It's high time for athletes to forget the modern mantras and remember the dietary wisdom of the past, achieving a lean, muscular physique through traditional foods such as liver, egg yolks, full-fat milk, butter from grass-fed cows and cod liver oil.

From the article:
Vitamin A and Bodybuilding (http://www.westonaprice.org/men/vitaminabodybuilding.html#masterjohn)

This is so true. The preponderance of skim milk and egg whites around here is slowing down muscle growth. Believe it!

The preponderance of skim milk and egg whites around here is slowing down muscle growth.
That's great if you have unlimited calories for the day. Unfortunately, whole milk and egg yolk are WAY heavy on the calories.

That's great if you have unlimited calories for the day. Unfortunately, whole milk and egg yolk are WAY heavy on the calories.

How about supplementing with pro-vitamin A which your body can turn into vitamin A? You won't need to apply as much tanner, as well, because your body will turn orange! :cool:

About the Author
Chris Masterjohn is a student of biochemistry

Well as long as the source is reputable.

This article is a great example of someone trying to drum up a very profound-sounding conclusion from basic, rather obvious data. I could summarize the entire article with this: "Bodybuilders should ensure that they are getting enough Vitamin A, as many studies have suggested that it can have a large impact on muscular development and general health."

See? That's quite a bit different from saying "Forget all this hype people are saying nowadays and just eat egg yolks and liver!"

Being deficient in ANY vitamin is bad. This is not news. This article isn't any more profound than someone saying "make sure to get enough Vitamin C," or any other vitamin. Hell, many many people are deficient in Vitamin D because they avoid the sun, and there's very few dietary sources of it.

Good health advice is always great to have, but there's no need to run around making blanket statements that imply that we're all suffering from some great malady or that some trivial dietary or lifestyle change will turn us all into muscle-building machines.

If you do the math on your diet....you can occassionally include just about anything in your diet even cake occassionally. Like everything it's a scale of balance. If you include one thing you probably have to remove something else. Everyone has different methods of achieving their goals and it's mostly due to genetics and body composition. Some people can get away to have a rich whole food diet....some do it on a liquid diet....some do it on macro partioning (the pro/fat pro/carb thing) some do it on a balanced diet and a few eat crap and stil look good. To say one thing is superior and create a blanket statement like that is presumptuous and really doesn't consider people's genetic differences in how they react to a particular diet.

You can make generalizations about how the body works when looking at various groups of test subjects but when people say things like no carbs after 6 or and the like, well there is no switch that magically says 6 o'clock any more carbs and I'm storing fat. It just doesn't work that way. The body can be conditioned to certain habits though (that I believe).

Sleep is a good example.....some people function well on 6 hours, some on 8, and some on 10 and others inbetween everything else....though the "rule of thumb" is 8 hours for most. Doesn't make it an absolute.

:claphigh:

It's oversimplifying a little. Bodybuilders and most people should consume some saturated fats and foods rich in vitamin A. And a lowfat diet is not optimal. The greater percentage of fat should come from unsaturated sources, but saturated fat is beneficial and important. This does not mean that skim milk and egg whites are bad foods, however. On the contrary, egg whites are an excellent source protein and cheap.

I'm not saying anyone is suffering from a great malady. I just believe the egg is a great complete food with its fats and proteins in perfect order for nourishing the body. I think its a waste to discard the most nutritious part. I'd rather eat 1 whole egg than 5 whites. That's about the caloric equivalent. Now I know most of you guys probably would eat the whole egg PLUS the 5 whites and that's a different story. (for me I'd rather just eat the 6 eggs) I just think protein by itself without the fat won't work so good.

My main point with my nutritional posts is consider the source of your nutrients. (like Glaive said "Well as long as the source is reputable.") To me a 40/40/20 split or any other split becomes irrelevant when the source of each component is not of the highest quality, and received by the body in a proper context. I still believe my original post was true though. Egg whites and skim milk are much less valuable as foods than whole eggs and whole milk. They each don't live up to expectations- especially skim milk. I think someone is better off eating less of a complete whole food than more of an adulterated version. And I still think muscles would grow on some of the great specimens in here with more whole eggs and whole milk. (Caloric considerations were not included in my original post!)

As to what Gordo said about the various diets all being able to produce great visual results based on genetics and other factors, that's certainly true! But if that guy who eats crap and looks good would change his diet for the better imagine how good he would look. It's all relative. Also consider the HEALTH of the people on the various diets, their appearance notwithstanding. The guys with poor or unnatural diets and a good appearance may be headed for internal problems like inflammation, scarred arteries, or hypertension.

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here. Are eggs a good food? Yes. Are skim milk and egg whites bad foods? No. Are eggs a good thing to have in one's diet? Yes. Is someone going to be unhealthy because they don't eat eggs? No.

I'm not sure what your thought process is.

Egg whites and skim milk aren't "whole foods?"

By that logic, if you're going to eat beef you better eat every single hunk of fat on that cow, right? I mean, that's the natural state of the food, right?

It has nothing to do with gimping the food, it has to do with making it more customizable. I eat whole eggs. I also eat egg whites. They serve different purposes. You say you think the whole egg would be better, but that is completely dependent on context. Fats affect protein absorption. Eating whole eggs right after your workout is less beneficial than just egg whites, or some other high quality fast-absorbing protein, such as whey. That's not saying eggs suck, just that they have a time and a place.

