Hey Gang!

I've been a long time lurker, and thought I'd officially get started. I've read the beginner's fatloss tips sticky post, and I've worked out a diet based on the tips. Here's my stats:

Age = 31
Height = 5'11"
Weight = 271 lbs
Activity Level = 1.55

According to the formula for BMR, and based on my activity level of 3-5 days per week, I should be taking in approx 3700 calories. I'm shooting to lose about 1 pound of fat per week, so I've subtracted 500 calories per day. That brings my calorie intake down to about 3200. With that in mind, I've created a very simple diet to get me started. I basically eat the same thing every day, to get used to the calories and to attempt to simplify the whole change in eating habits. I'll change up the meal plan once I get used to it. Here's the daily breakdown:

7AM - 2 Eggs, 2 Pieces of toast with margarine, 16oz Fruit Juice

10 AM - Roastbeef Sandwich on Rye Bread, Small amount of Miracle Whip, Medium Orange

1 PM - Turkey Sandwich on Rye, Miracle Whip, Medium Apple, Bush Baked Beans

4 PM - 3 Snyder Sourdough Pretzels, 16 oz Fruit Juice

7 PM - 8 oz Chicken Breast, 2 Cups of Rice, Small Salad, 16 oz 1% Milk

10 PM - 1/2 cup Cottage Cheese

Do you guys thing I'm headed down the right path with this diet? I wanted something that was easy for a beginner, and has room for improvement over time (swapping Mustard for Miracle Whip, Lowfat Cottage Cheese, etc). Additionally, I'm only doing pushups, situps and 45-60 minute walks as exercise right now. I plan to move into lifting (I'm very experienced with weights, just terribly out of shape) after 3-4 weeks of diet control. Any advice is welcomed!!

Brett

Hey Gang!

I've been a long time lurker, and thought I'd officially get started. I've read the beginner's fatloss tips sticky post, and I've worked out a diet based on the tips. Here's my stats:

Age = 31
Height = 5'11"
Weight = 271 lbs
Activity Level = 1.55

According to the formula for BMR, and based on my activity level of 3-5 days per week, I should be taking in approx 3700 calories. I'm shooting to lose about 1 pound of fat per week, so I've subtracted 500 calories per day. That brings my calorie intake down to about 3200. With that in mind, I've created a very simple diet to get me started. I basically eat the same thing every day, to get used to the calories and to attempt to simplify the whole change in eating habits. I'll change up the meal plan once I get used to it. Here's the daily breakdown:

7AM - 2 Eggs, 2 Pieces of toast with margarine, 16oz Fruit Juice

10 AM - Roastbeef Sandwich on Rye Bread, Small amount of Miracle Whip, Medium Orange

1 PM - Turkey Sandwich on Rye, Miracle Whip, Medium Apple, Bush Baked Beans

4 PM - 3 Snyder Sourdough Pretzels, 16 oz Fruit Juice

7 PM - 8 oz Chicken Breast, 2 Cups of Rice, Small Salad, 16 oz 1% Milk

10 PM - 1/2 cup Cottage Cheese

Do you guys thing I'm headed down the right path with this diet? I wanted something that was easy for a beginner, and has room for improvement over time (swapping Mustard for Miracle Whip, Lowfat Cottage Cheese, etc). Additionally, I'm only doing pushups, situps and 45-60 minute walks as exercise right now. I plan to move into lifting (I'm very experienced with weights, just terribly out of shape) after 3-4 weeks of diet control. Any advice is welcomed!!

Brett


Hi and welcome! first off it's really nice to see a new poster who's done a bit of reading & research before they post :tucool:

my biggest comment on your diet plan is that you have WAY too many processed carbs (bread & pretzels)... try substituting your toast in the morning with oatmeal (much better, slower burning carb) and add more eggs (whites only - you can have up to two yolks a day but you don't want to go over that), two eggs is not nearly enough protien... also, fruit juice is mostly just sugar (a lot is added to juices) I would substitute an orange for the orange juice, or an apple or banana... also... you 4 pm meal does not have any protien in it at all.. just simple carbs (this is bad) how about eating 1/2 can of tuna & some brocolli... or some whole wheat bread w/ natural peanut butter... it would also be better to be eating a LOT of green veggies (like: brocolli, spinach, romain lettuce, asparugus) instead of all of that fruit... fruit is good for you but it has a lot of natural sugars in it and if you don't use those sugars for energy they will turn to fat... try to have a good combination of protien and complex carbs (oatmeal, sweet potatoes, brown rice, etc) in every meal and have good green veggies in at least three of your 5-6 meals... I hope this helps and isn't just confusing :gl:

edit: and I almost forgot... you need some good fats in there... good fats would be: flaxseed oil, almonds, natural peanut butter, almond butter

