I've noticed that as I'm on my cutting phase my mood is decidedly fouler than normal. I'm irritable and walking around almost like there is a chip on my shoulder. I'm guessing it's because my body is going through the fat loss phase and thinks it's starving or something. I'm on a 10x body weight calorie plan with lots of lean meats and whole grains. Trying to keep to a 40/40/20 plan as close as possible.

My general question is, has anybody else had a similar change in mood when cutting? If so, was it a funk that lasted the entire cutting period or was it a temporary adjustment phase?

I find that once I start seeing tangible results in the mirror when I'm cutting, my mood becomes almost euphoric. It can be tough getting started, but once the fat starts coming off and your body adjusts to the reduced calories you'll probably be ok.

Absolutely. Also affected my concentration. I found the solution for me was upping carbs or being sure to take a day off now and then (not to gorge! just to eat normally).

Your body is telling you something is not in balance. Tweak until you find an optimal balance.

should be a temporary adjustment phase .. hell, im doing a form of low carb (CKD) at the moment, and im quite adjusted to the low carbs. i mean my mood is the worst on the weekend when i carb up, because im not used to having high amounts of carbs daily.

same situation whenever you start something new.

I agree with john...since I've started physically seeing results in the mirror, the hardest stuff has become almost the easiest. Maybe when I start plateauing I'll understand what you're feeling :(

I'm not sure i could ever go on one of these real-low carb diets, i love my carbs, especially after cardio on a morning when i have let the after burn tail off.

Same exact thing happens to me whenever I cut...it feels like something to do with your insulin sensitivity. I don't think your body likes it when you tell it that it can't have carbs whenever it wants anymore. I'd say the best thing you can do is just recognize what's happening, know that it's out of your control, and pretty much just will that chip off your shoulder.

If that ends up being too difficult or the mood swings persist, then it's probably time for a tweak like Hort said.

When I cut using the traditional, bodybuilding trend for cutting ... i.e. lower carbs, higher protein, I got irritable and my wife and children really didn't enjoy having me around. I felt as if I was in a fog and had headaches all the time.

When I cut using what I feel is a more sane method for me, keeping adequate carbs (about 300 grams per day) and reducing protein (only around 90 grams per day) I felt INCREDIBLE ... loaded with energy, and on top of the world ... it was the first time I actually gained strength and endurance while cutting to low single digits body fat. I'm glad I tried that experiment, and you won't catch me starving myself of carbs or stuffing in extra protein again!

Jeremy

When I cut using the traditional, bodybuilding trend for cutting ... i.e. lower carbs, higher protein, I got irritable and my wife and children really didn't enjoy having me around. I felt as if I was in a fog and had headaches all the time.

When I cut using what I feel is a more sane method for me, keeping adequate carbs (about 300 grams per day) and reducing protein (only around 90 grams per day) I felt INCREDIBLE ... loaded with energy, and on top of the world ... it was the first time I actually gained strength and endurance while cutting to low single digits body fat. I'm glad I tried that experiment, and you won't catch me starving myself of carbs or stuffing in extra protein again!

Jeremy

I gotta agree 100%. I began my "cut" using the same traditional methods, high protein, low carbs. I was miserable to say the least.On the advise of Marcus I reluctantly raised my carbs to 40%. All hell broke loose. My energylevel went through the roof, my entire demeanor changed for the better. More importantly, lbs. just melted off. I was amazed. I wouldn't have believed it in a million years. Needless to say, I still continue a 40/40/20 split and my BF% is so low it scares me!

When I cut using the traditional, bodybuilding trend for cutting ... i.e. lower carbs, higher protein, I got irritable and my wife and children really didn't enjoy having me around. I felt as if I was in a fog and had headaches all the time.

When I cut using what I feel is a more sane method for me, keeping adequate carbs (about 300 grams per day) and reducing protein (only around 90 grams per day) I felt INCREDIBLE ... loaded with energy, and on top of the world ... it was the first time I actually gained strength and endurance while cutting to low single digits body fat. I'm glad I tried that experiment, and you won't catch me starving myself of carbs or stuffing in extra protein again!

Jeremy

90g of protein a day?! Wasn't that hard to pull off?

Interesting responses, thanks everybody. It very well could be my body readjusting to not having the instant energy it was used to having from the sodas and the sugary foods, even though in my mind I didn't eat that much of them. Maybe I was only fooling myself. Perhaps in a few more days I will have adjusted to burning the new fuel, FAT!! lol, here's hoping. If not I might have to tweak my ratios a bit to see if that helps. Once again , thanks.

if ur not eating enopugh or right u may have low blood sugar that can result in mood swings easy irritability and grumpyness too :spaz:

90g of protein a day?! Wasn't that hard to pull off?

yeah i have to agree.....

I mean, by no means do i try and stuff extra protein down my throat, but 90?? 90/6 meals = 16ish g... thats like... nothing :confused:

Not to mention that my carbs from Ezekial bread have like 5g protein per slice. I dont even try to get protein from carb sources and i do!!

When I cut using the traditional, bodybuilding trend for cutting ... i.e. lower carbs, higher protein, I got irritable and my wife and children really didn't enjoy having me around. I felt as if I was in a fog and had headaches all the time.

When I cut using what I feel is a more sane method for me, keeping adequate carbs (about 300 grams per day) and reducing protein (only around 90 grams per day) I felt INCREDIBLE ... loaded with energy, and on top of the world ... it was the first time I actually gained strength and endurance while cutting to low single digits body fat. I'm glad I tried that experiment, and you won't catch me starving myself of carbs or stuffing in extra protein again!

Jeremy

Are you saying you can lose more bodyfat by eating high carbs, low protein. From what I read on these boards and other places, I thought the opposite was true, not necessarily low carb, but an even ratio with some fats.

It definitely changes. I feel that my fuse is shorter and things set me off quicker but at the same time my overall happiness and contentment in life increases because I know I'm losing weight.

Don't get me wrong; the overall change in mood is not all that great, but sometimes like especially when I come home for supper and I'm really hungry, I can sometimes be in a bitchy mood and it's inexplicable except for the fact that I'm low on food.

As you stick to lower calories for a while you'll get used to it and they'll affect your mood less.

I never, ever do "low-carbs". I'm sure that if I did I'd probably turn homicidal. I just keep my ratios good and lower the calories. I so dearly wish people would stop with this low-carb thing that Atkins has somehow virus-like convinced much of the population that it has to be done to lose weight!

No, I'm definitely not doing the low carb thing. I tried atkins back in 2000, I lost 25 pounds on it in a few months. But I had death breath, my wife couldn't stand it. I did have an incredible boost of energy while on it, however as soon as I got tired of avoiding all the "bad" foods I gained all the weight back and then some.
I've come to realize, as have a lot of people that I see on this board, that there is not one cure all magic bullet. I've started my cutting with readjusting my diet to not deprive myself of any one type of food. I'm trying to get a meal in every 2 hours or so while awake, it works out better in the mornings than the evenings, I find I'm just not that hungry in the evenings now. I've also started lifting weights again to build some fat burning muscle.
I actually feel a little better today as far as mood goes. I remember reading one time about how when you don't have the excess sugar in your body it can lead to yeast death which releases a toxin that can really foul up you mood. I don't remember where I read it, probably in one of those atkins type books so I can't say it's a medical fact or anything. Just a vague recollection I just had. That could just all be fluff and my body might just be ready to burn a new fuel now.

When I cut using the traditional, bodybuilding trend for cutting ... i.e. lower carbs, higher protein, I got irritable and my wife and children really didn't enjoy having me around. I felt as if I was in a fog and had headaches all the time.

When I cut using what I feel is a more sane method for me, keeping adequate carbs (about 300 grams per day) and reducing protein (only around 90 grams per day) I felt INCREDIBLE ... loaded with energy, and on top of the world ... it was the first time I actually gained strength and endurance while cutting to low single digits body fat. I'm glad I tried that experiment, and you won't catch me starving myself of carbs or stuffing in extra protein again!

Jeremy

Jeremy-I've seen you post this before. I'm curious how you count protein. Where is that 90 grams coming from? Do you count the protein in all you eat? Because so many foods have trace amounts of protein. It seems you would get more than that just from eating a diet rich in whole grains, legumes, beans, fruit, nuts, etc... with some minimal animal sources added. For example, a cup of raw oats actually has 13 grams of protein for its 54 grams of carbs.

Personally I think 10x bodyweight is too few calories to cut on, substantially so for some people. I'm not saying it's impossbile to do or even to do healthfully and without muscle loss. But I think most people would feel much better on a higher calorie diet and less of a deficit and still lose fat very successfully.

When I cut using the traditional, bodybuilding trend for cutting ... i.e. lower carbs, higher protein, I got irritable and my wife and children really didn't enjoy having me around. I felt as if I was in a fog and had headaches all the time.

When I cut using what I feel is a more sane method for me, keeping adequate carbs (about 300 grams per day) and reducing protein (only around 90 grams per day) I felt INCREDIBLE ... loaded with energy, and on top of the world ... it was the first time I actually gained strength and endurance while cutting to low single digits body fat. I'm glad I tried that experiment, and you won't catch me starving myself of carbs or stuffing in extra protein again!

Jeremy
when i was on the low carb high protein diet i too was getting headaches and an a$$hole .............come to think of it even now on my new diet i still am an a$$hole :lol: no headaches though but on my cutting diet i am definately a jerk

Hard to pull off ... how do you mean?

90g of protein a day?! Wasn't that hard to pull off?

Nope, not saying that at all. I'm saying that I feel better when my carbs are higher. I might be able to get leaner and perhaps even preserve or build more muscle with higher protein, but why bother? If I were competing, it would be one thing, but I'm not not ... so I choose to do what allows me to lean down, feel great, and have energy, rather than something that feels like a miserable diet.

As for those curious about how I managed it ... I have every single day of nutrition and exercise posted (and you can see the pictures of me losing the 35 pounds over 12 weeks) here:

http://www.bodyblog.com/Public.asp?id=507

Think outside the protein box!

Jeremy

Are you saying you can lose more bodyfat by eating high carbs, low protein. From what I read on these boards and other places, I thought the opposite was true, not necessarily low carb, but an even ratio with some fats.

Hard to pull off ... how do you mean?

I think he might be thinking along the lines that I was. Like that whole grains and other foods have protein in them. So, even a diet that is largely carbs and good fats and minimal animal products would be more than that.

I counted everything, I was tracking with DietPower, and yes, perhaps it was off and over estimated ... but you can scrutinize every day and average it and total it yourself ... it's been a few years since that particular challenge, so I may be a tad off:

http://www.bodyblog.com/Public.asp?id=507

According to DietPower, this was my average intake for 84 days:

Calories: 2122
Fat: 64g (11g saturated / 14g polyunsaturated / 13g monounsaturated) 26%
Cholesterol: 132mg
Sodium: 2360mg
Potassium: 3110mg
Carbohydrate: 297g (37g fiber / 59g sugar) 55%
Protein: 94g 17%
Vitamin A: 1910 mcg
Vitamin C: 3000 mg (3g)
Calcium: 1950mg
Iron: 35mg
Vitamin D: 127 IU
Vitamin E: 557 IU
Thiamin: 1230 mcg
Riboflavin: 1550 mcg
Niacin: 77 mg
Vitamin B6: 2710 mcg
Folate: 619 mcg
Vitamin B12: 663 mcg
Pantothenic acid: 5.88 mg
Phosphorus: 828 mg
Magnesium: 891 mg
Zinc: 41.4 mg
Copper: 4000 mcg
Manganese: 12.4 mg
Selenium: 288 mcg
Water: 156 fl oz (1 gallon + 1 quart)
Alcohol: 0.206 fl oz 2%


Jeremy-I've seen you post this before. I'm curious how you count protein. Where is that 90 grams coming from? Do you count the protein in all you eat? Because so many foods have trace amounts of protein. It seems you would get more than that just from eating a diet rich in whole grains, legumes, beans, fruit, nuts, etc... with some minimal animal sources added. For example, a cup of raw oats actually has 13 grams of protein for its 54 grams of carbs.

Hard to pull off ... how do you mean?

What I meant more specifically was, how did you avoid not eating more? I'm trying to eat 1g of protein/lb right now (~160g) and I have trouble keeping it under 200g!

Would you recommend a similar low-protein/high-carb diet for those trying to cut? I'm getting pretty sick of my protein-heavy macro ratio, and I'm interested in what you have to say.

I really wasn't trying to reach any specific target. I was just eating instinctively.

Honestly, I see all of the debate about high protein, low protein, this fat, that fat, and everything in between ... but in my experience, the only thing that has really been necessary was to count calories.

I use a software called DietPower that adjusts to my metabolism and budgets. So, if it says 1600 calories, that's what I eat ... I don't really concern myself so much if it's x ratio or y ratio. I do try to get a good baseline of leafy green veggies and low calorie fruit, and then the rest is really just looking at how many calories and fitting it in - you can see it in my journal.

As you can also see, if I wanted to have some chips or chocolate or whatever, I did ... as long as it fell within my calories. If I happened to go over 100 calories one day, I'd just go under 100 calories the next day and it would even out.

Jeremy

What I meant more specifically was, how did you avoid not eating more? I'm trying to eat 1g of protein/lb right now (~160g) and I have trouble keeping it under 200g!

Would you recommend a similar low-protein/high-carb diet for those trying to cut? I'm getting pretty sick of my protein-heavy macro ratio, and I'm interested in what you have to say.

Jeremy I've never actually tried cutting back my protein, though back when I started as a teenager the only thing I cared about was carbs...my protein was low and I made great gains, but I'm too scared to try it now :)

Like you, though, for me calories have always been king. I do keep protein high after that but, as long as my calories and protein are where I want them I don't put much thought into fat/carbs.

Honestly, I see all of the debate about high protein, low protein, this fat, that fat, and everything in between ... but in my experience, the only thing that has really been necessary was to count calories.

This is what I've been doing for the last four months. As long as my total calories stays around 1,700 kcals/day, it really doesn't matter what I eat. I allow myself one mildly indulgent thing a day, like maybe toasted white bread with regular peanut butter on it, or maybe a 7UP with lunch or dinner, but so long as my calories stay about that magic number, and I do my cardio and lifting, man... I lean out slowly, but well. I imagine being 140-lbs, I should decrease below 1,700, but I can't and function well at my job. I took my calories down to about 1,500 a long time ago (early on in my stint on this board) and I was completely useless throughout the day. Since then, I've struggled with how to output more calories while taking in a little more so I feel good during the day and maintain a higher, more stable blood sugar level. This makes fat loss a little more challenging, but all I did since being released to train in February (since the impingement in the shoulder, for those who haven't heard me whine about it) was to up the intensity of lifting and be sure to get three LISS bouts in per week. If I do that, the weight seems to come off at about a pound a week. This slower weight loss makes my reward meals on the weekends (remember? I hate "cheat" meal... I think it's a reward meal!) much more reasonable. I can't have gobs of pizza, or McDonald's or a vat of ice cream like I used to when I was more of a cardio fiend. One of these weeks, to shock the system, I'll go back to that for a while, shock my body a bit, eat a little more junky on the reward meal than I normally do, and see what happens.

Anyway... that's a really long-winded way of saying... counting calories works, despite what I've heard many, many people say. Glad to see a respected fitness pro say that... my old trainer thought calorie-counting was bunk, and it turned out to be the best thing that I ever discovered, fitness/diet management wise.

-R


I've also noticed an increase in lean mass on a theoretical caloric deficit! I've been tracking my weight since starting back up in Feb. What I've seen is a decrease in body weight from 146 to 140, and a 3% drop in body fat. Or so. I haven't measured in ages and my measurements are on the "Bluestreak scale", since I'm not a trained pro with those el cheapo calipers. Anyway, I think I've gained a little under 1-lb. of lean mass. I initially thought it was 5-lb. lean mass, but the spreadsheet had an error in it. DOH! :o 0.90-lb. is still great, since I remember in a previous post that Jeremy said some natural guys are lucky to do that much in a year! I did it in five months... kinda cool, even though it's just 'cause I'm a beginner. Me... next to a guy who gets on stage would be like a Pinto drag racing my T/A.

Cool Jeremy. Nah, I'm not gonna spend my time adding up your diet. I was just curious. I'm sure you have everything right, particularly since you tracked with a program. I just know some people who count protein for their animal and dairy sources and think they've counted all they've eaten. I should've realized you'd be more attuned and exacting,

Cheers

I really wasn't trying to reach any specific target. I was just eating instinctively.

Honestly, I see all of the debate about high protein, low protein, this fat, that fat, and everything in between ... but in my experience, the only thing that has really been necessary was to count calories.



Jeremy

You know I basically agree agree. I personally feel better and more energetic on a higher protein diet though I still get plenty of fruits and veggies. And some whole grains. I also can eat more when losing fat than on a higher carb diet. But I certainly think it's possible to lose fat and maintain muscle with less protein. It's just not the best way for me. I think it's very individual.

I might have to try going for a diet consisting of a more general calorie count rather than trying to cram ratios down the hatch. Obviously eating a cup raw sugar and calling it a day wouldn't be the solution, but going for a a more general whole grains and vegetables base with lean meats on top might make my body feel better. I Might just be trying to run on the wrong things my body needs.

Thanks for the great responses everybody. Given me a lot of things to think on. :tu:

I might have to try going for a diet consisting of a more general calorie count rather than trying to cram ratios down the hatch. Obviously eating a cup raw sugar and calling it a day wouldn't be the solution, but going for a a more general whole grains and vegetables base with lean meats on top might make my body feel better. I Might just be trying to run on the wrong things my body needs.

Thanks for the great responses everybody. Given me a lot of things to think on. :tu:

Good luck! Let us know how whatever you decide works for you.

This is what I've been doing for the last four months. As long as my total calories stays around 1,700 kcals/day, it really doesn't matter what I eat. I allow myself one mildly indulgent thing a day, like maybe toasted white bread with regular peanut butter on it, or maybe a 7UP with lunch or dinner, but so long as my calories stay about that magic number, and I do my cardio and lifting, man... I lean out slowly, but well.Me, too, me, too! Every afternoon I suck down a coke...ok, sometimes two :o 280 calories of crap on a 2100/day is not great but the only wall I hit when losing weight is when I decide to stop trying...until then it just flies off forever and now it's quite low. Calorie counting just works.