I used to do cardio in the morning on an empty stomach, but I am finding it increasingly harder to do so. When I wake up I am usually not in a great mood at all, and find it very difficult to do my early morning cardio.

I started doing my cardio after my workout the other day, and I had no problem finishing it at all. However, I am currently trying to lose some weight before I have surgery in 50 days. I'm currently 6 feet and 190 pounds, and I want to get down to 178 pounds or so within the next 7 weeks.

The only day I do my cardio in the morning is on my leg day, because I can't do it after my workout. If I started doing cardio post workout on 2 days of my 3 day split, and empty stomach morning cardio for one, how much will I be hindering my results? I'd like to get optimal results, so if there is a big difference I will probably switch back. However, at the moment I am finding it extremely difficult.

Also, currently I have a protein shake before and after my workout. Then about two to three hours later I have dinner after the workout. Is this a good setup? or should I be doing it a different way? My protein shake usually contains 450 ML of skim milk, 2 scoops of protein powder, a bunch of blueberries, and flax oil.

You will hear opinions for both sides of this, but I strongly believe that consistency matters more than when you do it. I like to lift 1st thing in the morning, so I usually do cardio in the evening, this has not hindered my progress one bit. There is not one set right and wrong way to do things, it is whatever works for you.
Dropping 12lbs in 7 weeks is doable, providing your diet is spot on, in addition to exercise. Do you have to get down to 178 specifically for the surgery?
In regards to your shake question. I like to have a shake post workout, followed by a meal an hour afterwards. If you are having 2 shakes per day with all the ingredients listed, that seems like a good chunk of calories personally. I like to get most of my protein from "real" sources to take advantage of the thermic effect that liquid just does not provide.

good luck!

Jason

I do not need to get my weight down for the surgery. It is just a goal that I have :)

I don't actually make two protein shakes a day. The amount that the jug has in it from making one protein shake (which is 450 ML of milk + blueberries + flax oil + 2 scoops of protein) is enough to fill up about one and a half cups. So I do one cup before my workout, and half after. Then a meal about 2 hours post workout.

Currently my meal setup is like this:

Morning: breakfast - special K w/ skim milk, 2 multivirtamins, water. 8 AM

Lunch: Chicken (skinless) 2-3 pieces and veggies.

3PM or so - Protein shake

4PM - workout

6PM - half a cup of protein shake.

7PM - 2-3 pieces of skinless chicken and veggies. 1 Multivitamin.

10PM - sleeping.

I think you might find your early am mood would improve if you added some more carbs, like fruit and vegetables to you diet. Alot of multi vitamins arent easily absorbed without some of these real foods in your diet.

I do not need to get my weight down for the surgery. It is just a goal that I have :)

I don't actually make two protein shakes a day. The amount that the jug has in it from making one protein shake (which is 450 ML of milk + blueberries + flax oil + 2 scoops of protein) is enough to fill up about one and a half cups. So I do one cup before my workout, and half after. Then a meal about 2 hours post workout.

Currently my meal setup is like this:

Morning: breakfast - special K w/ skim milk, 2 multivirtamins, water. 8 AM

Lunch: Chicken (skinless) 2-3 pieces and veggies.

3PM or so - Protein shake

4PM - workout

6PM - half a cup of protein shake.

7PM - 2-3 pieces of skinless chicken and veggies. 1 Multivitamin.

10PM - sleeping.
If you're drinking that shake after your weight training, you're shortchanging the gains you might get with a better, PWO shake.

http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=12678&highlight=post-cardio

If you're drinking that shake after your cardio session, you're immediately stopping the fat-burning that you started with the cardio, and shooting yourself in the foot.

http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?p=115220#post115220

How many calories are you taking in? It looks like your protein intake is insane, low fats, and your only carbs are from morning special K and milk (veggies are very low). Have you figured out your macros? A 40/40/20 split works well for many people, and some like 50/30/20, others 40/20/40 (but I'm a grump when I do that).

If those "chicken pieces" are full breasts, you are getting too much protein per meal- your body will excrete the unused protein. Generally 40gm per meal is recommended. Spread your meals/cals out throughout the day more. Throw in more veggies, and complex, low GI carbs like brown rice and old fashioned oats. Don't listen to the Atkins crowd- you WILL lose weight with carbs. You need them if you are lifting.

Is your workout 2 hrs long? That might be pushing the limits, in my opinion, but of course we all do it (some more than others). Ditch the flax from the pwo shake, and put it on some salad in a later meal.