Whey is a great protein and an awesome addition to your diet, provided that you use it correctly. Whey right before bedtime, for instance, doesn't really give much of any benefit. During the night you want a slow, sustained protein release. Here is where whole eggs and casein are more useful.

Similarly, skim milk allows you to have milk at times of the day where you need to restrict your fat intake. I use fat free milk, but at other times (like for my bedtime shake) I'm replacing those missing fats with egg yolks, flax oil, and so forth. There's nothing to show that there's some sort of nutritional deficit in egg yolks, skim milk, or any other similar foods.

Keep in mind you eat virtually nothing in its "natural" state. You're certainly not drinking raw milk. You drink homogenized and pasteurized milk, most likely containing a large variety of antibiotics, bovine growth hormones, and so forth (unless you're drinking certified organic milk, which most people don't, but even that is still homogenized and pasteurized). Your eggs come from chickens that live their lives in cages where they can't move, their feet grow curled around the cage wire, they excrete onto each other, disease is rampant, they are denied access to both mating and basic instinctive foraging, and pumped full of more hormones and antibiotics. Most likely they eat feed made from other dead chickens, some of which carry disease.

Personally, that is all far more of a concern than whether or not it's best to eat whole versus separated eggs. I think you'd be better served applying your dietary "tweaking" efforts to other places in your life.

Egg whites and skim milk aren't "whole foods?"

Keep in mind you eat virtually nothing in its "natural" state. You're certainly not drinking raw milk. You drink homogenized and pasteurized milk, most likely containing a large variety of antibiotics, bovine growth hormones, and so forth (unless you're drinking certified organic milk, which most people don't, but even that is still homogenized and pasteurized). Your eggs come from chickens that live their lives in cages where they can't move, their feet grow curled around the cage wire, they excrete onto each other, disease is rampant, they are denied access to both mating and basic instinctive foraging, and pumped full of more hormones and antibiotics. Most likely they eat feed made from other dead chickens, some of which carry disease.



Actually no, I only eat eggs and chickens raised cage free and free ranged organic. When I live in the states I always make sure to find a local farmer for this, preferably an Amish or Mennonite family. Their beliefs include raising healthy and whole foods free of drugs and all those insidious industrial farming practices you mention. If you can find and join a CSA (community supported agriculture) I highly recommend that. Thats where a biodynamic farmer sells shares of his farm and each week you get your percentage of his fresh local produce. It rocks!

Find a CSA (http://wsare.usu.edu/pub/index.cfm?sub=csa)

An example of a good CSA (http://www.elysianfarm.com/)

As for skim milk no I don't believe it is a whole food. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

"Powdered skim milk is added to the most popular varities of commercial milk- one-percent and two-percent milk. Commercial dehydration methods oxidize cholesterol in powdered milk, rendering it harmful to the arteries. High tempreature drying also creates large quantities of cross-linked proteins and nitrate compounds which are potent carcinogens, as well as free glutamic acid, which is toxic to the nervous system."

from Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon

All the milk at the grocery store is bad for you because of the freakish cows it is secreted by. You're right about that. At least the FF milk supposedly doesn't have the powdered milk added. But I had a great source of raw milk the last time I lived in the states, I got 2 gallons per week from healthy cows. It was great and healthy too. It can be done you just have to know where to look...

http://www.realmilk.com/

And again you're talking about conventional milk, though. I drink organic milk specifically for all those reasons.

And congratulations on being one of the few people who recognizes the benefits of natural (and more sustainable) chicken and dairy farms. Likewise, it's nice to see someone supporting local agriculture. If everyone did this not only would it save a ton of energy shipping crap all over the place, but it helps ensure the quality of the food you eat, specifically in regards to produce.

And again you're talking about conventional milk, though. I drink organic milk specifically for all those reasons.

And congratulations on being one of the few people who recognizes the benefits of natural (and more sustainable) chicken and dairy farms. Likewise, it's nice to see someone supporting local agriculture. If everyone did this not only would it save a ton of energy shipping crap all over the place, but it helps ensure the quality of the food you eat, specifically in regards to produce.

Most organic milks are Ultra Pasturized or Ultra high temperature processed. This is a bad thing. It pretty much ruins the milk.

I hope you can find some raw milk. It'll be a good thing for you.

Twenty-eight year old Shannon Hayes grew up on a farm in Warnerville, one hour west of Albany, New York. Her parents, Adele and Jim Hayes, raise pastured beef, chickens, turkeys, geese, lamb and pigs. Shannon is following in her parents' footsteps in the progressive agriculture field, has a contract for a cookbook on meat dishes, writes a monthly column for a publication called Graze, is a poised speaker and sits on the board of New York's Regional Farm and Food Project. Recently she appeared on a radio program where she poetically described the process of buying raw milk straight from the farm:

"One cannot purchase raw milk from an anonymous figure standing at the grocery store register. It cannot come from faceless, all-powerful corporations. It cannot come with a guarantee of the watchful eye of government inspectors. Raw milk is passed to you through the farmers' hands. The assurance of a safe glass of raw milk means looking the farm family in the eyes, knowing how they grow the food, knowing firsthand of their integrity. Purchasing raw milk is not merely a commercial transaction. It is an act of faith and trust between the farmer and the buyer. One is entrusted to grow the food with care; the other is entrusted with protecting the farmers' right to grow it. To accept this drink, without the layers of so-called protective treatments and bureaucratic inspections, is to accept more than simply nourishment, flavor and ideals. It is accepting a glass of fellowship."

http://www.realmilk.com/update_spring03.html