Hey guys. I just read in another thread that it is nearly impossible to lose/cut and gain/bulk at the same time. My main goal is to lose body fat. I do fasted cardio 4-5X a week, weight train 3-4X a week. I basically work one or two muscle groups per day, 2-3 sets, increasing weight and decreasing reps on each set. My bodyfat loss is going very slow. I think my diet is good. I'm taking in around 1800-2000 cals a day, eating pretty clean. Can someone recommend an ideal weight training routine that may help someone who is trying to lose bodyfat and no so much interested in bulking up muscle?

what kind of cardio are you doing?

i'd recommend 3-4 days of weight training, 2-3 days of hiit cardio, and 1-2 days of steady state cardio per week

That's just my opinion for optimum fat-loss training... but you should be able to lose fat by doing what you're doing now and here's how:

DIET!

if you're eating clean and doing all that training, but the body fat is sticking like glue, bring your calories down a bit - or even better - bring your carbs down a bit...

you may also be interested in trying a thermogenic (i recommend thermal rage, one serving when you wake and another 8hrs before you hit the sheets) stacked with sesathin (1 serving breakfast, lunch, and dinner)

also try adding spinach (or other veggies, i just love spinach!) to as many meals as possible, 10 cups a day is a great goal to shoot for, i'm getting 6-8 usually.



edit: one more thing, be sure to seperate your cardio sessions from your weight training sessions by ~8hrs minimum

edit2: it's possible to lose fat with just weight training, or even with no training at all. the key is adjusting your intake safely below your caloric needs... although a routine like the one you're doing now - or even the one i mentioned above - will be more beneficial and efficient for someone looking for fast effective fat-loss.

Hey guys. I just read in another thread that it is nearly impossible to lose/cut and gain/bulk at the same time. My main goal is to lose body fat. I do fasted cardio 4-5X a week, weight train 3-4X a week. I basically work one or two muscle groups per day, 2-3 sets, increasing weight and decreasing reps on each set. My bodyfat loss is going very slow. I think my diet is good. I'm taking in around 1800-2000 cals a day, eating pretty clean. Can someone recommend an ideal weight training routine that may help someone who is trying to lose bodyfat and no so much interested in bulking up muscle?
You never mentioned what you weigh or when you started. If you started two weeks ago, weigh 260lbs and dropped your cals that low immediately and then added cardio your body may not change right away, you may have shocked the shit out of it and it won't want to let go of that fat. Give us a little more information please :).

Need more info!

Height, weight, bodyfat, macros (protein/carbs/fat) would help.

I think what is meant by that statement is that it's nigh impossible to GROW your muscles while losing bodyfat. However, if you're running at a calorific deficit (i.e. eating less than you burn) then your body needs to use body fat or muscle to get its energy. If you're doing weight training, you're telling your body that you need the muscle and so it's more likely to burn the fat.

al

Ok, here's some more info. I'm about 5'8, not sure of bodyfat %. I usually take in 1800-2100 cals a day, Im shooting for the 40p/40c/20f macros and I come pretty close each day. I started trying to get in better shape earlier this year. I started eating right and weight training and doing cardio. I saw some results right away, I got some muscle tone and dropped about 25 pounds then the loss kind of stopped. Then I fell off the routine a little, but have recently gotten back into it. I do steady state fasted cardio for 45-60 mins 1st thing in the morning at least 4 times a week. I weight train in the afternoons usually 3-4X a week. I've been doing this for almost 2 months now and with the exception of a pound or two, the weight is not coming off.

I get pretty confused about calories. Some say my 1800-2100 is too little and I need to bump up the calories. And some say that I need to lower them. Help?!!?

:d_eek: Ok, here's some more info. I'm about 5'8, not sure of bodyfat %. I usually take in 1800-2100 cals a day, Im shooting for the 40p/40c/20f macros and I come pretty close each day. I started trying to get in better shape earlier this year. I started eating right and weight training and doing cardio. I saw some results right away, I got some muscle tone and dropped about 25 pounds then the loss kind of stopped.
Oh brother, does this sound like what happened to me. Not to hijack your thread so let me ask...

I do steady state fasted cardio for 45-60 mins 1st thing in the morning at least 4 times a week.
Is this LISS also called LOW INTENSITY steady state?

I weight train in the afternoons usually 3-4X a week. I've been doing this for almost 2 months now and with the exception of a pound or two, the weight is not coming off.
Not to sound like a smart ass but "what do you expect?" The same thing is happening to Obidiah, you, and me. I think people are tired of looking for reasons. You gotta believe. Try not to lose it and see what happens in another 2 months. Something has gotta give.

