Day 0 - Pre-game & Setup

Kenyanese Atkin Daily Diet (http://people.msoe.edu/~picciond/KenyanAtkinDiet.htm)

Ok, so here's what this is. I'm going to do a little experiment on my body/fitness that a lot of the members here would say is insane/stupid.

no-carb diet + 10 miles of running per day, for 2 weeks straight.
The running will be separated 5 miles in the morning fasted at 70% max hr for 50 minutes, and the same done after work.

No break days, no cheat days. I will also be taking the following suppliments:

+ Vitamin C (2000mg per day - my legs will need the healing)
+ Omega3/6 Oil
+ Vitamin E (my mommy told me to break open the capsule and rub it on stretch marks. might as well try it)
+ Xenawhatever (ECA Stack)
+ Roundys Multivitamin
+ Glutamine Peptide (this will be very very tough to take without dex)

Pictures will be posted at the end of the experiment. No lifting will be done because my body will need any rest it can get. I will be getting 8 hrs of sleep a night. Elbow-to-knee inclined crunches will be done after morning running sessions.

1800 Calories.

I'll be updating every day explaining how i'm feeling (sore, weak, hungry, etc) along with my weight & body fat% each morning.

Hopefully the results will be interesting, and if science is correct - i might lose some muscle mass because of the lack of carbs. Feel free to comment and add your 2 cents, but keep in mind this IS an experiment, meaning i'm not going to tamper with the data/variables (diet, excersize, etc) until the experiment is complete.

http://www.eurosport.com/imgbk/ATHLIC/ALL/big_MD-I121555.jpg

This is gonna be fascinating.

Can't wait.

Daily Stats: http://people.msoe.edu/~picciond/Kenya/Stats.htm
Diet: http://people.msoe.edu/~picciond/Kenya/KenyanAtkinDiet.htm

Weight: 179.8 lbs
BodyFat%: 13
BodyFat: 23.4 lbs
LeanMass: 156.4 lbs

Notes:

No protien shakes during this experiment. Real food serves my appitite so much better. Protien shakes just don't fill me up, plus i ran out. :) Today's weighin was after breakfast, plus i still have waterweight in me from last night's pizza.

I'm interested to see what happens. I feel pretty strongly that you'll lose quite a bit of muscle but maybe I'm wrong. You should definitely be able to lose several pounds of fat through all the cardio (70 miles a week!) and ketosis.

If it were me I would get a stress fracture so I hope your running mechanics are good enough for you to be able to handle 140 miles of running in two weeks.

:gl:

dude...

i don't even run that much when training for a marathon. what's kenyan about that diet? the running part? ;) because i'm sure you already know what a kenyan diet is like...

i really hope you don't injure yourself. 10 miles a day is kind of intense. well, no, it's not kind of -- it is FUGGIN' intense. you do realize you'd be burning a minimum of 1000 more calories per day through activity alone , but you're only eating 1800 calories a day? you think your body will enter ketosis and just use up all your bodyfat? substitute some VAAM into your diet if you're planning on the endurance part (www.vaam-power.com).

also, i'm sure you already know that running needs glyocogen for energy, which is one of the reasons for carboloading is the reason.
http://www.active.com/story.cfm?story_id=10251&sidebar=13&category=running
if you don't have the carb energy, and just use fat energy, i'm guessing you're going to burn up quite a bit of muscle, as well.

i would REALLY not recommend what you're going to do -- but damn, like a car accident, i really want to see what happens.

please, please, PLEASE! if you feel too tired or get sore, take a day off -- you can really injure yourself trying this, and that setback is worth evaluating into your gameplan.

but -- GOOD LUCK! i'll be cheering for you!

Still think it's gonna be F A S C I N A T I N G to see what happens.

I bet he's not gonna make it.

whoar, last sentence was meant to motivate you, no offense. If you REALLY wanna do that, I will be extremely happy when you accomplish your 2 weeks goal.

I know you are not happy with medium level goals. You're aiming for an ideal and I know you are going to reach that ideal one day, maybe with this approach, maybe a bit later. I know it. Only that when you will reach your perfect physique, then you'll like to change something else and that's the beauty of that, never standing still, always flowing, like a river. If this doesn't work, don't be afraid and keep trying different things.

But I still bet you're not gonna be able.

Hopefully, you will make me swallow my own words by your will power, endurance and commitement. And I will be very glad to do it.

Good luck. We're all with you, dude. :tu:

Before pic?

Although not the most clear pic in the world, I think the before pic is in this thread

http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=14272

Notes:
------------------
Couple things I noticed about the diet... wayyy too much beef jerky. I need to find an alternative for this, if you have any suggestions of a high protien/fat food, i'm all ears. 1oz is ok, but a person can easily get sick of beef jerky fast.

The peanut butter really seems to keep me full, which is great! My old diet had too much whey in it, and i was constantly hungry. I'm going to need to add some variety in there.

About the runinng 2 times per day... that might be a couple times a week thing instead of everyday. I don't know... we'll see.

Only feeling that might have changed is waking up today i felt like i had a hang over, but i didnt drink last night. Just really hard to get out of bed, yet easy to get my running clothes on.

