listing working sets only

day 1: chest/tri/ab

bb flat bench x 3
db flat bench x 3
closegrip bb bench x 3
cable crunch x 3
hanging leg raise x 3

day 2: shoulder/trap

arnold press x 4
upright row x 4
medial delt raise x 4
rear seated delt raise x 3

day 3: back/bi

deadlift x 3
front pulldown x 4
cable row x 4
bb straight curl x 4

day 4: legs

squat x 3
leg press x 3
ham curl x 3
seated calf x 4

cycle back to day 1 next day (so no resting days)... might be worried about possible overtraining, but so far so good as a) i'm not doing too much each day and b) still consistently seeing gains each cycle

any suggestions/improvements? thanks in advance.

Even if you are seeing gains they might not be as optimal since you aren't resting your muscles enough. If you truly dont want a day off at all I'd recommend a 5 or 6 day split into legs, back, chest, shoulders, arms, abs. You could do a 7 day split too by splitting the arms into bi's and tri's. However I wouldnt recommend it. A 5-day split with 2 days rest works much better. And in any case I'm sure you have other things to do

Even if you are seeing gains they might not be as optimal since you aren't resting your muscles enough. If you truly dont want a day off at all I'd recommend a 5 or 6 day split into legs, back, chest, shoulders, arms, abs. You could do a 7 day split too by splitting the arms into bi's and tri's. However I wouldnt recommend it. A 5-day split with 2 days rest works much better. And in any case I'm sure you have other things to do

cool, thanks for your advice! um... maybe i should have mentioned that i'm pretty new at lifting (4 or 5 months), so that's kinda why i haven't been worrying about overtraining too much at this point. i guess i was under the impression that beginners don't need as much rest and only when your intensity picks up do you need to start giving more rest? like maybe a week would be more than enough when you start, but you might need a lot more than that after training for a long time...

anyway, do you think 1 week might be more beneficial? i might experiment with a longer resting period if so. right now i'm probably spending 30 - 45 minutes each day which makes it pretty manageable, but would you suggest i split further? thanks again.

well you can keep ur 4-day routine if you repeat it every 6-7 days, meaning you need to add 2-3 days of rest. I have a 5-day split with 2 days of rest meaning ill hit the same muscle 1 week after i hit it before. Anything around there will work, it all depends on how much your body needs the extra rest.

Notes in bold below, comments to follow ...

listing working sets only

day 1: chest/tri/ab

bb flat bench x 3 horizontal push - 3 total
db flat bench x 3 horizontal push - 6 total
closegrip bb bench x 3 horizontal push - 9 total, this is also a triceps movement so we can say triceps, 3 total
cable crunch x 3
hanging leg raise x 3

day 2: shoulder/trap

arnold press x 4 vertical push - 4 total
upright row x 4 misc
medial delt raise x 4 vertical push - 8 total
rear seated delt raise x 3 vertical push - 11 total

day 3: back/bi

deadlift x 3 hip-centric - 3 total
front pulldown x 4 vertical pull - 4 total
cable row x 4 horizontal pull - 4 total
bb straight curl x 4 biceps - 4 total

day 4: legs

squat x 3 quad-centric - 3 total
leg press x 3 quad-centric - 6 total
ham curl x 3 hip-centric - 6 total
seated calf x 4 misc

cycle back to day 1 next day (so no resting days)... might be worried about possible overtraining, but so far so good as a) i'm not doing too much each day and b) still consistently seeing gains each cycle

any suggestions/improvements? thanks in advance.

Okay, here's the scoop. I've posted this dozens of times and I'll keep posting it. Everyone, all the time, does push before pull. Chest before back. Quads before hamstrings, etc. This should be balanced, you should do push some of the time first, then pull, etc. So to bring this into balance, a few things ...

First, you are over-emphasizing the biceps. Balance with your triceps, i.e. drop a set of curls or add a set of triceps.

Next, this is very common - you push 9 sets but row only 4. Result? Weak rowing muscles compared to overcompensated chest muscles. This means weak scapular retraction, tight chest pulls shoulders forward, upper back is probably visible from the side when it shouldn't be, poor posture, etc. Lighten the load on chest pushes or bring in some more rowing movements.

Same thing with your vertical. You are going crazy with the shoulders - 11 sets I counted - but only 4 sets of pull-downs. Again, imbalances around the shoulder joint, with the lats, etc. Many people wonder why they don't get good lat development, this is one reason - the shoulders overcompensate and keep the lats from fully developing due to a severe over-balance of excessive pushing. Again, lighten some of the shoulder load or add some pulling to compensate. You might split back into two days, functionally two different groups - rowing and pulling (i.e. pull-ups, pull-downs).

Your quads and hips are balanced but I believe this is by mistake. While dead-lifts most certainly work the back, they are more of a hip-dominant exercise that balance out squats (which also involve the back and upper body to an extent). So when you take into account the dead-lifts and hamstring curls, you are getting somewhere. Although you are doing two compound movements for quads (squat/leg press) but a compound movement (Dead-lift) and an isolation movement (hamstring curls) for the hamstrings, so you might want to switch to leg extensions on the quads or go from hamstring curls to stiff-legged deads on the hamstrings to balance things out there.

I also see another major mistake many people make, which is no wonder why there are so many issues with lower back pain these days ... you are doing direct abdominal work but not balancing this with any direct back work. You should consider adding hypertextensions and/or good mornings to strengthen the lower back directly if you're going to take the time to do that with your abdominals, or you'll have a core imbalance that creates issues around the hip joint, lower back, glutes, and so forth.

Jeremy

whoa... thanks for the great replies! ethan, i think i'll take your advice and move to a six-day split (seems to work best w/jeremy's suggestions).

jeremy, your push/pull balancing really makes a lot of sense, i can definitely see how my current split might be off-balance. could you guys take a look at this to see if it looks better?


Day 1 (chest/triceps)
Barbell bench x 3
Dumbbell bench x 3
Close-grip bench x 2
Cable push-down x 2

Day 2 (delts/traps)
Arnold press x 3
Upright barbell row x 4
Medial deltoid lateral raise x 2
Posterior deltoid lateral raise x 2

Day 3 (quads/calves)
Squats x 3
Leg press x 3
Sitting calf raise x 4

Day 4 (lat row/biceps)
Sitting cable row x 3
Bent-over barbell row x 3
Straight barbell curl x 2
EZ barbell curl x 2

Day 5 (lat vertical/abs)
Front pull-down x 3
V-bar pull-down x 3
Cable crunch x 3
Hanging leg raise x 2

Day 6 (hams/lower back/forearms)
Deadlifts x 3
Straight-leg deadlifts x 3
Hyper-extensions x 2
Barbell wrist curls x 3

jeremy, i get what you're saying about closegrip bench being a push, but i do it with a really close grip (like less than 6 inches) and am not really feeling anything in my chest... would you still consider it a pushing action? also, i know i got a lot of shoulder stuff in there, i'd like to take out medial raises since i have upright rows and presses already, do you think that's a better idea?