Also, your multivitamin- is it a three a day? Spread that out too. If you take two at once, you probably are also excreting the vitamins and minerals that can not be absorbed.



I do not need to get my weight down for the surgery. It is just a goal that I have :)

I don't actually make two protein shakes a day. The amount that the jug has in it from making one protein shake (which is 450 ML of milk + blueberries + flax oil + 2 scoops of protein) is enough to fill up about one and a half cups. So I do one cup before my workout, and half after. Then a meal about 2 hours post workout.

Currently my meal setup is like this:

Morning: breakfast - special K w/ skim milk, 2 multivirtamins, water. 8 AM

Lunch: Chicken (skinless) 2-3 pieces and veggies.

3PM or so - Protein shake

4PM - workout

6PM - half a cup of protein shake.

7PM - 2-3 pieces of skinless chicken and veggies. 1 Multivitamin.

10PM - sleeping.

I appreciate youir input a great deal.

What would be some good ways I can alter my current meal status and get enough carbs? Also, the chicken is small breasts.

If I added a salad to both the chicken meals, and brown rice to the dinner, spread out my multivitamins to breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Would I be doing better?

Or, one other option to up my carbs would be to get a subway sub (whole wheat bread, roasted chicken, all veggies, no sauces) for lunch. Would that be a good idea? or is subway not a good idea?

I am very new to this, so I don't have any macronutrients figured out yet :(

Also, my workout is two hours. It is about 1 hour and 15 minutes lifting, and 45 minutes on the bike after. On leg days I do my cardio in the morning adn my lifting at night.

I have tried both methods. I was always a postworkout cardio person until Swolecat mentioned that it's not good to do cardio after lifting. I switched to cardio first thing in the morning and I've found MUCH better results than after my workout. It's hard and it sucks dragging there to do it, but the rewards outweigh the negative.

I have tried both methods. I was always a postworkout cardio person until Swolecat mentioned that it's not good to do cardio after lifting. I switched to cardio first thing in the morning and I've found MUCH better results than after my workout. It's hard and it sucks dragging there to do it, but the rewards outweigh the negative.
:tucool: Yep!

Good to see you around again BBN.

OK, here is the explanation by Swolecat for doing cardio in the morning:



Protein/fat literally as soon as you finish cardio, and carbs/pro about 30-45 mins after cardio. Reason being, once the carbs enter the bloodstream and there is a release in insulin (even LOW GI carbs) that blunts ALL lipolysis (fat burning)

Hence the reason cardio after weights does no good for fat burning, as the post-workout meals (usually two carb/pro offerings) need to be consumed as quickly as possible, thus stopping fat burning in it's tracks. The amount of fat burned on the treadmill or similar apparatus for 30 mins after lifting is not nearly as productive/important as replinishing muscle glycogen and beginning the repair process after weight training. You have an window of opportunity that you want to take full advantage of, and you should do that right after weights, not go and perform cardio, thus leading yourself into a further state of catabolism.

As Karatetricker said, find what works for you. If you want MY suggestion, it's far more wise to keep AEROBICS apart from ANAEROBICS to reap the full productivity of both. I'd never short-change my recovery and halt catabolism to hop on a treadmill/bike to do 30 mins. of cardio. It's far more important to me to take care of the anabolism/muscle repair/building time, as that is crucial to the preservation/gain of lean muscle mass.

When cardio is done a.m. and you eat fat/pro after cardio, you can literally ride the wave of lipolysis (fat burning) for MANY hours after. So, a simple 40-45 minute session of 65-75% of MHR not only burns fat while ON the apparatus for that duration, but WELL AFTER you are done! That can't happen when you do this after weights, and slam down carb/protein meals as needs to be done. There is a rhyme/reason for each type of activity and they each include their own nutritional protocol as well.


~SC~

:tucool: Yep!

Good to see you around again BBN.
Thanks. What's goin' on dude? Glad to be back. Things have slowed down once again and more time to play on the net. :nod:

BTW, I have a friend from school that just recently moved to Orlando. His girlfriend works at a country club down there. I'm thinking he's teachings. The wise-ass has to remind us everday what the temp is after asking us what it is here in IL. After my reply that it was 45 he'll say something like "it got a little chilly here today. About 60 degrees" :d_mad:

I appreciate your input, I guess it would probably be best if I do it in the morning in that case.

I did have one question though. Swolecat mentions you should have some protein/fat right after a cardio workout, could you give me some examples of this? If I recall correctly he says have carbs/protein 45 minutes after cardio. Is there any chance anyone knows what a good, portable, source of carbs/protein is?

BTW, I have a friend from school that just recently moved to Orlando. His girlfriend works at a country club down there. I'm thinking he's teachings. The wise-ass has to remind us everday what the temp is after asking us what it is here in IL. After my reply that it was 45 he'll say something like "it got a little chilly here today. About 60 degrees" :d_mad:


it's 70 today.. sorry I had to :p

it's 70 today.. sorry I had to :p

Blah!!!!!!!!!! You people are killing me!!!!!!!!! I can retire at 50 and have asked my wife if we could move to move to Florida or the Cayman Islands when I retire, but she doesn't want to because she'd miss her family. BOO Freaking HOO!!!!!!!! :d_mad:

I appreciate your input, I guess it would probably be best if I do it in the morning in that case.

I did have one question though. Swolecat mentions you should have some protein/fat right after a cardio workout, could you give me some examples of this? If I recall correctly he says have carbs/protein 45 minutes after cardio. Is there any chance anyone knows what a good, portable, source of carbs/protein is?
In reference here, and to your previous question about how to up the carbs in your diet. Complex carbohydrates are generally healthier for you than simple carbs. They take much longer to digest and often - but not always - contain a good amount of vitamins, minerals, and fiber.

By far the best (ie 'healthiest') complex carbs are vegetables and legumes (beans, peas, etc). This includes one of my favorites, sweet potatoes. Usually, when people speak of 'good' carbs, those are what they're referring to. The next best form of complex carbohydrates is whole-grain oatmeal, breads, cereals, and pastas. These provide lots of fiber and should be consumed in small amount several times per day.

Finally, breads, pastas, and cereals made from refined 'enriched' white flour are the worst type of complex carb to eat. They cause many of the same negative effects in the body as simple 'sugar-based' carbohydrates. These carbs should be avoided for the most part.

These are just a few examples of complex carbohydrates but they should give you a good idea of what types of food to base your diet around.

I think you'll find many of these are portable. If you have a microwave where you're going, you can do what I do nearly every day: I Bring 80g of oatmeal with me to work in a Ziploc bag. I keep a bowl at work, add oatmeal & water, microwave, and presto! If you don't have a microwave or you're going to be on the road, diced sweet potatoes only take 10-15 minutes to boil ahead of time, and keep for a week or more in the fridge (I've never had them stick around that long, though!)

Some people also pre-mix their oatmeal with extra water and transport that around in a bottle, drinking it more like a shake than like a semi-solid hot cereal. I've never tried it so don't know how tasty it is.

Your plans to add salad to your chicken meals & rice to dinner is a better option than the Subway one. Salad will add a lot of nutrients but not many carbs or calories. They're still good carbs, though, just not enough to build up a big chunk of your day's calories. Re-post your revised diet plan once you've made those changes and checked all your macronutrients (how much fat, carb & protein) and calories & adjusted the quanities to fit your plan.

Appreciate everyone’s input. I have done what Gillisc said and I am now back!

Here is my new set up, however, I am missing some ideas for a few meals. Previously I’ve been home all day so putting together a meal was easy. I am going to be starting a job next week for a few months where I will be doing construction work. I’ll be out of the house by 7 AM and I Won’t be home until Dinner. So I’ll need to be able to take all my food with me and there’s no microwave where I will be working. I will, however, have a cooler to keep anything cool that I need to. Taste and the food being appeasing isn’t really that big of a concern to me, it doesn’t need to be tasty… just healthy.

I read that right after cardio you should eat something with protein/fat, and then something with protein/carbs about 45 minutes later.

If I had 3 hard-boiled eggs right after my cardio (by immediately after my cardio does it really mean as soon as I can eat them? Or is there a certain time frame I should wait?)

Cardio 5:15AM-6:00 AM – Stationary Bike, ~170 HR
~6:10 AM – 3 hard boiled eggs
7:00 – Half of a protein bar (There’s a bit of carbs in this. Should I be going with something more focused on carbs? I still have to buy a bunch of new bars, so I’ll get the nutrition information up as soon as I get another bar.)

10:00 – Protein Shake (300 ML or so) Protein shake consists of skim milk (450ML) blueberries, 2 scoops of powder, and flax oil.

12:00-1:00 – Lunch, I need some ideas about what I can eat here. Preferably something that is easily portable.

3:00 – Salad (Anything I should use in particular on my salad? Or is lettuce, cucumbers, tomatoes, and carrots sufficient?)