I still have to go buy the xenakdjsflkjdsfkjdsl ECA stack. I'll probably do that when i get back to milwaukee. I came home yesterday for a NCAA gettogether.

and WOW, did anyone see the Wake/VA game last night? that was insane!

If you don't keep up on the running doesn't that just turn this into a ketogenic diet?

Notes:
------------------
Couple things I noticed about the diet... wayyy too much beef jerky. I need to find an alternative for this, if you have any suggestions of a high protien/fat food, i'm all ears. 1oz is ok, but a person can easily get sick of beef jerky fast.



Try grilled chicken legs/wings, or pork steaks.

Notes:
------------------
... if you have any suggestions of a high protien/fat food, i'm all ears...

What about Cottage cheese? With peanut butter and splenda(and cinnamon) is heaven... Or has it got too many carbs for you? (0.8 g of CH per oz.)

it scares me how much ass you kick

I will run every morning 5 miles fasted @70% maxhr no matter what. the 2x per day is what i'm questioning myself on.

If you're going to do silly things perhaps you should browse around the site/fourm of the guy who literally wrote the book on keto dieting:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/
Lyle McDonald

Really funny guy and very helpful. He is very practical and not swayed by fads or the latest nonsense. OTOH many find him abrasive and.....well quite unpleasant. I'd suggest lurking before posting....especially something like your plan here.

Oh and you might consider getting some citrulline malate to help with the endurance (this is supposed to help mainly with endurance, not so much for lifting). You can get it bulk cheap here:

http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=1676

article on it
http://www.1fast400.com/?ingredients_id=70

Great service, great price and service so fast it is scary (I have no commercial interest in them or any other place).

Daily Stats: http://people.msoe.edu/~picciond/Kenya/Stats.htm
Diet: http://people.msoe.edu/~picciond/Kenya/KenyanAtkinDiet.htm

Weight: 179.6 lbs
BodyFat%: 12
BodyFat: 21.6 lbs
LeanMass: 158.0 lbs


Notes:
----------------------------
I lifted yesterday - chest & triceps. Took 60g of dextrose + 30g protien. I'm going to add 1 cup of green beans mid-day. There's no way this will hurt progress, and will help me in staying alive. Kenyans eat leaves and branches from bushes, so that means i can too. (JUST KIDDING JOHN - I LOVE AND RESPECT THE KENYAN PEOPLE FOR THEIR ABILITIES AND AM JELOUS OF THEIR SKILLS IN MARATHON RUNNING.)

I cannot eat cottage cheese because im lactose intolerant. But if someone tells me there's no lactose in cottage cheese, i'll consider it.

I wish there was other cheaper, cleaner alternatives for protein meals other than cottage cheese, eggs, and whey. I cant cook eggs at work - i wish i could!

I was pretty happy to see that i didnt lose any weight, but my body fat % went down. I ran this morning, 43 minutes, and i tried to keep my heart rate around 140-145. I still havnt been able to build up the balls to take the glutamine peptide. the stuff causes me to gag as soon as it hits the back of my throat.

I will run again after work if i have the energy. My main goal of this experiment is to not die or get AIDS.

------------------------------------
If you don't keep up on the running doesn't that just turn this into a ketogenic diet?
I will run every morning 5 miles fasted @70% maxhr no matter what. the 2x per day is what i'm questioning myself on.
------------------------------------
If you're going to do silly things perhaps...
I don't consider this "silly". This is purely to put all these studies and beliefs to the test. Everyone's body reacts differently to different things - If i lose 5 lbs of muscle for the good of science and data, so be it. This is just to see what happens, and as long as i don't die, the experiment results will be a success no matter what they are.

I cant cook eggs at work - i wish i could!



Take them with you to work hard boiled. Then it's only a matter of removing the shell. Can you do that at work without looking like a well-dressed australopithecus?

Even better, remove the shell at home!! :D

Take them with you to work hard boiled. Then it's only a matter of removing the shell. Can you do that at work without looking like a well-dressed australopithecus?

Even better, remove the shell at home!! :D
Attached is today's diet....
I really think i'm onto something with this one! :D

EDIT: Update - i'm feeling pretty energetic and awake right now while sitting at my desk. If i'm still feeling this way at 4pm, i'm going to go running again after work, just like a kenyanese person would do! :spaz:

You say you are going to take xenedrine as well. This is useless. They only make it without ephedra, no use in taking it then.

The link I gave you is your best(almost only) bet. It takes about a week to ship from BB.com though.

Ok, i ordered it, they already shipped it, it'll be here in 3 days.

I'm still feelin good enough to go running, so off I go.

i was thinking on the way home - after my afternoon runs, should i do a PWO meal of 60g dex + 30g pro?

I would take it probably 15 minutes after running to allow some fat burning, but im thinking it would make my legs stronger? i dont know much about anything, so let me know before i get back from running what you think, then ill read this thread.

Taking dextrose post-run would sort of turn this in to a modified TKD, where a normal targeted ketogenic diet has you use dextrose before weight-lifting. It's your experiment ... I don't really have any advice about whether to do it ... it all depends on what you're trying to accomplish with the experiment.

One thing I would suggest, though, is to carb load when you're done with the experiment, and measure bodyfat before and after the carb-load ... maybe for 2-4 days.

Specifically, take a bodyfat measurement the day you finish, then carb-load the next day, then take a bodyfat measurement the day after the carb-load refeed. Heck, you could probably continue to the refeed for another half-day, too. Then take a bodyfat measurement again the next day, too.

Be sure to drink plenty of water on the refeed days.

Reason I suggest this is that if you're getting adequate protein, a good portion of of the muscle loss you'll see in a ketogenic diet is just glycogen depletion and the associated water loss. You could easily gain 4-5 pounds of "lean mass" with a carb-load when you're done.

It'd be interesting to see.

The dextrose post-run might mess this up a bit ... but it's hard to say how much. You'll probably still be pretty glycogen depleted with only 60g after runs of that length.

thanks a lot for the response adamc!

I'll definatly carb load after the experiment - seems like the healthy thing to do and i wouldnt have thought about it before.

The reason i was thinking of doing the dex after my daily SECOND run is to refuel my muscles as much as i can, because i'm under the impression after a 5 mile run protien synthesis is occuring just the same as in weight training your legs? i'm really not sure... the fasted morning run i wouldnt eat any carbs (except for the 0.65g carbs in an egg) - so that run accomplishes the fat burning post run.

Anyway - i just got done with the second run and i feel GREAT! I think i'm going to take the day off of all excersize wednesday. Not taking a day off would be crazy, experiment or not.

Taking dextrose post-run would sort of turn this in to a modified TKD, where a normal targeted ketogenic diet has you use dextrose before weight-lifting. It's your experiment ... I don't really have any advice about whether to do it ... it all depends on what you're trying to accomplish with the experiment.

One thing I would suggest, though, is to carb load when you're done with the experiment, and measure bodyfat before and after the carb-load ... maybe for 2-4 days.

Specifically, take a bodyfat measurement the day you finish, then carb-load the next day, then take a bodyfat measurement the day after the carb-load refeed. Heck, you could probably continue to the refeed for another half-day, too. Then take a bodyfat measurement again the next day, too.

Be sure to drink plenty of water on the refeed days.

Reason I suggest this is that if you're getting adequate protein, a good portion of of the muscle loss you'll see in a ketogenic diet is just glycogen depletion and the associated water loss. You could easily gain 4-5 pounds of "lean mass" with a carb-load when you're done.

It'd be interesting to see.

The dextrose post-run might mess this up a bit ... but it's hard to say how much. You'll probably still be pretty glycogen depleted with only 60g after runs of that length.

just as an update - after my 2nd 5 mile run today, i waited about 25 minutes, then took glutamine peptide + 30g pro + 60g dex.

it's now been 1.5 hours and i feel like shit. i feel nautious, i want to vomit. i'm exhausted and light headed

im cooking some pork tenderloin right now, and im going to eat some peanutbutter. hopfully some food will make everything better. if i don't post tomorrow, that means i'm either dead or in the hospital. maybe i got AIDS today, who knows.

I really don't feel good, but hey - all in the name of science.

I really don't feel good, but hey - all in the name of science.

That's, more or less, what Dr. Jekyll said.

Good luck in your experiment. I would never do it because unlike some people, I'm not only not carb sensitive, but if I go below 40% in a day I get piercing headaches and other related crap. I know why I'm that way, but I won't get in to it here.

Now remember: If you feel like you're dying, you're probably just being a wuss. If you really feel like you're dying, stop. Seriously. People croak from sun stroke, so who knows what virtually zero carbs and all of that running can do to you in the long run.

Daily Stats: http://people.msoe.edu/~picciond/Kenya/Stats.htm

Weight: 176.0 lbs
BodyFat%: 11
BodyFat: 19.36 lbs
LeanMass: 156.64 lbs


Notes:
----------------------------
WOW - 176 lbs and 11% bodyfat? are you kidding me mr scale? Well, for one thing i got rid of ALOT of waterweight yesterday (i wont explain the methods, but it involves a toylet and a sand-wedge) Got about 7 hours of sleep last night. I couldnt get to sleep because my body temperature was really hot. i felt the radiation coming off of my chest and my hands were burning up because of it.

Took 2 shots of xenadrine and went running 5 miles outside this morning. one thing i noticed was it was nearly impossible to keep my heart rate under 155 no matter how slow i went. probably because i'm worn out already.

got home, took shower, cooked 3 eggs, ate 1 tablespoon of nat. peanutbuttaaa, drank water, swollowed pills (multivitamin, potassium, vitaminC, calcium)

Tonight is lifting, sholders, biceps, and back.

yesterday i had about 2300 calories total because of the PWO meal taken after my 2nd run.


Now remember: If you feel like you're dying, you're probably just being a wuss. If you really feel like you're dying, stop. Seriously. People croak from sun stroke, so who knows what virtually zero carbs and all of that running can do to you in the long run.
I think i was just worn out last night.

keep an eye on your heart rate first thing in the morning. if it is high before your feet even touch the floor you are overtraining and not doing yourself any good because your body is not able to recover.

Just wanted to subscribe to this experiment. goodluck :tu:

Just an update on how i'm feeling...

- little tired (may be because of only 7 hrs of sleep)
- my right ankle hurts
- my right big toe is sore because it has a callis that keeps hitting my shoe when i run
+ full.. just finished my Meal B
+ heart rate is around 48 or so.

[DAY OFF]

Lifted last night - shoulders/biceps/calvs.
It was a good time.

EDIT....

10:00AM: it's driving me crazy that i didnt run this morning! i want to go home and run so bad right now. feeling hungry too
Today's diet so far is attached.

11:19AM: Just ate, still hungry as hell. I'm really considering upping the cals a bit, but i'll live.

03:07PM: what a boring day! i cant take this "day of rest" shet, so i'm going for a tiny 5 mile jog outside, followed by an intense ab workout.

05:55PM: ok, went for a 45 minute run. my heart rate was still pretty hard to keep down, but before i went running my heart was at 48 bpm, so i dont kno whats up. did a great ab workout, took a shower, weighed myself: 177 11%bf. Took 60g dex, 30g pro, 10g glutamin pep.

This is nutty but fun to watch. Good luck.

hey dude.

can't NOT support my fellow runner! all i can say is, you're absolutely nuts, but you've inspired me to try somethin' too!

=) good luck and hope everything turns out good for yah!

This is nutty but fun to watch. Good luck.


Heh... I can't decide if it's more like "magnifying glass versus bug" or "picking at scab and can't stop"

Daily Stats: http://people.msoe.edu/~picciond/Kenya/Stats.htm

Weight: 175.4 lbs
BodyFat%: 11
BodyFat: 19.29 lbs
LeanMass: 156.1 lbs

Notes:
-----------------------
hmm... looks like i've lost 4.1 lbs of FAT since i started this; which was 5 days ago. By next week sunday - i WILL have abs. Although, i feel i'm losing fat a tiny bit too fast. Today I'm the lightest weight i've been since Sophomore year highschool. Its an incredible feeling. I'm going to up the calories by 200 today, so with the PWO meal i'll be up to 2500 calories. Hopfully i can put on some good lean mass while i'm doing this, but i doubt it. Hort - you hate'n? where's the love daddy? where's the love? When i'm done with this hopfully that lean mass number will be right around 156 or more. if so - i'd call this pure success, which it has been so far. I've attached the perfect diet.

Updates:
-----------------------
05:00 AM: took ECA, Ran 4 miles today, slow pace so my hr wouldnt go above 150.
06:00 AM: Took shower, cooked 3 eggs, took my vitamins
07:00 AM: Got to work, took my dose of peanut butta and omega6 fat
10:15 AM: Cashews/BeefJerky... feeling fine, not tired.
11:07 AM: Tblspn Natural peanutbutter. i'm considering lifting today instead of running.
11:52 AM: Just got back from urinating. I feel my abs clearly, belt needs new notch.
05:00 PM: Ran, killer-krunches, shower. waiting for 25 min after run to take PWO meal
05:01 PM: Stepped on the scale :) 175.2, 10% body fat. must be a fluke.

:spaz:

Daily Stats: http://people.msoe.edu/~picciond/Kenya/Stats.htm

Weight: 175.2 lbs
BodyFat%: 10.9
BodyFat: 19.1 lbs
LeanMass: 156.1 lbs

Notes:
-----------------------
I accidently stepped on soemthing funny while walking around the house barefoot yesterday. Hurt right away almost as if i broke something, then it went away. Didnt hurt when i was running at first, but during the last mile this morning, i felt it. Now i still feel it. I'm going to lift tonight, but tomorrow i'm digging out the excersize bike, slapping a Seinfeld dvd in, and doing 45 minutes that way.
Some good news is i can see the outside perimeter of my abs now, just not the inner details, even though i can feel the details through the skin. I have a tiny bit of fat on my chest still, and lovehandles/lower belly. i dont think i have ANY anywhere else, but who knows.
I really really really hope this isnt a stress fracture. Even though i wouldnt be surprised... i certainly deserve one.

Updates:
-----------------------
11:00 AM: Since it's the 25th of the month, every 25th day of every month everyone gets a candy gift from headquarters. this time it was a bucket of chocolate chip cookies. a good sized bucket too! i immidiatly said "ok, who wants mine?" someone spoke up, i gave it to him, all good. I didn't even CONSIDER eating them, they looked pretty good too! I forgot to make my bed this morning and it's driving me nuts. so much of me wants to go home, make it, and drive back to work. why am i such a neat freak? this has nothing to do with this experiment though. I'm going to have a diet vanilla coke now. i need the caffien bad.

bah... you're making me feel lazy here, I'm off to do cardio.




ps. it's more like picking at a scab and can't stop

damn dude...

gotta increase the mileage slowly!

but keep up another form of cardio! don't quit the experiment just because you can't run! if you can bust out the same amount of time doing cardio on a machine i the morning and at night, you'll still be doing it!

keep your head up!

damn dude...

gotta increase the mileage slowly!

but keep up another form of cardio! don't quit the experiment just because you can't run! if you can bust out the same amount of time doing cardio on a machine i the morning and at night, you'll still be doing it!

keep your head up!
I only have 8 days left, this experiement will not be stopped.
If i'm in a coma, someone better be there moving my legs real fast in my hospital bed, and grinding up chicken breasts to slip in my IV

[No stats today - was in a rush this morning]

Used the excersize bike fasted this morning while watching "Rounders" on dvd.

4.5lbs loss in 5 days!!!

thats amazing :D

good luck!!

what where the arguements against doing atkins like stuff again? Is it just that once you start eating carbs again you'll gain allot of it back? Lose too much muscle?

This thread is really tempting me to try the fad diet.

kolin - this experiment really has nothing to do with atkins OR kenya for that matter - its just an allout near 0 carb diet combined with intense high impact cardio done twice a day.

after my 2nd run of each day, i do abs, wait 25 min total, and then eat a PWO meal consisting of 60g dextrose, 30g protien. I wait 25 minutes because i let the post run fat burning go, while i think still taking advantage of that protien synthesis phase from the ab workout + soar legs/body from running. this is all in theory, but the numbers have shown no muscle loss.

i think i actually know what im doing with this, but im never good at explaining myself because i always forgot the words that go along with what im trying to say. hoping the photos will speak for themselves.

I know it's hard to have to exercise restraint when all your friends are out there having fun... kudos to you for being so disciplined! It's not only a sign of your level of dedication, but I'm almost 100% sure that you can apply the same determination to all facets of life -- and I'm sure you already do.

Keep up the awesome progress, dude! And Thanks, once again, from me, as well as anybody else who is keeping up with your diary. For you to put your body/health/social life on the line for people you've never met before just for our reading entertainment, is absolutely astonishing and noble.

Thanks, so much, and keep up the f**king fabulous work!!! :flex:

Wh0uareume,

Great job on sticking with this plan you set, you are definitely succesfully dropping fat.

I just wanted to play devil's advocate about why you are not dropping muscle on a cardio heavy program.

Back in January when John was about to start his latest cut he said that he was going to approach this cut very differently than when he initially lost weight back in jan, 2003. He wanted to preserve as much muscle as possible and he felt that if he did the same as before, he would have lost a good amount of muscle.

So when I read this, I thought wait a minute, I looked at the numbers of John's initial weight loss and he lost nearly all fat and barely any muscle at all. I thought that was one hell of a successful way to lose fat. He lost over 60 pounds of fat and only three pounds of muscle. I figured, why would he want to change something that worked so well.

He pointed out to me that the first time around in 1/03, he had very little muscle to begin with and therefore he couldn't really lose any. This really made sense because even when he was eating like 1200 calories a day for the first month his numbers showed that he hadn't lost any muscle.

So my proposition is that if someone doesn't have much muscle to begin with than they really can't lose any. Not that I am saying you don't have any muscle, but your stats are pretty similar to John's were back before his first bulk. He's just under your height and had ~150 pounds lean body mass, and you have 156.

So I just wanted to offer that if you are succesful in not losing any muscle during this program, if in the future you bulk up to 10-20 pounds of more muscle, the same program may not help keep that extra muscle.

Here's the post from John:
link (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showpost.php?p=102814&postcount=700)

from this thread:
link (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=557&page=35&pp=20)

I didnt click those two links you sent me, but from what i can remember john was talking about doing his HIIT fasted being the main issue. All my cardio is done at 70% max hr, which if theory is correct, i let my muscles get all the oxygen they need.

Nothing today. I got on my excersize bike and right away my ass hurt. plus i was peddln away, and i could only get my heart rate up to 105, so i said fuck it. still took my ephedrine/caffien/asprin and i was religious to the diet the entire weekend.

tomorrow i should be back into it.

I didnt click those two links you sent me, but from what i can remember john was talking about doing his HIIT fasted being the main issue. All my cardio is done at 70% max hr, which if theory is correct, i let my muscles get all the oxygen they need.
I see your point. I was not trying to prove to you that what you are currently doing should cause you to lose muscle. I am just suggesting that since your stats are similar to John's (back when he couldn't lose any muscle even on fasted HIIT) then you may be in the same situation where you can't lose muscle regardless of what you do, whether it be this experiment, or fasted HIIT or something else. I guess I was saying if you actually can't lose muscle right now, there is no way to determine if the kenyanese atkins program (KA) is muscle preserving.

Let me ask you this, in your estimation have you ever in your adult life had less muscle than you do now? If the answer is yes than perhaps the KA program is muscle preserving. If the answer is no, than maybe you simply cannot drop to a lower muscle mass. In that case you could try the KA program again after gaining 10 pounds of muscle.

anyway, just offering it as a thought. As a research scientist, I am constantly plagued with evaluating whether the experiment I am running is actually testing the right parameters, is consistent, etc. I am definitely too analytical for my own good sometimes.

Let me ask you this, in your estimation have you ever in your adult life had less muscle than you do now? If the answer is yes than perhaps the KA program is muscle preserving. If the answer is no, than maybe you simply cannot drop to a lower muscle mass. In that case you could try the KA program again after gaining 10 pounds of muscle.
I think i'm stronger now than i was before but im not sure. this is really the first time i ever worked out, etc. in my adult life.

but i dont think its as simple as if no - not muscle preserving/if yes - muscle preserving.
With any low calorie, losing weight diet, you're not going to be able to put on muscle because you dont have enough calories to. thats why people cut, then bulk not at the same time. My chest muscles are actually pretty large, and same with my bicepts, calves, and quads from highschool baseball, and they still are to this day.

I'm not trying to defend this experiement - i just dont know enough about my past stats to be able to say if i have more or less muscle than i did before. I dont think anything im doing would actually cause muscle loss. i do my cardio at 70%, and then my 2nd cardio at 70% followed by dextros/protien, which most people would never take after cardio, which i think would counterattack the "too much cardio/overworking" argument, but im not sure yet... we'll see sunday when the results are in.

I dont think anything im doing would actually cause muscle loss. i do my cardio at 70%, and then my 2nd cardio at 70% followed by dextros/protien, which most people would never take after cardio, which i think would counterattack the "too much cardio/overworking" argument, but im not sure yet... we'll see sunday when the results are in.
I'm not sure either but I think I agree with you. Not until coming to this forum did I even hear about too much cardio causing muscle loss. It is hard to imagine walking causing it. I would think steady state running shouldn't either. and you are feeding yourself afterward. If you see some muscle there from previous sports, I bet you have some to lose, and the fact that you are not is valid data. I'm interested to see how it turns out too.

another thing to think about - is people working construction or people working in steel factories - the ones doing the heavy lifting and heavy labor who are just HUGE GUYS. are they losing muscle just because they'r not giving their muscles time to rebuild? are they getting weaker?

from what i have read in my time is this..

* 400 calories added to the daily intake on lift days, waiting no longer than 30 minutes after lifting, 60g dextrose, 30g protien.
* you can eat carbs 30 minutes after cardio but try not to before because the fat loss process is still going

so i combined these two ideas, and take the PWO 25 minutes after my 2nd run so maybe i can build my leg muscles, or at least maintain them. During the 25 minute wait, i do a great ab workout.

it's genious i tell ya... genious.

I'm not sure either but I think I agree with you. Not until coming to this forum did I even hear about too much cardio causing muscle loss. It is hard to imagine walking causing it. I would think steady state running shouldn't either. and you are feeding yourself afterward. If you see some muscle there from previous sports, I bet you have some to lose, and the fact that you are not is valid data. I'm interested to see how it turns out too.

as a sidenote...

you have no idea how much this experiment has helped my willpower.
i am 100% dedicated to staying on this exactly and not screwing up. i turn down pizza, chocolate, every temptation that will tamper with the results.

i feel like if i eat a tiny box of raisens, or even a banana, the results will be tampered with and that will be like lying to all of you.

the only thing thats messing with the results is the stress fracture, because my excersize bike hurts my ass so bad.

Why don't you try lowering the seat on your bike? Your form won't be as good, but it should reduce the friction on your butt. :D

I might give this whole Kenyan Atkins a try after my marathon, provided there are not strong "copyright issues". It might be useful to lose the last few bf%.

I must say I was not convinced you would do it, wh0areume, but I must now take my hat off. Well done, you're almost there. :bow:

I never liked this approach, but your outstanding success has opened my eyes to new fields of wisdom.

Cannot wait to see the after picture. ;)

well, right after i made that post about not cheating once during this whole thing, i had a cheat meal. 1 small box of raisins. i feel so guilty, but im going to lift now so maybe it wont hurt my progress THAT bad. i miss carbs so much.

I might give this whole Kenyan Atkins a try after my marathon, provided there are not strong "copyright issues". It might be useful to lose the last few bf%.

I must say I was not convinced you would do it, wh0areume, but I must now take my hat off. Well done, you're almost there. :bow:

I never liked this approach, but your outstanding success has opened my eyes to new fields of wisdom.

Cannot wait to see the after picture. ;)

...and they miss you

They don't miss you, it's all a lie. In fact, they hate your guts. And they said that you're weak and they're just using you and they have you tied around their metaphorical little pinky finger. Don't give into the lie. You don't need them...in fact, you're probably better off without them.

Weight: 175.2
Bdyft%: 11

Couldnt do cardio this morning. I go all out on my excersize bike for 5 straight minutes, look at my hr monitor - 120. WTF???

one thing is - rtestes's posts on here makes it REALLY easy to give up in the middle of a cardio session. "you dont need cardio" "you dont need cardio, just lift and make sure your diet is good" "you dont need cardio"

so thats what i did - i gave up. I cant stand not running. its like a big hole in my life right now, and it happened RIGHT BEFORE spring hit.
the stress fracture hit and the temperature immediatly went up 30 degrees and the sun came out, snow melted. all within 1 minute.

Plus my new shoes came in the mail yesterday. what did i do to deserve this? im considering running this after noon even WITH the stress fracture, but its not worth running once to ruin the chance of not running for an entire summer, cuz i think my foot would crack in half.

he doesnt mean dont do it. you dont need cardio to loose weight but it will help. hell you dont need weights to loose weight. do cardio and eat right and you will loose fat. you just wont gain the kind of muscle you could on a lifting program. there are benefits to be derived from doing intense cardio that weight lifting cant deliver and vice versa. i dont think i need to tell you this but maybe for others who are following your thread. you seem to have amassed quite a following.

Definatly agree - I pretty much lost all of my 90 lbs on mainly cardio. But when i was on that excersize bike this morning - it just wasn't worth the effort.

I miss running so much. Running to a runner is like a smoking habit to a smoker, and a stress fracture is like lung cancer.

Maybe this afternoon i can play a little GTA SanAndreas while peddling on the bike. I was watching "Rounders" this morning when i was trying to do it, and it just didnt do it for me. I need something to completly take my mind off of the peddling. I might actually go pick up an eliptical machine after work... who knows.

he doesnt mean dont do it. you dont need cardio to loose weight but it will help. hell you dont need weights to loose weight. do cardio and eat right and you will loose fat. you just wont gain the kind of muscle you could on a lifting program. there are benefits to be derived from doing intense cardio that weight lifting cant deliver and vice versa. i dont think i need to tell you this but maybe for others who are following your thread. you seem to have amassed quite a following.

runner's depression from not running...

it's almost as bad as drug withdrawl (not saying i know how that feels, but it's probably similar).

when i couldn't run for a month, i started swimming. when it got too cold to swim, i went to the gym, hopped on a ski machine directly behind some hot chick on the stairmaster, and did that. basically, i did whatever cardio machine (elliptical, stairmaster, wall climber, rower, ski machine), gave me the best view and motivation ;)

don't worry about the stress fracture. you did wonderful in your experiment. next time, you'll learn to just increase your mileage more slowly. no biggy. you live and learn. it's also a great time to start weight training.

although i personally HATe weight training, i do it once a week. when i'm injured, maybe 3x a week. i know it keeps my muscles in check, and is good for me, but it's just so darn boring for me. but at the same time, you need to cross train, or else you'll become injured. it's a catch 22.

keep up the great work. those new shoes you got in the mail are just waiting for you to get better. hell, wear them to the gym and hit some iron ;) hahaha

don't let the depression get you down. go out, live a little. play GTA san andreas. hit the weights. give your new running shoes some love and wear them out.

you did good, and i thank you for updating as much as u did.

your going to burn 1800 from the cardio and weights alone, you are sick in the head haha

Weight: unknown
BF%: unknown

I cant believe it's day 11 already...I garentee if i wouldnt have gotten the stress fracture(s) i'd be at an easy 10% bodyfat right now. Whenever this heals, i'm doing this again.

Yesterday was a little diet mishap. Even though i only ate foods in my diet, i ate probably double the amount. I wouldnt be surprised if i hit 4000 calories yesterday. I take aderal for my retardation, which usually supresses the appitite a bit. but when im off it, its the complete opposite - i have a neverending appitite. nothing can fill me up. i ran out of pills a couple days ago, so yesterday i just kept eating and eating and eating like there was no end.

I've come to the conclusion that fat from carbs is almost a different substance when it's stored than fat from saturated fats. This feels more... smooth? i dunno how to explain it... i just think fat from carbs is more of a solid substance. i can feel it right when i wake up in the morning if i went over my body's daily calorie limit. Today i definatly felt it.

I DID do the excersize bike this morning! I popped in gladiator. i thought it would've been more motivational, but the beginning is really just story and plotbuilding (the first 45 minutes). I need a movie where the hero is some ripped guy with his shirt off kicking people's asses. like kickboxer! or maybe a steven segal movie, even though he's flabby as shit. i mean, you'd think if you were the top ranking akido master of the entire world, you would try to look the part.

Anyway - im going to step up the ECA stack to 3 times per day now. If my roomate has any of the kickboxer movies, i'll probably do cardio again today after work. (or if you guys have an idea of some movie that might motivate me, let me know!)

My character in GTA S.A. is ripped as shit! 0%fat, and my muscle meter is maxed out. i just need to work on my stamina.

(or if you guys have an idea of some movie that might motivate me, let me know!)



I have some suggestions:

The Rundown with the Rock. He basically kicks ass the enitre movie and he is huge. There is also a great scene where he is fighting a group of tree swinging (literally) brazilian fighters and they are all ripped as hell.

Chronicles of Riddick with Vin Diesel. The whole premise of this movie is, how cool is riddick? I'm not sure how much talking is in the beginning but I seem to remember a lot of action. And Vin is ripped up too.

And for a movie with non-stop action (but no one is particularly ripped) choose any Jerry Bruckheimer movie (eg. The Rock, Armageddon, BlackHawk Down, Pirates of the Carribean)

Edit: Okay, add the Scorpian King, because the Rock is that cool.

ok cool! i'll have to watch cronicals of riddick then.
im not a big fan of the rock, and "the rundown" was a horibly lame movie IMO, so i probably couldnt watch it again.

Oh, and btw - i got my GTASA guy to look EXACTLY like pac in this pic. I was very proud of it, i even yelled out for my roomate to come see. he didnt care one bit, and didnt even know who 2pac was.

http://home1.gte.net/steven1/tupac.jpg

Conan :) either one works for me...

Conan :) either one works for me...
ahhhh Schwarzenegger... good idea! I'll go buy that today! I'm sure it's in the cheap DVD rack at best buy.

ahhhh Schwarzenegger... good idea! I'll go buy that today! I'm sure it's in the cheap DVD rack at best buy.
If you can't find the Conan movies. Red Sonja is a very similar movie where he plays essentially the same character. Although I have to warn you it is pretty B movie.

Oh, and Predator! The ultimate primal movie. Everyone is kick ass ripped in that movie. Not to mention it is just a kick ass movie. Ahnold,apollo creed, jessie the body. I read that during the filming, they each had there personal gym equipment flown on location, so they could do some heavy weight reps right before a shot.

Aliens is a personal favorite of mine too. Space marines fighting aliens.

If you can't find the Conan movies. Red Sonja is a very similar movie where he plays essentially the same character. Although I have to warn you it is pretty B movie.

Oh, and Predator! The ultimate primal movie. Everyone is kick ass ripped in that movie. Not to mention it is just a kick ass movie. Ahnold,apollo creed, jessie the body. I read that during the filming, they each had there personal gym equipment flown on location, so they could do some heavy weight reps right before a shot.

Aliens is a personal favorite of mine too. Space marines fighting aliens.
There's a scene in the beginning of Predator where Arnold and Carl Weathers (Apollo Creed) shake hands and do a mid air arm wrestling type battle of wills, and I remember Arnold's guns being as big as they were back in the 70's. He said that right before that scene him and Carl were doing heavy cheat barbell curls followed up with concentration curls to maximize the pump for the shot. That was an awesome scene.

tee hee - Predator is my mom's FAVORITE movie. She's 63.

Alien V Predator wasn't half bad either, considering what I was expecting -

Yo, whoareyoume - what's up with the challenge? How is it going today?

Sorry i havnt updated in a couple days. i'm back home for funeral stuff and i guess i havnt been in the mood. Tomorrow hopfully ill give a good update. Diet is soso, kinda hard not to cheat with all these fresh home-made cookies/brownies around me..

The last time i stepped on the scale was a couple days ago and i was 174 lbs, 11% bodyfat.

bump.

bump.
ha

this is still one of my favorite nutrition theories... :bow:

this is still one of my favorite nutrition theories... :bow:
in retrospect, i think it would have worked using a bike.

in retrospect, i think it would have worked using a bike.

where would a Kenyan get a bike? I don't recall any Kenyans in the Tour de France...

Diet is soso, kinda hard not to cheat with all these fresh home-made cookies/brownies around me..

The last time i stepped on the scale was a couple days ago and i was 174 lbs, 11% bodyfat.
Did you ever eat that 5 pound tub of cookie dough?

What's your weight and body fat percentage?

i actually find this diet/routine you followed intriguing

must we flock everywhere togethor?

Maybe it should have been called "Stress fractures in 10 days or less"

must we flock everywhere togethor?

:nod:

Did you ever eat that 5 pound tub of cookie dough?
Yes, had my mommy make it into cookies, and i ate all the cookies.

What's your weight and body fat percentage?
right now it's 188 lbs, 10% bf
compared to last year's 175, 11% bf on April 1st

where would a Kenyan get a bike? I don't recall any Kenyans in the Tour de France...
good point.

Maybe it should have been called "Stress fractures in 10 days or less"
it seemed like a good idea at the time. :bang:

i actually find this diet/routine you followed intriguing
This experiment was done when i didnt know anything.
I wouldnt try it if i were you.

I still like the idea of commandeering someone's old abandoned fitness journal and using it as your own... maybe I could be Flounder or something...

I still like the idea of commandeering someone's old abandoned fitness journal and using it as your own... maybe I could pick up where TXItalian left off...

I still like the idea of commandeering someone's old abandoned fitness journal and using it as your own... maybe I could be Flounder or something...
I still like the idea of commandeering someone's old abandoned fitness journal and using it as your own... maybe I could pick up where TXItalian left off...
how many times are you going to post that? :sleep:

it's amazing how different my online personality was back then. :eek:

I still like the idea of commandeering someone's old abandoned fitness journal and using it as your own...

Brilliant idea!!!!

:claplow:

it's amazing how different my online personality was back then. :eek:

You're kidding, right? http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/crazy.gif

You're kidding, right? http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/crazy.gif

I think he is under the impression that he had a personality back then (or now for that matter).

You're kidding, right? http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/crazy.gif
You tell me... http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/ban-llama.gif

I think he is under the impression that he had a personality back then (or now for that matter).
it's true...

You tell me... http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/ban-llama.gif

Might come from having read everything within a couple weeks' time but it all sounds like the same wh0 to me. Especially after your doozy of a journal entry on 6/14. :D