Hey guys,

Problem is that my biceps are lagging big time.

I'm an experienced trainer but have noticed that my arms don't really look big or toned.

I have talked to trainers and one told me that i have "shortened fibres" along my bicep. Basically there is a gap ~2.5cm between my elbow (on the inside) and the start of my bicep, when my arm is straight. So when i flex, i see a little bulge but not a thick massive bicep.

So question is how to remedy this? I have trained using compound movements like barbell curls for at least 6months + emphasizing a full ROM. I am sure all my exercises are done correctly and for most sessions i practice 1s pause 1s raise ~2s lower.

My arm routine consists of compound exercises mostly, with periods of low rep - high set training followed by periods of high rep - med sets. Basically ~4 weeks of strength training and then ~4 weeks of bulking.

Exercises include: barbell curls, cable curls, lat pull down, chin ups, hammers, and db curls. However for the last few weeks i have placed priority on barbell curls, with iso exercises like cable curls to finish off.

The thing is, i want to expand the length of my bicep (is this even possible?), but it might be a body type thing that i'm stuck with. Also i want to make them ripped. So far through my training the biceps have gotten bigger, but they are still short and undefined.

Sorry for the novel, this has been bugging me for ages.

The thing is, i want to expand the length of my bicep (is this even possible?), but it might be a body type thing that i'm stuck with. Also i want to make them ripped. So far through my training the biceps have gotten bigger, but they are still short and undefined.

Sorry for the novel, this has been bugging me for ages.

Try THIS (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showpost.php?p=107014&postcount=9) for three weeks and tell me how it works. You should have picked your parents better - genes. This should help you as much as anything you can do. try to increase weights.

Well, honestly, your training routine for your biceps sucks. Why are you doing so much? Biceps are a secondary muscle and will grow accordingly with the rest of your body.

Exercises include: barbell curls, cable curls, lat pull down, chin ups, hammers, and db curls. However for the last few weeks i have placed priority on barbell curls, with iso exercises like cable curls to finish off.

Barbell curls are isolation, as are cable curls, hammers, and db curls. The only compound movements you have there are lat pulldowns and chinups. Mike Meija (CSCS) says you don't need isolation until your arms are over 15".

Here is what you should do for your biceps for 3x8 (in order):
1. Weighted Chin-ups (Pull-ups are fine, too)
2. Bent-over Barbell Rows with underhand grip
3. Curls

Triceps are 2/3rds of your arm muscle, so do these too (in order):
1. Weighted Dips
2. Bench Press
3. Shoulder Press
4. Tricep Pushdown or Skull Crushers

If you can do 3 sets of 8 reps, move up weight until you can only squeeze out 21-23 total reps (like 8,8,5 or 7,7,7, or 8,8,7).

Now, you also need to make sure that you are maximizing the possible testosterone release and gh release into your body by doing full squats, and deadlifts. The final thing you need to make sure is to eat.

If you post your entire routine, we can better critique it and point out weak spots.

The thing is, i want to expand the length of my bicep (is this even possible?), but it might be a body type thing that i'm stuck with. Also i want to make them ripped. So far through my training the biceps have gotten bigger, but they are still short and undefined.


To get them ripped, cut off bodyfat. To get them big, train and eat. Change of length is impossible.

Hey Rick,

I am in the same boat as you. My biceps aren't too bad but I have the "apple" on my arm, and for an inch or two inside my elbow it looks like there is nothing there. It really sucks because that is about where my sleeves end, so looking at me it looks like I can't pick up a fork. If you pull the sleeve up about 5 inches, it looks impressive.

Anyway, I'm sorry to say that from what I can tell, it is mostly genetics. I have been given all kinds of excersizes to try. Just like we all know for sure that you cannot spot reduce fat, I am starting to believe that you can not spot gain parts of any one muscle.

The best remedy I think is to make the overall arm bigger. Make the bicep bigger in general, and it will hopefully grow a little longer as it gets bigger. That is what I am trying now.

Also, as someone mentioned, 2/3 of your arm size is in fact due to the tricep, so I think one of the best things you and I can do to fix this prob is to work hard on our triceps.

Anyway, good luck. If anyone has any info counter to mine, please be sure to share.

haha

methodx: yeh i was pretty sure it was genes after a trainer told me.

kmfisher: those are all the bicep exercises that i HAVE done, not all in the same session. For a normal day, like you suggested, i would do about 3 exercises 3x8. And yeh i train my triceps hard, and they are much bigger than my bi's.

rtestes: ty, i will try that link.

some questions:

are pull ups like where you are doing a lat pulldown with overhand grip, but on the chin up bar?

kmfisher: you mention iso's are for arms over 15". should i cut down all iso's or is it ok to still do a couple every once in a while. because i see you have included curls in your bi routine.

maybe u r gay...

Same problem here too, but I manage to make incremental gains. I do a few different things to shake past plateaus. Any and all of them can work, the trick is to keep it changing. The first principle is, OVERLOAD the muscle. Bigger weight = bigger muscles - see MAX-OT for reference.

Here's one plateau busting technique:
On the EZ Curl or straight bar, grab a weight you can handle for a maximum of 3 reps. Then do the following cycle

- perform 3 reps
- wait 30 seconds
- perform another 3 reps (PUSH IT!)
- wait 40 seconds
- perform another 3 reps (DIG DEEP!)
- wait 60 seconds
- perform 1-3 reps, whatever you can handle
- wait 60 seconds
- continue until you have completed 10 reps total

This will get the fibers used to heavy weight. Do this as your very first set of the session, then continue your normal biceps routine for another 6-7 sets.

Take heart - I have long arms and the wide gap, but I'm not dissapointed in my arm size (14.5") because I know I can continue to make steady, albeit incremental, gains. As it has been pointed out, the triceps makes most of the arm mass. Also, even though my arm circumference isn't very impressive, I'm quite strong - much stronger then some shorter guys I see with more impressive "looking arms". When I load 125 pounds on the EZ Curl bar and perform a set of 6 reps I get some shocked glances. ;) But it wasnt that long ago that 90 pound curls seems like an unreachable goal. Progress.

Another thing I've done in the past is to spend a week doing bicep curls every day. Again the concept is to shock the muscle. Dont make this a long-term habit though - its ridiculous to do the same body part every day as a routine.

In general, if the conventional wisdom isnt working for you, do the opposite of the conventional wisdom for a short term experiment. They say 8-10 reps? Do 3. They say dont work the bodypart more than once a week? Do it everyday.

Also, something I'm about to try is this technique from Nick Nilsson (http://www.ironmagazine.com/article133.html)

are pull ups like where you are doing a lat pulldown with overhand grip, but on the chin up bar?

kmfisher: you mention iso's are for arms over 15". should i cut down all iso's or is it ok to still do a couple every once in a while. because i see you have included curls in your bi routine.

Pullups: Yes, put your hands on the bar w/ an overhand grip just around shoulder width (wherever its comfortable), and pull yourselves up and down. Keep your core tight, and make sure not to swing. When you can do 3x8, start holding a dumbbell between your legs.

Yes, I included curls in the routine. Compound exercises should be your priority, and then you can supplement them with some isolation exercises. Pullups will hit your biceps really hard, as will rows. Then, following those up with curls will definitely finish them off. They aren't required, though.

The reason Meija pushes compounds over isolation, is that compounds will really help develop overall size. Once you get big enough, you add in isolation if you want to work on more incremental gains, bicep peaks, limited shape changes in the muscle, etc.

I'm an experienced trainer but have noticed that my arms don't really look big or toned..

I'm still alittle confused about this one, you're an experienced PT and consider barbell curls a compound exercise? :confused:

But anyway, think of it this way, for the most part your biceps will grow in accordance to the rest of the surrounding areas, so if you're training with iso's, you'll never elicit the kind of growth you're looking for until you begin working the muscles that work in conjuction.

The best analogy i've heard is that "Big guns" won't fit on small boats...

The others have already listed some very good exercises, it's up to you now to determine which type of training methods respond best to your own body, good luck :tu:

I'm still alittle confused about this one, you're an experienced PT and consider barbell curls a compound exercise? :confused:

I wasn't sure if I read experienced PT, or simply experienced trainer, as in you've been training for some time. I know that I hardly do any direct arm work, but still have 17" biceps...good genes I guess. I do notice that the more lower body work I do, the more my upper body grows.

I'm still alittle confused about this one, you're an experienced PT and consider barbell curls a compound exercise? :confused:

But anyway, think of it this way, for the most part your biceps will grow in accordance to the rest of the surrounding areas, so if you're training with iso's, you'll never elicit the kind of growth you're looking for until you begin working the muscles that work in conjuction.

The best analogy i've heard is that "Big guns" won't fit on small boats...

The others have already listed some very good exercises, it's up to you now to determine which type of training methods respond best to your own body, good luck :tu:

I agree that compounds should make up the bulk of our exercises but I have found isolations have their place. A heavy barbell curl is hard to beat when you want focus and the majority of effort to be directed to the bicep with full contraction. :bb: