I remember a time when the idea of too much fruit was laughable. But not with the low carb diets it is a ligit quesiton.

I am looking to make a some minor tweaks to my diet and carbs are an issue IMO.

Here goes:

MEAL 1: one of... (All with whole-wheat toast & 1 tbsp Natty PB)
A. 1 cup kashi go lean crunch w/ 125ml soy drink
B. 1 cup Organic Optimum Power Cereal w/ 125ml soy drink
C. Omelet (5 whites, 1 full egg, w/veggies) & Juice
D. 1pkg of Quaker Instant Flavored Oatmeal + ½ cup of regular Oatmeal

MEAL 2, 4, 6: Protein shake (1 scoop of whey protein w/ 200ml of soy milk), & Fruit

MEAL 3 & 5: one of...
A. 85g Albacore White Tuna fish on Whole-wheat w/veggies, mustard, & 1 tbsp low fat mayo
B. 125g Canned Chicken Breast on Whole-wheat w/veggies, mustard, & 1 tbsp low fat mayo
C. Large salad w/ 150g Chicken Breast, two boiled egg whites (w/ Honey Mustard dressing)
D. 200g salmon w/ 1cup veggies, 1cup cooked brown rice
E. 150g Chicken Breast w/ 1cup veggies, 1cup cooked brown rice
F. 170g shrimp w/ 1cup veggies, 1cup cooked brown rice
G. 150g of Cod w/ 1cup veggies, 1cup cooked brown rice
H. 150g Beef Tenderloin w/ 1cup veggies, 1cup cooked brown rice
I. 100g Pork Tenderloin w/ 1cup veggies, 1cup cooked brown rice
J. 2 slices lean ham on Whole-wheat w/veggies, & mustard

The fruit is usually an medium sized apple OR 2 manderian oranges (very small), OR two regular size kiwis OR 1 1/2c of watermelon or melon, OR a regular sized banana.

I am looking to make that final push to have my abs really popping out. As you can see from my pics they are visable but only in the right lighting. Or maybe I am too critical of myself.

...Or maybe I am too critical of myself.

Enjoy some fruit - you should be proud... :tu:

G

Of course there is! But the fact is, in our modern lifestyle, rather than having too much fruits, most people lack of them. Fruit is still a source of calories and carb, but it also contains a lot of vitamins and mineral that our body needs. As long as you don't go overboard and eat within your calorie budget, you'll be fine. Moderation is the key. :tu:

This is generally speaking, but I believe there is such a thing as too much ANYTHING. I am not sure that you look to be doing too much fruit though from what you've posted here. Fruit has many benefits to your overall health and CAN be utilized in a strict diet IMO. If you enjoy your fruit and want to continue eating it, but want to try and be strict, then why not set certain times to eat the fruit? Try eating it during your first meal of the day, with some egg whites and maybe a low-carb protein shake (just protein/water). Then have some more pre-workout and/or post-workout.

I myself eat at least one banana every single day, sometimes two.

Fructose, the sugar in fruits has no purpose other than liver sugar storage. excess of it WILL be detrimental.

For optimial results, cut all fruit. Replace the cals with P plus flax/healthy carbs.

this topic has been discussed sooooo many times, did u try a search?

I remember a time when the idea of too much fruit was laughable. But not with the low carb diets it is a ligit quesiton.


I am looking to make that final push to have my abs really popping out. As you can see from my pics they are visable but only in the right lighting. Or maybe I am too critical of myself.




I think you are doing great. I say don’t be a fruit-a-phoebe; two pieces a day is nothing. Fruit has fiber and important antioxidants. I would rather eat one or two pieces a day and adjust my carb intake downward that to be lying in a hospital 20 years from now, with a tube up my butt with colon cancer.

Fructose has a purpose-energy. If you workout, you need carbs in your diet. Carbohydrates from different sources are an important part of the diet, since your body needs energy to grow, to work, and to repair itself. A big misconception is that the fructose will turn to fat. No, it is the excess of sugar in the blood, from ANY carb or starch source, that turns to fat. Extra glucose is converted into glycogen, which is stored in muscles and the liver. If the body is already storing enough glycogen, glucose gets changed into fat.

Actually, fructose is a better energy source than straight glucose (except PWO) and sucrose, since it is absorbed more slowly into the bloodstream and, therefore, has a less erratic effect on blood sugar levels, i.e., it does not cause a significant insulin spike. It is the insulin spike that is most damaging, because, again, what is not used immediately by the body is stored as fat.

Fruit is great pre-workout or post workout with a meal, after your PWO drink. So eat up and don’t worry about one or two pieces a day.
.

Fructose, the sugar in fruits has no purpose other than liver sugar storage. excess of it WILL be detrimental.

For optimial results, cut all fruit. Replace the cals with P plus flax/healthy carbs.

this topic has been discussed sooooo many times, did u try a search?

The key word is excess. I usually have 3 pieces of fruit daily. Mostly bananas and apples. I've been doing so for 7 months while cutting. This hasn't effected me negatively at all.
Please define HEALTHY carbs. What's healthier than fruit?

The key word is excess.
I usually have 3 pieces of fruit daily. Mostly bananas and apples. I've been doing so for 7 months while cutting. This hasn't effected me negatively at all.
Please define HEALTHY carbs. What's healthier than fruit?

First of all, the key word is optimal. We all want to be ripped and shredded as quickly as possible, correct? Therefore, cut all fruit to get to the finish line quicker.

Secondly, studies have shown fructose maxes out filling ur liver at 50g. anymore, and it WILL be stored as triglycerides, no if ands or buts. keep in mind on a 40/40/20, most of our livers are not totally empty at any given time.

Your comment "this hasnt effected me negatively" is absurd. dont get me wrong, but have u done many cutting cycles and compared each one? If not, you have nothing to compare it to. You have been losing fat b/c u lift hard and eat great, but u could do even better if u cut out fruit.

Whats healthier than fruit? What do u mean??? What are ur goals?

Fruits dont supply energy. maybe the taste, the quick boost of sugar, etc get u in the right mind set. I bet i could train someone to get 'in the mood' off of a damn carrot if i had the time:)

Bottom line, if eating 1-2 pieces keeps u sane, makes u happy, and helps u control super bad cravings... GO FOR IT:)

Fructose has a purpose-energy. If you workout, you need carbs in your diet. Carbohydrates from different sources are an important part of the diet, since your body needs energy to grow, to work, and to repair itself. A big misconception is that the fructose will turn to fat. No, it is the excess of sugar in the blood, from ANY carb or starch source, that turns to fat. Extra glucose is converted into glycogen, which is stored in muscles and the liver. If the body is already storing enough glycogen, glucose gets changed into fat.



