Hi everybody,

I urge each one of you to come in and give you two bobs worth on Alcohol and how it hinders your progress. Let me start with my opinion after doing some research.

Basically, what I'm going to try and do is I will go out and drink once a week. Now some weeks I may not drink much at all, and some weeks I may drink a lot more than most weeks. My point is, it's Saturday night and I'm ready to have some silly antics with my mates. We are all 21/22 and will be moving on with careers/wives and other endeavours soon and I feel staying home every weekend will hurt me mentally, as I will regret it further down the track.

I've seen some posts on here about how alcohol hinders muscle process and fat loss. Now I'm not a bodybuilder and don't want to be one, however there are some good points as to why we shouldnt drink alcohol.

But come on I know every young person who has a lot of mates who like to go out and hit the turps on the weekend know where I'm coming from. I play cricket in the hot sun all day every Saturday and at the end of it, I want to go out and have a big one and do the normal young blokey thing (pick up chicks and talk rubbish with my mates). I'm definatley not saying that Alcohol is the centre of my universe, but being around that scene is definatley one worth remembering. I can honestly say I've had some great times with the boys when on the turps, and some I will remember for a lifetime.

Now as for exercise, I bust my ass during the week, I run 4k's every day and on top of that, do hill sprints, endurance running, and weights all week, then play cricket all day Saturday. Sunday I use to motivate myself for the following week.

I cut out drinking for 2 months and went well, but as time went on I feel like going out with the boys and having fun. If I find I'm putting on weight I'll cut it back, but I'll just see how it goes.

Thats my two cents worth, when I'm older I will get more serious about it, but right now I bust my ass during the week and live it up on a Saturday night, a good balance if you ask me.

Whats everyone think?

Absolutely go and have your fun in the weekends. You probably know how to be mindful of the alcohol energy content and other things, and you work hard on workdays... so why not enjoy life while you're young :). Sure, it's detrimental, and you wouldn't progress as fast as you could, but since social life is also important to you for good reasons, and everything considered, I'd say you will still make progress. Just as long as you don't all-out binge so hard that it would negate the whole week's work. :p

Ha I like the way you put this as it's all in the name of "research"....ya "research" that's what you're doing. ;)

Don't worry about a drink here and there....some people are anal about this and some aren't.

Red wine, for instance, has lots of phenols that are actually good for you.....hence the "french paradox".

Don't sweat social drinking, but don't overdo it either.

I may go out once a month and have some beers. It usually comes on some special occasion, otherwise I stay away from it. Not because of a body decision but for money and the fact that I'd rather stay at home with my wife and dog.

When I do go out I feel really bloated the next day and so sluggish. It is like having a hangover times 10! But the good times are well worth it IMO. You said it yourself. There is more to health than a great looking body, mental health is important too. Too much stress and not enough fun will make you go nuts! And what's the use of looking ripped if you can't stand to live with yourself?!?!?

During my cutting phase I went the entire time without touching it (except Superbowl Sunday). Now that I am where I want to be and I am just trying to maintain how I look I will go out for the special events with friends and co-workers. It has not hurt me in anyway since I eat really well all the other times of the week. It just takes about 4 days for the bloatedness and water weight to completely go.

In a nutshell, enjoy yourself!

I just can't do the alcohol thing anymore, I don't like the feeling I have over the next couple of days, the dehydration, crappy sleep, etc.

~SC~

Whats everyone think?
Well, I don't think it's much of a debate at all, there's so much documented proof that show the negative effects that drinking has and how removing it from your diet can aid in your journey to the ultimate you, and I have absolutely never heard anyone say knocking back a few 40's will somehow help you get into better physical shape, so again, there isn't really any debate.

Does that mean you can't achieve an amazing body if you do continue to drink? absolutely not, it's indeed possible, but if you want the best possible results in the shortest amount of time, alcohol consumption should be stopped.

I don't drink. I'm not going to preach any more about it on these boards. If anybody wants to talk to me about it, you're always welcome to PM me.

Although I will say that there are other potential explanations for the "French Paradox" than red wine, not the least of which is relative consumption of trans fats vs. saturated fats.

For me, there can be no balance between a healthy lifestyle, i.e. lifting, eating clean, and competing, with drinking. A bit too extreme? I think not. Drinking has no place in what I am trying to accomplish from day to day.

I don't drink.

Thats my two cents worth, when I'm older I will get more serious about it, but right now I bust my ass during the week and live it up on a Saturday night, a good balance if you ask me.

Whats everyone think?

Why wait until you're older? I have plenty of fun with my friends without drinking, even if they are. Alcohol is best eliminated, "French paradox" or not. I'm sure it can be had from time to time in small doses - anything in varying degrees of moderation, depending on your goals, won't hurt you. I do indulge in one or two beers when out with friends, but if that happens once a month, that's often.

While I prefer to ease into things, slowly cutting out those detrimental habits one by one, in the end, this does become an all-or-nothing effort to reach my goal(s). When I've got that ball rolling strong, alcohol just isn't a part of it in any way, shape or form.

You do what you want - if you feel a chemical is what you need to have fun with friends... maybe you might want to re-evaluate the friends, too. I did when I changed my lifestyle... the new friends I have, in many ways, have made a great deal of difference.

Just something to think about... this is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

-R

I don't drink very often, but mostly because I have the tolerance of a flea. Three sips and I'm falling asleep. :)

I allow myself one free day a week. If I choose to have a drink that week, it would be that day. A drink here or there with friends on that day is entirely acceptable. That said, I wouldn't drink all that much, or all that often, or it would probably negate all my clean eating the rest of the week.

If you will feel deprived without a pint or two, then have one or two..but set limits regarding how much and how often. That way, it's a planned treat, not something you do and regret it the next day when you are back to clean eating and training! :D

It takes a lot of hard work to compensate for the calories you consume in alcohol. But if you don't mind the work, go ahead. It takes a lot of hard work to compensate for the brownies and ice cream that I eat as well, but it's worth every second of it.

Don't make a guilt trip of it. You know the facts; decide where your priorities are and live with it.

I don't drink. I'm not going to preach any more about it on these boards. If anybody wants to talk to me about it, you're always welcome to PM me.

Although I will say that there are other potential explanations for the "French Paradox" than red wine, not the least of which is relative consumption of trans fats vs. saturated fats.

For some reason, I get the feeling we may be coming from the same place. I'll pass on this myself. :tucool:

I dont think there's settling it. It all depends just what your goals are, how alcohol effects you, how much and how often you drink, and if it's a problem for you. There's really very little to no physical benefit to it, in my opinion. But that doesn't mean everyone should abstain either.

I lead a balanced lifestyle. I'm not a body-builder nor do I wish to become one. I am fit and live a healthy life style >90% of the time. I don't smoke (for obvious reasons) and I drink on occasions with my friends and go out and have a kick-ass time. Do I regret it next morning? Yeah, sometimes. But, hey, like others have stated on this board, you gotta do what you enjoy, as long as it's in moderation. I don't eat brownies and cookies and ice cream 'cuz I don't really enjoy or crave them. But, I do love a cold beer, or 2 or 3 on occasion.

As far as the "adverse" effects of alcohol, I've done years of research on liver disease (to be specific, alcohol-induced since it is the one of th e leading causes of liver disease in the world). I don't think many people on this board have enough "human" clinical data to support the physiological effects, at least in the purest sense, of what they are stating. Animal models and cellular/molecular models have too many confounding factors.

I don't think many people on this board have enough "human" clinical data to support the physiological effects, at least in the purest sense, of what they are stating. Animal models and cellular/molecular models have too many confounding factors.[/QUOTE]

I think you're missing the point. No one is talking about the "physiological" effects of alcohol consumption.I believe they're referring to the effect a hangover has on workout productivity.

Personally, I don't drink alcohol at all - ever. Haven't done for a couple of years. I stopped drinking it a fair while before I started on my fitness path. I may not have been ready at that time to stop eating junk food, nor to start exercising, but at the very least I was ready to avoid something as harmful and worthless as alcohol.

I don't think many people on this board have enough "human" clinical data to support the physiological effects, at least in the purest sense, of what they are stating. Animal models and cellular/molecular models have too many confounding factors.

