Ok, coming off a 16%->9.x% cut, and feeling a little too skinny. I used to walk into places and feel like a big guy. Now even though I have the same lean mass that I had 3 months ago, I no longer feel physically dominating. I need to get that feeling back again!

I have a cruise coming up in April and the last thing I want to do is add back the fat I just busted butt to lose, so I'm looking to do a program that falls between maintenance and full-on bulking. I have 7 weeks until the cruise (leave April 16th), so I was think of something like 4 weeks of a moderate bulk, followed by 2 weeks of cut (mostly to shed water from creatine), and 1 week of maintenance.

Firstly, I'd like feedback on this plan. Does this make sense at all? Is it feasible to put on some muscle in 4 weeks without adding ANY fat? I'm up for the challenge!

Current stats:
--------------
Weight: 192lbs
bf: 9.7%
waist: 32"
chest: 40"
forearm: 11.5"
bicep: 14.5"
thigh: 26"
calf: 20"

Target stats:
-------------
Weight: who cares. it will certainly be more than 192
Bodyfat: <10%
Waist: <=32"
Chest: 42"
forearm: 12"
bicep: 15.5"
thigh: 27"
calf: 20"

Anyone up for this?

Hmmmm....sounds tempting. I need to think it over for a day. I am in a similar situation:

My bf% is getting down there, but I'm not sure if I am as low as I want to be yet. I am starting to feel a bit small, also. I am going to Mexico in mid-April (hopefully), and it has been a goal of mine for some time to look as good as possible for that trip.

I am shorter than you -- 5'9", about 160 pounds. Every method I have of measuring my body fat tells me I am sub-9%, but I still have a bit of fat around my navel and lower back handles; I don't have quite the ab definition I would like, yet. Everywhere else, I am very lean.

Arms: 14.1 (right), 14.2 (left)
Thigh: 21.6
Chest: 42
Waist, at navel: 30.5 / at smallest point: 30 / below the navel: 31.5
Hips: 36

I really need to build my arms, legs, and butt big time. A bit more on the chest wouldn't hurt either, since much of my chest measurement is due to a large rib cage and pretty good lats. When I decide to bulk for sure, my goals will be to achieve some specific symmetry as described by the classic greek ideals.

Your challenge is tempting because I have been planning on doing a controlled, lean bulk as soon as I am satisfied with my fat loss. And, I think that I may be able to lose a little fat if I get in the zone just right.

Thinking about it.......

Hi Joe,

Good Luck on your new challenge. However, I think you had a small typo of 30 inches for your calf (from 20). You may want to correct that but the picture in my head with you with a 32 inch waist and 2 * 30 inch calves is a bit amusing :lol:

Anyone that takes on this challenge with Joe, make sure you are ready for the dedication. Joe is both a winner at the challenge, and a team player for motivating other challengees.

Good Luck Joe!

Mark

of 30 inches for your calf (from 20). You may want to correct that but the picture in my head with you with a 32 inch waist and 2 * 30 inch calves is a bit amusing :lol:
Mark
Haha! What's make you so sure it's a typo? Maybe I've got a "white-men-can't-jump" complex. Imagine how high you could jump with 30" calves...

Well Joe, my trip is definitely on for mid-April. So, my goal is to look as good as possible sans-clothes.

Our circumstances seem really similar, I just don't feel like I am quite as lean as I would like. So I am going back-and-forth considering your challenge.

Here's what I'm looking at: I need to gain some lean without ANY fat. In fact, I would like to burn a little fat in the process if possible. Perhaps that can happen for a couple weeks at the end. But in order to only gain lean, I am going to haft to eat just a little over maintenance on workout days, and pretty close to maintenance (or a little under) on cardio days.

So, I am in, if you're still up for it. What are the conditions?

Maybe something like this: we judge on measurements. Increases in waist/abdominal measurements count against us, increases in arms/legs/chest/shoulders count for us. So, maybe we deal with total inches--add up arms/legs/chest/shoulder increases, and subtract waist/abdominal increases. Maybe the waist/abdominal measurements should be doubled or tripled, something like that (extra incentive to keep it off!). :tu: Total inches wins. What do you think?

And what do you think the stakes should be?

I suppose I will need to post some pics for reference....I will try to do that soon, if you are still interested in the challenge...

In reply to your original question, I think some gains are certainly possible in a month. Personally, I would hope for about 1/2 an inch on my shoulders, arms, and legs, and maybe an inch on my chest and shoulders.

If you are still interested, we can start tomorrow. I will measure and post my stats tomorrow morning.

Oh yeah, one more thing. I leave for my trip on the 13th of April. So the 12th would be my last day to measure. That gives me just under 6 weeks.

LeftNut (I chuckle whenever I read that. Does this make me the RightNut?) -

You're on! I've been hedging on the bulk as well. On Monday I ate 3000 calories and I felt like a pig! I slid them back to 2700. I also do not want to add ANY fat since I do not think I'm near my target leanness. I also was thinking about sliding into a maintenance or even a short cut the last couple of weeks, maybe starting April 1. So it sounds like we are interested in exactly the same thing, and exactly the same schedule.

I think the inch-score makes a lot of sense. The formula would be something like

(currentchest-initialchest) + (currentbicep-initialbicep) + ... + ... + (initialwaist-currentwaist)*2

Let's do it. It sounds like we both have a pretty good base to build on, so a focused effort for 4-5 weeks should yield some positive results.

Cool! April 1 sounds like a good ending date, but no April fools! :)

Maybe I will PM you about my screen name...not sure if the rest of the forum wants to hear about it. :lol: Sort of a funny story...

Care to set any stakes? I mean, it could just be something fun, like the loser has to post a pic to the forum wearing nothing but Sponge Bob boxers, or something like that. :o

Where do you want to take the waist measurement? Personally, I have been doing it at navel level (this is my problem area).

Also, what other sites? Bicep, chest, shoulders, thigh would be good for me. Care to add any? I assume all measurements would be taken cold and flexed?

Here's a couple pics that I took today. I am a little bloated from last night's massive cheat. :o For some reason, I always look way better in the morning. But I'm not about to drag my wife out of bed at 4:30am to take pictures just for the sake of my narcissism. :lol:

Dude you're funny. Spongebob boxers... Ok I'm game for that. Lets leave a little room for creativity and say any kind of underwear with any cartoon character.