The problem is that no one knows thier max blood sugar level that is allowable before u start gaining fat.

we eat carbs to replenish muscle storage. fruit DOES NOT do this. therefore it goes to the liver immediatly. in the liver, if excess glucose is already there, it will be made to fatty acids.

Therefore, eat other carbs... since they have a better chance to refill muscle gly. before being turned to fat

First of all, the key word is optimal. We all want to be ripped and shredded as quickly as possible, correct? Therefore, cut all fruit to get to the finish line quicker.

Secondly, studies have shown fructose maxes out filling ur liver at 50g. anymore, and it WILL be stored as triglycerides, no if ands or buts. keep in mind on a 40/40/20, most of our livers are not totally empty at any given time.

Your comment "this hasnt effected me negatively" is absurd. dont get me wrong, but have u done many cutting cycles and compared each one? If not, you have nothing to compare it to. You have been losing fat b/c u lift hard and eat great, but u could do even better if u cut out fruit.

Whats healthier than fruit? What do u mean??? What are ur goals?

Fruits dont supply energy. maybe the taste, the quick boost of sugar, etc get u in the right mind set. I bet i could train someone to get 'in the mood' off of a damn carrot if i had the time:)

Bottom line, if eating 1-2 pieces keeps u sane, makes u happy, and helps u control super bad cravings... GO FOR IT:)

Just more scientific mumbo jumbo to me. Bottom line - I eat fruit. I've lost 53 lbs ( mostly if not all fat) in 7 months. Could I have lost it faster? Don't know - don't really care. In my eyes, my cut (which happens to be my first) has been very successful. As for "getting in the mood", I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. I do know that eating an apple before training helps carry me through the workout. Whether it be mental or physical, again I don't really care.
All I can say is I like fruit and I will continue to eat it regadless.

Wow, you are so wrong. Why throw out an entire extremely healthy food source because you misunderstand metabolic processes? The amount of sugars in fruit is so low already, and if your diet is already in check, eating quite a bit of fruit will not affect your triglyceride levels.

If you are so worried about triglycerides, reduce your intake of red meat, sugars, junk food, and alcohol. To tell us that fruit is unhealthy is just showing your ignorance.

Many people reach sub-5% bodyfat eating fruit.

To the original poster: if I were you, I would start reducing the complex carbs and grains from your diet. Replace with more fruits and vegetables. And I think that's too much soy. Besides the issues of soy itself, soy is usually filled with extra sweeteners. Have more protein/fat meals with a side of vegetables.

My verdict: cut the grains, keep the fruit.




The problem is that no one knows thier max blood sugar level that is allowable before u start gaining fat.

we eat carbs to replenish muscle storage. fruit DOES NOT do this. therefore it goes to the liver immediatly. in the liver, if excess glucose is already there, it will be made to fatty acids.

Therefore, eat other carbs... since they have a better chance to refill muscle gly. before being turned to fat

Wow, you are so wrong. Why throw out an entire extremely healthy food source because you misunderstand metabolic processes? The amount of sugars in fruit is so low already, and if your diet is already in check, eating quite a bit of fruit will not affect your triglyceride levels.

If you are so worried about triglycerides, reduce your intake of red meat, sugars, junk food, and alcohol. To tell us that fruit is unhealthy is just showing your ignorance.

Many people reach sub-5% bodyfat eating fruit.



My verdict: cut the grains, keep the fruit.

Thankyou Tennisball,
As ususal, a little knowledgeable clarification. I don't know but everything i've EVER read indicated fruit is GOOD! I'm currently at max. 6 -7 % BF, perhaps lower. As I said, I eat fruit at least 3X daily!!!!!

The problem is that no one knows thier max blood sugar level that is allowable before u start gaining fat.

we eat carbs to replenish muscle storage. fruit DOES NOT do this. therefore it goes to the liver immediatly. in the liver, if excess glucose is already there, it will be made to fatty acids.

Therefore, eat other carbs... since they have a better chance to refill muscle gly. before being turned to fat





Point of clarification: You are wrong in saying (per your previous post) that fructose is not an energy source just because it goes through, or stored, in the liver. Fructose is a carb and carbs are our primary source of energy; therefore, fructose is an energy source. Glucose, fructose, lactose, sucrose and maltose are all carbs and are all energy sources.

ALL sources of carbs are converted to glycogen and stored in the liver and muscles for energy. This glycogen is then used to meet muscles' energy needs by being converted back to glucose when the muscles are depleted. Therefore, you are wrong in saying fructose does not replenish glycogen, or as you put it, ”replenish muscle storage.” It just goes about it by going through the liver, that’s all. It still can and does replenish glycogen from the liver; it just does so more slowly than sucrose-based carbs. In some ways, that can be a benefit, like when it is eaten pre-workout: it can sustain you with enough glycogen until you get to your PWO drink.

We store very little glucose in the body. If you are concerned with not knowing the “max blood sugar level that is allowable before u start gaining fat" as you put it, then you have to be concerned about all carbs taken in, not just fructose. It is the total glycogen load that is the problem, not the fructose from one piece of fruit. Anyone working out needs carbs in their diet. If 40% carbs is optimal for them, then fruit can most certainly can be included as part of that 40%, even while cutting. They just have to plan for it in their diet

What I am saying is it is the excess of glycogen and not fructose that is bad. What is optimal then, is not whether someone eliminates fruit. What optimal is taking in the right amount of carbs. The most the glycogen the human body can store in the muscles and liver is 350 grams; most people store less. Any excess of what someone takes in over what can be stored/utilized is converted to fat. That is true of fructose, sucrose, oatmeal or Gatorade. So if someone is concerned about gaining fat from glycogen, than they should watch their total carb intake.

Point of clarification: You are wrong in saying (per your previous post) that fructose is not an energy source just because it goes through, or stored, in the liver. Fructose is a carb and carbs are our primary source of energy; therefore, fructose is an energy source. Glucose, fructose, lactose, sucrose and maltose are all carbs and are all energy sources.

ALL sources of carbs are converted to glycogen and stored in the liver and muscles for energy. This glycogen is then used to meet muscles' energy needs by being converted back to glucose when the muscles are depleted. Therefore, you are wrong in saying fructose does not replenish glycogen, or as you put it, ”replenish muscle storage.” It just goes about it by going through the liver, that’s all. It still can and does replenish glycogen from the liver; it just does so more slowly than sucrose-based carbs. In some ways, that can be a benefit, like when it is eaten pre-workout: it can sustain you with enough glycogen until you get to your PWO drink.

