huge difference.