I've got Glutamine coming in the mail (400 Grams of Powder from Prolab) and was wondering when and what amount to take? i usually workout early-afternoon following a 400-500 cal breakfast w/ whey. I then digest a PWO shake w/ whey. Could the Glutamine just go in the shake? Supposedly its tasteless....i hope.

warning: Glutamine is a very highly debated suppliment in the bb industry - no one can prove that it works.

with that said, assuming it works:
+take it PWO and before bed (most traditional uses). It would actually have a better success rate if it were mixed with your shake, yes
+although you can always throw some in for breakfast too. its up to you.

wh0areume just takes glutamine to add some flavor to his diet. :lol:

My Glutamine Select (http://www.dpsnutrition.net/product_information.asp?number=BV032&back=yes&dept=1425&last=1425) is grape flavored. :jumping: Though at this point, I'm only using it for the BCAA's, since I had a container and a half. Glutamine funds have been converted to citrulline funding. :D

ok, i finally found Kino's old post (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showpost.php?p=129902&postcount=4) that i will always remember. it's worth reading if you want to know more about what the glutamine is actually doing. (assuming correct info)

http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showpost.php?p=129902&postcount=4

And yes, glutamine peptide has a ... unique ... taste. although, i have gotten used to it finally. :D

Look up some of Layne Norton's stuff on the BB.com site for yourself. Regardless of how many natural bodybuilders there may be that want to try and argue the point...if there is one of them that also works in a lab all day, and is working on their PhD in BioChem, and Nutritional Science, I'll consider what they have to say. Trophies don't mean that somebody understands bio chemistry. I chose not to comment on peptides, out of respect for our sponsers. Until then...protein is cheeper than glutamine. Everybodies free to spend their money where they want.

theres an amazing amount of great info on bb.com. everyone should lurk that site; i wish more of them would come post over here.

personally, i take kent glutamine peptide PWO. i dont know if it works, but it's cheap, and if it gives me any benifit AT ALL, then it's worth it to me.

I just purchased some more glutamine! :D

See above... :D

Other than protein, the only other two powdered supplements I believe in are glutamine and creatine. I take both straight out of a teaspoon and wash it down with something like orange juice if I'm looking for an insulin spike, or just plain old water. I only purchase AST supplements from DPS Nutrition (excellent discount prices that can't be beat). The reason is AST doesn't promote snake oil supplements, only the ones backed by science and results.

AST is in the supplement business just like every other manufacturer. At one point the only products that I was buying were from Beverly and AST. I've recently added Primaforce, and some bulk amino powders from Fast400 to that list.
Manufacturers and retailers will tell you whatever will sell product...AST and Beverly included, though they do have higher quality products to offer. All of that being said...manufacturers will use what available resourses there are to promote product use. I've been doing some research on my own since having the glutamine info referenced above presented. I've scoured Pub Med (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?DB=pubmed) and have yet to find any significant studies on orally administered glutamine vs another nitrogen source. The question of glutamine effectiveness was even presented on the Bev board, and got little creditable supporting evidence from some of the top natural pros in the game. Roger and Sandy (Beverly's owners) didn't respond at all.
All of that being said...just for kicks and giggles, one might want to try bumping their protein intake by another 30-40g per day vs glutamine, and compare the results.
Also...evidence presented by "whoever" questioning glutamine effectiveness, benefits nobody but the people spending their money on it...so is probably as unbiased you're going to get. :nod:

AST is in the supplement business just like every other manufacturer. At one point the only products that I was buying were from Beverly and AST. I've recently added Primaforce, and some bulk amino powders from Fast400 to that list.
Manufacturers and retailers will tell you whatever will sell product...AST and Beverly included, though they do have higher quality products to offer. All of that being said...manufacturers will use what available resourses there are to promote product use. I've been doing some research on my own since having the glutamine info referenced above presented. I've scoured Pub Med (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?DB=pubmed) and have yet to find any significant studies on orally administered glutamine vs another nitrogen source. The question of glutamine effectiveness was even presented on the Bev board, and got little creditable supporting evidence from some of the top natural pros in the game. Roger and Sandy (Beverly's owners) didn't respond at all.
All of that being said...just for kicks and giggles, one might want to try bumping their protein intake by another 30-40g per day vs glutamine, and compare the results.
Also...evidence presented by "whoever" questioning glutamine effectiveness, benefits nobody but the people spending their money on it...so is probably as unbiased you're going to get. :nod:

1) What natural pro's on the Bev board are you reffering to. I know some of them.

2) If a natural bodybuilder with average genetics dramatically improves his/her physique through proper training, nutrition, and high level supplementation (including aggressive use of glutamine) I would listen to them as to what works and what doesn't, opposed to the chemically enhanced IFBB pro, a research scientist, laboratory study, or biochemistry major.