Do you guys thing I'm headed down the right path with this diet? I wanted something that was easy for a beginner, and has room for improvement over time (swapping Mustard for Miracle Whip, Lowfat Cottage Cheese, etc). Additionally, I'm only doing pushups, situps and 45-60 minute walks as exercise right now. I plan to move into lifting (I'm very experienced with weights, just terribly out of shape) after 3-4 weeks of diet control.
I think your diet is a great starting point. It gets you used to eating every three hours or so, eating healthier food more consistently than you may be used to, dropping soda, lots of good stuff.

Most of all, I think you have the right attitude about it. A lot of people try to conquer the world in a day, then ditch their plan after two weeks because it's such a radical change from their normal lifestyle that it's impossible to keep up. I like that you recognize that it's a good start and that there's room for future tweaking once you get really comfortable with the plan you laid out. I'd say the first thing to go should be the 32 oz of fruit juice... those are all relatively empty calories (but still better than Coke!).

See how the fat loss goes at 500 calories under maintenance. If you're not seeing progress, you may want to trim off another 500 calories to really get things going. Good luck!

Thanks!!!!!

I based a lot of my diet choices on a training manual I read from the Houston Texans. In fact, it was posted here, and that's how I found it :) I'd like to start by saying that I forgot to mention that I am cooking nearly everything in flaxseed oil or Olive oil.

In the manual, the trainer stated a few things that stray from conventional thought that seems to pervade on this board. I think it's probably a great idea that I get my questions cleared up on this topic, so I know which path is best for me.

In the manual, the trainer first states that a diet of 60% carbs, 25% fat, and 15% protein is ideal. He made many arguements against taking in more protein, and the thing that really got me was that he stated that even the hardworking NFL athlete does not require more protein. I found it very interesting.

He also mentions fruit juices as a good alternative to actual fruit. I took it a step further, and try to avoid anything with High Fructose Corn Syrup ... yuck!

The trainer furthers recommended 4-5 servers of fruit per day and 1-2 servings of vegetables. I try to get plenty of veggies in my 7PM meal, adding broccoli and spinach to my salad :)

Do you guys feel the trainer is offbase? Here's the link to the manual. (http://www.houstontexans.com/fitness/pdfs/training_manual010703.pdf) Your thoughts are MUCH appreciated!

Brett

Thanks!!!!!
In the manual, the trainer stated a few things that stray from conventional thought that seems to pervade on this board. I think it's probably a great idea that I get my questions cleared up on this topic, so I know which path is best for me.

In the manual, the trainer first states that a diet of 60% carbs, 25% fat, and 15% protein is ideal. He made many arguements against taking in more protein, and the thing that really got me was that he stated that even the hardworking NFL athlete does not require more protein. I found it very interesting.

Brett


Fist of all, to be perfectly honest, and I’m guessing you have more than 50-80lb to loose, finding something you can stick with is going to be key. You can always refine things as you get going. Eat a lot of fruit and veg (1-2 servings is pathetic - I eat over 2lb/day), decent meat, non-processed food and stay away from the crap as much as possible. If you can keep it up, you will almost certainly loose a decent amount of fat.

Now as far as your comments go:

I didn't read it, but are you an NFL athlete? Most of us on this board are not professional athletes, which might be a major reason for the differences. In fact I’ll bet most of us do not regularly spend 4-6 hours per day working out! If you really are and have over 200lb of lean mass, then perhaps what I just said is not pertinent – I guess not from your last comment though.

Percentage marcos don't mean shit! How many calories are these guys consuming? You might find that 15% protein is close to 0.8-1g/lb lean body mass.

For anyone involved in a serious amount of aerobic training, a lot of carbs IS almost certainly the way to go.

You do not NEED a large amount of protein to retain or build muscle, it is just helpful for most of us who sit around most of the day, then go lift or work out for 1-2 hours max. If you have a manual labor job, or your day consists of workouts (i.e. you are a professional athlete), you may well be better off with less protein and more carbs.