I get pretty confused about calories. Some say my 1800-2100 is too little and I need to bump up the calories. And some say that I need to lower them. Help?!!?
Confused to say the least. I'm surprised. The mantra is calories expended minus calories consumed. So why wouldn't you expect to be 10 lbs lighter with that belly fat and love handles disappearing. Or muscles starting to appear everywhere...at least small ones.

Lol, im trying not to lose my mind here, I know all this shouldnt be this complicated. But Im working my arse off, and I am not really seeing a lot of results. I have the dedication to make myself do this, but I feel like Im doing something wrong, but dont know what it is.

As a side note. I tried MAX OT for the first time today and I must admit I didnt like it. I didnt feel like I was getting a good workout. I dont know if MAX OT is good for weight loss anyway, but I thought I would give it a shot. Usually I just work 1 or 2 muscle groups a day, doing 2-3 sets, increasing weight and decreasing reps on each set. I feel better doing that instead of MAX OT.

I read alot of people trying to lose fat, but don't want to build alot of muscle. In reality, the more muscle you have, the faster your metabolism, so the faster you burn fat.

Any program is a good one as long as you are doing it consistently.

Jason

Ok, here's some more info. I'm about 5'8, not sure of bodyfat %. I usually take in 1800-2100 cals a day, Im shooting for the 40p/40c/20f macros and I come pretty close each day. Then I fell off the routine a little, but have recently gotten back into it. I do steady state fasted cardio for 45-60 mins 1st thing in the morning at least 4 times a week. I weight train in the afternoons usually 3-4X a week. I've been doing this for almost 2 months now and with the exception of a pound or two, the weight is not coming off.

I get pretty confused about calories. Some say my 1800-2100 is too little and I need to bump up the calories. And some say that I need to lower them. Help?!!?

Age, weight, height??

Have you determined your BMR?

Where is your weight training spelled out? How much weight are you using for what exercises?

An average day's diet?

Usually I just work 1 or 2 muscle groups a day, doing 2-3 sets, increasing weight and decreasing reps on each set. I feel better doing that .
You feel better but you aren't getting results.

rtestes...I know you have some info for me!!!

Im 27, about 260, 5'8. Im not sure about BMR. When I am weight training, I use weights that I can get no more than about 15-20 reps out of. Then on the next set, I increase the weight, shooting for about 12-15 reps, then on the last set, I increase the weight some more and shoot for about 8-10 reps. I do notice that I am stronger and have more muscle tone. Only problem is that the muscles are hidden under some bodyfat!

An average day's diet, consists of protein shake, peanut butter on whole grain toast for breakfast, morning snack of maybe a protein bar. Lunch consists of chicken and rice or chicken and veggies. PWO consists of a protein shake and a banana. Few hours later I will maybe have a tuna sandwich. Dinner consists of chicken/fish and veggies. Add a little cottage cheese before bedtime.

Your calories are too low for your weight. I would increase to around 2500 - 2700. That will take off a little more than a lb per week. Make sure to spread it over 6 meals and eat clean and healthy. I think you would be better off upping the 40/40/20 to a 45 p/30 c/25 f ratio. You could go as high as 30 for fat. Just make sure they are good fats!

With weights, try to workout 3 times per week. Use heavy weights. Aim for 3 sets of 8-12 reps. You should be close to failure (with good form) on the last rep of the last set. Make sure to focus on compound movements. Compound movements burn the most calories due to requiring the largest number of muscles. Some examples of compound exercises: squats, deadlifts, dips, pullups, rows, shoulder press, leg press, lunges. Since you are female, you will not have to worry about forming big muscles.

More information:
Stumptous Women's Weight Training (http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html)
Rachel Cosgrove Women's Weight Training (http://www.rachelcosgrove.com/)
The Training Journal - Women's Weight Training (http://www.thetrainingjournal.com/)
Turbulence Training - A very good fat-loss workout (but costs $$) (http://www.turbulencetraining.com/)

Try to do cardio 3 times per week, on different days from your workout day. Work your way up to 45 minutes of low-intensity steady-state cardio (LISS). Occaisonally make sure to mix in some high-intensity interval training (HIIT) for 20 minutes, and some high-intensity steady-state. Variety is a key for cardio. One day use a treadmill, another a bike, another an elliptical, and another a rowing machine.

Get good rest, and make sure to take one day off! Stay determined and stay focused. Make sure to set miniature goals that you can accomplish on the way to your big goals. Good luck!

Just to expand on where I came up w/ 2500 - 2700 calories, I use a formula:

11 is just a multiplier, and the metabolic factor is 1.2 for low, 1.3 for middle, and 1.5 for high

weight * 11 * metabolic factor = maintainence calories
260 * 11 * 1.2 = 3,432

3,432 - 500 = 2,932 for losing 1 lb per week
3,432 - 1000 = 2,432 for losing 2 lbs per week

I stayed a little above 2 lbs per week because some people lose muscle at that point. Make sure its 6 meals per day (400 - 500 cals per meal). Put your carbs mostly in the morning and fats mostly at night, with protein throughout the day.