Not debating you on this issue, and I respect your viewpoints and opinions. Just trying to make sense of the topic being discussed. I have used glutamine for many years, on different schedules, different doseages, and various methods of timing during a pre-contest phase. When the body is in a hyper sensitive state (pre-contest or severe dieting) it becomes very responsive and reactive to whatever is injested. For me, glutamine is one of these supplements. I too, use AST and Beverly (they had a great pharmacuetical grade glutamine) but would not dare be without my Glutamine Select!

Great discussion. Just giving everyone a different side of the issue from a different perspective.

1) What natural pro's on the Bev board are you reffering to. I know some of them.


If I remember correctly, Ray (ETX) was the only one who really chimed in on the discussion. Even at that...he was referrring to the benefits of glutamine during pre contest dieting, along the same line as you've mentioned. Actually, I'm not sure if Ray has his pro card or not...I was actually referring to the fact that none of the pros chimed in on the thread.
I'm not a scientist...But Layne did throw enough out on the table for me to be looking at what I perceived as results vs what may actually be happening. IE: Are the results really from glutamine supplemenation, or are they from increased nitrogen/glucose levels? :confused:
Where this would be difficult to research on our own, (mainly because if we're seeing results and we're used to a particular supplement regimen) I personally will consider evidence as to what the body is capable of utilizing and what it is not, when that information is coming from somebody actually working in that field. Let's just take a quick look at what's happening though, and why everybody will probably continue to take glutamine orally...
For the competitive natural bodybuilder who has worked many years to achieve their level of physique, they've most likely followed a certain regimen to get there. They're following the contest schedule, and their training and diet is based on how much time there is until the next show. Now of course everybody wants to come in better than they did at their last show...so do you think that they might even consider making what would be a dramatic change in their regimen by dropping glutamine, after they've been using it for years? Now who told them to use glutamine, and who told that person...and so on up the line? The simple fact here is that "competitive bodybuilders" are not going to stop using glutamine, because they aren't going to take a chance that it might change how they come in for a show. Now where does the recreational lifter get the majority of their information? Of course they look at others that have been doing this longer, and mimic what they see...so now we have newbies using glutamine as well, even though they really don't have a clear understanding of what it does or doesn't do. (actually the person they're mimicing doesn't either)
Now for me...I'm not going to get to compete this year like I would've like too. I'm simply having too many problems with my hip implant lately, and it's greatly effecting my leg routines and development. :( So if I stop using glutamine, it's not going to play with my head, and I can see how I progress going forward. I'd rather take the money I was spending on glutamine, and throw it into BCAA's or citrulline, or both.
Speaking of BCAA's...do you think that the Glutamine Select is helping because of the glutamine, or could it simply be the increased BCAA's? Where you're a Masters Division competitor...it may be safe to say (and I understand) that you won't be taking a chance on finding out. No disrespect intended.
For me...I'm looking at what the information says about what the body can and can't utilize. Could it be that glutamine is nothing more than bodybuilding's version of the lucky rabbits foot? Does anybody have solid proof in light of the information that Mr. Norton presents, to show otherwise? :confused:

If I remember correctly, Ray (ETX) was the only one who really chimed in on the discussion. Even at that...he was referrring to the benefits of glutamine during pre contest dieting, along the same line as you've mentioned. Actually, I'm not sure if Ray has his pro card or not...I was actually referring to the fact that none of the pros chimed in on the thread.
I'm not a scientist...But Layne did throw enough out on the table for me to be looking at what I perceived as results vs what may actually be happening. IE: Are the results really from glutamine supplemenation, or are they from increased nitrogen/glucose levels? :confused:
Where this would be difficult to research on our own, (mainly because if we're seeing results and we're used to a particular supplement regimen) I personally will consider evidence as to what the body is capable of utilizing and what it is not, when that information is coming from somebody actually working in that field. Let's just take a quick look at what's happening though, and why everybody will probably continue to take glutamine orally...
For the competitive natural bodybuilder who has worked many years to achieve their level of physique, they've most likely followed a certain regimen to get there. They're following the contest schedule, and their training and diet is based on how much time there is until the next show. Now of course everybody wants to come in better than they did at their last show...so do you think that they might even consider making what would be a dramatic change in their regimen by dropping glutamine, after they've been using it for years? Now who told them to use glutamine, and who told that person...and so on up the line? The simple fact here is that "competitive bodybuilders" are not going to stop using glutamine, because they aren't going to take a chance that it might change how they come in for a show. Now where does the recreational lifter get the majority of their information? Of course they look at others that have been doing this longer, and mimic what they see...so now we have newbies using glutamine as well, even though they really don't have a clear understanding of what it does or doesn't do. (actually the person they're mimicing doesn't either)
Now for me...I'm not going to get to compete this year like I would've like too. I'm simply having too many problems with my hip implant lately, and it's greatly effecting my leg routines and development. :( So if I stop using glutamine, it's not going to play with my head, and I can see how I progress going forward. I'd rather take the money I was spending on glutamine, and throw it into BCAA's or citrulline, or both.
Speaking of BCAA's...do you think that the Glutamine Select is helping because of the glutamine, or could it simply be the increased BCAA's? Where you're a Masters Division competitor...it may be safe to say (and I understand) that you won't be taking a chance on finding out. No disrespect intended.
For me...I'm looking at what the information says about what the body can and can't utilize. Could it be that glutamine is nothing more than bodybuilding's version of the lucky rabbits foot? Does anybody have solid proof in light of the information that Mr. Norton presents, to show otherwise? :confused:

Thanks for your post. My question being where is the evidence and proof directed towards the efficacy of citrulline malate, or creatine, or B6, or l-arginine, or a particular training variance and routine, or for that matter mom's chicken soup? One of my fav supplements is Beverly's Muscle Synergy, however I know of many who don't respond at all. Some recent studies (or maybe not so recent) are claiming that arginine taken pre-workout lowers test levels. Have I experienced this with Muscle Synergy? I can say with absolute certainty - NO WAY JOSE.

As a natural competitor with limited funds, I must purchase the supplements which work, instead of taking chances with snake oil products, or bunny hopping from the latest craze to the next craze the following month. Does this mean I will never use citrulline? Not at all. I measure a supplements worth by getting feedback from my body... How I look at a particular time frame, how I feel, how I am recovering, fat loss, and overall health.


Didn't quite understand your question regarding why I wouldn't be finding out about bcaa's/glutamine so forgive me. One discovery I have made between both supps, is that they work best in harmony, and do an even better job with the inclusion of LCAR or ALCAR.

One of the best thermogenic/energy protocols I've tried (and this was something I had read about years ago) was ingesting 60gr of l-glutamine on an empty stomach before training. What was the mechanism involved? I don't have a clue, and it may be disputed by all the studies, but as I stated earlier, I must go with works for me and which has been documented in my nutrition and training journals as effective, regardless of what a particular guru is spouting.

Good luck in your quest for getting on the stage eventually. We all have our particular roadblocks, but it all boils down to a matter of will.

You're absolutely right...we all find out what works for us. Muscle Synergy is my absolute favorite product available on the market. And while I've got two bottles on hand, I've had to decide that it's just not going to be able to stay in the budget, though I do stick with Bev for the majority of my other supplements. Budgeting has me sticking to the basics, though I am giving the citrulline/arginine combo a shot. I hate how I feel when I come off of Muscle Synergy, so I'm keeping the arginine in at that level.
You do have me curious though...I've seen you over in the Avant board, but I don't believe I've ever seen you post on the Bev board. Who'd you get your pro card with?

Back to the glutamine...There's plenty of evidence on the effects of orally administered Creatine, B6, L-Arginine, and yes...Citrulline as well. Glutamine's not on that list, but placebo effects have been shown to work in other studies, so why not. As far as "guru's", which I think you may be referring to Layne...Ya know...If Matt Shepley designates somebody as the goto person for supplement questions on the main page for his organization...that says alot.

You're absolutely right...we all find out what works for us. Muscle Synergy is my absolute favorite product available on the market. And while I've got two bottles on hand, I've had to decide that it's just not going to be able to stay in the budget, though I do stick with Bev for the majority of my other supplements. Budgeting has me sticking to the basics, though I am giving the citrulline/arginine combo a shot. I hate how I feel when I come off of Muscle Synergy, so I'm keeping the arginine in at that level.
You do have me curious though...I've seen you over in the Avant board, but I don't believe I've ever seen you post on the Bev board. Who'd you get your pro card with?

Back to the glutamine...There's plenty of evidence on the effects of orally administered Creatine, B6, L-Arginine, and yes...Citrulline as well. Glutamine's not on that list, but placebo effects have been shown to work in other studies, so why not. As far as "guru's", which I think you may be referring to Layne...Ya know...If Matt Shepley designates somebody as the goto person for supplement questions on the main page for his organization...that says alot.


An ongoing debate in the fitness field will be "what is effective, what works in nutrition, supplementation and exercise." Because we are dealing with an imperfect science, nothing will ever be scribed in stone.

I am a pro with the NABF and USBF

I am a pro with the NABF and USBF

THAT'S INCREDIBLE!...We're very fortunate to have somebody of your caliber contributing to the board. Any pics, so we can put a face to the name? Future contest plans? I know that I saw you're competing in the Masters Division, but what's your contest weight? How much does your off season diet differ from on season?

Just thought I'd revive this one...I posted the following question on the Bev Board regarding Glutamine Select...

posted Wed May 25 2005 02:32 AM
I've gotta ask...
How do you know that your body is benefiting from the glutamine, and not the increased BCAA intake?

posted Thu May 26 2005 06:10 AM
quote:
Originally posted by klipsch:
I've gotta ask...
How do you know that your body is benefiting from the glutamine, and not the increased BCAA intake?

BUMP...Veteran competitors?...Pro's?

No responses...Interesting :confused:

An ongoing debate in the fitness field will be "what is effective, what works in nutrition, supplementation and exercise." Because we are dealing with an imperfect science, nothing will ever be scribed in stone.


Agree. Although I do think the body of evidence as to creatine's efficacy is much more convincing that that for glutamine.


I am a pro with the NABF and USBF

Very cool!