Let's say chest across the fullest part of the pecs, biceps across the fullest portion, thighs across fullest portion, and waist right at the navel. Yes, cold and flexed, although I'm curious about how much the numbers would differ when pumped - but those numbers won't count.

You look pretty strong. You have the same exact height and build as my friend who is a Mass. state trooper. Even has the shaved head.

My pics are here:
http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?p=126733#post126733

I always look better in the morning also. Its from dehydration I think. Once I wake up I start the day with a quart of water so I immediately plump up. But yeah at that time in the morning I certainly am not ready to be posing for pictures.

Going to measure shoulders now...

Ok here's my stats for today :
-------------------
Weight: 191lbs
bf: 10.1%
waist: 32.25"
chest: 40"
bicep: 14.5"
thigh: 26"
shoulders: 46"

Not quite a Greek god's proportions, but I'm making progress ;) My chest is definately pulling me down. I feel a rounder fuller chest would do wonders for my overall shape. It has always been my weak area - but then again, I've never dialed in my nutrition like I have now.

Curious, what are your target nutrional parameters? Calories, protein grames, ratios... I'm going for 2700 calories, f/c/p = 30/30/40. I know there is no concensus on the requisite grams of protein, but I feel that the high protein diet allowed me to keep my muscle while cutting on 2000 calories/day.

Oh yeah, one more thing - I started Creatine Monohydrate 3 days ago. 2 more days of loading to go.

Toonz skivvies it is! I've got some good ones, but maybe I should lend them to you...I don't think I'll be needing them. ;)

Ok, I am psyched. Here are my starting stats:
----------------------------
Age: 34
Weight: 160.6
BF: the latest measurements average at 8.5%
Waist: 30.5"
Chest: 43"
Bicep: 14 1/8 (14.125)
Thigh: 21.6"
Shoulders: 50"

I have been taking creatine also, just started a month ago. I noticed an increase in strength, and some extra bloat. The verdict is still out.

I think I am going to need to ease up to my target calories. In theory, my maintenance should be 2700-2800. But in my experience, I think that's probably too high for me. I am going to start closer to 2400-2600 on lifting days for the first week, and 2200 on off days. I always get at least 200g protein, and try for 20% fat. So that works out to approximately 45c/35p/20f, depending on the total number of cals. I'm not big on ratios, I just try to get enough good protein and fat, and fill the rest in with quality carbs. I tend to think that plenty of protein serves me well, also.

You've done a great job with your cut by the way, looking really good. :tu: A little more mass and you will be a monster. Wish I had some of that height.

Do you track your calories daily? It might be fun to exchange diet logs. I've kept an anal-retentive accounting of my every bit since December, and I believe that was one of the keys to success in cutting. It would be interesting to see how daily habits translate into a month long challenge.

You wish you had the height eh? Do you have any idea how hard it is to find jeans with 32 waist, 36 inseam? :) And also, its the height that makes it tough to fill out - but I'll take the good with the bad, and I'll accept it as my personal challenge.


:( I think the reason I've had mediocre results after 3 years of training is that I've been in a perpetual state of trying to get stronger and trying to lose fat at the same time. My approach was unfocused and slightly schizo. All that changed in December, and I made more changes to my physique in 2 months than I had in the previous 24.

Now I get to see how I do at bulking...

gonna work hard :db: gonna eat :eat: gonna study :read:

2005 is the year!

I do track everything I eat. I have been using this software called BodyFitDB for about 6 months now, and I'm still not sure if I like it or not. :confused: But I have all of the foods I normally eat in there, so it works for now. The reporting is kind of weird, but I could probably do screen shots. We would just need a way to send stuff....email would be fine for me.

Well, it would be nice to have a *little* more height, anyway. But I'll take what I've got....I have my own challenges also. :)

I can totally echo the bit about spinning your wheels for a period of time. I was in the same boat for a couple years.

Today was cardio day, so I'm not going crazy on the calories. I am planning on hitting about 2200 today. Tomorrow is back day, and Saturday is leg day, so I'll be bumping the cals up.

I think I'm with ya on cutting back the calories on non-lifting days. I'm at 2700-2800 now on lifting days. I'll trim back to 2400 on non-lifting days.

What are you doing for cardio? HIIT? 70% mhr? 30-60 minutes? I'm wondering if I should even do ANY unless I start to see more fat gain than I'd like.

Well, I am going to continue my most recent cardio: spinning class 2x's/week, and 75% MHR elliptical machine for 50 minutes on one day. The spinning class is actually pretty intense, at least I make it that way. If I see no size differences the first week, I will up the calories a couple hundred per day.

I have been doing this amount of cardio lately, and my weight has stayed pretty constant for the last few weeks. So I am hoping the increased calories will make the difference. The thing that keeps me from dropping the cardio, is that I decreased my cardio during a 2-month bulk last year, and I got fatter than I wanted. Of course, I ate at least 3200 calories per day also...not all of them the cleanest.

So I may regret it, but I am easing up to this one. Recently, my strength has been increasing each week on every exercise, on 2000 calories per day. So I am thinking that I shouldn't need to do too much in order to start seeing some gains.

I've been in the habit of weighin and measuring in on Saturday mornings, so here goes

Weight: 196lbs
bf: 11.1%
waist: 32.25"
chest: 41"
bicep: 14.5"
thigh: 26.5"
shoulders: 46"

So my weight has jumped up a bit. Thats a gain of 6 pounds from a week ago. Most definately water, and certainly from the Creatine. I wonder if some of that will shed now that the loading phase has ended. This affected my caliper measurements, which put me at 11.1% today. I definately look and feel smooth and squishy this morning, and my wedding band is tight. Quizzically, my waist is steady. I did post a modest gain on my chest measurement - possibly intramuscular water and residual swelling - I am VERY sore from my last workout.

Anyway, proceeding as expected. I'm not going to fret about the bf% gain since I know its really water at this point.

Today is my 1 hour at 70% day. Gives me time to finish listening to "The 8th Habit" on my MP3 player...

Cool, Joe. From what I have heard, that 6 pounds is well within the normal weight gain with a loading phase. It's a good sign that your waist measurement stayed the same.

I bet some subcutaneous water bloat is throwing the caliper measurements off. I see that all the time with mine.

Today was my heavier eating day. I ate normal portions until dinner. Then I had a big black bean empanada, a portabella quesadilla, and a potato pancake. I'm up to about 3000 calories today, as planned. No more 'carb loading' for me until next Saturday night.

