Hi all, :)

Frequent reader, first time poster here. Thanks for all the great info. :tu:

I've lost a total of about 90 pounds in the last few years and I've been on Body For Life since Aug 04. I've gained some muscle and lost some fat on the program.

A previous post sparked my interest on tweaking the Body For Life program. Though, some don't recommend this.

At 5'5, 141 lbs and 22% body fat (according to mybodycomp.com) and with the direction of this forum, I've decided to do some serious cutting.

My question is how would you tweak the program for someone who has been on it for ~8 months?

I've been clean eating and am taking whey protein PWO. I workout at home with 5-50 lb dumbells and some old sand weights for legs. I weight train 3 days a week and have recently upped my fasted AM cardio to 6 days a week.

Thanks,
Mark.

Great job so far, congratulations!

First of all I believe BFL is probably the best out-of-the-box routine out there right now. And there is nowhere else that I have seen such an impact on health than what BFL and Bill is doing.

However I also believe some tweaking could make it better for a more advanced trainee, especially factoring in genetic predispositions, goals, current levels of fitness, and more (factoring in individual aspects based on each person).

First do a search for Hussman on Google. I don't have the link near me now, but Dr. Hussman's website will give you lots of info on tweaking.

My suggestions are to further break up the split into less volume and perhaps a 3-day split rather than 2 (not upper one day, lower another, but 3 days or even 4). This isn't necessary, but it helped me and I really preferred it. Concentrating on less muscles in one day seems to suit me better.

I also believe in dropping the final 2 sets of the exercise (the last 2 sets of 12 reps). Doing that alone hepled me tremendously.

PWO nutrition is one factor I wish Bill would have gotten into, and that's another way you can tweak this program. Eat a high carb, moderate protein meal after your weight lifting workouts (I like protein powder and a dextrose/maltodextrin mixture).

More later, I may be back soon. :)

Great job so far, congratulations!

Thank you and thanks for a reply.


First do a search for Hussman on Google. I don't have the link near me now, but Dr. Hussman's website will give you lots of info on tweaking.

Good, then I'm on the right track. I recently started reading this http://www.hussman.org/fitness/


My suggestions are to further break up the split into less volume and perhaps a 3-day split rather than 2 (not upper one day, lower another, but 3 days or even 4). This isn't necessary, but it helped me and I really preferred it. Concentrating on less muscles in one day seems to suit me better.

I've been reading a lot about MAX-OT. This seems similar to what you are describing. Would you recommend switching to this? I tried MAX-OT for the first time last night. I was pushing hard on those Max sets, but it didn't make me sweat as much as the BFL routine.


I also believe in dropping the final 2 sets of the exercise (the last 2 sets of 12 reps). Doing that alone hepled me tremendously.

Wow. I'm really surprised to hear that. Isn't that the main foundation behind the whole system - those last two maximum intensity sets? The exact name Bill gives them escapes me at the moment. I can't imagine the workout being intense without those.


PWO nutrition is one factor I wish Bill would have gotten into, and that's another way you can tweak this program. Eat a high carb, moderate protein meal after your weight lifting workouts (I like protein powder and a dextrose/maltodextrin mixture).

Since I usually lift between 6-7 PM, I've been having a protein shake immediately after my workout and then a small dinner (chicken, fish, etc., with a complex carb) about two hours later.

The protein shake usually consists of:

•2 Cups of Skim Milk
•1 Tbsp of Peanut Butter
•1/2 Cup of Blueberries
•2 Tbsp Plain Yogurt
•1 Scoop (ON) Whey Protein

Thank you and thanks for a reply.
You're welcome!


Good, then I'm on the right track. I recently started reading this http://www.hussman.org/fitness/
Cool, Hussman has some interesting and helpful info over there.


I've been reading a lot about MAX-OT. This seems similar to what you are describing. Would you recommend switching to this? I tried MAX-OT for the first time last night. I was pushing hard on those Max sets, but it didn't make me sweat as much as the BFL routine.
Personally I prefer MAXOT over BFL, but BFL is easier to stick with. I also think it's been put together well with the book and the other books and the available info and help out there. But MAXOT is much more similar to my style than BFL is I suppose, though my volume is way lower than MAXOT pushes.


Wow. I'm really surprised to hear that. Isn't that the main foundation behind the whole system - those last two maximum intensity sets? The exact name Bill gives them escapes me at the moment. I can't imagine the workout being intense without those.
It may be part of the foundation, I don't know. I know I'd get blown away in a debate with Bill, and I respect what he's done. As I've stated before I think he's made one of the biggest impacts on this industry and on the health of the world in general.

Dropping those last 2 sets worked well for me though. I ran 4 working sets for each muscle group and lifted really high intensity for those 4 sets. Who says the 2 sets of 12 have to be the highest intensity sets? Make your 4 sets of 12-10-8-6 high intensity! :)

Concentrating on only 4 sets seemed to help me a lot. I noticed that my last 2 sets of 12 seemed to demonstrate more fatigue than overload, at least for me anyway. As you research more and more you'll read different opinions on this whole thing, and some will say that those 2 sets further increase your intensity and muscular overload, but for me it didn't. Could be the way I did them though, who knows.

I'm not a big fan of drop sets and supersets to begin with and those last 2 sets sorta felt like that to me. As you seem to be familiar with MAXOT you'll notice some of their logic behind my post here. And I agreed with Paul's opinions on more sets of lighter weight demonstrating muscular fatigue rather than overload. Okay, now we have the argument before us which is basically "so what, it doesn't matter because you'll still grow!" Maybe, I don't know. Bottom line is dropping those last 2 sets seemed to help me.

