Okay! So I've done some reading from numerous websites on:

*Slow vs. Fast Cardio
*HIIT

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but from my understanding HIIT is the best of both worlds because:

1) You get the heart/endurance/stamina-conditioning benefits of training near the max-heart-rate zone.

2) You get get to utilize your fat-stores during the slow intervals of your HIIT session.

3) The total calories burned given a fixed amount of time is greater in a HIIT session than in a slow-cardio session. Although the high-intensity intervals have a smaller carb-to-fat-usage ratio, the greater amt of total calories burned from the entire HIIT session results in a greater amount of fat burned (after doing the math).

4) After performing HIIT, your metabolism is on a high throughout the day====> More fat burnage!



However, I've also read that ripped and huge bodybuilders avoid sustained high-intensity cardio since it allegedly results in substantial muscle loss..........

But, HIIT includes intervals of high-intensity cardio........... :d_eek:


Okay, here comes my big question:


Given that you are Eating Enough/Doing Weight Training/Doing HIIT Cardio.............

When does your body decide to go into catabolism, and how can you minimize it?

:confused:

By eating the proper foods right afterwards.

First...good job on doing your homework! I always appreciate it when someone educates themselves first, and asks questions second.

Preserving muscle mass while reducing body fat is indeed a challenge. One thing that has worked well for me is perfecting my pre, during and post workout nutrition. Roughly an hour and a half before my training I eat a meal of protein and complex carbs (i.e. a tuna sandwich on whole wheat bread). During my workout I consume a shake consisting of a high GI carb (dextrose) and whey protein isolate. For post workout, I consume another meal of whey protein and complex carbs (I'm not currently on the post-workout insulin spike bandwagon).

I think this approach has helped me to maintain my glycogen stores during exercise to fight off catabolism. I used this method during my most recent cut, and had great results in reducing body fat while maintaining muscle mass.

When? well mostly after the release of GH (Growth Hormone) has shut down for the night.

This is why it's so critical to have a slow releasing protein and fat meal b4 bed....to feed and repair muscle tissue during that critical 4 hours of growth hormone release.

Rest and recovery is what builds you up....exercise and hard workouts is what tears you down.

After GH shuts down or subsides the body does the opposite (since you are sleeping and not eating, essentially, you're fasting).
Cortisol becomes the enemy....this stress induced hormone is what breaks down muscle tissue. When you wake up from this all - night fast cortisol is at your highest point but it can be high as well if you are under constant stress (job, life, etc...) or the stress of a hard workout where muscle fibers have been broken down

(So it's important to vary resistance, angle of exercise and approach constantly, to ensure that all muscle fibers are fired in a given exercise and none of them get so used to an exercise that they can lay back and go on autopilot while you are working out).

This is also why once you hit your target number of reps for an exercise, it's good practise to try to bang out one more and be sure you've blasted all the necessary fibers....if you can get in one more rep....time to up that weight and introduce a new level of stress.

This is also why that post workout shake has a proper balance of proteins and carbs (the insulin spike thing is a totally personal thing....I split the difference and have a mix of high GI carbs (gatorade + banana) and moderate gi complex carbs (quick oats or oat flour) in my post workout shake along with my whey).

So you want to minimize cortisol release by having AT MINIMUM some protein before a workout or HIIT workout, but, for many (myself now in that camp) when performing a HIIT cardio session, at least a little carbs is beneficial.

Many will swear by HIIT on empty...It's a personal thing. If you find it works for you then have at 'er. It's impossible to how much if any muscle is lost during a 20-30 min HIIT routine, I'd likely say little provided you follow-up with the equivalent of a post-workout shake and treat HIIT like a lifting session....

For me, I go for more all out cardio.....as hard and fast as I can go for 20 mins and then I stop (near death and short on breath....think lungs burning). To get that done I have a small carb + protein meal before, smaller than say a weight-training meal which will be higher in complex carbs + a little fat + protein about 45 min before my workout (which tend to go about 60-75 mins).

The myth of no carbs at night (especially in a caloric defict) is starting to prove a myth as it's been shown that a small carb meal (provided you're in deficit) is beneficial in preserving muscle mass and blunting cortisol release. Many will disagree though.

Myself, I still love my cottage cheese + 1 TB of almond butter + 2 tsp of cocoa + a dash of cinnamon at night.....can't get enough of the stuff and it hasn't added any fat to the system at all. YMMV though.

Whoa, that's a ton of useful information that'll take me several re-reads and additional research just to understand....especially that bit on catabolism during your rest/recovery period.

