anyone?

how much have you all noticed in wieght difference from before the start of taking creatine to after taking creatine?

any noticable difference in muscle size?

talk about your expierence here. again this is for those who are taking this supplement while cutting... not bulking.

anyone?

how much have you all noticed in wieght difference from before the start of taking creatine to after taking creatine?

any noticable difference in muscle size?

talk about your expierence here. again this is for those who are taking this supplement while cutting... not bulking.

Good, I am still waiting to hear someone that had a suceessful cut using creatine. I noticed just a few days ago, in a post someone said creatine added 6 lbs in weight.

... in a post someone said creatine added 6 lbs in weight.

6-lbs.? The technical term for that is bad dieting. I've used creatine, on and off, throughout just about every cut I've ever done - my initial transformation included. I used to cycle it... 2 months on, 1 month off, now I cycle it 3 weeks on, 1 week off.

The only thing it'll do is make you retain a little water. You will notice that your muscles will be puffier - not necessarily harder - while on creatine. They volumize by taking on extra water, so they look bigger, but are not necessarily truly larger. They will deflate a little when you go off it, and you will lose most of the water weight the creatine causes within 3~7 days. I lose creatine-induced water weight very quickly, but I suppose that's because I'm a smaller guy, and therefore have less water to retain. I almost immediately lose 2~4 lbs., likely all water, within a few days of stopping creatine.

Be sure you're drinking a minimum of 1.5-gallons of water per day on creatine. Do not use caffeine within 2 hours (before or after) taking creatine; it is believed that caffeine can negate creatine's enhancement of the ADP/ATP cycle. Creatine will still cause your muscles to retain water regardless of caffeine intake.

That's about all I can tell you. Proper diet matters - not creatine use. A 6-lb. gain due to creatine use is, plain and simple, someone using creatine as an excuse to eat more, as people often think that you must eat more to obtain the maximal benefit of using creatine.

I use it in the hopes that I might maintain or enhance what lean mass I already have. That's all, and since it's so freaking cheap, why not use it?

-R

I added about 10lbs while using creatine. I have now been off of it for almost 3 weeks and still weigh 201. However, this morning I measured and my waist was down 1 inch in size. To my Pre-Creatine measurement. I am not sure what is up with this, as I am not on a bulking diet and I really doubt that I added 10lbs of lean mass. I have noticed that my shirt sleeves are tighter as a result, but I seriously doubt that I added that much lean mass.

Good, I am still waiting to hear someone that had a suceessful cut using creatine. I noticed just a few days ago, in a post someone said creatine added 6 lbs in weight.
Guilty as charged,
My weight jumped up alot when i first started the creatine. about 4 lbs. There was alot of bloat aswell as muscle volume increase that contributed to the weight gain. The 6lb figure was how much i dropped while i thought i was on maintainance and had stopped taking creatine. I consead that there could have been some residule effects off the cutting in the 6lbs but i did stay at the same weight for a good couple of months eating the same calories following that.
The creatine didnt effect the amount of fat that i lost while i was on it though. It just introduced a constant error on the scales. I lost a pretty consistant amount of fat each week.

BlueStreak, I am the total opposite to you as i am 6ft3 with very long limbs. I dont know if that makes the difference

And finally it is a good case of Chinese whispers.
I never said i gained 6lbs. http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showpost.php?p=160522&postcount=2

Wilders

BlueStreak, I am the total opposite to you as i am 6ft3 with very long limbs. I dont know if that makes the difference

In someone your size, I could see 6-lbs. of water weight being held. I've seen myself gain weight to the tune of 4-lbs. of water... but... a solid 6-lb. weight gain, water weight notwithstanding, would in my opinion have nothing to do with creatine and everything to do with diet. I think I just misinterpreted RTE's post. DOH!

-R

thanks for the responses.

so i guess i can expect about a 6 to 10 pound wieght gain from water retention.

so that leads me to my next question... if all creatine does is fill your muscle up with water and doesnt actually create new muscle fiber or whatever its called... then whats the use?

my interest in taking creatine was to promote new muscle growth or at least maitain muslce so as to have that muscle be a contributing factor in upping metabolism and thus burning fat... its kind of a preventive measure on top of max ot..... like most of you all i want to be able to prevent as much muscle loss as i can while cutting.

so again if all that creatine does is shoot water into the muscle fibers then that doesnt sound like it would aid my goal... now does it?... because ne muslce is not being created its only retaining water... or do i have some sort of misunderstanding?

Guilty as charged,
My weight jumped up alot when i first started the creatine. about 4 lbs. There was alot of bloat aswell as muscle volume increase that contributed to the weight gain. The 6lb figure was how much i dropped while i thought i was on maintainance and had stopped taking creatine. I consead that there could have been some residule effects off the cutting in the 6lbs but i did stay at the same weight for a good couple of months eating the same calories following that.
The creatine didnt effect the amount of fat that i lost while i was on it though. It just introduced a constant error on the scales. I lost a pretty consistant amount of fat each week.

BlueStreak, I am the total opposite to you as i am 6ft3 with very long limbs. I dont know if that makes the difference

And finally it is a good case of Chinese whispers.
I never said i gained 6lbs. http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showpost.php?p=160522&postcount=2

Wilders


how did you keep track of your fat loss? you did loose fat ... correct?

granted it was at the same rate as before you started taking creatine.

so that leads me to my next question... if all creatine does is fill your muscle up with water and doesnt actually create new muscle fiber or whatever its called... then whats the use?

Creatine is an amino acid and a natural building block in the production of proteins within the body. It is naturally produced by your body and is found naturally occurring in red meats, fish and milk products.

Creatine benefits you in a couple of ways. By saturating muscle tissue with more than would normally be available, you're supplementing your body's ADP/ATP conversion process. Your body breaks down ATP (triphosphate) into ADP (diphosphate) and as a result, your muscles can do more work and recover more efficiently. The ADP is replenished by removing a phosphate from creatine (or phosphocreatine) to create ATP again. The depleted creatine is now called creatinine and is a waste product. By having more creatine in your muscles, you can replenish your ATP faster and therefore perform athletically with more power and a more easily tapped pool of energy. As creatine assists in protein production, it's obvious therein why you'd want more to be present in your muscles. There are a ton of studies that show how creatine can help athletes requiring quick bursts of energy (swimmers, wrestlers, sprinters, etc). And our contention is that creatine use can also help athletes recover quickly from muscle fatigue after a hard workout in the weight room.

-R

I'm vacationing in two weeks and my bodyfat at that time will be between 10-11%. I wonder if I should go on creatine to fill my muscles a bit? I know it will put on some water weight...will it make me look soft and crappy? I know that after one cheat day I look that way now from all the excess weight. I don't feel tight anywhere...and I'm concerned creatine would do that too. I've taken it in the past, but never while this thin and I'd rather be thin and reasonably "tight" (for me!) than larger and puffy.

so again if all that creatine does is shoot water into the muscle fibers then that doesnt sound like it would aid my goal... now does it?... because ne muslce is not being created its only retaining water... or do i have some sort of misunderstanding?

Creatine monohydrate is a popular new supplement that serves as an energy reserve in muscle cells. Muscular contraction is powered by the breakdown of ATP (adenosine triphosphate) to ADP (adenosine diphosphate). When all the ATP is broken down, creatine phosphate in the muscle donates a phosphate group to ADP, and further energy reactions can occur. Creatine monohydrate is a precursor to creatine phosphate. By supplementing with CM, CP levels in muscle apparently are maximized, and more muscular work can occur, since there are greater energy reserves to use.

Creatine also helps with resistance training by bloating the muscle with creatine rich fluid. This allows for greater leverage and requires the muscle to move less and lift more weight. While this may seem kind of trivial, some researchers today think that one of the stimulating factors of steroid use is water retention. Anabolic steroids may actually work in part because of cellular fluid retention in the muscles. The swelling action and the related stretching of the cells may in and of itself cause a reaction which stimulates the muscle cells to grow. So in some respects creatine might be as good as steroids.

The good: Many people report increasing their lean muscle mass between 6 and 10 lbs while using CM, though gains seem to stop after that point. CM is nontoxic, even in large amounts. The bad: Some people report symptoms including headaches, clenched teeth, and the sound of blood rushing in their ears while using CM.

Creatine's effects on blood pressure are an open question. Since it has the effect of fluid retention in muscle, it might increase blood pressure in the same way high sodium levels do, but this has not been established or refuted.

Creatine is an amino acid and a natural building block in the production of proteins within the body. It is naturally produced by your body and is found naturally occurring in red meats, fish and milk products.

Creatine benefits you in a couple of ways. By saturating muscle tissue with more than would normally be available, you're supplementing your body's ADP/ATP conversion process. Your body breaks down ATP (triphosphate) into ADP (diphosphate) and as a result, your muscles can do more work and recover more efficiently. The ADP is replenished by removing a phosphate from creatine (or phosphocreatine) to create ATP again. The depleted creatine is now called creatinine and is a waste product. By having more creatine in your muscles, you can replenish your ATP faster and therefore perform athletically with more power and a more easily tapped pool of energy. As creatine assists in protein production, it's obvious therein why you'd want more to be present in your muscles. There are a ton of studies that show how creatine can help athletes requiring quick bursts of energy (swimmers, wrestlers, sprinters, etc). And our contention is that creatine use can also help athletes recover quickly from muscle fatigue after a hard workout in the weight room.

-R


my apoligies i ment whats the use of using creatine on a cutting diet... if it doesnt increase muscle mass. i know it will help in your performance... and theoretically in lifting... the more energy you have the more you can lift... so the more muscle you spare or create on a cutting diet... correct?

all i want is for my muscle to either be maintianed or if i can increase a little so i can burn more fat. and from my understaind... or what i originally thought... was that creatine would help.

Creatine monohydrate is a popular new supplement that serves as an energy reserve in muscle cells. Muscular contraction is powered by the breakdown of ATP (adenosine triphosphate) to ADP (adenosine diphosphate). When all the ATP is broken down, creatine phosphate in the muscle donates a phosphate group to ADP, and further energy reactions can occur. Creatine monohydrate is a precursor to creatine phosphate. By supplementing with CM, CP levels in muscle apparently are maximized, and more muscular work can occur, since there are greater energy reserves to use.

Creatine also helps with resistance training by bloating the muscle with creatine rich fluid. This allows for greater leverage and requires the muscle to move less and lift more weight. While this may seem kind of trivial, some researchers today think that one of the stimulating factors of steroid use is water retention. Anabolic steroids may actually work in part because of cellular fluid retention in the muscles. The swelling action and the related stretching of the cells may in and of itself cause a reaction which stimulates the muscle cells to grow. So in some respects creatine might be as good as steroids.

The good: Many people report increasing their lean muscle mass between 6 and 10 lbs while using CM, though gains seem to stop after that point. CM is nontoxic, even in large amounts. The bad: Some people report symptoms including headaches, clenched teeth, and the sound of blood rushing in their ears while using CM.

Creatine's effects on blood pressure are an open question. Since it has the effect of fluid retention in muscle, it might increase blood pressure in the same way high sodium levels do, but this has not been
established or refuted.


thnx... so theoretically if im on creatine while cutting then i can expect most or all of my wieght gain to come from water retention and not lean mass? now this is assuming im cutting cals properly..... getting 500 below maitenance level and my diet is in check.

after that 6 to 10 paound gain... or bloat from water.... then i should expect my wieght to drop because of cutting... dropping from fat loss....like normal. correct?


if creatine retains water.... then how would a body fat device work while on creatine? would it interfer?

my apoligies i ment whats the use of using creatine on a cutting diet... if it doesnt increase muscle mass. i know it will help in your performance... and theoretically in lifting... the more energy you have the more you can lift... so the more muscle you spare or create on a cutting diet... correct?

If you build more lean mass, your body will be burning more calories to support the added muscles.

If you build more lean mass, your body will be burning more calories to support the added muscles.

yeah... but from what i hear so far is that creatine on onset just increases water retention in ones muscle. is this still lean mass creation? sounds like only water creation no new muscle fibers.

how did you keep track of your fat
I am presuming based on the evidence that i had. I kept pretty good notes and recorded my weight along with my Bodyfat percent from tanita scales each week aswell as a caliper test each month to verify the scales.(The Creatine made my bodyfat reading go down on the scales) My strength was allways going up in the gym and at martial arts classes. I was following SGX so there is a good chance that i was doing most things right.
Wilders

did you notice any physical differences besides muslces being a bit more inflated while on creatine?


so it be very helpful for me to get a body fat device while on creatine.


my only trouble spot... or that i consider a trouble spot... is my gut and lower back region... this is where most of my fat that i have left is at. if i take creatine... will this continue to be a problem... or creatine shouldnt hurt this area in any way?

theoretically if my diet is in check.... the fat should come off as normal regardless of creatine ... correct?


im looking for a go ahead from you all considering my situation. if most of you all say or agree that it shouldnt hurt my gut fat region loss then ill continue to use creatine.


if for some reason any of you all think it woudlnt be wise for me to use creatine while im trying to loose gut fat then please indicate so.

did you notice any physical differences besides muslces being a bit more inflated while on creatine? Much easier to get cramp in my foot arches but i am predisposed for the problem. It became almost common place. In general all my muscles seemed to get tighter. This was countered with plenty of static stretching and shed loads of water.
Wilders

if for some reason any of you all think it woudlnt be wise for me to use creatine while im trying to loose gut fat then please indicate so.



Kross..... Here's an opinion for Creatine use while cutting. I've had some success using creatine while cutting. My workout partner has too. I was doing a lot of cardio without the creatine and lifting 4 times a week which caused a lot of muscle loss.

Since then I've eaten more, done less cardio, and added creatine to my diet. Over those 6 weeks I lost more fat (2%) than I have durin any 6 week interval in the 8-9 months I've been cutting. My LBM increased from 174.2lbs to 180.1lbs and my body fat went from 28.1lbs to 24lbs

I get measured again in a few weeks and am expecting similar results. My strength is gaining my fat is going down. I only use the creatine on lifting days and I make sure I have enough food to eat and practice a 40/40/20 diet.

I can't speak for you or anyone else but that seems to be the ingredients that worked for me and my workout partner.

One other thing...... I noticed a much firmer long lasting pump in my muscles and felt much harder. Could just be the hard work and not the creatine! I also wouldn't take it if I missed my morning cardio for some reason (which almost never happened)

thnx jojo.

whats your creatine schedule like?

you said you take only on lifting days... is that like only 3 to 4 days a week? you dont take it on cardio days? what if i have cardio and lifting on the same day? if im taking an EC stack 15 before every lifting session... how should i include the creatine if the creatine has a conflict with taking it 2 hours to close to the caffeine?

Creatine helped me in the cutting phase, but not in the form of weight loss, but I put on some lean mass and lowered my BF also. My weight actually went up by 2 pounds with creatine usage but the structure of my body was better with creatine usage, kind off got me off a lateau also. I was able to increase my lifts and intensity of workout.
I did not go for a big loading phase.. I started with 5 gms in the morning and 5 grms before work out for a period of 7 days and then reduced the intake to about 2 gms morning and 2 gms before workout and it proved beneficial. Did this for 2 months and my body weight increased by 2 pounds but the 2 pounds came off in a few days after i stopped taking creatine. I used to take it every day regardless of lifting or non lifting.
Hope the info helps

thnx jojo.

whats your creatine schedule like?

you said you take only on lifting days... is that like only 3 to 4 days a week? you dont take it on cardio days? what if i have cardio and lifting on the same day? if im taking an EC stack 15 before every lifting session... how should i include the creatine if the creatine has a conflict with taking it 2 hours to close to the caffeine?


I take volumizer pills from Apex that is basically a creatine/glutamine supplement Total is about 6 grams for the day. 10 pills total
4 pre workout (about 45 minutes before) and 6 more split up throughout the day (usually 3 and 3)

I take the pills 4 times per week on my lifting days M, T W, Th

I also do cardio everyday. I take caffeine in the morning and do fasted cardio (HIIT) and then workout at lunch.

I don't know how you would incorporate The ECA stack and Creatine before your workout. I guess my question would be why do you take the EC Stack before lifting? Are you lifting and running in the same workout session?

I sort of look at it from a different perspective than everyone else. This is just my opinion. For 75% of the day I think about cutting. I eat right 6-7 meals per day all clean 40/40/20 For the other 25% of the day I'm thinking of what I have to do to gain muscle which means bigger meals lots of protein and carbs. I go heavier on the PWO meal than any other meal. I also have to eat about 2700-3000 calories per day to lose fat rather than muscle.

My lifting routine is pretty crazy too. I do 1 or 2 muscle groups. One heavy set for each muscle (4 sets of 6) and then I do 6 exercises for each muscle with no rep in between sets. (8 reps) That builds my endurance. After 3 weeks of that I move to 2 heavy sets and 4 supersets. I cycle that every 6 weeks

Any input on how it will make a person look at the end of losing weight? If I take it will I look puffy, even though my muscles are larger...? I know that five lbs of creatine lean mass don't look the same as five lbs of true muscle lean mass...

Any input on how it will make a person look at the end of losing weight? If I take it will I look puffy, even though my muscles are larger...? I know that five lbs of creatine lean mass don't look the same as five lbs of true muscle lean mass...


I haven't had any experience with looking puffy at all. The only thing I noticed since my weight actually went up was that my waist was smaller, my veins were showing more and I feel stronger. :D My workout partner is about 8% body fat and just cycled off of it. He looks ripped ,not puffy. It may be different for someone with higher body fat ....i honeslty don't know.

The effects of creatine are of marginal importance when compared to proper nutrition and a good lifting program. Worrying that it will make you "puffy" or inhibit fat loss is a waste of time. Get yourself on a strict diet and excercise routine and have some patience.

Re-read Rtestes post - the purpose of creatine usage is to keep a constant supply available to the muscles to aid in recovery time.

I haven't had any experience with looking puffy at all. The only thing I noticed since my weight actually went up was that my waist was smaller, my veins were showing more and I feel stronger. :D My workout partner is about 8% body fat and just cycled off of it. He looks ripped ,not puffy. It may be different for someone with higher body fat ....i honeslty don't know.Hmm, I may have to take it for a couple of weeks...just load up and forget. I've made great progress and I'm on track to my vacation weight and overall appearance, but I'm looking to tweak it, and if I could throw on the "pseudo" five lbs of muscle look, it could be of help. When I first did creatine back in 1996 I put on 12 lbs in 14 days. My diet was aggressive though and I was getting tons of rest, plus had come off a mild layoff, but the stuff was awesome. I was totally stoked.The effects of creatine are of marginal importance when compared to proper nutrition and a good lifting program. I guess marginal is subjective, but definitely of inferior importance; exercise and diet are always the first things to get right :eat:

i hear ya.... diet, excersize etc. are extremly imporant.

i just need a good body fat analyzer to monitor whats most imporant.

those omni ones.... are they okay?

OK I've been taking creatine now for 11 days and continuing to lose fat. My weight hit a trough of 169.8 or so and is now a couple of pounds heavier, even though I've continued to diet. I am thinking my weight without the creatine would have been 167ish and the creatine has put on around 4 lbs of weight on me. My strength has actually started to go up a tiny bit, which is great, and my muscles do seem a bit larger, so I'm a touch thinner with a touch more size, so it's worked out well.

I was short on time so did the full 4 X 5/day for five days to load and now on 10/day.