We store very little glucose in the body. If you are concerned with not knowing the “max blood sugar level that is allowable before u start gaining fat" as you put it, then you have to be concerned about all carbs taken in, not just fructose. It is the total glycogen load that is the problem, not the fructose from one piece of fruit. Anyone working out needs carbs in their diet. If 40% carbs is optimal for them, then fruit can most certainly can be included as part of that 40%, even while cutting. They just have to plan for it in their diet

What I am saying is it is the excess of glycogen and not fructose that is bad. What is optimal then, is not whether someone eliminates fruit. What optimal is taking in the right amount of carbs. The most the glycogen the human body can store in the muscles and liver is 350 grams; most people store less. Any excess of what someone takes in over what can be stored/utilized is converted to fat. That is true of fructose, sucrose, oatmeal or Gatorade. So if someone is concerned about gaining fat from glycogen, than they should watch their total carb intake.

And Thankyou Swole.

[QUOTE=tennisball]Wow, you are so wrong. Why throw out an entire extremely healthy food source because you misunderstand metabolic processes? The amount of sugars in fruit is so low already, and if your diet is already in check, eating quite a bit of fruit will not affect your triglyceride levels.

If you are so worried about triglycerides, reduce your intake of red meat, sugars, junk food, and alcohol. To tell us that fruit is unhealthy is just showing your ignorance.

Many people reach sub-5% bodyfat eating fruit.





Agree 100%.

I think fruit takes the rap for other excesses in the diet.

Personally, I would rather include fruit in my diet and cut out something else.

And Thankyou Swole.





Hey, yo lookin' mighty buff, there, dude.

I can't believe anyone would take out fruit of their diet. That would make me want to go insane, bland!

Hey, yo lookin' mighty buff, there, dude.


Thanx Swole!!!!!

I usually eat a banana after workouts and lots of complex carbs (as well as complex carbs in the morning). But as the day goes on aren't complex carbs not as good to eat?? what do you guys suggest to keep the carbs going into the system throughout the day if eating more than 3 pieces a day is too much ?

Just more scientific mumbo jumbo to me. Bottom line - I eat fruit. I've lost 53 lbs ( mostly if not all fat) in 7 months. Could I have lost it faster? Don't know - don't really care. In my eyes, my cut (which happens to be my first) has been very successful. As for "getting in the mood", I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. I do know that eating an apple before training helps carry me through the workout. Whether it be mental or physical, again I don't really care.
All I can say is I like fruit and I will continue to eat it regadless.

Now that was funny lol

I have a question about fruit. I usually eat a large orange or banana before a workout, how long would most of you guys wait for it to digest? I usually wait 15 to 20min?

Now that was funny lol

I have a question about fruit. I usually eat a large orange or banana before a workout, how long would most of you guys wait for it to digest? I usually wait 15 to 20min?


That's about it. 20-30 min.

Hey, yo lookin' mighty buff, there, dude.

Agreed. Nice work! You are right about where I invisioned when posting this question.

Just more scientific mumbo jumbo to me. Bottom line - I eat fruit. I've lost 53 lbs ( mostly if not all fat) in 7 months. Could I have lost it faster? Don't know - don't really care. In my eyes, my cut (which happens to be my first) has been very successful. As for "getting in the mood", I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. I do know that eating an apple before training helps carry me through the workout. Whether it be mental or physical, again I don't really care.
All I can say is I like fruit and I will continue to eat it regadless.

Scientific mumbo jumbo? Yeah, sry about that :rolleyes:

Could u have lost faster? Probably... whether u care or not is ur problem

"Getting in the mood"... did u think i was referring to sex?!?! U answered the question in ur next line. To know what the hell i am talking about, read the part where u said "I do know that eating an apple before training helps carry me through the workout"


If u enjoy fruit.. EAT IT IF IT HELPS!! did u not read my post?

Wow, you are so wrong. Why throw out an entire extremely healthy food source because you misunderstand metabolic processes? The amount of sugars in fruit is so low already, and if your diet is already in check, eating quite a bit of fruit will not affect your triglyceride levels.

If you are so worried about triglycerides, reduce your intake of red meat, sugars, junk food, and alcohol. To tell us that fruit is unhealthy is just showing your ignorance.

Many people reach sub-5% bodyfat eating fruit.

To the original poster: if I were you, I would start reducing the complex carbs and grains from your diet. Replace with more fruits and vegetables. And I think that's too much soy. Besides the issues of soy itself, soy is usually filled with extra sweeteners. Have more protein/fat meals with a side of vegetables.

My verdict: cut the grains, keep the fruit.

Explain to me what part of metabolism i dont understand.... :rolleyes: becuse ur post really changed my views.

Fact: A large apple contains anywhere from 10-15g of fructose (sugar). Eating a couple will max out liver storages, provdided u had nothing in it to begin with. (Varies with bw/bf/age/genetics)

Many people reach 5% bf with fruit.... BULLSHITTTT. Sure... many 130lb ppl that barely eat anyway can get there. I can think of maybe one person (Jeremey) who did so. I dont even think John had fruit when he was cutting. SwoleCat (I think) does not even rec. fruits in cutting

SHOW ME ONE pro bodybuilder (i.e ppl who have completed many cutting cycles) that eats 'lots' of fruits. Many ppl on bb.com, elitefitness.com, and a general search can get u thier diet regimes.

Thankyou Tennisball,
As ususal, a little knowledgeable clarification. I don't know but everything i've EVER read indicated fruit is GOOD! I'm currently at max. 6 -7 % BF, perhaps lower. As I said, I eat fruit at least 3X daily!!!!!

Wow, i guess only Tennisball is knowledgeable... or is that b/c he agrees with u?

out of EVERY single study that u have read that has shown fruit is GOOD... i agree with you. fruit is good. The problem is, no one, and i mean no one, knows to what extent. many of the so called 'effect's have so many god damn variables, its impossible to clearly link x to y. While some are easy, i.e, a banana helps b/c of potassium, a vitamin will give u the same effect....
As u said.... eat fruit 3x daily.... since u had 5!!!!!,, im gonna agree on this :tu:

Fructose has a purpose-energy. If you workout, you need carbs in your diet. Carbohydrates from different sources are an important part of the diet, since your body needs energy to grow, to work, and to repair itself. A big misconception is that the fructose will turn to fat. No, it is the excess of sugar in the blood, from ANY carb or starch source, that turns to fat. Extra glucose is converted into glycogen, which is stored in muscles and the liver. If the body is already storing enough glycogen, glucose gets changed into fat.

Fruit is great pre-workout or post workout with a meal, after your PWO drink. So eat up and don’t worry about one or two pieces a day.
.

I am not debating whether or not u need carbs... i am debating the choice.

What i am saying is that IF ur liver is near max capacity, there would be LESS LIKELY for low GI carbs rather than fructose to be stored as fat.

Fruit is absolutly POINTLESS PWO. this topic has been beaten to death on so many boards i dont even know why its been said again.

The key word is excess. I usually have 3 pieces of fruit daily. Mostly bananas and apples. I've been doing so for 7 months while cutting. This hasn't effected me negatively at all.
Please define HEALTHY carbs. What's healthier than fruit?



Excess is relative. 3 pieces are about 300 cals. 300 cals out of ur diet is what..... 15% (total guess)?? U dont call that excess...

HEALTHY.... wtf, i thought all along i siad low Gi carbs or dextrose/malto PWO....

What is healthier than fruit????? Show me one damn study that clearly links x to y. read my above post why i dislike 'studies' on fruit

GREAT progress, absolutely insane change!!!!

how did u learn to make a website like that?? any books i can follow to do the same??

to stop more of this stupid animosity.... the whole point of this post was to say is "there such a thing as too much fruit"

Just like all things, the answer is YES

the fuzzy area is how much is the limit

I (and many competitve bb'ers, bb nutritional experts) say that no fruit is the best if u want to get ripped as quickly as possible.

You (doordude) have a great physique (is that u in ur ava?) I have one like urs (5 ft 9, 180, 9%bf) except im 20.

Im happy with my look and ur happy with urs... i simply said that i spent less time cutting b/c of what i did.... and i didnt miss fruit... although i have always been preferntial to salads/veggies.

GREAT progress, absolutely insane change!!!!

how did u learn to make a website like that?? any books i can follow to do the same??

Thanks!

One change I am gonna make is take the fruit out of meal 6 because it is the last on of the day and usually around 8 or 9 in the evening. That would leave me eating fruit at about 9:30AM after my Master Swim Club Training Session & at about 3:30PM about an before I get to the gym. I am not a pro so I am not gonna be TOO PICKEY......yet. ;)

As for the website. I have no idea how to do it. It is made my mac.com. All you do is select the format from a bunch of examples and add your own pics and text.

Many people reach 5% bf with fruit.... BULLSHITTTT. Sure... many 130lb ppl that barely eat anyway can get there. I can think of maybe one person (Jeremey) who did so. I dont even think John had fruit when he was cutting. SwoleCat (I think) does not even rec. fruits in cutting


Bullshit? I'd be willing to bet i'm at 5% (or real close to it) right now. I eat at least 6 X a day consuming 2500 calories. Again, that includes 3 pieces of fruit daily.
So make that 2 people!!!!!

dude you got passion i'll give you that :) I eat 2 to 3 pieces of fruit myself and it won't be changing either. I really can't see most people here eating the same things over and over for the rest of there lives to get there bf% in such low numbers. In my opinion its a phase for most people. Mind you a really good phase. I'm quite content with a low double digit bf.

By eating the samethings; most diets i've seen posted by the more dispcline people they eat the exact samethings most everyday. It would never fly with my brain. I want to work for my body but not be a mindless slave to it and get sick eating food. Food is one of the best things in life.

Like my sig states %12bf would be great to me. Image in my brain right now. "Geez man how can you eat that (restaurant) and be in such good shape?" Of course it won't be that often.

dude you got passion i'll give you that :) I eat 2 to 3 pieces of fruit myself and it won't be changing either. I really can't see most people here eating the same things over and over for the rest of there lives to get there bf% in such low numbers. In my opinion its a phase for most people. Mind you a really good phase. I'm quite content with a low double digit bf.

By eating the samethings; most diets i've seen posted by the more dispcline people they eat the exact samethings most everyday. It would never fly with my brain. I want to work for my body but not be a mindless slave to it and get sick eating food. Food is one of the best things in life.

Like my sig states %12bf would be great to me. Image in my brain right now. "Geez man how can you eat that (restaurant) and be in such good shape?" Of course it won't be that often.

Canada,
You gotta do us a favor bro and let us know exactly who you're directing your response to. If you were directing it to me you're right.
I am passionate about this shit. Probably to the point of obsessive/compulsive. However, it beats some of the alternatives i've chosen in the past. I've adjusted quite well to my diet. Admittedly, I eat some foods over and over but I enjoy them. I can't tell you how much I look foward to my simple breakfast of egg whites and oatmeal. Never changes but I still enjoy it. I probably have 10 items I eat on a regular basis. I mix em' up. It's enough variety for me.

Oh by the way, I don't plan on continuing this lifestyle or diet for the rest of my life. Probably for just the next 30 years or so !

Explain to me what part of metabolism i dont understand.... :rolleyes: becuse ur post really changed my views.

Fact: A large apple contains anywhere from 10-15g of fructose (sugar). Eating a couple will max out liver storages, provdided u had nothing in it to begin with. (Varies with bw/bf/age/genetics)

Many people reach 5% bf with fruit.... BULLSHITTTT. Sure... many 130lb ppl that barely eat anyway can get there. I can think of maybe one person (Jeremey) who did so. I dont even think John had fruit when he was cutting. SwoleCat (I think) does not even rec. fruits in cutting

SHOW ME ONE pro bodybuilder (i.e ppl who have completed many cutting cycles) that eats 'lots' of fruits. Many ppl on bb.com, elitefitness.com, and a general search can get u thier diet regimes.




Swolecat has told me generally his pre-workout meal contains a banana and some protein.

There are plenty of people who eat fruit for their carbs because it contains plenty of nutrients, fiber, and generally has a lower gi value than say oatmeal. Everyone does things a little different, but I guarantee you for everyone one person that is anti-fruit, there is one that is pro-fruit, and I would be willing to bet they're both equally as muscular and cut.

</yourself>

Canada,
You gotta do us a favor bro and let us know exactly who you're directing your response to. If you were directing it to me you're right.
I am passionate about this shit. Probably to the point of obsessive/compulsive. However, it beats some of the alternatives i've chosen in the past. I've adjusted quite well to my diet. Admittedly, I eat some foods over and over but I enjoy them. I can't tell you how much I look foward to my simple breakfast of egg whites and oatmeal. Never changes but I still enjoy it. I probably have 10 items I eat on a regular basis. I mix em' up. It's enough variety for me.

Oh by the way, I don't plan on continuing this lifestyle or diet for the rest of my life. Probably for just the next 30 years or so !

Your the dude lol It was in response to you. But the most of the comments were general in nature.

Your the dude lol It was in response to you. But the most of the comments were general in nature.
:tu:

dude you got passion i'll give you that :) I eat 2 to 3 pieces of fruit myself and it won't be changing either. I really can't see most people here eating the same things over and over for the rest of there lives to get there bf% in such low numbers.


read up on professional bb dieting habits and then respond

Swolecat has told me generally his pre-workout meal contains a banana and some protein.

