I've been getting conflicting answers on an issue I'm trying to deal with.
I've read that the indicator of microtrauma is soreness. I'm cool with pain and it never gets on top of me.
Recently, I'm being told that soreness is a meaningless indicator of microtrauma. I take my last set to muscle failure, every time. I was getting concerned that I'm making less progress since I have trouble making myself sore before I deplete my stored energy.
So, what's the scoop?

Recently, I'm being told that soreness is a meaningless indicator of microtrauma. I take my last set to muscle failure, every time. I was getting concerned that I'm making less progress since I have trouble making myself sore before I deplete my stored energy.

Soreness has nothing to do with growth or quality of exercise. Do a google on DOMS and see all the talk out there. It is just a sign you are doing something different.

If you are concerned about the way you train, check your measurements weekly.

I dont think you should workout with the intention of making yourself sore.
I get sore after nearly every workout mainly because i never do the same workout 2 weeks running.
having said that though ive noticed not all muscles get sore, and curiously, they are my lagging bodyparts. :confused:

Thanks for the information. It seems I have been misinformed. Knowing that, is working to failure sufficient? Is failure when you can't do any more of a high weight, or when you can't do any more of a more moderate weight?

Thanks for the information. It seems I have been misinformed. Knowing that, is working to failure sufficient? Is failure when you can't do any more of a high weight, or when you can't do any more of a more moderate weight?
If you follow MaxOT training (many including myself do), failure is with the highest weight you can handle with good form for between 4-6 reps. Other training programs may define failure differently.

Do you want the oversimplified, easy to package and market answer, or the right answer?

Here's my take. I've read everything about Max-OT and know the advocates of it. Skip LaCour, for example, has an incredible physique. So does Jeff Willet. However, those are two individuals out of billions on the planet.

I've looked at Hardgainer/Cyberpump and HIT and read those philosophies.

Then, I've connected with many people who are natural competing athletes. These are bodybuilders who earn hardware at many of their competitions.

I find very, very few athletes of that caliber who say, "Just lift to failure and recover and that's how I gain muscle." Very few. Not to say it's not possible, certainly Skip and Jeff are examples of sticking to a single regimen, but I'm asserting that more people I know, who I can verify their results and interact with directly, say it's more complicated. There is no best way, there is no secret workout, instead, it's an ongoing knowledge of training ... understanding time under tension, tempo, frequency, duration, exercise selection, isolation, compound, multi-joint, hormone responses, kinesiology, recover techniques, periodization, etc. In other words, there is no rep scheme or training protocols, but a variety of methods periodized over time to achieve consistent results. In other words, things like:

Kinesiology of Exercise by Yessis
Periodization Breakthrough by Fleck and Kraemer
Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning (an NSCA publication)
Fitness - the complete guide (an ISSA publication)
How to Write Strength Training Programs (Ian King)
Get Buffed (Ian King)
Poliquin Principles (Charles Poliquin)

etc etc.

Jeremy

Thanks for the information. It seems I have been misinformed. Knowing that, is working to failure sufficient? Is failure when you can't do any more of a high weight, or when you can't do any more of a more moderate weight?

Do you want the oversimplified, easy to package and market answer, or the right answer?

I was hoping you would have addressed the original post also on his feeling if you don't get sore, the exercise is not working.

I am sure you might have tried "failure" where you lifted to you could not complete a rep without breaking form. Did you feel it was harmful in any way? Or did you feel it just didn't build a body for contest. I am sure you will agree that all methods including HIT have many variations that insure a changeup in routine.

I was hoping you would have addressed the original post also on his feeling if you don't get sore, the exercise is not working.

I am sure you might have tried "failure" where you lifted to you could not complete a rep without breaking form. Did you feel it was harmful in any way? Or did you feel it just didn't build a body for contest. I am sure you will agree that all methods including HIT have many variations that insure a changeup in routine.

See, that's where the hangup is for me. I understand where Jeremy is coming from, though he is misunderstanding my motive. I'm not looking for the quick fix. I like to think I'm more mature than that.
Since we've established the relationship between soreness and success, I need to get a general feeling of what muscle failure feels like. I hate the sinking feeling I get around lunchtime when I worry that I may have wasted another day by not hitting it as hard as I should.
My main goal is building muscle to increase my basal metablic rate. I'm not interested in competition. I just don't have that kind of time.
Thanks to both of you. Jeremy, I'll be picking up one or two of those books today.

I hate the sinking feeling I get around lunchtime when I worry that I may have wasted another day by not hitting it as hard as I should.

If on the last rep of the set, if you can't complete the positive phase of the rep without dropping form, you have reached failure. You can't ask for more out of muscle beyond cheating and letting other muscles take over. The problem I see with methods not using a rep range and instructing the trainee to try and complete as many reps as possible each time is that the mind/muscle connection says "I am at 6 reps, time to fail".

With the one set of HIT, if I am at top of form or I misjudged starting weight, I might do 15 reps in my 8-12 rep range. I increase weight next time, I still might be off and go beyond 8 reps to 10. that tells me I will probably be adding more weight after the next workout, too.

Even while you understood soreness issue, Jeremy is a top source of information always concise. It would have been beneficial to all to hear his opinion. While there are some things we disagree on, he is always one to listen closely to.