My calories are coming in a bit higher, yesterday was closer to 2700. This week I have actually lost weight. My waist measurement is already down about a quarter of an inch. I could just be getting over Monday's cheat meal, I don't know.

I have some pretty good DOMS from yesterday's back/bicep workout, and I had a good leg workout this morning. Tomorrow it's 50 minutes of 75% MHR on the elliptical. Funny thing, I usually turn on the Food Channel when I do steady cardio. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. :lol:

Wow your waist is DOWN a quarter inch! That's awesome, especially since it was already pretty slim. Watch out for that late night eating. The reason I was 16% bf 3 months ago is not because I was eating too much or eating the wrong food, it was because I was eating all of my calories after 6pm. I still like to keep myself a little surplus of calories for the end of the day, so that I can have supper and then know I have a decent 10pm meal to look forwad to (>= 300 cals).

So I've been between 2700-3000 on lifting days this week, and 2500 on cardio days. I'm a protein-believer, so I've been going for 300g per day. I find that doing that also helps me keep the fats to a minimum, and also since 2-3 of my meals come from MRPs, it just sort of works out that way.

Also yesterday was my first day off Creatine loading, so we'll see if some of the water sheds now that I'm down to 10g of Creatine per day.

re: late night eating -- yeah, dinner last night was 5pm, and that's typical. Most days of the week, I try to taper down the calories towards the end of the day. My last meal is always .5 cup ff cottage cheese, usually with some ff/sf jello and a tablespoon of oil. That's about 225 calories, @ 8pm.

Quite a contrast from when I was fat. On a nightly basis, I would lay on the couch watching late-nite TV and just shovel in tons of candy, ice cream, you name it.

I am experimenting with nonfat milk this time around. It is an easy way to add some extra calories, and it sure makes my whey powder taste a hella lot better. Other than that, I am eating additional carbs in the morning -- post-workout and in my mid-morning meal.

My calories are coming out a little higher than I had initially planned. Friday was about 2750, Saturday was 3100, today is 2400, and tomorrow will be over 2700. The Katch-McArdle formula says my maintenance should be almost 2800. That seems high for me based on my experience, but we will see.

The big variable with those formulas is not the BMR, but selecting the activity level. I'm a computer programmer and sit at a desk all day so I use 1.2 as my multiplier, which brings me to 2423 maintenance cals. During my cut I targeted 1900-2000, and did 30 minutes of cardio every day, and I lost a steady 2 lbs per week. This tells me the numbers were pretty accurate, so I'm sticking to 2400 as my maintenance target and between 2700-3000 as a bulking target.

Are you using a high multiplier? You must be.

Well, I just finished my bowl of Kashi Go Lean cereal, so I'm off to the gym for a balls-to-the-wall chest workout... :db:

Yes, that is what I have found also. Lately I have been using approx 1.55 as my multiplier (I give each day an activity level and average them to get a weekly total). I was just thinking about this on my way to work this morning, maybe I should lower my activity level multiplier. However, the spreadsheet I use said that I my weight should not have changed last week, but I actually lost a little.

Tonight I am going to review my past weeks' BMR records and adjust activity multipliers to actual results, and we'll see what my activity multiplier should be. The only confusing part is what I mentioned above--for the first time in weeks, I have not been in a caloric deficit (assuming a 1.55 activity multiplier); yet, I lost weight. I know that sometimes it just takes a couple weeks (or more) to show trends with changes in diet.

I am still walking funny from Saturday's leg workout, heh. The hardest part is getting in and out of my car...I'm sure it looks pretty funny. Chest/tris for me today, also; it was a good one.

Have a great day.

Still moving along here, Joe. My caloric intake has settled in to 2700-2800 on lifting days, and 2400-2500 on cardio days. The last couple days have actually shown a downward trend in my bodyweight.

I have been working hard in the gym. My weights and reps increased again in my back/bicep workout yesterday. If my arm or thigh have grown any, it's only about 1/16 of an inch. I haven't measured my chest/shoulders. Friday has been my official measuring day, I am switching that to Saturday starting this week.

My waist has held at 30.25. However, I have lost a little more in my waist measurement below my navel (belt line). And I'm looking a little better in the mirror. So that is good.

I took the morning off from cardio today, as planned. I had a late gig last night, and didn't get to bed until midnight. Those late mid-week gigs are very rare, thank goodness. With my weekday schedule starting at 4:30AM, I am usually totally exhausted by 8pm or so.

I am happy to report that I have stayed clean with my eats, despite some serious temptations -- not the least of which was the huge gourmet chicken pizza the guys ordered last night on our break. Man, that looked good. But my better judgement won out. :tucool:

Good man! I too have had some temptations, especially when it's 8pm and I see that I still have 1000 calories to eat, I think "hmm. coupla bowls of ice cream would take care of that right quick!"

Then I remember that my wife is also fitness-obsessed and we no longer even buy ice cream. The kids have their wacky snacks but rainbow colored push pops and fruit-by-the-foot do not interest me. So I end up having another meal replacement shake and a bowl of Kashi GoLean cereal... and I feel good... :cool:

So I've been eating 3000 a day, and so far no apparent fat gain - won't know about strength gains until I settle into my new lifting schedule - by next week I'd say. My weight dropped back a little to 193.5, which is kind of expected since the creatine load phase ended and I probably shed a bit of the water. I'd bet that the other 2-3 lbs I've gained in the last 2 weeks is also water.

The biggest change so far is vascularity. I'm definately the leanest I've ever been in my life, but the vascularity did not come until this week. Creatine maybe, or perhaps just general metabolic increase due to the extra calories? At any rate, I LIKE IT. :D As long as I see those viens I know my bodyfat is within a manageable threshold.

Caliper and tape in 36 hours...

Baseline (March 2)
Weight: 191lbs
bf: 10.1%
waist: 32.25"
chest: 40"
bicep: 14.5"
thigh: 26"
shoulders: 46"

Today, March 12
Weight: 195lbs
bf: 10.2% (caliper)
waist: 32"
chest: 41.5"
bicep: 14.5"
thigh: 25"
shoulders: 47"

Delta
waist: -0.25
chest: +1.5
bicep: +0
thigh: -1.0
shoulders: + 1.0

I don't know what the heck happened to my thighs. I wonder if I wasn't measuring right, or if I finally lost some fat from the back of my thighs (I stored most of my fat on my butt and lower back).

Anyway, I'm pleased overall. I think that the increase in shoulders and chest is largely due to swelling because I have DOMS big time right now. There's also the creatine factor.

