View Full Version : Fat Loss/Muscle Gain possible on the Uberman Sleep Schedule?


Popinjay
Fri, June 10th, 2005, 05:07 PM
This summer I am going to be on a fat loss regimen consisting of: healthy 6 meal a day diet, 3 days a week weight training, and 30 minutes of cardio every morning. However, I've been wandering around on the net and found something called the Uberman Sleep Schedule. It's how Da Vinci and Thomas Jefferson used to sleep. I am very intrigued with this system and really want to try it out--this summer being the ideal time to do so as I have no school or work. Yet I have concerns about how going on this sleep cycle will affect my ability to lose fat and gain muscle. What do you guys think? Will this be a problem, and why?

For those that don't know what the Uberman Sleep Schedule is I've copy and pasted an entry on it from everything2.com.

Uberman's Sleep Schedule
(thing) by PureDoxyk (9.7 mon) (print) ? 7 C!s Fri Dec 29 2000 at 15:02:28

Sadly, I didn't get around to trying this schedule until my Sophomore year of college. I tell you, I'd give damn near anything to go back to it, but very, very few jobs will accomodate this schedule. For the record, because people always ask, yes, this is the way that Leonardo Da Vinci and Thomas Jefferson often slept. I'll walk you through it.

The Hours. You'll be sleeping for twenty minutes at a time, every four hours, round the clock. When I did it, I took a nap at 8, 4, 12, then 4, 8, and 12 again. This totals a mere two hours of sleep in a twenty-four hour period. As a forewarning, yes, it sucks ass to get used to, but after about two weeks you'll never wanna give it up.

Special General Tips.

You can probably guess this tip, but here it is anyway--DO NOT, under ANY conceivable circumstances, OVERSLEEP. Oversleeping on this schedule in the beginning (you won't oversleep after the beginning, even if you try) is devastating; you'll be exhausted for at least a day. So. Make DAMN SURE to wake up after 20 minutes, and don't skip any naps. Skipping a nap, no matter how long you've been doing this schedule for, will make you tired until you get the next two naps in normally.

Week One Tips.

During the first week, you WILL be tired, but actually I found that kind of fun. Day one and two, you just feel like you haven't slept, and those naps aren't doing you any good because you just toss around for twenty minutes, or, usually on day two, you drop off and then want to kill yourself when the alarm goes off 20 minutes later. Stick with it. Days 3-5, if you like to meditate, now's the time. For one thing, with twenty-two waking hours per day, you're gonna run out of things to do by this time. For another thing, you'll be high as fuck by the end of the first week, as your body adjusts and your mind starts to get this really weird clear-dreaming feeling. If you've ever played with sleep deprivation, you know what high I'm talking about. And no, you won't die on this schedule like you would if you just stopped sleeping or something; in fact, I was really getting the hang of it by day ten. By day twelve, I felt like a million bucks, and continued to feel that way for six more months.

How it Works and Why It Might Work For You.

Okay, over the course of a normal 8-hour sleep, your body gets an accumulated 1.5 hours or so of REM sleep (deep, dreaming sleep). REM sleep is absolutely vital to your mind and body's condition and you will die without it; the other stages of sleep do little more than provide time for the body to rest and grow and heal. On that note, I would not suggest this schedule under any circumstances to someone under 18 or anyone sick with anything--you all need as much sleep as you can get. That said: On this schedule, what you're doing for the first few days that makes you so wasted is depriving your body and brain of REM sleep completely. You don't stay asleep long enough to get there. The brain really, REALLY doesn't like this, but it doesn't take too long before it figures out that you're sleeping regularly, just not for long. So after about 3-5 days (which is as much sleep dep as a normal person can handle), the brain begins its workaround. It starts jumping right into REM sleep as soon as you close your eyes for one of those naps--and you'll know the first time this happens, too; you'll wake up feeling really, really rested. Now, after a few more days your brain gets the hang of the schedule....and now, where most people are getting one-and-a-half hours of REM sleep in 8 hours of sleep, you're getting two full hours of REM. And by week two, you'll notice it, too: here are some of the benefits I noticed, while I was doing it:

* If you have sleep disorders like nightmares, night terrors, mid-sleep choking fits, thrashing, muscle soreness or sleepwalking, this will probably flat-out cure you. I had many of the above, and they all disappeared on me virtually overnight. 20 minutes just isn't enough time to build up for those things.
* If you're tight for time, like I was, it's a godsend. Everbody wondered how I had so much time to screw around in college--they didn't know that I did all my studying at Denny's between my 4a.m. and 8a.m. naps.
* Yes, you'll still dream, and actually my personal occurence] of vivid or lucid dreams went way up when I was on this schedule. But most of the time, especially in the beginning, you won't remember; just sleeping and waking up.
* As far as being tired all the time, NO. No NO no no. I was much less tired after two or three weeks of this than I have ever been, before or since. For one thing, you're going to bed every four hours, so every time you turn around it's time to go to sleep. And after about three weeks to a month, you won't need an alarm clock anymore either--I used to fall asleep at Noon right in the middle of the quad at school, and my eyes would pop right open exactly 20 minutes later.

Okay, even I have to pretend to be adult once in a while, so here it is: I do not know anything--and I doubt many others do either--about the wisdom or effects of living on this schedule for a super-extended period of time, like years. Like I said, I did it for six blissful months without a problem, and about seven friends ended up doing it with me by the middle. (*heh* We used to crash all at once in the Library. People called us the 'Sleeping Herd'.) The books say that Da Vinci and Jefferson did it all their lives, (although Jefferson did it for several weeks at a time, after which he took one day off and slept a full 24 hours). There's speculation, but no hard fact that I've found, regarding Benjamin Franklin and Henry Ford doing so. You may not have as easy a time with this or fall in love with it like I did--keep in mind I'm a night-worshipper and have screwed around extensively with sleep-dep and other sick experiments. There. If that didn't dissuade you, you're ready.

mikazuki
Fri, June 10th, 2005, 06:13 PM
Isn't that what Kramer tried and ended up being mistaken for dead and thrown into the river? :lol

Beware stuff that sounds great in theory but goes against common sense. I've tried the Warrior Diet multiple times and own both books but my metabolism would always slow down.

Skepticon
Fri, June 10th, 2005, 07:22 PM
i think i might want to try this. i always waste so much time just thinking about stupid stuff that i never get everything done. i also sleep way too much. only problem, like you said is that you have a minimum 2 20 minute naps in the middle of work, given an 8 hour day.

any tips on getting started?

Popinjay
Fri, June 10th, 2005, 08:12 PM
i think i might want to try this. i always waste so much time just thinking about stupid stuff that i never get everything done. i also sleep way too much. only problem, like you said is that you have a minimum 2 20 minute naps in the middle of work, given an 8 hour day.

any tips on getting started?

Well I have never done this and only read about it. So I can only direct you to a list of links I found off another website.

* http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/4/15/103358/720
* http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=892542&lastnode_id=124
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep
* http://www.supermemo.com/help/faq/sleep.htm#11512-8550 - Opposing view
* http://polyphasic.blogspot.com/
* http://polysleep.blogspot.com/
* http://www.livejournal.com/users/ubermannequin/
* http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/uberman/ - Email list
* http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=uberman+sleep+schedule&btnG=Google+Search&meta= - Google search

Skepticon
Fri, June 10th, 2005, 10:54 PM
i read through most of those, and after doing so, it seemed like almost everyone stopped after 1 month, and it seemed to me mostly because of the combination of:

A) nothing to do with all that time.

B) extreme disturbance of social life.

also, the two week lead-up time sounds absolutely brutal. in addition, it doesn't seem like anyone trying it was very physically active, certainly not doing heavy lifting 3-4 times a week. merits further *cautious* investigation, i think.

Steve
Sat, June 11th, 2005, 12:33 AM
Just my 2 cents ..............

No way , no how , not me !!!!

Andrew
Sun, June 12th, 2005, 12:32 AM
Sounds nuts.

But, just wondering, since you don't fall asleep the second you get into bed, how do you time 20 minutes??

Kenny
Sun, June 12th, 2005, 02:59 AM
Sounds nuts.

But, just wondering, since you don't fall asleep the second you get into bed, how do you time 20 minutes??

That's the first thing I thought as well. This plan sounds nuts to me. I've pulled a few all nighters in college for term papers and I've had that delirious (sp?) feeling where you start to imagine things. Seems weird now that I'm thinking about it, but I did take 20 minute naps every 3 1/2 to 4 hours while writing, and it did help me regain my thoughts. I could not imagine doing something like this on a regular basis, especially while going through a consistent training program.

JoeSchmo
Sun, June 12th, 2005, 03:41 AM
This plan sounds nuts to me.

Yeah, it sounds nuts because it IS nuts! There is a reason why Kramer was mistaken for dead and thrown into the river :lol:

This plan will never work for the same reason why many people who work the nightshift, even after years of doing it, can't adapt. You have this structure in a portion of your hypothalamus (in the brain) called the suprachiasmatic nucleus that regulates (and even has oscillating time-keeping cells) your daily rhythms and cycles. It even has direct inputs from the visual system that allow the body to coordinate daily rhythms based on the time of day (day vs. night). You can alter your rhythms somewhat, but your body is basically designed to operate its sleep/wake cycle by staying awake for a long period, followed by a long period of sleep...all taking place during a 24 hour cycle. When sleeping, you go through 5 sleep stages that seem to have specific functions...many of these stages are never even reached if you are sleeping for 20 mins at a time.

This business of sleeping a few minutes here and there throughout the day and night will never work. You'll feel tired and run down, and you won't be able to stick to it. If anybody has doubts, I encourage them to try it. You probably won't make it past a month.

Andrew
Sun, June 12th, 2005, 08:28 AM
This business of sleeping a few minutes here and there throughout the day and night will never work. You'll feel tired and run down, and you won't be able to stick to it. If anybody has doubts, I encourage them to try it. You probably won't make it past a month.

Right. Anybody who can fall asleep for a 20 minute nap at any time of the day is obviously exhausted and sleep deprived. Besides, 2 hours of sleep could never possibly be enough, no matter how good the sleep is (which I doubt it would be on this crazy plan), and no matter how awkwardly timed throughout the day it is.

jRS
Sun, June 12th, 2005, 09:09 AM
He did this in college?!..

LarryNC
Sun, June 12th, 2005, 10:01 PM
No way in hell would I do that. :D