5:00 – 150 ML of Protein Shake

6:00 – 7:00 – Workout in gym

8:00 – Chicken with veggies.

9:30 – Sleeping

I haven’t been able to check what the macronutrient values are, and the calories. What would be a good way to check all of this. Also, what macro nutrient breakdown should I aim for considering I want to cut?

Thank you again for all your help! :)

I read that right after cardio you should eat something with protein/fat, and then something with protein/carbs about 45 minutes later.

If I had 3 hard-boiled eggs right after my cardio (by immediately after my cardio does it really mean as soon as I can eat them? Or is there a certain time frame I should wait?)
It isn’t strictly necessary to eat something immediately after cardio, as it is necessary to eat something after lifting (assuming you want to take advantage of the post-workout recovery & growth phases). The reason for eating after cardio is that you have to eat again eventually. If you’re eating 6 smallish meals a day, as you should, it can’t be all that long between cardio and your next meal. When that next meal comes, it could consist of carbs as long as it’s around 45 minutes or more after your cardio is done; or if it’s consumed closer to the end of your cardio session, should contain only protein & fat. I think that’s a more complete explanation of what you said, with the correct reasoning, as I understand it.

10:00 – Protein Shake (300 ML or so) Protein shake consists of skim milk (450ML) blueberries, 2 scoops of powder, and flax oil.
Good that you've got this early on while things in the cooler are still cool. Flax oil will degrade if left unrefridgerated for too long, or if exposed to sunlight for too long.

Here is my new set up, however, I am missing some ideas for a few meals. Previously I’ve been home all day so putting together a meal was easy. I am going to be starting a job next week for a few months where I will be doing construction work. I’ll be out of the house by 7 AM and I Won’t be home until Dinner. So I’ll need to be able to take all my food with me and there’s no microwave where I will be working. I will, however, have a cooler to keep anything cool that I need to. Taste and the food being appeasing isn’t really that big of a concern to me, it doesn’t need to be tasty… just healthy.
Here are some of the meals I’ve packed & brought with me this week, that can be eaten cold. They do need to be cooked ahead of time, and then refrigerated. Of course, some may taste better warm, but you said taste is secondary:

sweet potatoes, boiled without skin (300g)
chicken, roasted breast (160g)
mixed vegetables, (kidney beans, chickpeas, green beans) (160g)
Calories: 558
Fat: 2.3g
(Saturated Fat: 0.1g)
Carbohydrates: 73.2g
(Fiber: 15.0g)
(Sugar: 21.3g)
Protein: 57.8g

Tuna, solid white in water - Bumblebee (76g)
salad dressing, Bellissimo Italian - Cains (26g)
peanuts, roasted unsalted - Stop & Shop (36g)
Calories: 441
Fat: 32.7g
(Saturated Fat: 4.2g)
Carbohydrates: 8.9g
(Fiber: 3.1g)
(Sugar: 0.9g)
Protein: 30.6g

rice, brown, minute - Kraft (70g)
chicken, roasted breast (80g)
marinara sauce, tomato & basil light - Ragu (150g)
Calories: 442
Fat: 5.2g
(Saturated Fat: 1.2g)
Carbohydrates: 63.7g
(Fiber: 5.7g)
(Sugar: 6.0g)
Protein: 32.7g

turkey jerkey, original - Jack Link's (65g)
peanuts, roasted unsalted - Stop & Shop (50g)
Calories: 486
Fat: 25.4g
(Saturated Fat: 2.9g)
Carbohydrates: 17.0g
(Fiber: 4.3g)
(Sugar: 7.0g)
Protein: 49.1g

salmon, pink - Chicken of the Sea (200g)
almonds, plain unroasted unsalted (55g)
Calories: 526
Fat: 34.6g
(Saturated Fat: 5.4g)
Carbohydrates: 9.2g
(Fiber: 7.3g)
(Sugar: 1.8g)
Protein: 48.5g

Finally, you may want to look into that issue of post-workout recovery & give a second look at your chicken & veggie meal. Good stuff but you may want something faster-acting first. Sorry don't have time to post links, look in the bulking/cutting stickies & search on "PWO" or "PWO shake"

Thanks again for the great information gillisc. I actually just found out about fitday and some other related sites where I can take a look into the nutritional values of foods. I'll try and post a more in depth analysis tommorow (also taking into cosnideration some of the foods you ahve reccomended).

Thanks for all of your help, it is greatly appreciated.