Okay, Im 5'9" and ive been trying to cut for a while now. Started back at 187 and 27% BF and now im 150 15.5% BF. Ive lost ALOT of muscle. This is mostly due to the fact that my diet was WAY out of whack where I would have maybe 1400cal a day when my BMR was 2800 with activity (university can do that to u). I do regular weights and 40min cardio on non weight-days. I felt ive done okay. But here is where the questions arises.

I went to the local gym where I met a personal trainer there. I was talking to him about how much muscle I lost and other weight-lifting stuff and we got into the argument of whether someone can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time which was I was dreaming of doing considering my low weight and moderate BF. I said it was impossible and he responds by saying that hes been doing it for 7 years successfully. I tell him I want to be 155 and 9% in 4 months and he says its possible. So we walk through what he would do if i were his client. He calculates my BMR at 1800, then adds my activity level 1000. So BMR is now 2800 and then tells me to add another 500 for muscle gain. So i need 3300 cal a day. I tell him thats a bulking diet and he says not entirely.

He then takes me a on a wieghtlifting routine he would do on a client. We did chest and back. We would do one set on the machine (say flys) do 10(or 15)-failure reps: meaning we would to 15reps, then ask me for 4 more which were almost impossible to do. We would not rest and go to the next machine (t-Rows for back) and follow the same rep routine. Then to the lat pulldowns, the pushups, then incline benchpress. All this was done 3 times, so 3 sets total with maybe 3 minute rest in between sets. By the end I was out of breath and sweating. He told me that with this, ill burn a lot of calories. Along with this, he told me to do regular cardio for 30-40mins. By the way, everything on my upperbody is still sore 2 days after which never happened to me before.

His reasoning is that you put on muscle and that muscle burns fat. What do ya'll think?

Btw, do you think I should cut or bulk at 150 15% BF? I think I should cut to 140lbs where ill be 10% BF, then bulk.

I said it was impossible and he responds by saying that hes been doing it for 7 years successfully. I tell him I want to be 155 and 9% in 4 months and he says its possible. So we walk through what he would do if i were his client. He calculates my BMR at 1800, then adds my activity level 1000. So BMR is now 2800 and then tells me to add another 500 for muscle gain. So i need 3300 cal a day. I tell him thats a bulking diet and he says not entirely.

His reasoning is that you put on muscle and that muscle burns fat. What do ya'll think?

He is sorta right. I disagree with the 3300 cal, I would have thought 2400-2800 might have done the job. He is looking at you, I am not. 150-160 lbs at 5'9" is right at a good weight for someone, if they build the muscles. It sounds like he is talking about a good circuit routine that could do the job.

I'll say this one more time for anyone who hasn't heard me say this before.It is possible to gain muscle while cutting fat.I am living proof.Since 2/2/05 I have carefully dieted,weight trained 4 days per week using an upper/lower body split.My cardio consists of a 2.2 mile walk at 4 mph. done at least 5 times per week.Sometimes if I feel the need I do the same cardio 2X daily.My body weight has dropped from 200lbs. to 165 lbs.I have NOT lost any strength in ANY excercises.As a matter of fact all my lifts have increased although very slowly.You do the math.
I forgot to mention height,-6'1"

I don't think it's impossibe either. The reason people cut is to reduce fat optimally. The reason people bulk is to gain muscle optimally. If you are losing fat and gaining muscle, then you aren't doing either one optimally. That's not to say it's bad, you just won't see results on either side as quickly.

Personally, I've decided that when I finish my current cut, I'm off of this whole cutting and bulking thing. I'm going to find my maintenance level, where I don't gain body fat, and stay there indefinitely. I never want to have to cut again. :mad:

It can be done- just have to be totally, 100% dialed in, have timing down, etc. Perhaps not as rapid as a cut then bulk but it can be done. From what I know of Swolecat's plan- it looks like he can attest to it working.

It's entirely possible. I know many who've done it. I haven't myself, but I did at one point gain 12 lbs of muscle and only 1 pound of fat. Calorie consumption is individual. I'm not sure what would be appropriate for you.

He is sorta right. I disagree with the 3300 cal, I would have thought 2400-2800 might have done the job. He is looking at you, I am not. 150-160 lbs at 5'9" is right at a good weight for someone, if they build the muscles. It sounds like he is talking about a good circuit routine that could do the job.

I don't understand how you can just say that's a good weight for somebody. Each body is different depending on muscle and fat. 170 or even 180 at a low bodyfat is entirely fine for 5'9. It wouldn't be huge. Someone might be lean at 145 without too much muscle but defined and be happy with how they look.

Im with you guys. I wanna cut 10lbs off right now and go to 140lbs but im afraid that 140 is too small for someone whos 5'9" . Plus, at 140 ill be 10%BF. Is it easier to bulk or cut? What do you think I should do ?

Im with you guys. I wanna cut 10lbs off right now and go to 140lbs but im afraid that 140 is too small for someone whos 5'9" . Plus, at 140 ill be 10%BF. Is it easier to bulk or cut? What do you think I should do ?

