I noticed that John Stone does his weight training in the mornings on an empty stomach & cardio straight after. Shouldn't you do weight training after eating and keep cardio at least 6 hours apart?

Has anyone actually tried john stones weight lose phase and got results like he did?

I noticed that John Stone does his weight training in the mornings on an empty stomach & cardio straight after. Shouldn't you do weight training after eating and keep cardio at least 6 hours apart?
No I don't. Over the years I've tried many things to see what works best for me, including weight training on an empty stomach and (long ago) cardio after weight training. I have not done cardio on weight training days in a long, long time (not since the beginning of my transformation). When I was bulking I did my weight training after a light meal. Now I weight train mid-day a couple hours after a big meal. All this information is on my web site, including training times and meal timing (in my food logs).

No I don't. Over the years I've tried many things to see what works best for me, including weight training on an empty stomach and (long ago) cardio after weight training. I have not done cardio on weight training days in a long, long time (not since the beginning of my transformation). When I was bulking I did my weight training after a light meal. Now I weight train mid-day a couple hours after a big meal. All this information is on my web site, including training times and meal timing (in my food logs).

Information says -
weight loss phase = weights & cardio in mornings empty stomach
maintenence phase=protein shake then weights mornings
bulk phase = breakfast then weights mornings

So i guess weights and cardio in the morning worked in you weight loss phase.
The maintenence phase was a bit different & the bulk phase completly different.

That all sounds good, just that people say dont do weights and cardio straight after another.

I lost 55lbs doing cardio in the mornings and weights in the afternoons.
I guess everyone is different.
Anyway well done to you, it is an amazing transformation.

Weights & cardio on an empty stomach but split on different DAYS. He doesn't do them on the same day.

Weights & cardio on an empty stomach but split on different DAYS. He doesn't do them on the same day.

He did weights & cardio in the mornings on an empty stomach for almost 6 months in his weight loss phase.
Cardio 7 days a week and weights 3 days a week.
I guess it worked well for him!

He did weights & cardio in the mornings on an empty stomach for almost 6 months in his weight loss phase.
Cardio 7 days a week and weights 3 days a week.
I guess it worked well for him!

People vary in their response to exercise. Did you maintain your muscle mass while losing 55 lbs?

People vary in their response to exercise. Did you maintain your muscle mass while losing 55 lbs?


No, I lost plenty.
I was only concentrating on losing fat. I guess if i start a clean bulk now i can gain muscle mass and dont have to worry much about the fat. Weights 4 days a week & cardio 2 days. What do you think?

No, I lost plenty.
I was only concentrating on losing fat. I guess if i start a clean bulk now i can gain muscle mass and dont have to worry much about the fat. Weights 4 days a week & cardio 2 days. What do you think?
I think cardio is best during a maintenance phase. Weights and diet are the main factors for cutting and bulking. Maintenance of muscle is the most important thing for health.

I don't know why the vast majority of people would require more than 3 days a week of exercise. If you are building muscle mass, I am unsure why there would be a need to burn additional calories with cardio.

I think cardio is best during a maintenance phase. Weights and diet are the main factors for cutting and bulking. Maintenance of muscle is the most important thing for health.

I don't know why the vast majority of people would require more than 3 days a week of exercise. If you are building muscle mass, I am unsure why there would be a need to burn additional calories with cardio.

If i eat about 3500 calories a day on my bulking phase weight train 3-4 days a week, i think i will start gaining fat as the weight training will help with the muscle but not enough to burn the calories. Intake is high dont you think?

If i eat about 3500 calories a day on my bulking phase weight train 3-4 days a week, i think i will start gaining fat as the weight training will help with the muscle but not enough to burn the calories. Intake is high dont you think?

Yes, I think so. I would move your present intake up by 300 calories a week, all clean until you reach 2800 or so. Weigh each week, you might try to check BF%, take pictures. Depending on where you start, you will take 4 weeks or so to get there. You should be gaining weight, try to keep it at 1.5-3 pounds a week. By june you should have reach a good weight. What is your height?

Yes, I think so. I would move your present intake up by 300 calories a week, all clean until you reach 2800 or so. Weigh each week, you might try to check BF%, take pictures. Depending on where you start, you will take 4 weeks or so to get there. You should be gaining weight, try to keep it at 1.5-3 pounds a week. By june you should have reach a good weight. What is your height?

I'm 5'7"
So you recommend no cardio at all?

im going to maintain my cardio (4-5x / week now instead of 5-6x) because

1) i kind of like it. i feel like i have to do something everyday to feel good

2) i want to add purely lean mass, since summer is coming up. at my age (18) i feel thats the best route

I'm 5'7"
So you recommend no cardio at all?

Yes, calories and weights will do the job, I think 165-175 might be a good weight if it is mainly muscular. We put our bodies under stress by exercising and asking it to lose or gain weight. Why expose it to additional stress of cardio. When you achieve an ideal mix of muscle and fat you can bring it back in, if you feel the need. Let your nutrition go to building muscles. Cut the rest periods between sets if you want to get cardio, it is easier on joints.

im going to maintain my cardio (4-5x / week now instead of 5-6x) because

1) i kind of like it. i feel like i have to do something everyday to feel good

2) i want to add purely lean mass, since summer is coming up. at my age (18) i feel thats the best route

We all should make our own choices. Muscle mass is lean, just because you walk, bike, or run doesn't make you lean. It might cause you to rob your body of calories and nutriments to build lean muscle. I only suggest a different perspective.

Yes, calories and weights will do the job, I think 165-175 might be a good weight if it is mainly muscular. We put our bodies under stress by exercising and asking it to lose or gain weight. Why expose it to additional stress of cardio. When you achieve an ideal mix of muscle and fat you can bring it back in, if you feel the need. Let your nutrition go to building muscles. Cut the rest periods between sets if you want to get cardio, it is easier on joints.

Wouldn't it be better if you started bulking with a lean body, so you dont have to worry to much about fat in the future?
I read that John Stone done some cardio in his bulking phase and he didn't look like he needed to!
I pesonally dont think that just weight training can give you lean muscle without some sort of cardio. But i'm no expert.

Wouldn't it be better if you started bulking with a lean body, so you dont have to worry to much about fat in the future?
I read that John Stone done some cardio in his bulking phase and he didn't look like he needed to!
I pesonally dont think that just weight training can give you lean muscle without some sort of cardio. But i'm no expert.

Muscle is lean, it is entirely different then fat. Your diet and the amount of calories you intake cause fat. If you expend more calories than you intake you lose weight. If you expend less calories than you intake you gain weight. Weight can be fat or muscle. Cardio builds little or no muscle. Resistance training (weights) builds muscle.

I don't understand the process where cardio is a cause factor for "lean" muscle. It is a calorie burner, in bulking you are taking additional calories in for the purpose of having an excess rather than a deficit. The excess goes to building muscle.

You notice I didn't say take in 3500-4000 calories. You lost your weight on a 1300 calorie diet, I believe. I suggested you slowly increase your intake to 2800, while weighing and measuring yourself. You will double your intake, while watching for fat, you can adjust as you go.

Choice is yours.

however - according to the theory of liss, one can burn only fat while doing cardio fasted.

this means you could still put on the normal muscle you do, follow the calorie in/calorie out rule, and still burn just fat via fasted cardio

this means you could still put on the normal muscle you do, follow the calorie in/calorie out rule, and still burn just fat via fasted cardio

You don't want your body to starve in any time of the day when trying to build muscle.

I don't understand the process where cardio is a cause factor for "lean" muscle. It is a calorie burner, in bulking you are taking additional calories in for the purpose of having an excess rather than a deficit. The excess goes to building muscle.



Yes, cardio will not help so-called 'lean' muscle development in a bulk. And it is necessary to have an excess of calories during a bulk while cardio creates a deficit. But this doesn't mean that cardio can't have a place in a bulk. Having some cardio allows you to eat more in a bulk, but this is not the reason I think that it should be done. Rather, eating more if including cardio is what allows you to have enough of an excess to still be adding muscle. I do cardio because I enjoy sports that naturally entail it. I also like to maintain a level of aerobic fitness. It is true that weights when done correctly work the cardiovascular system, but I like to work it to a higher degree. I do minimize it when working on adding mass. I would not tell you that cardio helps you with gaining mass during a bulk. It doesn't. But it doesn't have to impede your progress (at least not to any significant degree) either so long as your nutrition is appropriate. If you enjoy sports or other types of cardio, you can continue to do them. But make sure your nutrition is adequate, and don't do cardio in the belief that it will aid muscular development.

I agree. I have huge, meathead friends who could probably one-arm curl me, but they have the worst cardio health. Sure, they can bench, squat, and deadlift, but can they play more than 10 mins of a soccer game?

Enjoy the body you have, with all that new muscle, instead of just strolling the beach like a narcissist. Live longer and healthier- do cardio.



Yes, cardio will not help so-called 'lean' muscle development in a bulk. And it is necessary to have an excess of calories during a bulk while cardio creates a deficit. But this doesn't mean that cardio can't have a place in a bulk. Having some cardio allows you to eat more in a bulk, but this is not the reason I think that it should be done. Rather, eating more if including cardio is what allows you to have enough of an excess to still be adding muscle. I do cardio because I enjoy sports that naturally entail it. I also like to maintain a level of aerobic fitness. It is true that weights when done correctly work the cardiovascular system, but I like to work it to a higher degree. I do minimize it when working on adding mass. I would not tell you that cardio helps you with gaining mass during a bulk. It doesn't. But it doesn't have to impede your progress (at least not to any significant degree) either so long as your nutrition is appropriate. If you enjoy sports or other types of cardio, you can continue to do them. But make sure your nutrition is adequate, and don't do cardio in the belief that it will aid muscular development.

No I don't. Over the years I've tried many things to see what works best for me, including weight training on an empty stomach and (long ago) cardio after weight training. I have not done cardio on weight training days in a long, long time (not since the beginning of my transformation). When I was bulking I did my weight training after a light meal. Now I weight train mid-day a couple hours after a big meal. All this information is on my web site, including training times and meal timing (in my food logs).

What i was trying to get at is that weight training and cardio in the mornings right after another seamed to work well for you, according to you pics on your site!