There are plenty of people who eat fruit for their carbs because it contains plenty of nutrients, fiber, and generally has a lower gi value than say oatmeal. Everyone does things a little different, but I guarantee you for everyone one person that is anti-fruit, there is one that is pro-fruit, and I would be willing to bet they're both equally as muscular and cut.

</yourself>

what in the world :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

i already responded to the pre workout consumption of fruits
i already responded to what fruit contains and what can be quantatively recorded, NOT qualitatively.

i dont know where u read fruit has a lower gi than oatmeal. that is just stupid

read up on professional bb dieting habits and then respond

Are you a professional bodybuilder ?

First of all, the key word is optimal. We all want to be ripped and shredded as quickly as possible, correct? Therefore, cut all fruit to get to the finish line quicker.

Incorrect. We all want to be ripped and shredded while maintaining a healthy lifestyle and eating the things we enjoy and supply us with the nutrients we need to stay healthy.

I must say, your replies in this thread have offered no positive insight. Simply yelling at others and saying you're right, especially with absolutely nothing to back you, is not the proper way to go about offering advice.

read up on professional bb dieting habits and then respond
Hey Specialbear,

I for one do eat fruit occassionally but not tons and tons. Just a banana each day (sometimes two). Once in a while I'll have some other fruits, but it's not all the time. I will agree with you, to a point, in that if I were really trying to be strict on a fat cutting phase that I might drop some of the fruit intake. It all depends though. I'm not currently in a state where I feel the need to be quite that strict (I'm not training for competition or anything), and fruits have so far not cause any noticable roadblocks for me. Again, though, I am probably not quite as strict as you might be.

I do think you are making a mistake by continuing to reference a professional bodybuilder's diet. Most of the people here are not going to follow the same routine Ron Coleman or Jay Cutler follow. It's just not really that type of forum here. Most of the people here are looking to lose fat, yes, but also to maintain a healthy overall lifestyle and an enjoyable one.

I'm a pretty big and in-shape dude, I'm pretty advanced, (not trying to be cocky, just being honest) but I'm not going to do what I see Cutler doing in "New, Improved, and Beyond." Dude is eating 1000 carbs per day, mixing the hell out of fat and carbs, eating lots of white rice and such, and of course using steroids. He is well over 300 pounds and still maintaining a 6-pack in the off season (although a blurry one I would assume); not many people here are at that stage! I'm not saying that these guys are not disciplined or someone we can all admire or respect by ANY means (I do like and follow the sport and admire the athletes personally), I just don't think it's wise to base a "normal guy's" routine off of what a pro bodybuilder does.

Besides, to be completely honest I have seen a few pro bodybuilders who recommend fruit. I would have to go do some research and searching, but I think Mustafa Mohammad eats bananas and kiwi a lot. :)

Anyway I'm not trying to argue. I agree with you to a degree, and agree with others to a degree too. It's an interesting discussion to say the least. I just hope we can all remain civil here. :D

i think all specialbear is saying is that YES - you CAN over-do it on fruit.
i agree with him on that, but he could have presented it much... nicer.

i think all specialbear is saying is that YES - you CAN over-do it on fruit.
Yeah, like I said you can overdo just about anything IMHO.

You can get a sip of water from the water fountain...or you can shove a hose down your throat and turn the spigot on full blast. Big difference! :p

Yeah, like I said you can overdo just about anything IMHO.

You can get a sip of water from the water fountain...or you can shove a hose down your throat and turn the spigot on full blast. Big difference! :p


Just for the record, in my first post in this thread I referred to "excess" at which time Specialbear implied Any fruit should be considered excess.

i think all specialbear is saying is that YES - you CAN over-do it on fruit.
i agree with him on that, but he could have presented it much... nicer.

I think he reverted to that once people challenged his original statement which was

Fructose, the sugar in fruits has no purpose other than liver sugar storage. excess of it WILL be detrimental.

For optimial results, cut all fruit. Replace the cals with P plus flax/healthy carbs.

While I do see where he attempted to suggest that too much fruit can be detrimental (true or not, I don't know), the underlined statement is what got me. Don't say CUT ALL FRUIT because now someone who isn't very experienced reads that and thinks fruit = bad. That is simply not the case, I don't care what your goals are. I do agree it should be somewhat limited when cutting, but there is certainly nothing wrong with a couple pieces per day.

Care to elaborate why fruit is at all detrimental? For the most part, fruit is generically a very low-GI carb with high amounts of fiber (insert pears for example). Similarly, bananas are a somewhat higher GI carb that are great around work outs.

How is that any worse than eating some oatmeal?

Care to elaborate why fruit is at all detrimental? For the most part, fruit is generically a very low-GI carb with high amounts of fiber (insert pears for example). Similarly, bananas are a somewhat higher GI carb that are great around work outs.

How is that any worse than eating some oatmeal?
he did elaborate.
he said excess fructose will spill over into fat stores after the liver glycogen is fully full.
the amount the liver can hold may differ with everyone.

but, i think if you spread your fruit out throughout the day, you would never have to worry about this.
but again, if you were to eat 20 apples within 10 minutes, or maybe even 5 - there would be some fat storage.

oatmeal is a different issue because it's used to refill muscle glycogen, whereas fructose cannot.

Care to elaborate why fruit is at all detrimental? For the most part, fruit is generically a very low-GI carb with high amounts of fiber (insert pears for example). Similarly, bananas are a somewhat higher GI carb that are great around work outs.

How is that any worse than eating some oatmeal?

It's not IMO. It's just that an excess of fruit means an excess of sugar, which isn't always the best idea when cutting. Otherwise, I don't see much of a problem with fruit. The liver thing may be true, but without any science backing, I am reluctant to believe it just from word of mouth.

what in the world :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



i dont know where u read fruit has a lower gi than oatmeal. that is just stupid




I understand what you are saying, that too much fruit can make you fat. What I am saying is it is probably not the fruit, it is too many carbs eaten too close together. If someone is getting fat from 2 pieces of fruit a day, as the original poster eats, then they have much more serious problems in their diet than fruit! You have to look at what else that person chowed on around the time he or she ate the fruit. Chances are, it is just too many carbs all at once, or close together. A piece of fruit on an empty stomach with eggs in the AM? No way. A piece of friut with oatmeal and maple syrup? Probably.

FYI, the GI of most fruits is lower than the GI of most moderate carbs such as oatmeal. The GI of pure fructose is 22. The GI of oatmeal is 47. Look it up.

I have attached some GI’s of fruits for you:


Fruits

Cherries Low 22
Grapefruit Low 25
Apricots (dried) Low 31
Apples Low 38
Pears Low 38
Plums Low 39
Peaches Low 42
Oranges Low 44
Grapes L Low 46
Kiwi fruit Low 53
Bananas Low 54
Fruit cocktail Medium 55
Mangoes Medium 56
Apricots Medium 57
Apricots (tinned in syrup) Medium 64
Raisins Medium 64
Pineapple Medium 66
**Watermelon High 72


Cereal Grains

Pearl barley Low 25
Rye Low 34
Wheat kernels Low 41
Rice, instant Low 46
Rice, parboiled Low 48
Barley, cracked Low 50
Rice, brown Medium 55
Rice, wild Medium 57
Rice, white Medium 58
Barley, flakes Medium 66
Taco Shell Medium 68
Millet High 71

according to www.glycemicindex.com

Porridge made from steel-cut oats, cooked in water GI = 52

Apple, raw (USA) USA GI = 40

im surprised. i dont follow the GI because once I start combining different foods it goes out the window anyway but that is still interesting to note.

according to www.glycemicindex.com

Porridge made from steel-cut oats, cooked in water GI = 52

Apple, raw (USA) USA GI = 40

im surprised. i dont follow the GI because once I start combining different foods it goes out the window anyway but that is still interesting to note.





thank you for supporting my claim. To specialbear, you really should do some research before going on the offensive. As Karatetricker said you're going to convince someone who isn't awfully knowledgeable yet that something is horrible that may be the only thing that keeps them sane in their cutting diet. Fruit has it's place, and while it may not work for you, it certainly, has, does, and will continue to work for others.

Glycemic index is calculated by having the test subject eat the amount of food in testing that has 50 grams of available, digestible carbohydrates in it, and measuring the insulin response. The important thing is that the amount of food eaten varies, since different foods have different amounts of digestible carbohydrates in it. GI does not mean that 100 grams of mashed potato or bread with 50 index gives the same insulin response as 100 grams of apple with 50 index

The thing is that fruit is mostly composed of water, not carbs, so to get a similar actual insulin response in your body you'd need to eat a lot more fruit than, say, the reference white bread.

Many fruit like peaches, oranges, grapefruit, cherries, apricot, watermelon etc have only 10% carbs in them or less, only a few (banana, mango, papaya) have 30%ish.

Glycemic load measures the insulin response of the carb content of a normal serving of the tested food, so it is a lot more relevant.

A glycemic load of oranges is 10 grams of carbs per orange x 63 GI index = 630 per orange

On the other hand a cup of spaghetti is 52 grams of carbs per cup x 59 GI index = 3,086 per cup

So you'd need to eat FIVE oranges to get the same carb effect as a single cup of pasta.

Basically you'd need to eat a LOT of fruit (other than bananas) for their carbs to start giving any serious noticeable effect.

Glycemic load measures the insulin response of the carb content of a normal serving of the tested food, so it is a lot more relevant.







Yup, per standardized serving, oats have almost three times the glycemic load of an apple:


Glycemic Load, Apple: 6
Glycemic load. Porrige Oats: 17

read up on professional bb dieting habits and then respond

Like gtx, dude etc said a lot of people don't want to be bb's. My cousin has he first contest sat actually. He's about 230 off season and 5 '8, 24 i think. Eeventhou, he swears to his parents he doesn't take roids. He went from 165 to 220 in about 18mths a few years ago. If you want to be pro that would be the main concern. His friend frank the tank is actually pro he's 5' 10, 275 right now.

pic of frank there i suppose its ok to post wouldn't want the guy mad at me lol i think i uploaded it correctly.

In my opinion; high fiber, low GI fruits are some of the healthiest carbs you can have. Can it be overdone? Yes. As can anything. It's my belief that most people should not have a problem getting into the high single digits with a few servings of fruit a day. Getting competition shredded is a different story. Not ever having tried to do it, I can't speak to it.

Although it's probably not particularly relevant to most here, there are professional bodybuilders eat fruit anyhow. Maybe not in the final weeks leading up to a competition. But many do at other times and even in earlier stages of leaning out.

Incorrect. We all want to be ripped and shredded while maintaining a healthy lifestyle and eating the things we enjoy and supply us with the nutrients we need to stay healthy.

I must say, your replies in this thread have offered no positive insight. Simply yelling at others and saying you're right, especially with absolutely nothing to back you, is not the proper way to go about offering advice.


hmmm, tell me one place where i yelled... my original post was my thoughts, laid out plain and simple. my following posts were to back up my ideas. just b.c i dont use a million stupid :D :D :nod: :) doesnt mean im angry at anyone. the whole point is to foster debate/arguments

Personally, i would rather go all out and get cut and minimize time rather than drawing out the process. if u dont want this, thats fine with me

Are you a professional bodybuilder ?

.....

no....

but that doesnt mean i READ and LEARN about others

I think he reverted to that once people challenged his original statement which was



While I do see where he attempted to suggest that too much fruit can be detrimental (true or not, I don't know), the underlined statement is what got me. Don't say CUT ALL FRUIT because now someone who isn't very experienced reads that and thinks fruit = bad. That is simply not the case, I don't care what your goals are. I do agree it should be somewhat limited when cutting, but there is certainly nothing wrong with a couple pieces per day.


dont want to respond to every post like last time (engineering final tomorrow) but lets get some things straight

i presented my opinion without gift wrap. sry....?!?!

its stupid to argue anymore about what is 'optimal'. the debate will never end. if u want to get ripped as fast as possible... drop all fruit. if u want studies on the detriments of fructose, just ask.

how expereinced does a person have to be to use a search button. If John were to make 30 stickies, i am willing to bet nearly 90% of all topics discussed would be covered, am i wrong??

Although it's probably not particularly relevant to most here, there are professional bodybuilders eat fruit anyhow. Maybe not in the final weeks leading up to a competition. But many do at other times and even in earlier stages of leaning out.


but that is my point tho....

in the last few weeks, they want to drop the last few bf and look as best as possible in the SHORTEST amount of time they have.

Hey Specialbear,

I for one do eat fruit occassionally but not tons and tons. Just a banana each day (sometimes two). Once in a while I'll have some other fruits, but it's not all the time. I will agree with you, to a point, in that if I were really trying to be strict on a fat cutting phase that I might drop some of the fruit intake. It all depends though. I'm not currently in a state where I feel the need to be quite that strict (I'm not training for competition or anything), and fruits have so far not cause any noticable roadblocks for me. Again, though, I am probably not quite as strict as you might be.

I do think you are making a mistake by continuing to reference a professional bodybuilder's diet. Most of the people here are not going to follow the same routine Ron Coleman or Jay Cutler follow. It's just not really that type of forum here. Most of the people here are looking to lose fat, yes, but also to maintain a healthy overall lifestyle and an enjoyable one.

