I am curious to know what type of cardio produces the best results for the majority of people, i do realise this will be different for some individuals. I currently do fasted LISS first thing in the morning but due to a new job i might not have the time to continue this. I try to eat a protein and fat meal after my cardio, but sometimes i have oats which i suppose may reduce the fat burning effect of the cardio.

So guys i pose the questions:-
What type of cardio has produced the best results for you?
When do you do it?
How long for?
What do you eat after and/or before?

LISS first thing a.m. fasted state.

Burns fat for fuel, increases metabolism over the course of the day, and gets blood circulating to encourage repair of muscles worked the day prior. An impeccable eating protocol is key as well to this equation.

~SC~

So guys i pose the questions:-

What type of cardio has produced the best results for you?
High intensity, steady state - non-fasted

When do you do it?
After lifting about twice/week and about 2 times/week on non-lifting days

How long for?
15-20 mins if after lifting, ~40 mins if not lifting first

What do you eat after and/or before? Before I eat banana on lifting days, lunch around 1pm but nothing else till the cardio at about 5 pm. After I eat my PWO meal when after lifting, I eat whatever I want about an hour or so after just cardio workouts.


Not your traditional method, but it works well for me since I won't get up any earlier than I do in the mornings.

i voted fasted LISS because that's how i lost 97 lbs in 1 year.

but i also lost a great deal of muscle with that 97 lbs.
altho, that could have been because long distance running was becoming a hobby of mine.
i would go for *fasted* 6 and 8 mile runs sometimes, get home, take a shower, get ready for school, and THEN eat.


so in summary - dont go over 45 minutes in a cardio session, and eat a protein/fat meal immediately afterwards.

i voted fasted LISS because that's how i lost 97 lbs in 1 year.

i would go for *fasted* 6 and 8 mile runs sometimes, get home, take a shower, get ready for school, and THEN eat.

6 to 8 mile runs are by no means LISS. It is evident why doing that regularly, fasted would lead to muscle loss. Especially on any kind of cutting diet.

6 to 8 mile runs are by no means LISS. It is evident why doing that regularly, fasted would lead to muscle loss. Especially on any kind of cutting diet.
hah.. definatly.. definatly...
but at first, i didnt know better. i was always thinking - "twice the input, twice the output".
they were more like jogs though, kept between 60-80% maxhr.

What is the optimal amount of LISS to do while cutting if you are wieght training 3 times a week (M/W/F).

Is 45 minutes every day you're not lifting OK? Would every day be too much (including lifting days)?

you can do fasted LISS everyday, just dont do it before weights.
i like to give myself a day's rest once a week, though.

What is the optimal amount of LISS to do while cutting if you are wieght training 3 times a week (M/W/F).

Is 45 minutes every day you're not lifting OK? Would every day be too much (including lifting days)?

There are thousands of threads on this issue. Rather than start a discussion not in keeping with the thread topic, please give the search function a shot - you'll get more material than you care to ever read on the subect.

I voted with Swolecat, and his post sums up my feelings as well.

-R

Cheers for the replys guys :) im getting some good advice here and it seems at this point that fasted state LISS may well be most succesfull way to shed that fat. Doh that means more early mornings on the eliptical :mad:

Cheers for the replys guys :) im getting some good advice here and it seems at this point that fasted state LISS may well be most succesfull way to shed that fat. Doh that means more early mornings on the eliptical :mad:

Do not discount the ability of HIIT to work for you. You're just seeing the louder mouths chime in here and many advocate LISS. Lest I be mistaken, John Stone's transformation was built exclusively on HIIT - and you can't argue with his results.

The bottom line really is that you need to just try them out and see which you like better - cardio you enjoy doing is cardio you will continue to perform. Don't do one or the other because it's most efficient - do it because you like to do it and it'll produce results.

People, especially those new to fitness, seem to come in here fixated on efficiency. Efficiency means nothing if you don't like what you're doing! You'll hate it, your attitude will reflect your distaste, and your results will suffer.

Please consider yourself and what you enjoy before you consider what's most efficient.

-R

1-2 hard (well-fueld) interval sessions a week and 1-2 moderate intensity steady state avoiding carbs around. Some additional incline treadmill walking fasted if necessary. Everything done on non-lifting days except the treadmill walking when done.

Cheers for the replys guys :) im getting some good advice here and it seems at this point that fasted state LISS may well be most succesfull way to shed that fat. Doh that means more early mornings on the eliptical :mad:

Let's be realistic here. NOTHING against those who have chimed in, but you've had 8 people vote that they do LISS fasted, only 2 or 3 of who actually replied.

LISS works, it's been proven to work time and time again, and I think the fact that such a top rate coach (SwoleCat) uses it speaks enough about the effectiveness of LISS.

BUT, realize that millions of other people use many different forms of cardio, many trainers as well, and they still see excellent results. I don't know anything about how your body reacts to what activity, but if you want to give something else a try, GO AHEAD. Don't worry about what other people did right now, see how it works for you and if it works great, if not, you sure aren't going to get fatter doing a different kind of cardio, so just go back to LISS.

This is of course only if you really dislike doing LISS in the morning. I always said and never will change my stance: Do the cardio you enjoy. It's the only form you'll continue to do time and time again.

John may have done HIIT, however he lost a lot of muscle as well, and he himself will tell you this.

Now, take John currently doing MY suggestions/protocol and he is losing fat AND GAINING LEAN MASS at the same time. That's right, not just keeping the lean mass he has, but GAINING IT at the same time as cutting.

Something to think about. ;)

~SC~

1-2 hard (well-fueld) interval sessions a week and 1-2 moderate intensity steady state avoiding carbs around. Some additional incline treadmill walking fasted if necessary. Everything done on non-lifting days except the treadmill walking when done.

rtestes, is that you? :p

John may have done HIIT, however he lost a lot of muscle as well, and he himself will tell you this.

Now, take John currently doing MY suggestions/protocol and he is losing fat AND GAINING LEAN MASS at the same time. That's right, not just keeping the lean mass he has, but GAINING IT at the same time as cutting.

Something to think about. ;)

~SC~

Well, in all fairness, he was also eating like 1200 calories back then and doing HIIT fasted, and EVERY DAY. I mean, it's got to be expected you're going to lose some lean mass. And, again, if I recall, he did only lose 3 lbs of muscle despite all of the sure fire ways to lose muscle mass.

Not looking to butt heads over here as we're both trying to offer advice. I just think people should also know that many people can maintain/gain lean mass even while doing higher intensity cardio. If you avoid doing it fasted and eat properly, it's pretty safe to say muscle loss will NOT occur at all.

rtestes, is that you? :p
:lol:

rtestes, is that you? :p
:lol: :lol:

Yeah, true his calories were lower. If people do eat before HIIT they may be able to avoid excessive loss of muscle, but then you have the issue of it doing nothing to burn fat and get cut, which is what John desires.

~SC~


Well, in all fairness, he was also eating like 1200 calories back then and doing HIIT fasted, and EVERY DAY. I mean, it's got to be expected you're going to lose some lean mass. And, again, if I recall, he did only lose 3 lbs of muscle despite all of the sure fire ways to lose muscle mass.

Not looking to butt heads over here as we're both trying to offer advice. I just think people should also know that many people can maintain/gain lean mass even while doing higher intensity cardio. If you avoid doing it fasted and eat properly, it's pretty safe to say muscle loss will NOT occur at all.

So guys i pose the questions:-
What type of cardio has produced the best results for you?
balls to the wall cardio

When do you do it?
morning mostly, if I can't work it in then.... night-time

How long for?
18-20 mins

What do you eat after and/or before?
normal before (same as a pre-workout....a little less carbs)...however no PWO shake after.

course then I bike into work....which is technically a second 20 min session.
then I bike home....which is technically a 3rd 20 min session.

In the winter I walk as fast as I can for 30 min and then jump on a bus....I used to walk really fast for 1 hour in to work and then 1 hour home but that really drained me too much to do a proper workout.

HIIT has worked the best for me so far. i eat an omelet a hour and 15 before i do it though.

25minutes on non lifting day, and 14minutes on lifting days (post workout). weight is coming off quick, and im actually making slight gains in my lifting. ive only been doing this for a couple of weeks though, we'll see what i do when i hit another plateau

fasted LISS with protein fat meal after has always been the winner for me.

Let's be realistic here. NOTHING against those who have chimed in, but you've had 8 people vote that they do LISS fasted, only 2 or 3 of who actually replied.

LISS works, it's been proven to work time and time again, and I think the fact that such a top rate coach (SwoleCat) uses it speaks enough about the effectiveness of LISS.

BUT, realize that millions of other people use many different forms of cardio, many trainers as well, and they still see excellent results. I don't know anything about how your body reacts to what activity, but if you want to give something else a try, GO AHEAD. Don't worry about what other people did right now, see how it works for you and if it works great, if not, you sure aren't going to get fatter doing a different kind of cardio, so just go back to LISS.



This is of course only if you really dislike doing LISS in the morning. I always said and never will change my stance: Do the cardio you enjoy. It's the only form you'll continue to do time and time again.


LISS worked BIG TIME for me! :D

LISS. I do mine fasted but it's more out of convenience (first thing in the morning) than anything else. For me it's running. Eliptical may work fine, too, but for my money the more miles you can run the better. Throw those bad boys on. I maintain that the reputation cardio has for catabolism is overhyped--not to say it doesn't have one, but it's not like 10-15 miles/week will make you lose an inch off your arms. Do some serious cardio and follow a strict diet and fat will fly away.

For ME, I had MY best cutting results with no cardio.

Jason

It's only a matter of time untill the LISS/HIIT discussion turns up :)
Personally, I've always used LISS and still am, and it has worked as a charm. In all fairness I never really felt much for HIIT, just cuz I dont *like to do HIIT. I have to agree with KT on this one: just do the cardio you like, for the simple reason you'll most likely keep doing it!
And doing it will get you results. (in combination with a good diet of course... I can feel SwoleCat breathing down my neck) ;)

HIIT fasted state first thing in the morning. There are success stories with both HIIT (Bill Phillips "Body for Life") and LISS (Swolecat and SGX). LISS did NOT really work for me. HIIT does. But Swole, I have a question. If its true that HIIT burns more muscle than LISS, how is it that sprinters are much bigger than long distance runners? I'm not trying to be smart or clever here, just an honest question. :o I realise there is use of steroids and other enhancements but everywhere I have read from internet articles to books, it says that HIIT is much better at preserving muscle and I haven't read anything that says otherwise. Or am I being silly and narrow-minded? :drool:

HIIT fasted state first thing in the morning. There are success stories with both HIIT (Bill Phillips "Body for Life") and LISS (Swolecat and SGX). LISS did NOT really work for me. HIIT does. But Swole, I have a question. If its true that HIIT burns more muscle than LISS, how is it that sprinters are much bigger than long distance runners? I'm not trying to be smart or clever here, just an honest question. :o I realise there is use of steroids and other enhancements but everywhere I have read from internet articles to books, it says that HIIT is much better at preserving muscle and I haven't read anything that says otherwise. Or am I being silly and narrow-minded? :drool:

I don't think it's true. I respect Swole's ideas and the results he's gotten for his clients. But other top strength coaches recommend interval work for maximal muscle retention and quick fat loss. And I've had great results with it as a practical matter. There's no one way and different things work for different people. I do think that it's important to be well-fueled if doing interval work for maximum muscle maintenance.

The most effective cardio I've done, is getting up from my recliner and walking at a moderate pace to my refrigerator, then back to my recliner. I do this several times a day. If I want to focus and harden up my glute/ham tie-ins, I'll squeeze my butt as I step off the ball of my foot. This method is usually performed at a faster clip during a cutting phase only :D

Yeah, true his calories were lower. If people do eat before HIIT they may be able to avoid excessive loss of muscle, but then you have the issue of it doing nothing to burn fat and get cut, which is what John desires.

~SC~

So if I need lets say 2500 cals to maintain my body weight and I eat 2500 cals but then do HIIT or something other than LISS that burns off 500 cals, what happens to that deficit? Are you saying that 500 cal deficit will not be fat loss? So over a week I will lose 1lb muscle?

If I do the above for a week (3500 cal deficit) then assuming my protein is high and I am working out with weights then surely chances are that loss of 1lb body weight will be fat right?

So whether I do HIIT, LISS or chopping wood, swimming etc, assuming I'm getting lets say 300g of protein a day, flax, PB for fats, dropping carbs to create the deficit, eating low GI carbs, a 3500 week deficit is going to drop 1lb and it doesn't matter what I did in terms of cardio?

I've been cutting for 9 weeks now and I've gained muscle and lost fat, during those 9 weeks I have done some HIIT, some LISS and for a week or so no cardio. I have not found a difference in fat loss from week to week, in fact if anything I would say I lost more fat and looked fuller during no cardio at all.

I'm just having a hard time understanding that there is any real significance between cardio methods, surely 98% is down to diet or am I mistaken? Or does it not matter as much until you start to get down to 10% or less?

LISS worked BIG TIME for me! :D

What percentage of your success could be attributed to LISS and what percentage your diet? Just curious as to how much emphasis you put on either the LISS or the diet.

What percentage of your success could be attributed to LISS and what percentage your diet? Just curious as to how much emphasis you put on either the LISS or the diet.

In all honesty, I have no F' ing idea! :D Seriously. This was my first cut ever. I can tell you this though. I was originally doing fasted LISS and had to stop because I was dropping weight too fast. When I began doing it after I ate my losses definetely slowed down. I'm pretty sure the success of my cut was due to my diet. However, LISS cardio DEFINETELY helped shed some lbs.

I am considering trying cardio after weight training due to time constraints, so ill let you know how it goes.

So if I need lets say 2500 cals to maintain my body weight and I eat 2500 cals but then do HIIT or something other than LISS that burns off 500 cals, what happens to that deficit? Are you saying that 500 cal deficit will not be fat loss? So over a week I will lose 1lb muscle?

>When you work out your maintenance calories, you have already inputted how much exercise you will perform. So, theoretically, if the Harris-Benedict formula says 2500kcal for exercise 6 times a week, then eating 2500kcal will cause no changes. Eating 2000kcal and continuing the same exercise routine will cause 1lb fat loss a week. It is not recommended when doing HIIT to go on more than a 500kcal deficit. As for the last part of the paragraph, no you will not lose 1lb muscle doing HIIT. That's not what Swole meant. What he meant was that HIIT burns more muscle tha LISS but most of the weight lost will still be fat. This is what I wanna know, HIIT has been known to be better at muscle retention.... :confused:

If I do the above for a week (3500 cal deficit) then assuming my protein is high and I am working out with weights then surely chances are that loss of 1lb body weight will be fat right?

>Right...theoretically!

So whether I do HIIT, LISS or chopping wood, swimming etc, assuming I'm getting lets say 300g of protein a day, flax, PB for fats, dropping carbs to create the deficit, eating low GI carbs, a 3500 week deficit is going to drop 1lb and it doesn't matter what I did in terms of cardio?

>I'll be honest. I think about 1g of ANIMAL (complete) protein per lb of bodyweight is enough. There are plenty of studies suggesting this. So 300g of protein per day should be about right for a 300lb person, all fat or all muscle, so to speak. I agree with you on the last part. I don't think it matters that much what cardio you do, just how much of it.

I've been cutting for 9 weeks now and I've gained muscle and lost fat, during those 9 weeks I have done some HIIT, some LISS and for a week or so no cardio. I have not found a difference in fat loss from week to week, in fact if anything I would say I lost more fat and looked fuller during no cardio at all.

>Then don't do cardio!

I'm just having a hard time understanding that there is any real significance between cardio methods, surely 98% is down to diet or am I mistaken? Or does it not matter as much until you start to get down to 10% or less?

>I don't think there is an optimal cardio, nor a significant difference. I like sprinting much more than a slow jog, so I do HIIT running. That's it. If I liked digging, I would dig for 20 minutes or so. If I liked swimming, I would swim for 20 minutes or so. Just get active! I think people are getting too caught up in exact measurements "must do HIIT with EXACTLY 15 second sprints and 45 second jog" or "can't eat that apple, that will put me 50kcal over my 2000kcal limit" or "every day, must take in 5g of flaxseed oil, 2g of cod liver oil, 4g of....". I'm not saying eat that chocolate bar or forget about micronutrients. Be smart and do it right but don't be too specific!

Put anwers in between your quotes. Thanks!

John may have done HIIT, however he lost a lot of muscle as well, and he himself will tell you this.

Now, take John currently doing MY suggestions/protocol and he is losing fat AND GAINING LEAN MASS at the same time. That's right, not just keeping the lean mass he has, but GAINING IT at the same time as cutting.

Something to think about. ;)

~SC~


THANK YOU SC!

This explains why I started losing muscle and fat evenly. I am going back to LISS.