The surprise was the waist measurement, and the fact that the bodyfat is relatively steady. I took 5 measurements with the calipers just to rule out inconsistent technique. Every measurement was right on target.

Conclusion: keep eating :eat:

Looking great man!

Here's mine, but I haven't measured chest or shoulders this week. I will probably wait until the end to do that...it's a pain, and I need to have my wife help out.

Start - March 2
Weight: 160.6
BF: the latest measurements average at 8.5%
Waist: 30.5"
Chest: 43"
Bicep: 14 1/8 (14.125)
Thigh: 21.6"
Shoulders: 50"


Current - March 12
Weight: 158.7
BF: caliper and scale average to 8.15%
Waist: 30.25" (I'm being generous here...it's actually a little less now)
Chest: ?
Bicep: 14 1/8 (14.125)
Thigh: 21.6"
Shoulders: ?

My average weight dropped considerably this week. My arm/thigh measurements stayed the same, but my waist decreased. My beltline measurement also decreased by about a quarter inch.

I may increase my calories closer to 3000 on training days. I am pleased with the waist measurements, but I don't want my weight going down right now.

My strength has continued to increase each workout. And, I think i look better; my wife has said so, too. :tu:

So, I guess I could have worse problems. I'll up the calories a bit and we'll see what this week brings.

Awesome man! I guess you and I don't need to worry about getting suddenly fat again - I think I'd have to work hard to get fat now. :)

The funny thing is, even though the tape and calipers are telling me that my bodyfat is the same, and in the mirror I look the same (or maybe a little bit smoother), my stomach "feels" tighter. Maybe it's loose skin tightening up - after all my waist was 36" just 3 months ago. I also feel that my ab program is starting to pay off, because my midsection feels really strong and solid. MAX-OT abs baby! Weighted crunches and leglifts are the way to go!

I can't wait to see how I look at 8%! I figure 2 weeks before cruise time gives me enough time to lose 4 pounds of fat - something I know I can definately do.

Good luck for the coming week - I can't wait to see your chest and shoulders stats. :tu:

Oh by the way check out this MyoTape product for a way to measure your chest and shoulders by yourself
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/acc/myotape.html

Baseline (March 2)
Weight: 191lbs
bf: 10.1%
waist: 32.25"
chest: 40"
bicep: 14.5"
thigh: 26"
shoulders: 46"

Today, March 19
Weight: 197lbs
bf: 9.6% (caliper)
waist: 32.25"
chest: 42"
bicep: 14.5"
thigh: 25"
shoulders: 49"

Delta
waist: 0
chest: +2
bicep: +0
thigh: -1.0
shoulders: + 3.0

First I want to say that I feel a little bit funny reporting this, because it kinda sounds like b.s., but I swear these numbers are accurate and actually the chest and bicep numbers are a little under reported because I always round down to the nearest .25".

I guess my 3000+ cals and daily pushups seem to be paying off. The waist jumped back up to 32.25 - I may have been a little dehydrated when I measured last week. Caliper reading is an average of 5 measurements because I was dubious when the first few were all under 10, but it is what it is. I'm really pleased with the results. I don't think I look all that different, but man I feel strong. A few extra pounds of lean mass really makes a difference in how you feel.

I also started Glutamine last week, and these numbers may be a result of the cell volumizing effects of that plus the Creatine. Oh and I am focusing on overcoming a chest plateau so I started doing 2 sets pf pushups per day, AM and PM. I was humbled to find that I could only crank out 40 strict pushups, when I remember being able to do over 60 when I was in college - yet at the time I could only bench 180. I remember starting a pushup regimen back then that brought my bench from 160 to 180 in just a couple of months, so I'm hoping I can get similar results again. My current 6-rep max is 240 (and I gotta dig real deep to pull that off).

Joe out.

Great job Joe! You're smokin me. I am going to report to the 1/16", because frankly, my gains aren't that impressive so far.

Start - March 2
Weight: 160.6
BF: the latest measurements average at 8.5%
Waist: 30.5"
Chest: 43"
Bicep: 14 1/8 (14.125)
Thigh: 21.6"
Shoulders: 50"


Current - March 19
Weight: 159.5
BF: 8.15%
Waist: 30.25"
Chest: 44.3"
Bicep: 14 3/16 (bleh)
Thigh: 21.6" (grow, dammit!!!)
Shoulders: 50"

So basically, my measurements could be within the margin of error. I don't think my chest has actually been growing, I think my lats have. Caloric intake has been averaging to 2800 per day.

So what's this push-up regimen you are doing? Maybe I should try it, because my benching numbers haven't been increasing enough for the past couple weeks. All my other lifts are going up though.

I can't really see a trend in my bodyweight yet, but one more week should give me a better picture of what's going on.

Again, great job...you are tearing it up! :nod:

LN,

sounds like maybe you need more cals. This week I figured I'd go for it and eat at my bulking target every day, lifting or not, with the rationale that even on days that I'm not lifting, those may very well be the days that my body needs the extra building blocks to do the repair job. I also figured if I got fat this week I'd just cut back next week - how bad can one week get, after all? You did mention that you did a bulk a while back and put on more fat than you would have liked. What mistakes did you make? What were your calories and macro ratios back then.

The pushup thing is simple: in the morning after breakfast, I do as many "good" pushups as I can (no rest at the top and down until the pecs lightly touch the floor). I do it again after supper, roughly 12 hours apart - every single day, whether it's chest day or not. I go until complete muscle failure. Surprisingly, I've gotten no DOMS at all from this, but my pecs are wicked pumped all day long and super solid. Monday is chest day so we'll see how this makes an impact on my bench, but it definately impacted my chest measurement.

This article (http://ironmagazine.com/article115.html) inspired me to try it. The author has another interesting technique (http://ironmagazine.com/article133.html) for biceps.

By Jeeves, I'm going to do it! I have had a mental conflict going on inside my brain for some time....I have always known that push-ups really work my chest well and pump it up like crazy. But I have hesitated to add daily push-ups for fear of getting in the way of recovery from my weekly chest workout. That article explains it very well, and I am sure it will help a lot. Thanks for that. :tucool: I want to do the biceps one too...but in the first article he mentions to focus specialization training on only one body part at a time. But the adventurous side of me wants to just say 'screw it, I'm doing both!' I don't know, I'll think about it.

Re: the calories.....well, I abandoned the zig-zagging about a week ago, and have been eating right around 2700-2800 every day. In the interest of troubleshooting, I may just leave it there for now and try some specialization for my chest (and maybe biceps). But perhaps I will increase it 100 calories per day. We'll see how the next few days go.

Thanks again for the input, I'm psyched about the specialization training because I have long suspected my body would react well to something like that; I just hadn't ever seen it explained that way before.

On my last 2-month bulk phase, I followed Will Brink's Muscle Building Nutrition program....well, mostly. I think the mistakes I made were:

- Having big free days when on a caloric surplus during the rest of the week
- Eating 200-300 too many calories per day
- Allowing more calorie-dense, simple carbs than I should have
- Cutting back too much on the cardio

I need to look it up, but I think I was eating about 3500 calories per day. To get that many calories per day, I ate too much pasta, and I actually allowed myself to eat Taco Bell on a regular basis (the better choices available there, but it's still all crap). I ate about 250 grams of protein per day, 25-30% of my total calories were fat, and the rest was carbs of course. It was a valuable experiment, though, because I was able to deterime some outer limits. That's one of the reasons I am being more careful right now; vacation and summer are coming up, and I don't want to do a full-on bulk until fall. At that point, I will do a more focused bulk, applying what I learned from my last experience.

I think it's wise to focus on just one lagging part in this way. If nothing else, its a shock to the body, and we know that is always a good thing.

Thanks for the insight into your last bulk. So the general mistakes were having a cheat day, eating too many calories, and eating too many simple carbs.

I don't do cheat days, personally - to me its a rationalization to submit to weakness and mediocrity - that mindset is just how I motivate myself, I'm not sugesting that those who have cheat days are weak. I do reward myself with one small treat each day, like one oatmeal cookie or one small peice of chocolate. Actually I don't even do that everyday - sometimes a Detour bar, or a protein shake blended with cocoa or fruit is my treat, but it's always factored into my daily calories, and it always "counts".

I think that some users on this forums would lambast someone for eating at Taco bell (heck, they did so for Subway not long ago), but I agree that there are good choices to be made everywhere. Sometimes I find myself at McD's with the kids. I have their Caesar salaed with lite dressing. When I'm at Subway I get the turkey with extra meat on "wheat". At Taco Bell... well, maybe I wouldnt go there :)

I find that this gets easier and easier the further I get. The challenge is no longer finding the discipline to follow through with the plan; the challenge now is finding the right plan.

I jsut realized that this post is only loosely cohesive. Hope I'm not rambling... ;)

Not rambling at all, makes perfect sense to me. Maybe that means we're both crazy! :spaz:

Yeah, everybody has their opinion on free days. I really enjoy mine when I am having them. They help me out psychologically, more than anything. Funny thing, I never feel sick or down after eating the junk....maybe my many years of practice have paid off ;) . I don't touch fast food anymore, though; it's just not worth it to me. And to be honest, on the odd occasion I am inside one of those places for some reason, I glance around at the people eating there and that puts me right off. That probably sounds really bad of me, but it's true. Kind of like spending 30 minutes in a noisy daycare as a means of birth control. :lol:

So, here's a little mid-week update: I started doing daily push-ups and flexed arm hangs on Sunday. For the past three mornings in a row, my thigh and arm have been growing. The thigh is now 21.75" and my arm is over 14.25". So I am pretty excited about that. My pushups keep going up every set (morning and night), and my bicep workout today was stronger than last week. I don't do much direct bicep work (they get plenty of punishment in my back workout), but I do three sets of barbell curls at the end of my weekly back workout.

My chest and bi's are feeling pretty pumped all the time now. A little DOMS in the biceps, less in the chest. As long as size and strength keep increasing, I will keep doing both. If I start to see decreases in strength or increased fatigue, I will drop one of the exercises.

Having said that, I am starting to get ready to switch gears for a 2-3 week cut. I have been debating about whether to start a little earlier than April 1. Maybe tomorrow, actually. The weeks of increased calories have served me well, I think. I am hoping to lose a couple pounds of fat before my trip. Now that my metabolism is revved up a bit (hopefully), that should be easier.

This challenge has helped me realize that I am really not happy with my fat loss progress yet. I am getting very close, and I don't want to start going the other way right now.

Yeah the pushup thing has some merit. Although I had a DEVASTATING chest workout on Monday (in a good way) and the DOMS has been so bad that pushups just seemed a stupid idea. I think tomorrow I'll be in shape to resume them.

I'm getting mentally prepared for the cut, but since I haven't been gaining any fat I'm sticking with the bulk diet until April 1. I did step up my cardio a bit though - I am doing MAX-OT cardio 4 times/week. I like the endorphin rush I get from it, which I think helps my lifts. I understand the catabolic effect but I feel the Creatine, Glutamine and PWO meal take care of that..

Oh I started tanning this week too. been joking with my wife that I wont need to pack any clothes for the cruise because I plan on not wearing any except for a banana Speedo. :D

hey just kidding man!! :o

:lol:

Yeah, well, on my trip I'm planning on wearing nothing but a tube sock.

:lol:

Baseline (March 2)
Weight: 191lbs
bf: 10.1%
waist: 32.25"
chest: 40"
bicep: 14.5"
thigh: 26"
shoulders: 46"

Today, March 26
Weight: 198.6lbs
bf: 9.1% (caliper)
waist: 32.25"
chest: 42.5"
bicep: 14.5"
thigh: 25"
shoulders: 49"

Delta
weight: +7.6
bf%: -1.0%
waist: 0
chest: +2.5
bicep: +0
thigh: -1.0
shoulders: + 3.0

Well, another week of minor surprises. The biggest one is the bodyfat, although I saw it coming all week. All week I felt as though my midsection was getting really tight and solid. It was. Knocked a mm off the waist caliper measurement. I wonder if it was the MAX-OT cardio... :confused:

Another funny thing, even though the caliper measurements went down, my tape measurement for the waist area stayed the same. And I checked like 10 times to make sure. My hypothesis: internal organ enlargement OR abdominal and oblique swelling due to a killer set of ab workouts this week.

Another modest gain on chest measurement. Biceps stubbornly holding, although I posted a personal best on EZ bar curls this week.

The plan for this week is to taper my calories down to 2700 by Wednesday, April 1. I will hold steady through that weekend, and begin a cut at 2400 calories on Monday April 4. I'll set a BF target of 8%, but if I start to lose weight too quickly I'll up the calories.

Damn dude, this is fun!

:d_eek: Awesome, Joe. That is very impressive progress for a month. Mine isn't nearly as much, but I consider it to be pretty good for only four weeks or so.

Start - March 2
Weight: 160.6
BF: the latest measurements average at 8.5%
Waist: 30.5"
Chest: 43"
Bicep: 14 1/8 (14.125)
Thigh: 21.6"
Shoulders: 50"


Current - March 26
Weight: 160.3
BF: 8.2%
Waist: 30.25"
Chest: 44.5"
Bicep: 14.25
Thigh: 21.75"
Shoulders: 50"


Change
Weight: -0.3
BF: -.03
Waist: -.25
Chest: +1.5
Bicep: +.25
Thigh: +.15
Shoulders: 0

I am going to need to call it quits at this point, and concede defeat. I have already started tapering my calories back. I am going to blast a little fat away before the trip. I will have a 'free day' today, and also take a couple days off of training. I am considering starting some HIT training on Monday for a change of pace.

If you don't mind, I will post my 'punishment pic' sometime before I leave on vacation. :o

Again, fantastic job man. :tu:

Dude you are doing awesome! 1.5" added to an already massive chest! Keep in mind my body was being pretty much starved for about 2 months so it was just itching to explode, but you already had a good build going, so any improvement to that is fantastic progress.

And it aint over till its over man. You could still post gains even though you are cutting, just as I could very well level off. I'm still on target for April 12 - even though I'm sure the entire forum community is looking forward to seeing one of us with toon undies. :o

Truth be told, I dont know if I want to cut. I'm enjoying the intense energy I've had the last several weeks (and my wife has too ;) ) due to the increased nutrition and what I'm assuming is increased testosterone levels.

So you are 8.2% bodyfat - that is damn good man. What level do you think you'll be at in order to look the way you want to? Is the patch of fat at the navel area still a problem? At what point would you consider liposuction?

You go man! It is going so well for you, maybe you shouldn't change a thing. And we sure don't want to disappoint Mrs. JoeBiron! :D

Ok, if you want to go till April 12, that's good with me. I am excited about my new HIT training, and hope the drastic change will shock my bod to grow and maybe lean out a little more. I will probably be less excited about it after the first workout. ;) I got Ell Darden's new HIT book the other day, and I need to give it a shot. I will probably do a post on the forum somewhere about my experience.

Well, 8.2 is what the scale and digital calipers average out to. I doubt I am actually that low. That bit of fat around my navel and lower-back sides is still there, and that is what I want to blast away. I don't see myself ever going with lipo, so I will continue to try a few things to whittle it down. I am pretty sure I can get rid of a lot of it. I know I did a lot of damage when I got fat, though.....I imagine my fat cell count is fairly high in those areas. When all is said and done, I just want to be in as good shape as my genetics will allow. I'm not interested in surgery at this point.

The other thing is, adding some mass will make that bit of fat seem like less. Long-term, if I have the same poundage of fat (or a little less) I have now, but can add 15-20 pounds of lean mass, that will be good. I'm hoping to be there within a few years.

Keep up the great work Joe.

Baseline (March 2)
Weight: 191lbs
bf: 10.1%
waist: 32.25"
chest: 40"
bicep: 14.5"
thigh: 26"
shoulders: 46"

Today, April 2
Weight: 201lbs
bf: 9.6% (caliper)
waist: 32.25"
chest: 43.5"
bicep: 14.5"
thigh: 25"
shoulders: 50.5"

Delta
weight: +10
bf%: -0.5%
waist: 0
chest: +3.5
bicep: +0
thigh: -1.0
shoulders: +4.5

10 pounds. .5% loss in fat. 3.5" on chest. 4.5" on shoulders.

Yeah, I'm pleased. :jumping:

I feel so strong.. so verile. I almost hate to stop this bulk, but I do want to trim down as much as possible for the cruise. So the new focus, starting tomorrow, is fat loss. If I can lose 4 pounds of fat before April 12 without losing muscle, I will be 7.75%.

Compressed schedule today so thats it for this week's update... I'll try to post my regimen for the next 2 weeks sometime this weekend. I might look into your HIT routine LeftNut.

Wow- How in the world did you gain 3.5 on your chest and 4 across your shoulders in 30 days?

And when do you buy a new wardrobe? ;)

Wow- How in the world did you gain 3.5 on your chest and 4 across your shoulders in 30 days?

And when do you buy a new wardrobe? ;)
Well, keep in mind I had just come off a cut, and I did lose a couple of inches during that, so my body was ready to explode. In general, the gains are a result of

- Creatine (intramuscular water)
- Glutamine (10g before, 10g after, 10g before bed)
- eating (clean) like crazy (3000-3500 cals, 300+g protein daily)
- MAX-OT lifting
- minimal cardio (< hour per week)

Also, since I specifically targeted chest and shoulders, I started doing daily pushups to increase my endurance. it worked. This morning I was trying to measure my chest and shoulders myself and was not believing te tape, so I got my wife to make sure the tape was set up correctly. It's official.

After my cut finished (lost 15 pounds of fat) I had to go out and buy new jeans and khakis. Thankfully none of the fat came back, so my new jeans still fit nicely. T shirts are a little snugger at the chest and shoulders, but thats exactly what I was after. ;) I'm 6'3", so a few inches here and there arent a huge shift in proportions.

Damn my arms though! They dont grow!!! Got stronger and gained endurance, but no growth! Damn long arms! :mad:

Congrats on a great month of bulking. :tu: I looked thru the thread for specifics on your diet and was wondering if you could just give a sample of what you ate in a day to get up to the 3000-3500 calorie level and 300+ protein intake.

I'm too damn lazy to count calories and figure I might need to boost mine as my gains have sort of stalled. It would be nice to see what kind of diet you have in a day to help me get to those totals. Thanks.

Yeah--awesome job man! This week, my arm is up to 14 3/8, and my thigh is a little over 21.75. I haven't measured my chest and shoulders yet. My waist is just under 30.25 now, with my belt line under 30.75. My weight is down about half a pound from last week, which is as fast as I want to go right now. I don't see a huge change in the appearance of my midsection, but the muscle development in my upper body is looking fuller. I'm not sure how this will translate to chest/shoulder measurements, but the HIT routine is definitely doing something good for me. It's like I can feel every muscle in my body growing as I recover from each workout. My wife has noticed a change, too.

I have seen decent results, considering how careful I have been with my caloric intake.

Congrats on a great month of bulking. :tu: I looked thru the thread for specifics on your diet and was wondering if you could just give a sample of what you ate in a day to get up to the 3000-3500 calorie level and 300+ protein intake.

I'm too damn lazy to count calories and figure I might need to boost mine as my gains have sort of stalled. It would be nice to see what kind of diet you have in a day to help me get to those totals. Thanks.
Thanks smalltex -

Here's a typical day - I have the macro breakdown for each item but its too much work to format it all from Excel. If you want more detail I can email you my Excel workbook -


7:30 AM
-------
Home Brewed Coffee w/ Non-dairy creamer
1 Cup Kashi Go Lean Original
4 oz 1% Lactaid Milk
1 Scoop All The Whey Protein Blend w/ 4 Oz (Soy|Cow) Milk

10:00 AM
---------
Turkey Sandwich on Whole Grain with Honey Mustard Sauce

10:30 AM
----------
10g Micronized L-Glutamine Powder
5g ATW Micronized Creatine Monohydrate

11:00 AM
--------
workout

12:30 PM
---------
10g Micronized L-Glutamine Powder
5g ATW Micronized Creatine Monohydrate

EAS Myoplex Original Nutrition Shake

2:30 PM
--------
Small Salad (Greens, Spinach, etc)
5 Oz Starkist Tuna Packet
Snyders Pumpernickel and Onion Pretzels (14 sticks)

4:30 PM
--------
EAS Myoplex Lite Nutrition Bar
1 Medium Apple

6:00 PM
--------
1 3oz Broiled Hamburger Patty
1 3oz Broiled Hamburger Patty
1 Whole Wheat Roll

9:00 PM
--------
4 oz 1% Lactaid Milk 4
1 Scoop All The Whey Protein Blend w/ 4 Oz (Soy|Cow) Milk
1/2 Cup (Dry) Quaker Oatmeal

10:00 PM
---------
1 Cup nf yogurt, 1 scoop ATW Blend, 1/4c grape nuts
1 ZonePerfect Bar
10g Micronized L-Glutamine Powder
5g ATW Micronized Creatine Monohydrate

Totals
-------
Calories: 3316
Fat: 82g (22%)
Carbs: 334g (40%)
Protein: 320g (39%)

As you can see, supplements are a big part of my plan. Finding high quality, economical whey protein was the key. I'm also not shy to use bars either. They are a small part of my total nutrition plan. Many days I try to hit this calorie target, but I get to 9pm and find I've only eaten 2500 cals or so - its tough some days to find the time to cram all this food down. Hope this helps you plan your days.

Wow LN - It sure sounds like you are pumped with this new program. I'll have to read up on this - what is a good online resource? Is this book you are reading a worthy addition to my library?

Check out this thread (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=11048) for some good links. Darden's site is ok, and www.highintensity.net has some ok info.

I definitely recommend Darden's book The New High Intensity Training....if you think you might be interested in HIT, it would be a great book to buy. I'm not sure about his approach to nutrition yet, though.

You know, I did that pushup routine for a week...I felt like it was good for my chest, but not so good for my joints.

Wow LN - It sure sounds like you are pumped with this new program. I'll have to read up on this - what is a good online resource? Is this book you are reading a worthy addition to my library?

Thanks, just what I was wanting in regards to your diet plan.

You do get a lot of your protein from protein shakes--that's where I probably could make a change. I just can't seem to get enough "clean" real food into the diet with my work schedule and poor planning habits and the drinks may be the way to go for me also. I am just getting a protein shake in the am when I wake up and once in pm after workout. I'm going to start with a pre workout shake and see if that helps.

I'm watching this battle with great interest- both of you guys are pretty intense about your workouts so it'll take a lot to win. I'd have to give Joe the edge on inch improvement capabilities since he's coming off a cut. Joe-are you considering abandoning MaxOT in favor of HIT? I know you are accustomed to lifting pretty heavy (I consider 75 pound dumbell military presses and 450 pound smith machine squats to be quite heavy for your size).

I'm watching this battle with great interest- both of you guys are pretty intense about your workouts so it'll take a lot to win. I'd have to give Joe the edge on inch improvement capabilities since he's coming off a cut. Joe-are you considering abandoning MaxOT in favor of HIT? I know you are accustomed to lifting pretty heavy (I consider 75 pound dumbell military presses and 450 pound smith machine squats to be quite heavy for your size).
Nico-

I would not consider abadoning MAX-OT as I think it is very effective. "MAX-OT has been good to me". :) I would consider HIT in order to mix things up a bit though. Maybe I'll try it for a few weeks after my next rest week.

I have been going 6-8 reps instead of 4-6 lately, with greater emphasis on form and range of motion. As such, my 450-lb Smith squats are now a more modest 300lb free squat with a box. (box on the floor right behind you so you can use as a guide for your squat depth). They are kicking my ass. My last workout I was feeling so pumped from 3 sets of squats that I thought to myself "Why the hell should I do anything OTHER than squats? I'm not doing girlie leg curls and calf raises after this!". So I ended up doing 9 sets of squats for my workout. That was 4 days ago and I still feel like I need a forklift to get out of bed. :)

9 sets of squats? Joe you're an animal. That's a manly workout, particularly since you're now doing free weight squats which are more vomit-inducing for sure.

That makes my workout sound about as painful as a full body massage from a swedish bikini team model.

Hi

I've been reading through the forums over the last few days, doing research for putting on some bulk. And then I came across this thread and it prompted me to join the forums. Why? Because the support in this place is unbelievable; I've had such a good time just reading, but I needed to tell you that you've given me the last bit of inspiration I needed to really get moving with this at last.

Apart from enjoying the rhetoric between you two guys - which has been hilarious in places, I was getting really excited on every gain you made.

I don't know why I particularly connected - possibly because of Joe's long arms (man I know what you mean!) - but I did.

Thanks guys

Hi

I've been reading through the forums over the last few days, doing research for putting on some bulk. And then I came across this thread and it prompted me to join the forums. Why? Because the support in this place is unbelievable; I've had such a good time just reading, but I needed to tell you that you've given me the last bit of inspiration I needed to really get moving with this at last.

Apart from enjoying the rhetoric between you two guys - which has been hilarious in places, I was getting really excited on every gain you made.

I don't know why I particularly connected - possibly because of Joe's long arms (man I know what you mean!) - but I did.