I'm a pretty big and in-shape dude, I'm pretty advanced, (not trying to be cocky, just being honest) but I'm not going to do what I see Cutler doing in "New, Improved, and Beyond." Dude is eating 1000 carbs per day, mixing the hell out of fat and carbs, eating lots of white rice and such, and of course using steroids. He is well over 300 pounds and still maintaining a 6-pack in the off season (although a blurry one I would assume); not many people here are at that stage! I'm not saying that these guys are not disciplined or someone we can all admire or respect by ANY means (I do like and follow the sport and admire the athletes personally), I just don't think it's wise to base a "normal guy's" routine off of what a pro bodybuilder does.

Besides, to be completely honest I have seen a few pro bodybuilders who recommend fruit. I would have to go do some research and searching, but I think Mustafa Mohammad eats bananas and kiwi a lot. :)

Anyway I'm not trying to argue. I agree with you to a degree, and agree with others to a degree too. It's an interesting discussion to say the least. I just hope we can all remain civil here. :D


As far as proffesionals go... they have mainly genetics (im not gonna be stupid and say steroids) plain and simple. they can get away with a lot.
How many ppl here would eat what they do (altho less amounts) on a regular basis. NO ONE..

While i and u may not follow the diet, we can follow the principles. 8 weeks out, im willing to bet not one pro (successful) eats fructose or HFCS (even worse)

I Quit !!!!!!!!!!!

Care to elaborate why fruit is at all detrimental? For the most part, fruit is generically a very low-GI carb with high amounts of fiber (insert pears for example). Similarly, bananas are a somewhat higher GI carb that are great around work outs.

How is that any worse than eating some oatmeal?


are u serious? where did u read fruit is "very low GI" :rolleyes: ... although the GI scale is a bit "wacky" (just look up the reading for carrots vs. Twix), no one would say that oatmeal is a higher GI than fruit.

what makes bananas "great" around workouts??????

what is in them that can be measured that u CANNOT get from a vitamin or a low cal supplement or some P/F or P/C??????

I Quit !!!!!!!!!!!

u never know...... :p

I understand what you are saying, that too much fruit can make you fat. What I am saying is it is probably not the fruit, it is too many carbs eaten too close together. If someone is getting fat from 2 pieces of fruit a day, as the original poster eats, then they have much more serious problems in their diet than fruit! You have to look at what else that person chowed on around the time he or she ate the fruit. Chances are, it is just too many carbs all at once, or close together. A piece of fruit on an empty stomach with eggs in the AM? No way. A piece of friut with oatmeal and maple syrup? Probably.

FYI, the GI of most fruits is lower than the GI of most moderate carbs such as oatmeal. The GI of pure fructose is 22. The GI of oatmeal is 47. Look it up.

I have attached some GI’s of fruits for you:


Fruits

Cherries Low 22
Grapefruit Low 25
Apricots (dried) Low 31
Apples Low 38
Pears Low 38
Plums Low 39
Peaches Low 42
Oranges Low 44
Grapes L Low 46
Kiwi fruit Low 53
Bananas Low 54
Fruit cocktail Medium 55
Mangoes Medium 56
Apricots Medium 57
Apricots (tinned in syrup) Medium 64
Raisins Medium 64
Pineapple Medium 66
**Watermelon High 72


Cereal Grains

Pearl barley Low 25
Rye Low 34
Wheat kernels Low 41
Rice, instant Low 46
Rice, parboiled Low 48
Barley, cracked Low 50
Rice, brown Medium 55
Rice, wild Medium 57
Rice, white Medium 58
Barley, flakes Medium 66
Taco Shell Medium 68
Millet High 71


can u do me a favor, can u send me the link to where u got it from? or anyone for that matter

u never know...... :p


U never know what?

can u do me a favor, can u send me the link to where u got it from? or anyone for that matter

nm, i found one

i have a reading that says Twix is 40.....

so obviously that means its ok to eat? no it doesnt. not only does the GI matter, but where the sugar goes matters as well.

In an optimial world, all sugar would directly go to muscle storage and have no chance of being turned to fat.

Fruits do not do this, the process is delayed.... which is way i am saying to avoid all costs of getting a nanoounce fatter, avoid it.


edit: there is an enzyme (i forget) that converts fructose to gly. Once this is saturated, all excess is turned to fatty acids.... the levels of enz. vary in each person

he did elaborate.
he said excess fructose will spill over into fat stores after the liver glycogen is fully full.
the amount the liver can hold may differ with everyone.

but, i think if you spread your fruit out throughout the day, you would never have to worry about this.
but again, if you were to eat 20 apples within 10 minutes, or maybe even 5 - there would be some fat storage.

oatmeal is a different issue because it's used to refill muscle glycogen, whereas fructose cannot.


yeah... i dont get where ppl are getting confused. this is EXACTLY what i am saying.

altought i still stay for THE BEST POSSIBLE RESULTS EVER drop all fruit :tu:

U never know what?

if u come back.. which is kinda ironic

are u serious? where did u read fruit is "very low GI" :rolleyes: ... although the GI scale is a bit "wacky" (just look up the reading for carrots vs. Twix), no one would say that oatmeal is a higher GI than fruit.

what makes bananas "great" around workouts??????

what is in them that can be measured that u CANNOT get from a vitamin or a low cal supplement or some P/F or P/C??????
I'm not saying bananas are necessarily better than any other clean carb around a work out, but their higher GI works in an intermediary range between something really low GI and the high GI of dextrose for example. Can you find another carb that releases at about the same speed as a banana? sure, but I dont want to hunt for it.

I've read and hear from several nutritionists that apples, for example, were very low GI. One particular instance I'm recalling is Jeremy Likeness specifically saying a low-gi carb such as an apple near bed time is completely fine (which it is)


Fruit = low GI? Sure, right here brotha!

http://ziag4.mmb.usyd.edu.au/FMPro?-DB=GIDB2.fp5&-lay=TableView&-Format=detailsV4.htm&FoodID=F0602&-Find

Braeburn apples, my favorite. a WHOPPING GI of *****32*****, with a hefty GL of 5 (well, 4.7)


How bout oatmeal?

http://ziag4.mmb.usyd.edu.au/FMPro?-DB=GIDB2.fp5&-lay=TableView&-Format=detailsV4.htm&FoodID=Sue033&-Find

GI = 52
GL = 17

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE oatmeal and would rather eat it than an apple normally (just oatmeal, water, splenda). But fruit has its place


You wanna really rock the scales? Lets look at a plum:

http://ziag4.mmb.usyd.edu.au/FMPro?-DB=GIDB2.fp5&-lay=TableView&-Format=detailsV4.htm&FoodID=F0683&-Find

GI = 24
GL = 1.9

if u come back.. which is kinda ironic


Ya know, you're gettin' kinda nasty. Let's get down to business. Since you have such a firm grasp on this shit i'm sure you wouldn't mind posting a picture so we can all see the results you've accomplished following your non-fruit regimen.

Ya know, you're gettin' kinda nasty. Let's get down to business. Since you have such a firm grasp on this shit i'm sure you wouldn't mind posting a picture so we can all see the results you've accomplished following your non-fruit regimen.

wtf.... i dont get it.... ur the first one that said "hell"

im not mad at u..... or anyone

i just said what i do and what got me results and u took offense. the point of teh board is to hear opinions and let others decide what to do... u presented urs and i did mine... end of story... calmmm down

ur calling me out? how bout u pay my 40k school debt, and then ill pay for a camera. or drive down to UCLA and take it for me. im at wooden center after summer skool

Just because Twix has a GI of 44, well, have you checked its glycemic load? Maybe you eat so much as a 1/4 of a twix and your blood sugar levels sky rocket. you gotta look at the total picture.


eat too many apples, you'll get fat
eat too much oatmeal, you'll get fat.

wtf.... i dont get it.... ur the first one that said "hell"

im not mad at u..... or anyone

i just said what i do and what got me results and u took offense. the point of teh board is to hear opinions and let others decide what to do... u presented urs and i did mine... end of story... calmmm down

ur calling me out? how bout u pay my 40k school debt, and then ill pay for a camera. or drive down to UCLA and take it for me. im at wooden center after summer skool

LOL i just read that u live in the BIG APPLE. Now THAT is an ironic time to read where u live

I'm not saying bananas are necessarily better than any other clean carb around a work out, but their higher GI works in an intermediary range between something really low GI and the high GI of dextrose for example. Can you find another carb that releases at about the same speed as a banana? sure, but I dont want to hunt for it.

I've read and hear from several nutritionists that apples, for example, were very low GI. One particular instance I'm recalling is Jeremy Likeness specifically saying a low-gi carb such as an apple near bed time is completely fine (which it is)


Fruit = low GI? Sure, right here brotha!

http://ziag4.mmb.usyd.edu.au/FMPro?-DB=GIDB2.fp5&-lay=TableView&-Format=detailsV4.htm&FoodID=F0602&-Find

Braeburn apples, my favorite. a WHOPPING GI of *****32*****, with a hefty GL of 5 (well, 4.7)


How bout oatmeal?

http://ziag4.mmb.usyd.edu.au/FMPro?-DB=GIDB2.fp5&-lay=TableView&-Format=detailsV4.htm&FoodID=Sue033&-Find

GI = 52
GL = 17

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE oatmeal and would rather eat it than an apple normally (just oatmeal, water, splenda). But fruit has its place


You wanna really rock the scales? Lets look at a plum:

http://ziag4.mmb.usyd.edu.au/FMPro?-DB=GIDB2.fp5&-lay=TableView&-Format=detailsV4.htm&FoodID=F0683&-Find

GI = 24
GL = 1.9


hey brotha !!!

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Jun;89(6):2963-72.

b]Dietary fructose reduces circulating insulin and leptin, attenuates postprandial suppression of ghrelin, and increases triglycerides in women.[/b]

Teff KL, Elliott SS, Tschop M, Kieffer TJ, Rader D, Heiman M, Townsend RR, Keim NL, D'Alessio D, Havel PJ.

Monell Chemical Senses Center, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia 19104, USA.

Previous studies indicate that leptin secretion is regulated by insulin-mediated glucose metabolism. Because fructose, unlike glucose, does not stimulate insulin secretion, we hypothesized that meals high in fructose would result in lower leptin concentrations than meals containing the same amount of glucose. Blood samples were collected every 30-60 min for 24 h from 12 normal-weight women on 2 randomized days during which the subjects consumed three meals containing 55, 30, and 15% of total kilocalories as carbohydrate, fat, and protein, respectively, with 30% of kilocalories as either a fructose-sweetened [high fructose (HFr)] or glucose-sweetened [high glucose (HGl)] beverage. Meals were isocaloric in the two treatments. Postprandial glycemic excursions were reduced by 66 +/- 12%, and insulin responses were 65 +/- 5% lower (both P < 0.001) during HFr consumption. The area under the curve for leptin during the first 12 h (-33 +/- 7%; P < 0.005), the entire 24 h (-21 +/- 8%; P < 0.02), and the diurnal amplitude (peak - nadir) (24 +/- 6%; P < 0.0025) were reduced on the HFr day compared with the HGl day. In addition, circulating levels of the orexigenic gastroenteric hormone, ghrelin, were suppressed by approximately 30% 1-2 h after ingestion of each HGl meal (P < 0.01), but postprandial suppression of ghrelin was significantly less pronounced after HFr meals (P < 0.05 vs. HGl). Consumption of HFr meals produced a rapid and prolonged elevation of plasma triglycerides compared with the HGl day (P < 0.005). Because insulin and leptin, and possibly ghrelin, function as key signals to the central nervous system in the long-term regulation of energy balance, decreases of circulating insulin and leptin and increased ghrelin concentrations, as demonstrated in this study, could lead to increased caloric intake and ultimately contribute to weight gain and obesity during chronic consumption of diets high in fructose.
--- thnx to Mr. X for this


Read the last line... the bottom line is that NO ONE can measure how much is too high. Therefore, to be 100 percent safe, dont eat fruit. MOST ppl can get away with 1-2 or a 'couple' and be OK. But no one knows for sure...

does this clear up what i am saying?

ur calling me out? how bout u pay my 40k school debt, and then ill pay for a camera. or drive down to UCLA and take it for me. im at wooden center after summer skool[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's what I thought.
And just for the record, I ain't calling anybody out. If I was, it would be PERFECTLY clear. You say you got results, let's see em'.

LOL i just read that u live in the BIG APPLE. Now THAT is an ironic time to read where u live


Why?

I understood what you were saying from the beginning, that was not my question. I read the whole thing in fact.

Either I didn't fully understand it or simply didn't find it in the reading. The final line states that fructose may lead to higher caloric intake. Provided you still count your calories, isn't the fructose still superior to the glucose?

ur calling me out? how bout u pay my 40k school debt, and then ill pay for a camera. or drive down to UCLA and take it for me. im at wooden center after summer skool

Yeah, that's what I thought.
And just for the record, I ain't calling anybody out. If I was, it would be PERFECTLY clear. You say you got results, let's see em'.[/QUOTE]


"thats just what i thougt"

before i say anything else, what is it u think?

Why?


gimme a break..

congruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs

thats from dictionary.com btw

the fact that we are going to freaking war over fruit made me laff that u lived in NYC..... it was the last thing i expected to see since its n.n is the big apple

Because this thread has become devoid of anything even remotely resembling a useful discussion, I'm closing it. Feel free to resume bickering via PM if like.