First off, the complimenties: Great job to John for achieving his transformation and motivating many others to do the same. Also congratulations for making a forum, I think it was a very wise idea.

I've wrote to you before John about incorporating weight training. I've read the Max-OT program (actually printed it off and got it in a binder for reference) but I keep wondering about some issues.

I don't know if you remember or not, but I am in Muay Thai kickboxing, which is very brutal and very demanding. I want some muscle mass to add to the force behind my blows, but this is where the problem arises. Despite my knowledge of muscles and such, I constantly get differing opinions from muscle mags like Flex, martial art mags like Blackbelt, and what my Anatomy and Physiology Professor keeps saying about muscles.

4-6 reps per set, from the majority of sources I've read, will lead to the development of large muscle. But see, I don't want to be bigger and slow. I need to be able to deliver lightning quick and bone shattering blows at a moments notice. I want muscle mass but not at the sacrifice of speed.

I'm wondering, will I lose my speed by training my muscle fibers in this manner? Is this not training mostly my slow twitch fibers? See, recently I've been doing reps of 10-12, trying to strike a balance between the fibers so I develop mass and endurance for my muscles. But if this Max-OT method will allow me to build mass quicker without slowing me down in any way, well hell I want to do that.

Please don't think me as ignorant, it's just that I've read so much and everyone has their own take on things..I figured I'd turn to yourself and knowledgable members of this forum to help me get to the facts.

Thanks for help in advance everyone,

-Steve

its what you eat that determines your end result of muscle development.. and how you train

it's pretty hard to git big huge muscles when training mui thai.. trust me, i know.. i use to train mui thai

Well, I don't want big huge bodybuilder muscles, but I do want some mass and some decently sized arms. Basically, big enough to not impair me.

I also have been watching my protein intake and such, I'm limiting my intake somewhat to purposely make my muscles not grow as large and fast, but I still want to use Max-OT is possible to speed up the process.

You won't turn into a body builder overnight, that can take years.
Do get some lean mass, it won't slow you down. Look at Bruce Lee as an example, he had a lot of lean mass, but stayed small and quick, that's probably what you want.

So basically, the max-OT method of training will work good for my purposes then?

I think the thing that had me worried the most was the 4-6 rep range to be truthful.

Hi!

The thing that I have noticed with Max-ot is once you get used to 4-6 reps you have a hard time going back to 8-12. You loose alot of stamina. This is very typical if you train the explosive musclefiber in the body. I think you might get more explosive but lose some stamina. If I was you I would do both low and high rep traning. The second thing is that max-ot doesnt work on everyone. Some people respond very well to high rep traning. You have to try yourself. The best tip of all is never leave a winning concept. If you get gains now, don't change it until you get start feeling like you are standing in one place.


First off, the complimenties: Great job to John for achieving his transformation and motivating many others to do the same. Also congratulations for making a forum, I think it was a very wise idea.

I've wrote to you before John about incorporating weight training. I've read the Max-OT program (actually printed it off and got it in a binder for reference) but I keep wondering about some issues.

I don't know if you remember or not, but I am in Muay Thai kickboxing, which is very brutal and very demanding. I want some muscle mass to add to the force behind my blows, but this is where the problem arises. Despite my knowledge of muscles and such, I constantly get differing opinions from muscle mags like Flex, martial art mags like Blackbelt, and what my Anatomy and Physiology Professor keeps saying about muscles.

4-6 reps per set, from the majority of sources I've read, will lead to the development of large muscle. But see, I don't want to be bigger and slow. I need to be able to deliver lightning quick and bone shattering blows at a moments notice. I want muscle mass but not at the sacrifice of speed.

I'm wondering, will I lose my speed by training my muscle fibers in this manner? Is this not training mostly my slow twitch fibers? See, recently I've been doing reps of 10-12, trying to strike a balance between the fibers so I develop mass and endurance for my muscles. But if this Max-OT method will allow me to build mass quicker without slowing me down in any way, well hell I want to do that.

Please don't think me as ignorant, it's just that I've read so much and everyone has their own take on things..I figured I'd turn to yourself and knowledgable members of this forum to help me get to the facts.

Thanks for help in advance everyone,

-Steve

I have more tips for you. If you want em?

Definately, the more the better.

You're right on the stamina issue, however I do muay thai four times a week, and I do quite a lot of plyometrics in the classes as well. Usually boxer situps, normal pushups, incline pushups, walking pushups, knuckle pushups, squats, duckwalking and bunny hops to name a few.

Do you think that this would create a good balance? I'm hoping that the plyometrics would keep my stamina from falling as I switch to the 4-6 rep range of Max-OT

Well, just as you mentioned... everyone has a different opinion when it comes to lifting. I too read several sources for my lifting information, and often, they all contradict one another. This just goes to show you that a) no, one source, is 100% correct and b) everyone develops differently from different workouts.