Thanks guys
Haha! That's great Reeze. The incredible good vibe on these forums is the reason I joined as well - despite my being a computer/internet geek, this is the first and only online forums community I've really participated in. There is no flaming, no bad language... it just rocks! Kudos to John for keeping this place a positive outlet.

And yeah, these long arms are bugging me more and more. After my cruise I'm starting an arm blasting program. Maybe I'll start a challenge thread just for arm growth. Stay tuned.


Welcome aboard. :tu:

Baseline (March 2)
Weight: 191lbs
bf: 10.1%
waist: 32.25"
chest: 40"
bicep: 14.5"
thigh: 26"
shoulders: 46"

Today, April 9
Weight: 198lbs
bf: 9.6% (caliper)
waist: 32.25"
chest: 43.0"
bicep: 14.5"
thigh: 25"
shoulders: 50.0"

Delta
weight: +7
bf%: -0.5%
waist: 0
chest: +3.0
bicep: +0
thigh: -1.0
shoulders: +4.0

Well I ran out of creatine on Wednesday, after placing an order for more on Monday - darn UPS doesnt deliver on Saturday so I'm still waiting until next Monday. I have to plan my usage earlier. The local suppl shop is too expensive though to go out and grab some. I think that the water loss from the creatine cessation accounts for the 3 pound loss this week, as well as the .5" loss on chest and shoulder measurement. Also, I've been between 2600-3000 calories, which is essentially maintenance for me at this point.

The challenge this week is to maintain muscle mass while trimming off just one pound of fat - thats all I'm looking for, and I think that is a reasonable goal for one week. Since I've been really hungry all day, I think I'll try to do the fat loss by way of cardio rather than caloric deficit - I'm going for 1 hour of 70% MHR cardio every day.

Then, next Saturday, its bon voyage baby! Sipping tropical drinks, watching half-naked women prance around the beach, opulent dinners at night, soaking in Carribean UVs... ah.... :D

Joe-3 inches added to your chest in one month? damn-I have a hard time believing it had really gotten down to 40" though-are you measuring exactly the same way as you had before?

I may take you up on the arms-only challenge-I'm tired of having these long skinny arms too. The question is-will more attention on arms during a given period (let's say 60 days) actually benefit them or just result in overtraining. If it helps, it indicates that you can bring up your weaker bodyparts with more attention provided you overdo the rest of your training.

Lately I've been mixing in some bicep curls on the side at home with light dumbells-like 15's and 20's. It's so light that you can really experiment with the reps, pace, etc. I like to do a set of 50 curls fast with the 15's without swinging the body-really explosive movements generating momentum only from the biceps. By the end of the set it feels much more intense than a set of 6 with 40 lb dumbells.

Having short biceps sucks-trying to make the best of it.

Ok, here's my report for this week. I am thrilled with the progress over the month.

I'm not sure why, but I feel a little 'fatter' lately. Maybe the stuff around my abdomen and lower back is just bugging me more, I don't know. It doesn't make much sense, because my waist measurements are holding. It could just all be in my head, because I have cut out the cardio while doing the HIT. I haven't taken pictures lately, I suspect they would look about the same as my starting pics. Maybe a little fuller in the upper body musclulature. It does seem that way lately.

Anyhow, it's looking like I'll be forced to take a pic within the next couple days anyway. ;) Great job, Joe.

Start - March 2
Weight: 160.6
BF: the latest measurements average at 8.5%
Waist: 30.5"
Chest: 43"
Bicep: 14 1/8 (14.125)
Thigh: 21.6"
Shoulders: 50"

Current - April 9
Weight: 158.8
BF: caliper and scale average to 8%
Waist: 30.25"
Chest: 44.75"
Bicep: 14.375"
Thigh: 21.75"
Shoulders: 50.125"

Change
Weight: -1.8
BF: -0.5%
Waist: -.25"
Chest: +1.75"
Bicep: +.25"
Thigh: +.15"
Shoulders: +.125"

I don't put much stock in the body fat percentage, although the change would seem to reflect what it seems like I am seeing with my upper body. As far as I am concerned, the weight and body fat percentage differences are well within normal fluctuations and margins of error.

For the chest measurement, I think most of the increase is from my lats which have been increasing in strength much more than my chest.

I was hoping to be able to cut down a little more before my vacation, but that's ok. I got pretty excited about HIT, and that's been worth it so far. Besides, all of my new 31" (true 31's) board-shorts still fit with just the right amount of room, and I don't feel nearly as self-conscious about being shirtless as I used to.

When I get back, I will be able to focus on blasting away the last bit of fat before summer. I'll have something to work for, and that's always good.

Ok, well I am going to assume I lost this challenge--here's my penance:

Ok, well I am going to assume I lost this challenge--here's my penance:
:eek:

Hey man, you're a good sport. That was a classic JohnStoneFitness moment right there.

Thanks for helping me stay motivated with thie challenge. I looked forward to my Saturday check-ins every week. What are you goals now? I'm shooting for <7% for June. These last few pounds of blubber are really stubborn though, and I'm not making much progress yet.

Anyway, thanks for being a great challenge partner man! :tucool:

:lol:

Right back at you, Joe. It's always good to have something to keep you into the game.

The pic is a bit blurry and dark, but it's just as well...I took it when I was in Mexico amidst the constant onslaught of gluttony. :eat: :eat: :eat: :eat: :eat: I swear, I don't know how I got out of that vacation without gaining 10 pounds. I have never eaten so much crap in my life, even when I was fat. Apparently, I gained no more than 1 pound of fat. I've been back for 4 days, and my weight is very close to where it was before I left. Waist measurements are up about .25". Some of that may still be a little bloating, we'll see within a week or so.

How was your trip? It was a cruise, right? Hope you had a good time.

Next for me is a hardcore attempt to blast away the last bit of fat. I am planning on going very strict for 2 months; hopefully the fat will go and the lean will stay. Sounds like our goals are similar again. Good luck with your program--I'll be keeping an eye to see what's working for you.

Did you say somewhere you were trying out HIT? How's that going?


:eek:

Hey man, you're a good sport. That was a classic JohnStoneFitness moment right there.

Thanks for helping me stay motivated with thie challenge. I looked forward to my Saturday check-ins every week. What are you goals now? I'm shooting for <7% for June. These last few pounds of blubber are really stubborn though, and I'm not making much progress yet.

Anyway, thanks for being a great challenge partner man! :tucool: