Hello everyone,

It has been one month now since I started going to the gym again, and for the first time, with a focus on cutting.

Although alot of people seem to not like long sessions and have to be disciplined to do them, I am finding I am the exact opposite. I literally have to make myself stop after 45-50 minutes. I get into the music, and have to keep up with the beat.

So, 2 reasons why I am wondering if the way I am doing this is dangerous.

1. The music

Excluding the first week as I was just getting used to it, I spent most of the time listening to trance like DJ Tiesto (maybe 120 BPM). I only do stair machine and the machine has 15 levels. Now, I go at a pace so that I step with the bass drum. Once I get into it, even when I am tired, I can't slow down and lose the beat. I would do level 8 for the intense sections and 4 for the rest sections. Anyway, now I am listening to old school jungle/drumnbass (much faster, 160 BPM or so) But I still have to keep up with the beat, and I am doing level 10-12 for the intense sections, and level 4-6 for the rest sections. Needless to say intense sections at level 12 with this faster music means max heart rate. Which leads to reason 2.

2. Length of time

When I first start, after warming up for a few minutes, I go for like 20 minutes at level 9 or 10. It takes awhile for my heart rate to get up, but after about 10 minutes (including the 3 minutes of warm up), I am finally over 80%. I keep going at this pace and after I get over 80%, it fairly quickly gets to 90%. I am just using the standard 220-age method, but anything less than 85% does not feel any different than walking to me, and I can pass that "if you can converse, then you are OK" test up to 92%. Anyway, to continue, after about 20 minutes into this, where over 10 minutes of it is over 85% heart rate, THEN I start doing the HIIT part of my session. And how I am doing it might not technically be under the HIIT definition because the intense sections are long, as long as I can go to the beat at levels 11 or 12. Depending on how into the particular song at the time, they last anywhere from 3-10 minutes. Rest sections are 1-2 minutes only, then right back into it. I usually take the rest sections after a song has ended and the next one is just starting, or until I cant go anymore. I can comfortably breath through my nose with no shortness of breath until 95%, then I start doing controlled breating in through the nose, out through the mouth (also to the beat, inhale/exhale 2 beats each). If I stay focused, concentrate, keep in breathing and my form/pace in control, I can go to my max and can easily stay there for a minimum of 3 minutes. So, I finish and do cool-down between 45-50 minutes total. Number of intense sections varies obviously, but probably average at 4.

Sorry this post is so long, but I wanted to really explain what I am doing and hope to get some good feedback. I tried doing just 23 minutes of HIIT, but I just feel like I have not done a thing afterwards (not an intensity problem, believe me). And as I said before, even after this session, I don't want to stop, I want to keep going, but I stop to be safe. I swear it feels like a rave, where you just HAVE to dance all night.

Thanks for reading this post!
Thanks in advance for any feedback.

It's ok to do long interval sessions, but you need to make sure you are doing them correctly. You also need to make sure you are drinking water and fueling them appropriately. Fasted state - for that long, I'm generally against.

I like the heart rate monitors and guidelines, but I also believe in the Percieved Level of Exertion. You need to be totally honest about how you feel during each session and how fast, etc. If you are spending more time gasping for breath than not, then you are definetly pushing it too hard. If you can sing your way through without gasping - you aren't pushing hard enough - you see?

If you spend all/most of your interval time gasping for breath you have pushed your body beyond the training zone and you are basically just frying yourself. There are a lot of people and studies who reccomend the lower zones with "fat burning" benefits and such. It depends on which school of thought you follow.

below is a VERY rough, and unscientific guideline for LPE, but you'll get the idea.

PLE 1-2 - You should be able to sing with gusto.

PLE 3-4 - You should be able to sing reasonably well and ALL the words. Obviously, comming off of an interval, you would be out of breath for a bit, but in general this is the exertion level.

PLE 4-5 - You should be able to say all the words, just not with total gusto (or perhaps on key)

PLE 6-7 - You should only be able to sing or say about 1/2 the words

PLE 8-9 - You can't sing any of the words, but might be able to shout out one or two for every 10 the singer does.

PLE 10 - You should be thinking about how you want to throttle the singer, how dare they sound like THEY are able to breath. Where do I throw up in this Gym again?


of course, just like people - there are a milion opinions on this. Just my quick 2 cents. :)

Great post Savyart! The 220-age formula is not a very good formula for determining maximum heart rate. And for whatever reason, many people on this site seem to be having significant trouble measuring their heart rate during exercise. There perceived level of exertion is not matching at all what their tested heart rate says. In this circumstance, it is always better to go by Perceived Level of Exertion. Even when I ran track and cross country competitively, we rarely did heart rate training. Most of our workouts, long runs, and recovery days/junk mileage were done by judging Perceived Level of exertion, using a similar scale to this one. I think Perceived Level of Exertion would be much better than the heart rate method for many of the people here.

QUOTE=Savyart]It's ok to do long interval sessions, but you need to make sure you are doing them correctly. You also need to make sure you are drinking water and fueling them appropriately. Fasted state - for that long, I'm generally against.

I like the heart rate monitors and guidelines, but I also believe in the Percieved Level of Exertion. You need to be totally honest about how you feel during each session and how fast, etc. If you are spending more time gasping for breath than not, then you are definetly pushing it too hard. If you can sing your way through without gasping - you aren't pushing hard enough - you see?

If you spend all/most of your interval time gasping for breath you have pushed your body beyond the training zone and you are basically just frying yourself. There are a lot of people and studies who reccomend the lower zones with "fat burning" benefits and such. It depends on which school of thought you follow.

below is a VERY rough, and unscientific guideline for LPE, but you'll get the idea.

PLE 1-2 - You should be able to sing with gusto.

PLE 3-4 - You should be able to sing reasonably well and ALL the words. Obviously, comming off of an interval, you would be out of breath for a bit, but in general this is the exertion level.

PLE 4-5 - You should be able to say all the words, just not with total gusto (or perhaps on key)

PLE 6-7 - You should only be able to sing or say about 1/2 the words

PLE 8-9 - You can't sing any of the words, but might be able to shout out one or two for every 10 the singer does.

PLE 10 - You should be thinking about how you want to throttle the singer, how dare they sound like THEY are able to breath. Where do I throw up in this Gym again?


of course, just like people - there are a milion opinions on this. Just my quick 2 cents. :)[/QUOTE]

OK. Thanks for this advice. It is kinda tricky but I will try to explain where I fit on this.

I feel I would be in PLE 1-2 until 85%.

From 85-91% or so, PLE 4-5.

After 92% its a little more complicated. I have to really focus and get into the groove of the rhthym of the movement, and really concentrate on keeping my breathing controlled, but as long as I am in that state, I would be at between PLE 5-6 depending on exactly which level of the machine and the exact BPM of the song I am listening to at the time.

However, if I DID actually speak, that would break my concentration and my rhthym, and at THAT point, I would quickly jump to 8-9. If I stopped speaking, and refocused, I could regain control and go back to 6, unless its already been like 7 or more minutes.

I never ever feel like 10.

But keep in mind, I conciously focus on my breathing. If i didnt do that, this would a totally different story. Even at the lower levels of exertion, my PLEs would be higher than they are.

I work out after work in the evening, so I eat 1 salmon onigiri (185calories, 37 carb, 8 protein) 300 ml of low fat (not fat free) milk with extra calcium one hour before I am in the gym.

However, if I DID actually speak, that would break my concentration and my rhthym, and at THAT point, I would quickly jump to 8-9. If I stopped speaking, and refocused, I could regain control and go back to 6, unless its already been like 7 or more minutes.

I never ever feel like 10.

But keep in mind, I conciously focus on my breathing. If i didnt do that, this would a totally different story. Even at the lower levels of exertion, my PLEs would be higher than they are.
.

Ok the thing is - YOU DO NEED TO SPEAK. If you speak and it causes your percieved exertion to seem higher, then IT IS higher. Period. It's not just a supposition - you should literally be able to do it.

I understand the mind over matter with the breathing, it's something I work with during my running all the time. But just because you focus control on breathing doesn't negate the level of exertion you are working at. So, if you speak and you are suddenly at 8-9, then that is where you are at.

What Savyart says is absolutely true. also 85%-91% really should not be a 4-5. The perceived level of exertion that correctly corresponds with this heart rate should at least be a 6-7. It's not an easy pace. Aim for a 6-7 level of perceived exertion regardless of what the monitor says. Exercising at this level of exertion will not be too intense.

Ok the thing is - YOU DO NEED TO SPEAK. If you speak and it causes your percieved exertion to seem higher, then IT IS higher. Period. It's not just a supposition - you should literally be able to do it.

I understand the mind over matter with the breathing, it's something I work with during my running all the time. But just because you focus control on breathing doesn't negate the level of exertion you are working at. So, if you speak and you are suddenly at 8-9, then that is where you are at.

Whatever. Exactly what PLE I am at isn't what I am worried about.

Whatever PLE I am physically at, bottom line is, is the way/length I am doing cardio dangerous or setting me up for overtraining?

What I mean is that you may not be working as intensely as you think if you are really at those Levels of Perceived Exertion. But this is not necessarily a bad thing given the duration of your cardio. As for that, I would say 45-50 minutes is fine. I wouldn't go too much beyond that though as too much cardio can be muscle wasting. That said, it all depends on your progress. If your weight workouts are going and you're not feeling fatigued, you're probably ok.

Whatever. Exactly what PLE I am at isn't what I am worried about.

Whatever PLE I am physically at, bottom line is, is the way/length I am doing cardio dangerous or setting me up for overtraining?