Alright, I haven't heard this discussed on here yet so I'll throw it out there and see what people think. I didn't read this somewhere, though I am sure it has been written somewhere. I was thinking last night about muscle growth and whatever else and it hit me...If you have more muscle on your body, you have the same amount of muscle cells but you will have more actin/myosin fibers which can undergo microtears when you lift. Does this then mean that the more muscle you HAVE, the more "damage" you can cause yourself and the more rapidly you can grow muscle?

I hope I phrased this so it makes sense. If this is true then that would mean that extremely skinny people just starting out will have extremely slow results in the beginning due to having less muscle (newbie gains ignored of course). Once they put on a bit of muscle though, can the growth accelerate due to greater ability to inflict damage??

Maybe this is why the big guys that compete can diet and lose 20 pounds, much of it muscle, and then in a couple months of training gain 10 pounds of muscle back. Maybe it's because they have a solid "base" of muscle that they can work from?

I really hope I made sense...at least it makes sense in my brain. Looking forward to see what people have to say.

Sounds interesting, but not the case. All of the natural bodybuilders I've known, interviewed, worked with or read about agree that as they train more and gain more mass, it becomes more difficult to gain more mass and their gains come more slowly. For example,

Dave Goodin:
http://www.dolfzine.com/page58.htm

"In 19 years of bodybuilding training I've put on about 30 lbs. of muscle. That's less than 2 lbs per year on the average. I compared notes with another friend, Kirby Sams, who is a WNBF Pro. He's put on about the same amount of muscle in about the same amount of time. Certainly, you have good years where you put on more, and bad years where (because of injuries) you fight to stay even; but the process is slow. People get false expectations from reading magazine articles that say "put an inch on your arms in 6 weeks" or " gain 10 lbs of muscle in a month". Those things just don't happen (we're talking about solid muscle not fat)."

Jeremy

Alright, I haven't heard this discussed on here yet so I'll throw it out there and see what people think. I didn't read this somewhere, though I am sure it has been written somewhere. I was thinking last night about muscle growth and whatever else and it hit me...If you have more muscle on your body, you have the same amount of muscle cells but you will have more actin/myosin fibers which can undergo microtears when you lift. Does this then mean that the more muscle you HAVE, the more "damage" you can cause yourself and the more rapidly you can grow muscle?

I hope I phrased this so it makes sense. If this is true then that would mean that extremely skinny people just starting out will have extremely slow results in the beginning due to having less muscle (newbie gains ignored of course). Once they put on a bit of muscle though, can the growth accelerate due to greater ability to inflict damage??

Maybe this is why the big guys that compete can diet and lose 20 pounds, much of it muscle, and then in a couple months of training gain 10 pounds of muscle back. Maybe it's because they have a solid "base" of muscle that they can work from?

I really hope I made sense...at least it makes sense in my brain. Looking forward to see what people have to say.

PS - another caveat. Muscle growth is not determined by the amount of damage. It is often oversimplified like this, but it's not the case. In fact, too much damage can actually result in a net muscle loss. There are several factors that contribute to muscle gains, but overload is one, CNS confusion is another, etc and so on.

Jeremy

Sounds interesting, but not the case. All of the natural bodybuilders I've known, interviewed, worked with or read about agree that as they train more and gain more mass, it becomes more difficult to gain more mass and their gains come more slowly. For example,

Dave Goodin:
http://www.dolfzine.com/page58.htm

"In 19 years of bodybuilding training I've put on about 30 lbs. of muscle. That's less than 2 lbs per year on the average. I compared notes with another friend, Kirby Sams, who is a WNBF Pro. He's put on about the same amount of muscle in about the same amount of time. Certainly, you have good years where you put on more, and bad years where (because of injuries) you fight to stay even; but the process is slow. People get false expectations from reading magazine articles that say "put an inch on your arms in 6 weeks" or " gain 10 lbs of muscle in a month". Those things just don't happen (we're talking about solid muscle not fat)."

Jeremy

Alright, If you have more muscle on your body, you have the same amount of muscle cells but you will have more actin/myosin fibers which can undergo microtears when you lift. Does this then mean that the more muscle you HAVE, the more "damage" you can cause yourself and the more rapidly you can grow muscle?

extremely skinny people just starting out will have extremely slow results in the beginning due to having less muscle (newbie gains ignored of course). Once they put on a bit of muscle though, can the growth accelerate due to greater ability to inflict damage??

Maybe this is why the big guys that compete can diet and lose 20 pounds, much of it muscle, and then in a couple months of training gain 10 pounds of muscle back. Maybe it's because they have a solid "base" of muscle that they can work from?


It is sort of like that. My mind and body doesn't want to spend time getting it together to explain. It works on recovery abilities build into the big guys bodies. Look at John, he built a foundation from that first year's efforts and he burst forth for around 24 lbs of muscle in about 12 weeks.

I think the 15-24 are the magic years where skinny guys can break out, fast. After those years it is harder. But don't bypass those "newbie" gains, they are real and a big part of that foundaton we build. At 62, I am still working with the foundation build in my teens. My muscles still respond well to exercise. If only diet was the same. I never established that foundation.

But we need to not worry about the why and focus on the actions required. I see Jeremy gave us the answer.

But we need to not worry about the why and focus on the actions required. I see Jeremy gave us the answer.

I completely agree...I just think physiology is the most interesting thing ever.