I'd recommend just eating at maintenence and lifting hard. See if you can lose a little fat and gain a little muscle at the same time. If your results are too slow for your tastes, you can focus on one or the other. 140 is fairly small for 5'9. However, the muscle/fat ratio for weight added during a bulk is better when starting at low bodyfat (for physiological reasons). So, it's your call. Don't worry about looking too small if you do decide to cut first. Think long-term.

Is it easier to bulk or cut?
Whoa, what a loaded question!

Cutting is harder in a very straightforward way. It's hard to restrict your calories, eat less carbs, more veggies and all that. What's harder is not feeling 100% strong in the gym. On the other hand, it is easier to stay focused on a cutting diet because you know that slip ups may potentially result in less progress.

Bulking, on the other hand, is harder in a more psychological sort of way. It's hard to not cheat when you know that you're going to be increasing weight anyway. It's much easier to justify an occasional unplanned cheat just because you're already eating a lot of calories. However, it feels great to be bursting with energy every time you hit the gym.

If I had to pick one or the other, I'd say that I'm better at cutting than bulking, but I enjoyed bulking more.

Well, doing the math, you lost 10lbs of lean body mass. I suspect that was not ALL muscle. LBM is everything BUT fat, so that includes water weight, etc. If you took your bf% readings (assuming they were correct) at the beginning of your weight loss, some of it may have been water- at least a couple lbs.

I still think you have some newbie gains to hit up. I stopped cutting a few weeks ago (at 11%bf) to eat more, and kick start my metabolism again. I've made gains in all my lifts, and I plan to cut down again. I'm pretty lean as it is, but I was getting sick of lifting hard and not gaining size. But now that it's summer, I gotta have the abs. Don't worry about being thin- you will feel better about yourself being lean and making gains with lower bf.

I'd recommend just eating at maintenence and lifting hard. See if you can lose a little fat and gain a little muscle at the same time. If your results are too slow for your tastes, you can focus on one or the other. 140 is fairly small for 5'9. However, the muscle/fat ratio for weight added during a bulk is better when starting at low bodyfat (for physiological reasons). So, it's your call. Don't worry about looking too small if you do decide to cut first. Think long-term.

Hmmm. Okay. I really feel like cutting down to 140lbs and then bulking. Determination and honesty to diet isn't really a problem for me so I think its possible to drop 10lbs of fat in a month. But do you think its possible to put on 14lbs of muscle in 3 months?

I'm with ya 100% Slush Puppy.This cutting sh-t is tough.But all in all,I'll be a happy old guy at the beach sportin' a 6 pack! Kinda makes it all worthwhile. By the way, I mean old guy in the literal sense.

He is sorta right. I disagree with the 3300 cal, I would have thought 2400-2800 might have done the job. He is looking at you, I am not. 150-160 lbs at 5'9" is right at a good weight for someone, if they build the muscles. It sounds like he is talking about a good circuit routine that could do the job.

I agree with Rtestes..... 3300 calories seems like a lot I do a very similar routine only with no rest in between sets other than to move to the next exercise. I need closer to 4000 calories to gain weight and I stay around 2800-3000 per day. I've had a lot of recent success building muscle and burning fat this way. Your trainer seems like he has a pretty good idea of what he's talking about

I have to agree with your trainer. I have been trying to lose the extra lbs that I gained in college for three years. the results have been great but I still am not were I would like to be. I have just recently started to really concentrate on the specifics of my diet and MAN what a difference. On my first bulking cycle (which is easy for me, I'm 5'7" and stocky, solid except 'round the middle :D ) but I actually gained noticeable muscle and jump myself out of a fat loss palteau. Now if I can just get my cutting cycle set, i think that six pack ripped look will not be far away.

I already get, "Man, how did you get so big so fast?" from guys in the gym. It is basically in part to a circuit or super-set workout like the trainer told you to do. and if you are still hurting two days later, you are doing it right :tu:

this stuff isn't exact science for all body types, so i would say try it and see what happens for a few weeks. It's kinda like a haircut, if you don't like the results after a few weeks (6-8wks) you change it.

Just my $.02.

Hmmm. Okay. I really feel like cutting down to 140lbs and then bulking. Determination and honesty to diet isn't really a problem for me so I think its possible to drop 10lbs of fat in a month. But do you think its possible to put on 14lbs of muscle in 3 months?

Thats exactly what I'm doing ( cutting till 140 - so I'm at 10% or lower , prob gonna be lower :D ) then gonna bulk with SUP2 with help from swolecat. If you havent already maybe check out swoles site , his SGX diet and SUP2 bulking program is prob. just what your lookin for.

whats swoles site?

whats swoles site?
Swolecats site is "vizualxcellence.com" or just go to gotswole.com and I'm pretty sure it has a link that directs you to it. Check out my journal I post under "steve" on his site. :gl:

I remember reading a while ago that rats will continue to gain muscle even when on a starvation diet (= lower than their overall caloric needs) if they are training muscles. Now, we're not rats, but apparently we have more in common with them genetically and physiologically than we'd care to admit, and the author of whatever I was reading said that if you want to avoid muscle loss while dieting (or gain muscle), then you must continue weight training even while running a caloric deficit to lose fat.

It seems your trainer and plenty of the people who have posted here would confirm that.