I will tell you this however. I had been using the Max OT principles for the last 3 months to a degree. My first set was usually 8-10 reps, 2nd set 5-7 reps and 3rd set 4-6 reps. All maximum overload. I managed to gain about 10 lbs in muscle mass. However, I too am a Martial Artist of over 11 years and I must say, I am less flexibile now then ever before in my life. My arms don't chamber like they used to and my almost full split is nowhere to be found. This of course is also due to the fact that I neglected stretching during this time, but I definitely feel a difference.

The bottom line is, you gotta find what works for you. With how active you are, I think Max-OT would be okay, just make sure you constantly stretch. I personally don't like how they NEVER work your fast twitch fibers. Last week I began a new lifting program right out of January's FLEX magazine edition called "12 weeks Ripped". It goes from heavy overload phase (still with some 10-12 rep exercises) to middle phase and then to light phase. In 12 weeks we'll see how it works out. I just felt I needed a change as only lifting to maximum overload was not fulfilling all my needs.

:gl:

Thanks for the feedback :)

Have you considered maybe doing a plyometric routine 2 or 3 times a week? That combined with stretching should cover flexibility and the fast twitch fibers

It seems that as long as I do the MAX-OT right, stretch and continue to do my muay thai and the hordes of plyo we do, that I should be relatively fine and be able to put on some quality mass without sacrificing anything else.

I'm only looking to add on about 15-20 lbs...maybe 25 if all goes well, I don't think that would hurt.

Hi Tiger. :)

I think it's good that you do different things. One thing that I am wondering is how much you actually work out? If you are doing thai 4 times a week and on top on that wanna do max-ot I think you might be a bit over the top. Max-ot is extremly straining on the ligaments and stuff. You need to have days when you are totally off workout to get maximum resluts. I myself take one week off every 5th to 6th week when doing max-ot just not to get over-worked out. May I also ask your diet? I think you should consider eating about 3-4 grams per/kilo body weight when doing max-ot and your other workout together due do the high muscle brakedown that max-ot gives. Do you take glutamine? If not I think you should consider that too.

No problem, I'll show you my schedule and diet

monday- muay thai
tuesday- max ot program (chest, back, shoulders), cardio (15 min hiit)
wednesday- rest day
thursday- muay thai
friday- cardio, then muay thai
saturday- max ot program (biceps and triceps), muay thai later that night (technical class though, not overly hard on body)
sunday- rest day

I don't weight train my legs because after the hundreds of kicks and plyo from muay thai, by the end of the week they feel like logs.

my diet is usually as follows:

breakfast: 2 slices PB toast (no butter) and a glass of orange juice

snack: 1 cup bowl of honey bunches of oats, 1/3 cup milk, protein shake (1 scoop)

dinner: toasted turkey sandwich w/ lettuce and 1 tsp. spicy light mayo

snack: 2 slices PB toast

supper: usually some chicken breasts, or some pasta, sometimes both, its usually a combination of the two somehow

snack: if it was a workout day, another protein shake w/ two scoops, otherwise, another turkey sandwich

I also don't eat anything after 8pm, I just drink water or if its a late night, I have a protein shake (usually around 11pm if thats the case)

I also rub down with thai boxing linament every wednesday and saturday, on every major muscle as well as my elbows and knees, to keep muscles/linaments loose and flexible.

What do you think?

Hi!

I think you are eating too little and to less times a day. You should bring it up to six meals with around 3 hours between each meal, and you are also eating the wrong stuff. Way to much fast carbs and too little protein. How much is your cup of protein shake in grams? I take to shakes a day for about 60 grams. That is around 50 grams of pure whey protein a shake and then I eat 4 times on that. In around 4 months (trained nothing the year before) I have went from doing 10x3 34 lbs (16,5 kg) biceps curls to 10x3 with 54lbs on each hand (24,5 kg). Next week I will add another 5 lbs and go yo 39lbs (26,5 kg). You have to constantly add more stress to the muscle to have gains. See way to many people doing the same thing over and over. And when you look at them you see no changes at all.

What are your body stats, weight and length? I think I can help you out alot here man. You will get better gains. After all that is what you want. If you are doing the work why not have maximized gains?

regards
Ludvig.

No problem, I'll show you my schedule and diet

monday- muay thai
tuesday- max ot program (chest, back, shoulders), cardio (15 min hiit)
wednesday- rest day
thursday- muay thai
friday- cardio, then muay thai
saturday- max ot program (biceps and triceps), muay thai later that night (technical class though, not overly hard on body)
sunday- rest day

I don't weight train my legs because after the hundreds of kicks and plyo from muay thai, by the end of the week they feel like logs.

my diet is usually as follows:

breakfast: 2 slices PB toast (no butter) and a glass of orange juice

snack: 1 cup bowl of honey bunches of oats, 1/3 cup milk, protein shake (1 scoop)

dinner: toasted turkey sandwich w/ lettuce and 1 tsp. spicy light mayo

snack: 2 slices PB toast

supper: usually some chicken breasts, or some pasta, sometimes both, its usually a combination of the two somehow

snack: if it was a workout day, another protein shake w/ two scoops, otherwise, another turkey sandwich

I also don't eat anything after 8pm, I just drink water or if its a late night, I have a protein shake (usually around 11pm if thats the case)

I also rub down with thai boxing linament every wednesday and saturday, on every major muscle as well as my elbows and knees, to keep muscles/linaments loose and flexible.

What do you think?

Yeah...I've been worrying I had too many of the carbs..

Well, I'm overweight, but not tremendously overweight, and I am decently fit thanks to the muay thai.

I'm 5"10' , 21 year old male, 230 lbs, I don't look quite as bad as it sounds, I do however have a "beer belly" type gut, and some fat around my face. I'm looking to drop to around... 170, 180 - somewhere in that area I'm thinking.

My average protein shake has 66g of protein in it.

A big problem though is that whole wheat bread and toast and stuff is really available in my house, so any alternatives you can suggest will be -really- welcomed. I'm looking for more variety and health choices, not to mention I'm sick to death of bread.

I have a two week diet for mazimizing the fatburning process in the body. It's written in swedish but I could translate it for you if you want it. It's a diet of around 1900 calories written by swedens most famous nutrition specialist. Want it? You stick to it for 14 days and then you need to add cheating day to keep the burning alive.

Every tried oat meal? Throw away the white breed. That is the first thing you do.

I am 6.0 and weight around 185. I am around 10% of body fat. Veins are starting to show all over the body. Going for 8%.

Yeah...I've been worrying I had too many of the carbs..

Well, I'm overweight, but not tremendously overweight, and I am decently fit thanks to the muay thai.

I'm 5"10' , 21 year old male, 230 lbs, I don't look quite as bad as it sounds, I do however have a "beer belly" type gut, and some fat around my face. I'm looking to drop to around... 170, 180 - somewhere in that area I'm thinking.

My average protein shake has 66g of protein in it.

A big problem though is that whole wheat bread and toast and stuff is really available in my house, so any alternatives you can suggest will be -really- welcomed. I'm looking for more variety and health choices, not to mention I'm sick to death of bread.

Hi!

Would like to add a statement. It's probably not too many carbs. It's more the type and quality...


I have a two week diet for mazimizing the fatburning process in the body. It's written in swedish but I could translate it for you if you want it. It's a diet of around 1900 calories written by swedens most famous nutrition specialist. Want it? You stick to it for 14 days and then you need to add cheating day to keep the burning alive.

Every tried oat meal? Throw away the white breed. That is the first thing you do.

I am 6.0 and weight around 185. I am around 10% of body fat. Veins are starting to show all over the body. Going for 8%.

Yea, you're totally correct.

I don't find sticking to a diet hard at all..It's just, well unfortunately until I make it into the RCMP (if at all and when I do it will be a while from now) I have to make due with what I have here at home I'm afraid :(

But any dietary alternatives you can suggest would be great, I can buy a few things for myself to eat.

And yes, I am very interested in that two week fatburning diet. Is that what you used? And if so, I'm assuming you can just use it over and over again, right?

Thanks for the help btw, it's been great

Here is an example of a normal day.

Breakfast 7 am
Oatmeal 60 grams (dry basis, varm in it micro with water)
200 ml of light milk 0.1% fat
Full grain breed 30 gram
80 gram of cottage cheese
60 grams of light ham 2-3% of fat

snack 10 am
Protien shake 60 grams if you have a whey 80%

lunch 12.30 pm
75 gram of full grain pasta
200 gram of chicken breast (add spices and maybe a light souce. I add oriental chilli 100 grams from uncle bens. Teaste really good)
1 tomato

snack 3.30 pm

Protien shake 60 grams if you have a whey 80%

afterworkout 6.30 pm (depending on working hours)

60 grams of malt cards and 50 grams of high quality proteins

dinner 8.00 pm

200 gram of potatoes
200 grams of chicken breast

snack 11.00 pm

I can of tunna on water.

If you stick to this you get around 250 grams of high quality proteins, and around 230 carbs. The fat level is around 20% of the total daily intake which is good. Don't wanna go too low on fat.

Try it out one day. As you can see I only have breed in the morning. Any comments?

Yea, you're totally correct.

I don't find sticking to a diet hard at all..It's just, well unfortunately until I make it into the RCMP (if at all and when I do it will be a while from now) I have to make due with what I have here at home I'm afraid :(

But any dietary alternatives you can suggest would be great, I can buy a few things for myself to eat.

And yes, I am very interested in that two week fatburning diet. Is that what you used? And if so, I'm assuming you can just use it over and over again, right?

Thanks for the help btw, it's been great

Thanks! I really like how this looks. I can easily afford to have 2 or 3 shakes per day, and I have an unbelievably amount of tuna, as far as chicken breasts go, I can buy a box of 30 boneless skineless chicken breasts for 25 bucks.

So this diet definately looks like I can do it. Thanks for showing it to me and thanks for all the help

That was just an example on how it can look. You should eat other things too, but the basic foods are alot of tuna and chicken. If I was you I would also eat some salomon. It's really good for fatburning due to the high amont of omega-3 fat accids in it.