Does anyone else here avoid training the obliques directly in an effort to stay (or at least appear) slimmer at the waist? I do focused work on the upper/lower abs, but I'm wondering if avoiding the obliques for vanity reasons is as stupid as it sounds when I write it....

comments?

I've heard this before and it sounds like nonsense to me. I'll retract that comment if anybody can find a single picture of a person with "overdeveloped" obliques. I've seen well built obliques, but never a person with big ones.

This is kind of in the same vein as those who say not to do weighted abs, beacuse they'll stick out too far.

Does anyone else here avoid training the obliques directly in an effort to stay (or at least appear) slimmer at the waist? I do focused work on the upper/lower abs, but I'm wondering if avoiding the obliques for vanity reasons is as stupid as it sounds when I write it....

comments?

Right here dude.:whistle:

I'll retract that comment if anybody can find a single picture of a person with "overdeveloped" obliques.
Done. :cool:

Done. :cool:Is that real? Why would the guy have good symmetry and have such ridiculous looking obliques? Those are so nasty!

That's from this year's Olympia.

...and he obviously didnt win :nod:

Is that real? Why would the guy have good symmetry and have such ridiculous looking obliques? Those are so nasty!

Well, he looks pretty happy about them . . . .

Where's RTestes? I believe he discussed obliques a while back- didn't the classic look used to be large obliques? I'm beginning to work them as I'm really skinny but have wider hips- without obliques I'm gonna look like stalag boy.

I think it depends on the angle of the pose and a little genetics.

Frank Zane specifically left obliques out of all ab routines to maintain a small waist.
http://www.frankzane.com/images/77frontrelaxed.jpg
However quality obliques can look pretty good from the side:

http://www.skippypodar.net/WebGallery/Skip-NGA-June2004/skip-061704-st.jpg

Now they're not overly developed like Gunter but they do tie the abs together nicely in a side pose.

I don't do side bends or twist or any of that but I do Side Bridges and cable crunches.

Well-developed obliques were popular at the turn of the century (i.e. late 19th and early 20th century). As the v-taper became the choice physique, they were down-played until it was unaesthetic to have well developed ones. Now days, like Gordo mentioned, they are important for the "tie-in" factor, but over-developed ones are still looked down upon.

I wouldn't advise putting a particular emphasis on building their mass, but it's still important to strengthen them.

Obliques get worked a lot with squats and other compound exercises. I think it's only necessary to add minimal direct work.

I don't train them. I've read too many people I have a lot of respect for advise against it.

I think it depends on the angle of the pose and a little genetics.

Frank Zane specifically left obliques out of all ab routines to maintain a small waist.
http://www.frankzane.com/images/77frontrelaxed.jpg
However quality obliques can look pretty good from the side:



Frank Zane is UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!! IMO he's got the most aesthetically pleasing physique ever.:bow: :bow: :bow: Man, talk about symmetry.

Ditto, Zane was the man. For my tastes no one else compares.

OK I'm a little confused. I thought the oblique's were the muscles up around your rib cab on the sides. It seems you guys are talking about the "love handle" area?

OK I'm a little confused. I thought the oblique's were the muscles up around your rib cab on the sides. It seems you guys are talking about the "love handle" area?

http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/Obliques.html

Maybe you are thinking of the serratus anterior?

Serratus vs. Obliques (see attached image).

in retrosrospect,
having nice obliques looks great, just dont work them too hard if you're under the juice. :spank:

Does anyone else here avoid training the obliques directly in an effort to stay (or at least appear) slimmer at the waist? I do focused work on the upper/lower abs, but I'm wondering if avoiding the obliques for vanity reasons is as stupid as it sounds when I write it....

comments?


You said it, I didn't:lol:

For what it's worth, at my leanest; 165 31" waist, I was using 120lbs in the side bend and no they were not overly developed...and definatley nothing like Frank's or Gunther's;)

I also do heavy crunches as well. This supplements my Squats and Deads.:gl:

Obliques get worked a lot with squats and other compound exercises. I think it's only necessary to add minimal direct work.

Thanks everybody. Between squats, deadlifts, and a weekly yoga class, it sounds like I should be covered. I just didn't want to get rid of the last of my love handles only to regret not working my obliques really hard.

Frank Zane is UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!! IMO he's got the most aesthetically pleasing physique ever.:bow: :bow: :bow: Man, talk about symmetry.

Yeah, ditto, in my estimation, Zane is the gold standard.

I grew up reading the stories of Steve Reeves and company who did no oblique work. I always followed that advice. One day when I was about 17, I did an unweighted side bend set, put my back out for a couple of weeks. Never did that again.

I never wanted a blocky square waist. We probably work them enough without direct work by compound moves and their acting as stabilizers.

I'll let you know if I like them when I find them..:madpimp:

Frank Zane is UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!! IMO he's got the most aesthetically pleasing physique ever.:bow: :bow: :bow: Man, talk about symmetry.

I agree! This is about as good as it gets, IMHO

One day when I was about 17, I did an unweighted side bend set, put my back out for a couple of weeks. Never did that again.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :claplow: :claplow: :claplow: :claplow:

I work mine every other ab workout, dunno but i think it pulls the ab section in tight, sure feels that way and appears to be making my waist tight and small, I do my ab workouts on a total gym so i am not using tons of resistance:tu:

Just wanted to chime in that Frank Zane is my favorite all time bodybuilder.

Just wanted to chime in that Frank Zane is my favorite all time bodybuilder.


I don't want to turn this into a Frank Zane thread, but he's my idol. I always look at his pictures for inspiration.


BEST PHYSIQUE OF ALL TIME?

I just wanted to add I like how he doesn't have those over developed "sausage legs" I think they look disgusting.

From what I can see, oversized obliques are quite rare, and for them to look extreme requires lots of juice and heavy heavy weights.

If you do sports/martial arts besides body building, then your obliques are very useful. I'll continue working mine.

since everyone is being complimentary about well-developed physique, i'd like to point out Gordo's shoulders in the pic he posted. nice :tu:

since everyone is being complimentary about well-developed physique, i'd like to point out Gordo's shoulders in the pic he posted. nice :tu:


Where are they posted?

Where are they posted?
http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showpost.php?p=228444&postcount=10

http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showpost.php?p=


228444&postcount=10


Oh. Zane's shoulders. No doubt.:tu:
Tell you what, Skip's ain't too shabby either!!!

OK, getting back to obliques. I never train mine directly however they appear to be pretty well developed when i'm lean.

since everyone is being complimentary about well-developed physique, i'd like to point out Gordo's shoulders in the pic he posted. nice :tu:
That's abdominator (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/member.php?u=7135), not Gordo.

Shame on you Gordo for not referencing your pictures.

I love Zane's legs and chest. His lats are a little big for what I generally admire. Great abs though!

That's abdominator (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/member.php?u=7135), not Gordo.


when i saw the bushes in the background and remembered them from my youth in the south, i thought it was odd that they would also grow in manitoba :D

I'm in better shape now than I was at the peak of my time in taekwondo. I have less body fat now, but I looked thinner then, and much of that was how strong my obliques were. I didn't really train them on purpose, but through doing exercises to improve kicks and so forth (leglifts to the side, etc.) I ended up getting very tight and toned obliques. They really do help to cinch up your midsection and the added strength is really nice to have. I felt like I was straining myself far less often doing normal household/work lifting.

I've never known anyone to get huge legs doing squats with no weight, or giant pecs from doing nothing but pushups, so I fail to see how you'd get "overdeveloped" obliques unless you were blasting them with really heavy weights like any other body part.

My 2 cents.:tu:

I've never known anyone to get huge legs doing squats with no weight, or giant pecs from doing nothing but pushups, so I fail to see how you'd get "overdeveloped" obliques unless you were blasting them with really heavy weights like any other body part.

Very true. And I agree that some work of the obliques is necessary -- they are a functional body part important to many movements. However, I think they do get enough work from heavy compound lifts and yoga to be "functionally strong". I want to train the abs hard so that when I do shed that last few pounds I have something to show off. With the obliques, it's a different story -- I realize they won't be huge, but as far as I'm concerned, there's no reason to hit them hard to increase their size.

Thanks everybody. Between squats, deadlifts, and a weekly yoga class, it sounds like I should be covered. I just didn't want to get rid of the last of my love handles only to regret not working my obliques really hard.

Sure. One other thing-obliques are like any muscle. They're not gonna grow particularly much if you're eating at a caloric defiict for fat loss. If at all, the time they would grow past the point you might find aesthetically pleasing would be when eating to put on muscle while also hitting them hard.

I feel that no muscle should be completely avoided. It was put there for a reason and should be trained.

That's abdominator (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/member.php?u=7135), not Gordo.

Shame on you Gordo for not referencing your pictures.

I love Zane's legs and chest. His lats are a little big for what I generally admire. Great abs though!

:lol: I never said that was me, nor would I pretend that was....I figured everyone knew who Skip was and I needed a good developed point of reference. On my current bulk, mine are NOT a good point of reference. Mine are there but My torso thickened somewhat, though my waist is holding.

Too funny. No I wans't intentionally trying to pass myself off as Skip in the least. Sorry for the confusion. Now that I reread the post I see how it was confusing....that was just my poor sentence structure and nothing more sinister than that ;)

One of these days I'll throw the camera on the tripod and get in a back picture at least. :D

For the record (since it has spiralled into a Zane love fest)....

Yes Zane is my all-time favorite ideal physique....bar none and that includes Arnold.



when i saw the bushes in the background and remembered them from my youth in the south, i thought it was odd that they would also grow in manitoba

After the dumping of snow we just got (27 cm overnight....10 in for you guys down south), I highly doubt they'd survive. ;)

I feel that no muscle should be completely avoided. It was put there for a reason and should be trained.

You are correct.

You are correct.
:tu: