So i was thinking to myself the other day "self why do countless situps and other "core" workouts when i see no results. should i just do these when i get down to the 10% or so body fat?"

ok in reality its just kind of a debate a friend and i were having. basically how important to you guys is the core.

i myself rate it higher than any other area on the body... but thats just me.

also i tend to like doing abs every time i work out. good or bad? discuss. :D :eek:

I don't know your BF%, but I'm guessing you arn't 10% or below. If I'm right, then you've probably got fat covering the developing muscle up.

Most of us have fairly developed abs. They're just covered in fat. That isn't to say that everyone has rock solid abs. They're still a muscle. They still need workouts, and there should definately be a difference in 6 months time between someone who has done abs every workout and someone who hasn't, provided both are at similar height, weight, and BF%.

I like to think weight lifting is a psychological test of endurance. See how long you can go to get what you want. It's a hard fight for many, but using John as an example, it pays off.

ya basically i'm big into golf and my summer job is very taxing physically... is it bad to work them out daily? or even twice daily?

and i have no idea what my bf % is i think it'd make me depressed :(

but it is something i'm :read: about here to fix or atleast help it along.

If you plays sports, it's essential to have a strong core. Swimmers, especially.

You should keep at your ab workouts. If you aren't already, try doing a few heavy weight exercises with them. Then do your regular exercises.

Unless you do full body work-outs, you should only do abs once or twice a week, giving them time to rest and recover. They're a muscle (group...) just like any other.

Also, try isometric exercises such as the Stomach Vacuum; look for it at: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exerprint.php?Real=%3C%3D+7&Name=&MainMuscle=Abdominals&Isolation=&Equip=&order=Name

I just thought I'd chime in and say the:

The ABS have nothing to do with the core.

The Abs are global muscles that perform spinal flexion and rotation. They are not effective in supporting and stabilising the spine. Thats why many people have back pain. They do heaps of ab exercises and the core stability muscles (Transverse Abdominis and Multifidis) become deconditioned leading to the abs unsuccessfully trying to support the spine.

Its all explained in the below thread:

http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=1038

Marcus :tucool:

thanks for that link :D

i was mainly asking about abs because i was under the impression that the abs healed faster than other muscles and thus it was ok to work them a bit more often then say your biceps. i do alot of back work aswell to make sure it stays strong to complete the core if you will.

just curious on the abs ;)

I know exactly what you mean. I have a hard time getting psyched about crunches when even in high school I never say my abs and I was in great shape. I just have to tell myself that I will see results quicker if I already have them solid while the fat burns off than to wait until my BF% is low enough to see them.

ya essentially the extend of my "core" workout is i get on a machine i dont' know the name of (flame me if you must) put the pulley all the way down and stand on one foot and bring the weight from bottom right (if on right foot) to top right 10 times. then switch it around and do it on the left foot. i do that set 1 more time then move it half way up and do the same thing except across the body (2x) then all the way up and do top to bottom.

what i was told by my old personal trainer was that this exercise would help my core stablizing muscles to help my golf swing..

but are you saying those aren't the kind of exercises i should do for my core as you define it? :flex:

ya essentially the extend of my "core" workout is i get on a machine i dont' know the name of (flame me if you must) put the pulley all the way down and stand on one foot and bring the weight from bottom right (if on right foot) to top right 10 times. then switch it around and do it on the left foot. i do that set 1 more time then move it half way up and do the same thing except across the body (2x) then all the way up and do top to bottom.

what i was told by my old personal trainer was that this exercise would help my core stablizing muscles to help my golf swing..

but are you saying those aren't the kind of exercises i should do for my core as you define it? :flex:

I have no idea what exercise you are referring to there. :confused:

The best core exercises to do (no doubt) are in the thread I linked to from above. I know my drawings are crap, sorry. Take them to the most respected personal trainer or physical therapist you know and without doubt they will tell you that those exercises are the correct and best way to strengthen your core. Anyone that tells you to work your abs has no idea. Its the question I give friends when they are looking for a trainer. If they get it right they are decent, if not, they are a waste of money. :nod:

Marcus :tucool:

dah lets see lemme try and explain this again...

at our gym there is the butteryfly machine? i think thats what it is called.. where you grab one handle from each side and x-cross infront of you... thats the machine im' talking about... at my old gym there was one specifically for this kind of workout i'm talking about..

the arm rotates up and down 180 degrees....

where is the talking out of my ass smiley? :D

/edit i do ALOT of those ball exercises you have on that link already.. i learned them from the same dude at my old gym

dah lets see lemme try and explain this again...

at our gym there is the butteryfly machine? i think thats what it is called.. where you grab one handle from each side and x-cross infront of you... thats the machine im' talking about... at my old gym there was one specifically for this kind of workout i'm talking about..

the arm rotates up and down 180 degrees....

where is the talking out of my ass smiley? :D

/edit i do ALOT of those ball exercises you have on that link already.. i learned them from the same dude at my old gym

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong but are you talking about cable crossovers.
In the link they call them cable stnading fly but same thing. Looking from your other explanation I think I'm wrong. They might have it listed on the site I linked to.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/CBStandingFly.html

Marcus :tucool:

yes yes yes!! thats the machine!

ok what i'm doing though is taking 1 handle moving it all the way down and standing on the 1 foot closest to the machine and taking the weight from bottom to top then turning around for other side and repeating that twice at each hieght, bottom/mid/top

while trying to take belly button and touch my back with it...

yes yes yes!! thats the machine!

ok what i'm doing though is taking 1 handle moving it all the way down and standing on the 1 foot closest to the machine and taking the weight from bottom to top then turning around for other side and repeating that twice at each hieght, bottom/mid/top

while trying to take belly button and touch my back with it...

ok so your not actually doing a proper cable crossover, but doing it on one leg to reduce stability requiring your core to work. This is a core stability exercise, its a dynamic movement while maintaining a neutral curvature of the spine requiring isomtric contractions of your core stability muscles. I've never seen it done like this before but I cant see why it wouldnt work. Just make sure that you know how to contract your TA/MF muscles and that you are not using your abs during the exercise. The TA/MF muscles should be doing all the work supporting your spine. :tu:

Your trainer has steered you in the right direction, because its good for golf because it mimicks the action while you learn to contract your core muscles keeping your spine supported during the swing.

Marcus :tucool:

awesome glad i am doing it right :) i still do the ab ball stuff i just do that thing i talked about when i'm doing a hardcore ab day i throw that in too really make me want to lay down when i get home ;)

try it out sometime its actually pretty good!

Hi guys,

interesting discussion here. Since I am in to golf to this made me pretty interested. I have tried to do dome exercises in the past to improve my golfing swing abilities, but then mainly normal stomach and back exercises. Are you saying that this does not necessarily make sence? Should I rather try to make these core exercises if I want to improve my golfing muscels? And do you have any other good exercises for Golf?

Regards
Mattias