Lemme see if I get this straight.....

Your body releases cortisol in order break down your hard-earned muscles as a source of energy when:

the glycogen stores in your muscles (the one's you're using or just every single muscle in ur body???? :confused: ) have been fully depleted. from what i'm reading from the replies, it seems that there's a prioritized list of energy sources your body happens to "know" about while engaging in HIGH-intensity exercise (lifting or fast-cardio)......likewise, there's a separate "list" while ur body engages in low-intensity excercise i.e. the slow-intervals of a HIIT session. am i understanding correctly?

Prioritized list of energy sources while body is in "high-intensity mode"

I) glycogen.....from the carbs you have ate and digested
II) protein.....also from what we ate
III) your precious muscles

and since HIIT cardio has high-intensity intervals, we want to ensure we have ample glycogen and additional protein just to preclude the onset of muscle catabolism or in other words, minimize cortisol release (yes?)


please feel free to rip me apart on my little summary there....i need to understand why i'm doing HIIT and why it's actually working

:tu:

Muscle tissue is the most "metabolically costly" for the body to to maintain so it would rather chew that up first before any other tissue. So if you go into starvation mode....our bodies are ultra efficient at storing fat so it stores fat (converting what little food it can) and chews muscle for energy instead. In stavation your organs are priority one and everything else is expendable in one order or another. Muscle will be one of the first things to go.... your internal organs would likely be one of the last.

If we eat too little cal but exercise like hell, your body starts burning up muscle IF additional protein is not available and cortisol cannot be blunted.

When cortisol is secreted....protein breakdown occurs and amino acids are released in the blood. The liver will synthesis glucose via glucogenesis. Blood sugar goes up so that the brain can utilize the glucose but at the same time your other tissues will not be calling on as much glucose. Cortisol will also release fatty-acids to be used by muscle tissue as an energy source. It's a very complex system.

Cortisol is impossible to shunt completely...through exercise and diet you try to manipulate that system.

I don't believe in cardio for weight loss BUT... if you decide upon it, HIIT or LISS (better for ecto/meso's) do so on an empty stomach, invest in a good bcaa/glutamine formula (I have my preferances) and take an ample doseage before, during, and after. Throw in some ALCAR or L-CAR in there and you are good to go.

thank you guys!! :nod:

Yea me either....cardio = fat loss. Good controlled diet and moderate exercise = weight loss. IMO.

Why do you feel LISS is better for ecto / meso and HIIT for endos (I assume)?

Just curious.

I don't believe in cardio for weight loss BUT... if you decide upon it, HIIT or LISS (better for ecto/meso's) do so on an empty stomach, invest in a good bcaa/glutamine formula (I have my preferances) and take an ample doseage before, during, and after. Throw in some ALCAR or L-CAR in there and you are good to go.

Some good points and an interesting conversation here. But in my opinion I think people exaggerate how much muscle you lose on cardio.A few examples:

Bill Phillips in his body for life program (NOT the bible but a good beginners book) suggests HIIT cardio AND weight training on an empty stomach first thing in the morning. Look at the results he has had on himself and many others. I do my HIIT cardio first thing in the morning after a couple of glasses of water and have 500ml milk straight after. I eat 2000kcal a day.

Swolecat on his SGX cutting program suggests cardio 7 times a week (not sure if its LISS, HIIT because I'm not a subscriber) and many have actually experienced some muscle growth on this program!

My friend has been doing Muay Thai for 3 months now. He has lost a lot of fat and gained muscle. No weights, only cardio and punching and kicking!

Too much cardio is simply compared to what you eat. If you only eat 1600kcal a day, then 1hr jog is definitely too long! If you eat 2500kcal a day however, I really doubt that the 1hr jog will reduce muscle tissue.

Yea me either....cardio = fat loss. Good controlled diet and moderate exercise = weight loss. IMO.

Why do you feel LISS is better for ecto / meso and HIIT for endos (I assume)?

Just curious.

HIIT cardio will keep your metabolism racing throughout the day, assuming you are doing it in the morning in a fasted state, or even multiple times during the day. Perfect environment for endo/meso's who are more stubborn and sluggish in relinquishing bodyfat. Ecto's on the other hand, have racing metabolisms. The last thing they need is to enhance this metabolic rate 24/7, with HIIT.

okay, gotchya. :)

i eat an egg white omelet before i do weights or HIIT (25min worth), should i just cut out the meal or does it matter?? i like having that protein in me