Even if you wanted to do those macros, eating that much bread is almost certainly not a great idea. In fact, IMO, the only reason the’ whole wheat’ bread thing is so popular is because bread is so popular in our culture and many people cannot, or will not, give it up – same thing applies to most dairy. Thus they choose the supposedly ‘healthy’, lower GI option.

Most bread is still heavily processed, potatoes would be better IMO, especially with a decent protein-rich meal. Now a few slices a day – fine. If you have a load of weight to loose, then perhaps just avoiding sodas, donuts, fast food etc.. will be enough to loose that first 40-50lb. I started my ‘diet’ by substituting beer and fast food with wine, cheese and white bread (I moved to France) and lost over 20lb in 10 months. I ate a lot of cheese and bread, and averaged ½ bottle of wine/day!

However, that does not mean it is optimal, or will produce long-term results.

Last thing – is that diet really over 3000kcal?? Hard to believe it is.

NEdge - You ought to read the training guidelines. On page 4 (where it really begins to talk about nutrition), it states that the document is meant for a lifestyle not just for football, but life beyond the game. It's main goal is to keep the athletes from dying young. Most athletes have a very hard time with weight once the person retires, and I'm no exception to that rule. Give page 4 a read, I highly recommend it.

And I'm really trying to ignore the abrasive nature of your reply. The training manual was posted by a member of this board, and I was just taking his advice. The advice from the document contradicts other advice I've read and been given, so I'm just looking for someone to help make sense of all this information.

No sir, I'm not a professional athlete. Yes, I have about 50-80 pounds to lose. I have a lot of work ahead of me, and it's going to take quite awhile. And with my best effort, I believe the daily intake for this plan to be between 2900 and 3000 cal

i also think those calories are off. how did you come to that number? NEdge had alot of good points in there. The one that hit home for me was giving up the junk food to loose 40-50 pounds. I wouldnt go as far as to say 15% is optimal but it could be enough depending on how many calories you are eating a day. I eat 2-4 slices of bread a day and maybe a bagel on occasion. There are great alternatives to white bread out there and its not anything labeled whole wheat. I like Vermont Bread company or if you can get used to the taste sprouted grain may be the best option.

Here's a link to the manual... (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=14493)

I didn't think NEdge's response was abrasive, he made a lot of good points. That guide is a good place to start if you want a plan laid out that you can follow. It's a starting point, but I think you'll find that it's not really tailored towards your average guy trying to lose weight and get in shape. But who cares, it's somewhere to begin. As time goes on, you'll figure out what's working and what isn't. NEdge said he started his weight loss out with a diet of bread, cheese and wine. I started my lifting routine out with push-ups and paint cans. The point is that you start somewhere. Now stop worrying about whether it's good or not (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=19242) and get to it! :tucool:

Here's the breakdown on what I gathered for the calories (I used calorieking most of the time, since I was at work while I built the diet):

7AM = 560
2 Large Eggs = 140 cal
2 Slices Wheat Toast = 200 cal
tbsp Margarine = I forget
16oz Orange Juice = 220 cal

10AM = 393
2 slices bread = 200 cal
Miracle Whip = 13 cal
2 oz Roastbeef = 100 cal
Medium Orange = 80 cal

1PM = 653
2 slices bread = 200 cal
Miracle Whip = 13 cal
2 oz Turkey = 60 cal
Medium Apple = 80 cal
Bush Baked Beans = 300 cal

4PM = 520
3 Snyder Sourdough Pretzels = 300 cal
16 oz Fruit Juice = 220 cal

7PM = 780 cal
8oz Chicken = 220 cal
2 Cups Rice, Cooked = 340 cal
Small Salad = 70 cal
8oz 1% Milk = 150 cal

10PM = 120 cal
1/2 Cup Cottage Cheese

Grand Total = 3026 cal per day

Does it still seem wrong? Like I said, I had to use websites to grab the info. Some of it, I know of the top of my head. The bread I use is 100 cal per slice, etc.

NEdge - You ought to read the training guidelines. On page 4 (where it really begins to talk about nutrition), it states that the document is meant for a lifestyle not just for football, but life beyond the game. It's main goal is to keep the athletes from dying young. Most athletes have a very hard time with weight once the person retires, and I'm no exception to that rule. Give page 4 a read, I highly recommend it.

And I'm really trying to ignore the abrasive nature of your reply. The training manual was posted by a member of this board, and I was just taking his advice. The advice from the document contradicts other advice I've read and been given, so I'm just looking for someone to help make sense of all this information.

No sir, I'm not a professional athlete. Yes, I have about 50-80 pounds to lose. I have a lot of work ahead of me, and it's going to take quite awhile. And with my best effort, I believe the daily intake for this plan to be between 2900 and 3000 cal


OK, I apologize.

I believe your intake values, your plan just doesn't seem to include much food.

15% of 3000kcal = 112g protein. On the low side IMO, but Jeremy had good fortune with a low protein diet.

I think I also got slightly wound up by the above suggestion about limiting fruit - I would eat as much fruit as you want, although I would eat it rather than drink juice since it is more filling.

At the end of the day, you are going to have to figure it out for yourself. Jeremy had to figure out that he prefered a certain diet. Clearly many people here prefer higher protein, some low carbs, some higher carbs. There is certainly scientific evidence that our bodies can run just as well on low-carb as high-carb diets.


From page 4, my opinions:
If you can loose 1lb/week or less on any diet, you will retain muscle IMO.

There is no reason why fats should be resticted to 25%. Macros as percentages are meaningless. You should at the very least consider macros in terms of g/lbm. There is no set 'best way' or 'healthiest' way to divide up macros, but there are still a lot of nutritionists that buy into the high cab, low protein diet. Many people here find it hard to contol calories on a 60% carb diet, but you will have to try it to know if it works for you.

I disagree with consuming snacks between meals - if you need to eat, make it a proper meal. The exception would be food during a workout.

The rest looks good to me.

I'd also like to add that I was really hoping for any comment regarding the amount of calories that I'm shooting for, my interpretation of the BMR formula (my interpretation isn't always right when it comes to numbers), the makeup of the diet, etc. I really believe in the balanced approach, and I couldn't think of a better place to get that feedback.

Thanks NEdge!

I will definitely take your advice into account while I try to get my diet sorted. Thanks again, sir :)

Thanks again, sir :)

Seems you have been knighted NEdge.

I have never used calorie king but many others have so I assume it is reliable. Didnt seem like a lot of food to me but based on your numbers it does add up.

I was surprised too :) I was even more surprised when I found I could eat around 3000 cal per day and it only comes to $72 per week! Holy ....

Yea, he's knighted :) You all are! hehe, thanks again everyone. I knew I came to the right place with my questions.

I was surprised too :) I was even more surprised when I found I could eat around 3000 cal per day and it only comes to $72 per week! Holy ....

Yea, he's knighted :) You all are! hehe, thanks again everyone. I knew I came to the right place with my questions.

OK, now I'm going to quote that article - 1lb/week. Really this is absolutely the best gauge. Monitor your weight (I average mine over 7 days, but I know weighing in every day drives some people nuts) and adjust calories acordingly. Don't worry if you drop more in the first few weeks.

Really, it's the only way, all those calculations are only estimates. 3000-3500 with exercise seems a very reasonable starting guess to me though.

I have never used calorie king but many others have so I assume it is reliable.
CalorieKing is fairly reliable, but it's always better to use the actual nutrition info on the packaging from your own food. Single variations may only be 20-30 calories, but when you add up your food for the day, calorie king (or any of the food databases) can be off by as much as several hundred calories, even if you've looked everything up properly.

Hi djinni69, my comment will be slightly unrelated to the debate above, but I saw the word 'margarine' in your diet and couldn't keep my mouth shut!

If I were you I'd throw away any margarine and staw away from it like the poison it is. A few days ago I read an interesting article on margarine vs. butter, and long story short, margarine is only 1 molecule away from being a PLASTIC!!!!*
While butter is a completely organic substance which helps the food absorbtion.

So I recommend switching margarine to butter and generally stay away from any hydrogenated oils. :tucool:

* Well, I'd really like an experts opinion on that because margarine is basically a hydrogenated oil. But then again chemistry is a tricky science... But It's terribly unhealthy anyway.

This is perhaps not the time to mention (but I'll do it anyway :D ) that I developed a theory that whenever you see the words 'Healthy Sustitude' written on a product - don't touch that thing! In this reference margarine being the 'healthy substitude' to butter...

OK, I'll shut up now :D

its very misleading when they say things like margarine is only one molecule away from plastic. water is only one molecule away from hydrogen peroxide.

margarine is bad bad bad. definetly use butter and avoid all labels with the word hydrogenated.

Duly noted! I like butter better anyway, hehehe :) Thanks!