Furthermore the halting of pyramiding also helped me tweak further. Again you're probably reading MAXOT logic in my post, lol. I'm not trying to push you in their direction but I guess my style is sorta similar to theirs.

Since I usually lift between 6-7 PM, I've been having a protein shake immediately after my workout and then a small dinner (chicken, fish, etc., with a complex carb) about two hours later.

The protein shake usually consists of:

•2 Cups of Skim Milk
•1 Tbsp of Peanut Butter
•1/2 Cup of Blueberries
•2 Tbsp Plain Yogurt
•1 Scoop (ON) Whey Protein
You and I run similar schedules. I lift at night too, slam a shake immediately after the session and eat a meal an hour or 2 later. Personally I'd opt for a shake without milk myself but some might argue against this. I also don't like mixing fat and carbs too much but again there's another highly debatable subject. My post workout shake consists of whey protein, dextrose, maltodextrin, and water. I'm a big guy (218) and I am bulking, so my shake is pretty big too, and I also do a 3:1 ratio of carbs: protein. Some like 2:1, some even 1:1. I also center the majority of daily carb intake around workout time, not all daily carbs, but most (before workout, during workout [malto], after workout, and some after that during that meal), so LOTS of carbs get put down at this time for me.

You'll see results running BFL by the book I have no doubt. You'll also see results running MAXOT by the book, or HIT, or even some others. If you're new to this whole thing I'd personally recommend BFL. When friends of mine who don't exercise or know much about eating right ask me for help I quite often loan them my BFL book. It's very simple once you get going. I don't really recommend one start tweaking until they get more advanced and know their body well.

Additionally, for some the help of a good trainer is also recommended. Sometimes a good trainer goes a long way.

Check out phil kaplan and his program at www.philkaplan.com


from what I hear the body for life program is a complete rip off from phil. I'm pretty sure it even ended up in court. Phil has a weekly radio show that is available on his website (for free) and he has said many times that the BFL program is great at first but then when you need to fine tune it you should give his stuff a try.


Sorry to pimp the guy so much but he has done more for my weight loss than anyone on the planet. No cheesy gimics just the cold hard truth. I remeber hearing him on a local radio station years ago pimping the 6 meals a day thing and they almost laughed him out of the studio. :d_wink:

Phil's wrong, it's not a rip off. Is it pefect for everyone? Of course not; common sense tells you that!

As to him pushing 6-meals a day, I don't know who would laugh him out of the studio because bodybuilders were doing this decades ago.

His programs and product might be fantastic, I don't know. But if he is making a name for himself by putting down others then I'm already going to be skeptical.



Check out phil kaplan and his program at www.philkaplan.com


from what I hear the body for life program is a complete rip off from phil. I'm pretty sure it even ended up in court. Phil has a weekly radio show that is available on his website (for free) and he has said many times that the BFL program is great at first but then when you need to fine tune it you should give his stuff a try.


Sorry to pimp the guy so much but he has done more for my weight loss than anyone on the planet. No cheesy gimics just the cold hard truth. I remeber hearing him on a local radio station years ago pimping the 6 meals a day thing and they almost laughed him out of the studio. :d_wink:

Phil's wrong, it's not a rip off. Is it pefect for everyone? Of course not; common sense tells you that!



The guy that runs the BFL program went to kaplan to help come up with a program.... Phil came up with something called fit for life. The guy said he wasn't interested in the program and the split paths. A few months later body for life came out and was almost word for word with fit for life. Kaplan didn't go into exact details but it sound like phil settled out of court.


sounds like he has a reason to be pissed off if dude is making millions off of the program :d_wink:

And i'm not dumb enough to think phil came up with the whole 6 meals a day thing, it was just the first time i have ever heard it.

LOL. Well I just spoke with a friend of mine who's worked with Bill and EAS, and he said he's heard nothing about this. However he also had positive things to say about Phil, said he was a nice guy and said that he knew his stuff.

Interesting...

By the way -- "I'm not dumb enough to think" -- I NEVER said you were dumb and I never thought that by any means. If I came off like that I apologize, but I don't see how you could take it that way. Still, if you did then I apologize.

And listen, if you want to continue this further please start a new thread. I'd be happy to join in on the debate there, but I do not want to derail this thread anymore as someone is looking for help here and it's not fair to him. There are some knowledgeable people on this forum, some who work in this industry even, and I'm sure they'd have some interesting things to say if you start up a new thread.

:D

The guy that runs the BFL program went to kaplan to help come up with a program.... Phil came up with something called fit for life. The guy said he wasn't interested in the program and the split paths. A few months later body for life came out and was almost word for word with fit for life. Kaplan didn't go into exact details but it sound like phil settled out of court.


sounds like he has a reason to be pissed off if dude is making millions off of the program :d_wink:

And i'm not dumb enough to think phil came up with the whole 6 meals a day thing, it was just the first time i have ever heard it.

Ah the irony. Max-OT is the tweak I made to BFL.

I do the warm-up/weight acclimation and then heavy, low rep sets. But I am definitely in the “intermediate” weight training group. Additionally, all of my successful training from the past utilized this philosophy, start light with high reps then end heavy with low reps. My physiology responds well that that kind of thing. And the HIIT cardio in between is remarkably similar to what I was doing based on Covert Bailey’s wind sprint philosophy.

My other tweak is not using the EAS sups. Sucralose and I do not agree. Plus I am a whole, organic foods kind of person and yes I cook. A lot.

My entire purpose for giving BFL a shot is not to just lose weight. I was losing weight at a steady and healthy rate already. The problem was I was losing LBM and fat equally. I want to keep as much of my muscle as possible so I started looking around for ideas. After an unsuccessful round of emails with Tom Venuto about BFFM, I settled on BFL.