I think you're missing the point. No one is talking about the "physiological" effects of alcohol consumption.I believe they're referring to the effect a hangover has on workout productivity.

Totally agree with doordude there....but there is a big difference of one glass of wine or spirits with a meal versus a binger. Any time I refer to drinking alcohol I'm talking one glass. I realize the poster is talking about several drinks on a night out, that would be detrimental.

Myself, I rarely touch the stuff...but occasionally enjoy a nice deep red with a steak on special occassions. Can't stand beer any more since it's just too heavy a drink for me. A buddy of mine rolled his eyes when he asked if I wanted a beer and I said I was good with water. He left it at that but geez you'd think I slapped him in the face or something :(

I think you're missing the point. No one is talking about the "physiological" effects of alcohol consumption.I believe they're referring to the effect a hangover has on workout productivity.

Totally agree there....but there is a big difference of one glass of wine or spirits with a meal versus a binger. Any time I refer to drinking alcohol I'm talking one glass. I realize the poster is talking about several drinks on a night out, that would be detrimental.

Myself, I rarely touch the stuff...but occasionally enjoy a nice deep red with a steak on special occassions. Can't stand beer any more since it's just too heavy a drink for me. A buddy of mine rolled his eyes when he asked if I wanted a beer and I said I was good with water. He left it at that but geez you'd think I slapped him in the face or something :([/QUOTE]

Hey, I didn't post that. I posted the part about the effects of a hangover on productivity!!!! : :(
You have my post as your quote!!! The quote about not enough info. was made by Barber!!!!!!!!!!

I've read the thread, and am still trying to figure out what the debate is. I come at this from the perspective of someone who is a pretty light drinker, but one who likes a glass of wine or a beer once in a while.

It won't kill you in moderation (most of the time). But it has calories, it affects your liver and how you process fat, and dehydrates you to some extent. How much depends on your own chemistry and the amount that you drink.

In short, it's not good for you - there are worse things, but it's not good. It's also not like eating 40 lbs of fries and trans fat.

At that point, it becomes a tradeoff.

ok heres my 2 cents...go out and have fun man. youre right, you will regret it someday if you dont. going to a bar with friends can be a lot of fun. if you are going to drink,i suggest vodka and diet coke. beer isnt the best idea (carbs/calories) but a shot of vodka has like 64 calories i think with no carbs or anything.

just be aware that A. youre probly not gunna have a good workout the next day and B. you can treat it as your "cheat" for the week. eat clean and work hard during the week and theres no reason why you shouldnt be able to reward yourself on the weekends.

WWJSD? ( What Would John Stone Do? ) :p

I think it depends on everyone's priorities.

I will never criticise anyone's opinion as they are all meaningful. It's obvious everybody knows the physical affects of alcohol, and yes in moderation it is ok.

But the word 'moderation' is different to everyone. For a heavy drinker, 'moderation' would mean 1 night of alcohol a week. For someone who does not drink much 'moderation' means a glass of wine every 3 months.

I think people get the wrong idea when us young college kids (I am not in college - but lead a similar lifestyle) say they like to go out and get bombed on the weekend. I think if I say I have had some of the best and funniest times of my life while drunk, people will think I need alcohol to have fun. Not the case. However we do like to muck around, and sure I have priorities and goals like everyone else, but I am more interested in sports and athleticism, not too worried about my max bench in the week, where alcohol would hurt that gain.

I think its safe to say, alcohol in moderation is fine and if it's not hurting your gains or losses, and you do exercise rather heavily during the week, its ok. Just don't drink yourself into a coma everyday.

I am one of the biggest fickle-like people here when it comes to alcohol. I've tried going off it for good, I've tried living it up, right now I'm trying to find a balance, and the sooner I do that and overcome my demons, the sooner I can concentrate on my goals.

For me beer is a real killer. 3 or 4 is a definate gain. A couple jack & diet cokes never seem to make me gain weight. When I am drinking I am more likely to eat crap late at night.

After a long time without alcohol, I finally took 4 pegs of rum one night this weekend. I felt very weak yesterday and today :( This was my first peg after almost 2 months. Alcohol for sure does affect lifting abilities...

Looks like the best thing is to take it out completely. I'll try.

