When doing cardio for 45 mins at between 70% - 80% (134 - 153) it just seems too slow, I am basically doing a fast walk at about 4.5 - 5.0 miles an hour. Is this right ?

I am more than comfortable at a faster pace for the same time. It just feels like I am the only one walking when there are shredded dudes hitting a steady jog next to me.

Thanks for you help for those who have the time to reply

All depends on what you want... if your goal is to burn fat and SPARE your muscle, you will learn to do it at a slower pace. I do 45 minutes daily around 118-120 on an elliptical. Mind you, I'm 39 so my HR will naturally be lower.

All depends on what you want... if your goal is to burn fat and SPARE your muscle, you will learn to do it at a slower pace. I do 45 minutes daily around 118-120 on an elliptical. Mind you, I'm 39 so my HR will naturally be lower.

Well I am currently 164 lbs at 16 % body fat, i'd really like to get that down to 10% without loosing any muscle I have. To keep in my range I was actually walking.

whatever. high intensity cardio wont "burn up your muscle"
it will, however, use your glycogen stores instead of fat while doing it, but for the rest of the day you'll use your fat stores instead of glycogen (instead of the other way around)

read this article by layne norton and decide which route you want to go. (high intensity vs low intensity)

http://www.physiquescience.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28&Itemid=28

Wow... That article basically destroyed a ton of stuff I read on these forums... lol. Are you sure it's right?

I've done both and lost weight on both. Doing LISS I keep more muscle and lose more fat... just one person's experience.

I've done both and lost weight on both. Doing LISS I keep more muscle and lose more fat... just one person's experience.
unfortunatly, as someone who LOVES long-distance running/biking (basically long distance LISS) i've lost a great deal of muscle along with my fat. but i blame this mostly on excess cortisol from not eating properly before/after cardio. (you need to treat cardio like a weighttraining session, liss or hit, and eat accordingly)

so if i could do it all over again, i would go the HIIT route.

Wow... That article basically destroyed a ton of stuff I read on these forums... lol. Are you sure it's right?

and yes, the article is correct.
well, at least layne's body is correct. one of the most correct bodies i've ever seen!

when you're reading these forums, you have to understand that different people from different backgrounds give different advice.
it gets very confusing, and you dont know who to trust.

so recently i've kinda said "screw it" and started to read articles written by bodybuilders. i figure they know their stuff. (even though the cardio debate is still there amoung bodybuilders too - because they both work)

think of it this way... do you want your end body to look like a long distance marathon runner? or an olympic sprinter?
which one do YOU think loses the most muscle?

http://www.bloomfield.edu/news/archive-2004/images/Tergat8.jpghttp://www.nccu.edu/campus/athletics/jstfpr03.jpg

Thank you all for taking the time to reply, your information was very useful.

Also depends on what state your conditioning is now. I have to REALLY crank to get up to 75%+ whereas my out of shape husband can walk around the block slowly and be up at 70-80%. :)

Who... awesome posts. Very informative stuff bro. I've kinda wondered this myself in the past.

think of it this way... do you want your end body to look like a long distance marathon runner? or an olympic sprinter?
which one do YOU think loses the most muscle?


Not a fair comparison being there is no mention of what dietary protocols these people are on. (marathon vs. sprinter) As well, running for 45 mins. (marathon style) wouldn't be a good idea, no, as you'd burn muscle as it's too intense of an activity to use stored fat for fuel, and the body prefers glycogen/lean muscle. However, if you stay in the 65-75% MHR range with a fast walk/arms pumping/slight incline/etc., which uses fatty acids (fat) for fuel (this is proven science) and your diet supported fat loss/lean mass preservation efforts, it's a very effective form of cardio.

Hell, just ask all those on my programs like John, Hort, #91, etc etc...... :cool:

I don't like to debate cardio as each has a purpose, yes, but to compare a marathon runner to a sprinter as an "end all" to what one's results would be, is a very slippery slope presentation.

~SC~

that was also something else i was going to add - swolecat recommends doing LISS, which throws off all reasoning for HIIT. he is the GOD of nutrition IMO, yet something in layne's reason still sticks in my head...

"Cardiovascular exercise while in a fasted state is a great way to increase cortisol release."

that's what worries me... i'm not a fan of the cortisol.
does this only start happening after doing it too long?
arent cortisol levels high when waking up anyway?

Whoareme... I've read everything under the sun it seems about this and all I can tell you is what works for me.

I was fast becoming a big fan of proper nutrient timing long before I met up with Swolecat. Today was about my 20th or so straight day of 45-50 minutes LISS fasted AM cardio. I can't point to it as the single culprit of my recent success as my diet and lifting patterns also changed.

Yet the last three weeks have been the most effective cut I have ever been on. My thighs are up in size as are my upper arms (noticeably my tris) and my chest. Not much but they've grown. My bodyfat is probably down 3% and I've lost a full pant-size.

This isn't meant to be an advert for SC but it just backs up what I've always preached: Listen to your body, give it what it needs and you will be rewarded. FOr some HIIT might be better than LISS but either way, you will get best results by pairing your exercise with the optimal diet.

I have worked out that the pace I feel most comfortable doing cardio (jogging on treadmill) is about 85% (164 bpm) of my Max HR (220 -27 = 193).

I think I may be able to stay around 75% if I change to the exercise bike, or maybe try the elliptical, however I do prefer hitting the treadmill for my 45 mins.

Am I seriously sacrificing muscle tissue if I continue at 85% for that length of time?

This isn't meant to be an advert for SC

Hey, it's all good bro, I'm a sponsor here so talk it up!!

:lol: :lol:

~SC~

i dont have the experience or knowledge the people posting above me have but heres what i'll say as far as cardio goes coming from my experience - for my first month on my own i busted my ass doing daily cardio - wasn't fasted, not sure about the heart rate but i know it was much higher then what i do now on SC's SGX program, anyway there were many times where i would just stop and eventually i stopped doing it daily and then stopped doing it with much consistency!

its been close to 3 weeks since i started SGX and not once have i not felt like doing the cardio required at the recommended hr! not once! the point is, over the long run, this is obviously much better

now additionally, since on SGX, i have made clear muscle gains while leaning out (determined by simply looking in the mirror, or just weighing myself and taking measurements) proving to me anyway that this way is much more effective as far as losing fat and keeping muscle goes!

while i don't believe i lost muscle when i first started and went all out, i do think i felt the effects of over training because i did it at such a high intensity for such a long time and not once have i ever felt as if i made gains.. and here i am 3 weeks into this amazing program and feeling like i have made the most progress both fat loss wise and muscle wise that i have in the 5-6 months ive been cutting.. and this is supposed to be the part where i am supposed to have the most trouble losing fat :p

I am with you #91.

Tomorrow I finishing week 7 on SGX and I think that the cardio percentages that SC has prescribed are working great. Lately, though, I don't start sweating in the first 10 minutes like I used to. Now it takes me about 20 minutes to start breaking a sweat. But those last 15 minutes.....Niagara Falls from the forehead. I usually walk between 3.8 - 4.2 mph and 5.5-8.0 incline depending on the song playing on my mp3 player.

George