Everytime you lose a chunk of overall lbs, say 10-20 lbs, replug in your weight to keep the calories going down. :P

rtestes...I know you have some info for me!!!

Im 27, about 260, 5'8. Im not sure about BMR. When I am weight training, I use weights that I can get no more than about 15-20 reps out of. Then on the next set, I increase the weight, shooting for about 12-15 reps, then on the last set, I increase the weight some more and shoot for about 8-10 reps. I do notice that I am stronger and have more muscle tone. Only problem is that the muscles are hidden under some bodyfat!

An average day's diet, consists of protein shake, peanut butter on whole grain toast for breakfast, morning snack of maybe a protein bar. Lunch consists of chicken and rice or chicken and veggies. PWO consists of a protein shake and a banana. Few hours later I will maybe have a tuna sandwich. Dinner consists of chicken/fish and veggies. Add a little cottage cheese before bedtime.


Your BMR is 2366 calories I am going to give you an activity level of 1.55. So to maintain your weight you should eat 3667 calories. But we want to cut so lets drop 1000 calories for a possible 2lb loss. That means your total calories should be 2667 a day. You need to eat 5-6 meals a day. That mean 445 to 533 calories a meal.

For the time being, eat a balanced meal, 1/3 each of carbs, fats, and protein. A 533 meal would be 177.7 calories each that means 44.4 gms of carbs, 44 gms of protein and 19.7 gms of fat for each meal.

Now start planning your meals for this. You can eat the same breakfast and mid afternoon meals for a week at a time. Change your noon, supper and night meal to a more varied manner. If you don't like what I laid out, redo it just keep the calories. When you lose 15 lbs recalculate.

Your weight training, I recommend HIT but if you want to stay with a split and etc. I say lift the heaviest weights you can for 3 sets an exercise and keep your rest periods to less than 60 sec. It would be best to follow a plan that is spelled out in detail in a book or written material. One to go for the answers. You need a guru or a book.

Bad calculations corrected below:

Your BMR is 1979 calories I am going to give you an activity level of 1.55. So to maintain your weight you should eat 3067 calories. But we want to cut so lets drop 1000 calories for a possible 2lb loss. That means your total calories should be 2067 a day. You need to eat 5-6 meals a day. That mean 413 to 345 calories a meal.

For the time being, eat a balanced meal, 1/3 each of carbs, fats, and protein. A 413 meal would be 137.8 calories each that means 34.5 gms of carbs, 34.5 gms of protein and 15.3 gms of fat for each meal.

Now start planning your meals for this. You can eat the same breakfast and mid afternoon meals for a week at a time. Change your noon, supper and night meal to a more varied manner. If you don't like what I laid out, redo it just keep the calories. When you lose 15 lbs recalculate.

Your weight training, I recommend HIT but if you want to stay with a split and etc. I say lift the heaviest weights you can for 3 sets an exercise and keep your rest periods to less than 60 sec. It would be best to follow a plan that is spelled out in detail in a book or written material. One to go for the answers. You need a guru or a book

Thanks guys! That is some good info. One question though....what exactly is BMR and how do you come up with that number?

Thanks guys! That is some good info. One question though....what exactly is BMR and how do you come up with that number?
Go to the Introduction and Beginners Forum. Go to the first sticky My Guide to Nutrition. It's right in there. Or here is the link
BMR calculation here (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=1222)

Thanks guys! That is some good info. One question though....what exactly is BMR and how do you come up with that number?
Basial metabolism rate or the amount of calories that your body burns at rest without activity. I added a generous 1.55 activity level which takes care of amount of calories spend in activity then I subtracted the 1000 calories to bring you under expenditure.

It is an estimate like all things but it is a good one to start with.

:Not to sound like a smart ass but "what do you expect?" The same thing is happening to Obidiah, you, and me. I think people are tired of looking for reasons. You gotta believe. Try not to lose it and see what happens in another 2 months. Something has gotta give.

Leftyx is dead on. I had roughly the same issue, although I didn't fall off the wagon. Indeed, there is a lot of personal trial and error with diet and routine in the quest to gain bulk and muscle definition. You do have to believe and hang tough and see what comes in 2 months.

Personally, while I too thought the gains should be coming faster than they seemed to be, they ARE, in fact, coming. Perhaps many of us - including me - would do well to remember that our bodies are not designed to make rapid, quantum changes. That's why some have resorted to steroid use. Rather, like a stream of water cutting a new course, bulking, gaining low bf, and high muscle definition takes time. The body must be continually reworked and recut over a period of time. KEEP AT IT!