It kind of sounds like you are trying to convince yourself (and perhaps get validation here) that alcohol won't hurt your progress. If you want to settle it, then here is the answer: Yes, drinking hurts your progress ...even if you are just getting drunk on the weekends. It inhibits protein synthesis, lowers testosterone, adds calories, dehydrates you, and prevents the absorption of b-vitamins. So there, it is settled. Now you have to decide what you want to do with that information.

That being said, sometimes the enjoyment you get out of drinking outweighs the harm it does to your physical goals. That is a judgment call you have to make, but be realistic about it. Don't try and convince yourself that it doesn't do any harm...instead, recognize and accept the harm it does, and make a rational decision on that basis. You can drink moderately and still progress with your training, but your progress certainly won't be optimal. You have to decide whether non-optimal progress is an OK trade-off.

It kind of sounds like you are trying to convince yourself (and perhaps get validation here) that alcohol won't hurt your progress. If you want to settle it, then here is the answer: Yes, drinking hurts your progress ...even if you are just getting drunk on the weekends. It inhibits protein synthesis, lowers testosterone, adds calories, dehydrates you, and prevents the absorption of b-vitamins. So there, it is settled. Now you have to decide what you want to do with that information.

That being said, sometimes the enjoyment you get out of drinking outweighs the harm it does to your physical goals. That is a judgment call you have to make, but be realistic about it. Don't try and convince yourself that it doesn't do any harm...instead, recognize and accept the harm it does, and make a rational decision on that basis. You can drink moderately and still progress with your training, but your progress certainly won't be optimal. You have to decide whether non-optimal progress is an OK trade-off.

All of the effects you said are ture. But I think it would depend on whether, given what you said, drinking on the weekends would harm your progress to any measurable degree. I would hazard to say no. But if it might would it harm it to a degree than is to a degree that would make you make you less than satisfied with it. For myself, I drank on the weekends as an athlete. My sports were soccer, track, and cross country. Our teams were very good, and on a personal level, I won races all the time. So there was no real measurable way of determining any effect. It's possible that I might have shaved a second or two off my time by not drinking year-round. Don't know. In fact, I did usually abstain completely the last few weeks before districts and states. No way of knowing how it affected my performance. But I do feel like that committment was a psychological boost in a way if nothing more than that. The rest of the year, there was no reason for it for me.

Hey, I didn't post that. I posted the part about the effects of a hangover on productivity!!!! : :(
You have my post as your quote!!! The quote about not enough info. was made by Barber!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry man....no harm intended....your original post is missing the "[QUOTE]" tag which is why it threw your name against it. I've corrected my post so everything is clearer. :D

Sorry man....no harm intended....your original post is missing the "[QUOTE]" tag which is why it threw your name against it. I've corrected my post so everything is clearer. :D

No biggy! :D

Does that mean you can't achieve an amazing body if you do continue to drink? absolutely not, it's indeed possible, but if you want the best possible results in the shortest amount of time, alcohol consumption should be stopped.

Agreed. Will periodic alcohol consumption kill all your fitness progress? Of course not. Will it slow your progress? Yes.


As far as the "adverse" effects of alcohol, I've done years of research on liver disease (to be specific, alcohol-induced since it is the one of th e leading causes of liver disease in the world). I don't think many people on this board have enough "human" clinical data to support the physiological effects, at least in the purest sense, of what they are stating. Animal models and cellular/molecular models have too many confounding factors.

I'm not quite sure I'm following you. There's tons of published data regarding the physiological effects of alcohol on humans. (Ever seen a drunkard trying to pass a road-side sobriety test? Certainly you can't argue that alcohol consumption hasn't had a physiological effect on that person) But, either way, that's not what we're talking about.

I think the main issue here is the nutritional content of alcoholic drinks. Most drinks are calorie-packed, with most of the nutritional content coming from sugar. The amount of sugar alone you're taking in by consuming a few drinks at night can throw off your diet significantly. This is especially true of anyone following a low-carb or carbohydrate cycling diet.

So again, will alcohol consumption ruin your progress? No...but it will certainly hinder it.

I don't have much to say that hasn't been said before but I'll comment on the "French paradox", being French.

The French paradox is a bit of a myth in my opinion. There are plenty of sick, unhealthy people in France, and some people with cirrhosis who are killing themselves with alcohol. And there are also healthy people who drink less or not at all.

Sure, red wine has a few beneficial components in it: antioxydants (in French).

But when you look at it coldly, alcohol is a toxic. As soon as you absorb it the liver gets busy detoxifying it, removing it from your bloodstream. In the meantime it cannot process food. It's also highly caloric, if memory serves it's 8 calories per gram, only 1 less than fat and double the calories per gram of protein or carbs with NO nutritional value at all. For people on restricted calories it can spell disaster, especially as drinking does not particularly put you in a state where you care how much total calories you absorb during the drinking session and there may be fatty food around too.

Now as a Frenchman wine is part of my cultural background, supposedly. Yes I have had wine on many occasions in my life, mostly just as part of meals (never "just for fun" except a couple of times when young). I know my Saint-Estephe from my Saint-Emilion and which one complements which food best.

When I started to care about my body though, I stopped cold. Nearly: I have had alcohol three times this year so far: a small glass of Champagne on my son's fifth birthday, a sip on my wife's birthday, another small glass on her dad's birthday. I don't miss it and normally I don't "take part" when people drink. It's just that on some occasions it seems like refusing is a bit extreme.

I'm not saying you should be like me though. It's just... a point of view, my take on this. Works for me.

On the other hand, I have seen lives wrecked by alcohol (and other drugs). Well we all know what it can do, I won't expand on that.

Whatever you do, enjoy it.

Vincent.

It kind of sounds like you are trying to convince yourself (and perhaps get validation here) that alcohol won't hurt your progress. If you want to settle it, then here is the answer: Yes, drinking hurts your progress ...even if you are just getting drunk on the weekends. It inhibits protein synthesis, lowers testosterone, adds calories, dehydrates you, and prevents the absorption of b-vitamins. So there, it is settled. Now you have to decide what you want to do with that information.

That being said, sometimes the enjoyment you get out of drinking outweighs the harm it does to your physical goals. That is a judgment call you have to make, but be realistic about it. Don't try and convince yourself that it doesn't do any harm...instead, recognize and accept the harm it does, and make a rational decision on that basis. You can drink moderately and still progress with your training, but your progress certainly won't be optimal. You have to decide whether non-optimal progress is an OK trade-off.

You are definatley right man. After last night - I think a couple of drinks on the weekend is my limit. I was just grabbing everything last night, Bourbon, Vodka, Beer, anything. I ended up walking about 15-20km to get home, totally suprised I didn't get my head smashed in. Anyway my 2 cents has changed from get drunk over the weekend, to a few drinks. Always stay in control, once you lose control it's all over.

I think I have to be honest with myself here and say that I cannot handle too much alcohol. It just has so much of a negative strain on my mental state it's not worth worrying about. I think if I go out from now on I'll stick to a few vodka & diet cokes, or a couple of cold beers, and then leave it at that.

On Saturday night it happened again. I have no problem admitting it here as I know you all are a good bunch of people with the same passion as mine - fitness. So yeah I've got a problem with too much alcohol. I have one too many and I really start to lose it, I get violent and aggressive. I don't know why it happens to me but it's just the way I am. It's a shame because a lot of my friends get drunk and have a great time. I think I just need to limit the number of drinks I have.

I think a lot of it is also to do with peer pressure. At the moment, theres me, and then there is my friends. Now they need alcohol to have a good time, and I'm talking paraletic drunk. They have no particular ambition other than to get blotto on the weekends. But I'm different. I really need to get serious with myself and say "Hey. Fitness is more important. I'd much rather have a few, then a few too many".

And my mates think I'm a f*cking retard for the amount of fitness I do and the consideration I put into my health. They must think I f*cking eat grass or something. Whenever I want to stay home on a saturday night its "You poof. Why aren't you coming out with us and getting on the drink? You will regret this someday. These are the best days of our life now and we're all going to move on soon, so why not come out and live it up?"

Maybe I'm the one who just needs to step up and stand my ground on this one instead of crumbling. Whenever I drink I ask "Is this what I really want, or am I being pressured into it?"

I dont know.