Just curious are you sticking with MAX-OT through your new cutting phase

Absolutely.

how many other workout methods have u tried? and this i presume has the best results then?

john, dont you think lifting that heavy, for that long, without break could lead to injury?
the max-OT handbook suggests a 1 week break every 10-12weeks, are you worried an injury could kind of "sneak up" on you?

Hey john i noticed on your workout spread sheet you have enough space for 5 exercises for each muscle group. just wondering if you are doing 5 differnt exercises for each group on the Max-OT. And if you are i thought yu were only suppose to do 3 exercises that are 3x6 a peice

john, dont you think lifting that heavy, for that long, without break could lead to injury?
the max-OT handbook suggests a 1 week break every 10-12weeks, are you worried an injury could kind of "sneak up" on you?
I'm not really sure I understand how lifting heavy could cause injury. That does not make sense to me.

Slinging a heavy weight around uncontrollably -- that might lead to injury. :) I don't think that's what MAXOT is all about though.

how many other workout methods have u tried? and this i presume has the best results then?

I have not tried many different weight training programs, but MAX-OT has given me results beyond my expectations.

MAX-OT rewards intense lifting and hard work in spades, and I'm not going to try and fix something that isn't broken.

john, dont you think lifting that heavy, for that long, without break could lead to injury?
the max-OT handbook suggests a 1 week break every 10-12weeks, are you worried an injury could kind of "sneak up" on you?

I do take a one-week break every 3 months or so. I took a week off in the middle of my bulk, and I'm going to take another week off in a month or so. I don't want to take any time off right now because I just started my cut and I want to keep on pumping for now - I'm doing everything that I can to keep my gains.

Hey john i noticed on your workout spread sheet you have enough space for 5 exercises for each muscle group. just wondering if you are doing 5 differnt exercises for each group on the Max-OT. And if you are i thought yu were only suppose to do 3 exercises that are 3x6 a peice

I created extra space because sometimes I do as many as 5 exercises per muscle group, however that's very rare. I usually I do 3 or 4 exercises per muscle group. For example I did 4 exercises for my arms and 4 for my chest when I was bulking. I know what MAX-OT says, but I'm never shy about changing things as I see fit. If you want to call what I do a modified MAX-OT program, or something else entirely, that's cool with me!

john, I noticed you mention keeping your gains and trying to lose weight very slow this time. then i looked at your food log and saw that you kinda went from 4k calories/day to 2500.

1) how would that be on yer gains? or are you just testing the waters right now and will increase/decrease if necessary.

2)how the heck you holding uP? you have gotta be starving. not in a bad way like you're starving yourself but you must feel sooo hungry going from 4k - 2500 in a couple days. i recently started my cut again and have been having about 2700-2800 not counted to the last cal though.i think i was having 3500 or maybe a bit more when i was tryign to bulk. so now im having hard time trying to eat less cuz i feel so hungry. just wondered if u could lemme know if u are just killin to eat eat eat still...lol

2)how the heck you holding uP? you have gotta be starving. not in a bad way like you're starving yourself but you must feel sooo hungry going from 4k - 2500 in a couple days. i recently started my cut again and have been having about 2700-2800 not counted to the last cal though.i think i was having 3500 or maybe a bit more when i was tryign to bulk. so now im having hard time trying to eat less cuz i feel so hungry. just wondered if u could lemme know if u are just killin to eat eat eat still...lolI think it's more what you eat rather than how much you eat that will determine how hungry you are.

I created extra space because sometimes I do as many as 5 exercises per muscle group, however that's very rare. I usually I do 3 or 4 exercises per muscle group. For example I did 4 exercises for my arms and 4 for my chest when I was bulking. I know what MAX-OT says, but I'm never shy about changing things as I see fit. If you want to call what I do a modified MAX-OT program, or something else entirely, that's cool with me!
I swear your routine and mine are exactly alike.

I call mine a modified MAXOT program I guess. Whatever. It's just my routine, call it what you want. I don't pyramid, and I incorporate similar MAXOT principles, but I don't do as much volume as they sometimes recommend.

John,

I was wondering how you arrived at your current caloric intake levels for this cutting phase (2500-3000). What resources / formulas did you use?

Also, are you expecting to be simply maintaining muscle during this phase, or do you hope for some modest gains?

john, I noticed you mention keeping your gains and trying to lose weight very slow this time. then i looked at your food log and saw that you kinda went from 4k calories/day to 2500.
I think 2,500 may have been a little low. I've been bumping up a bit since the one day I ate 2,550 calories. Today I'll be eating a little over 3,000 calories (I made an additional change to today's diet that won't show in my online food logs until tomorrow.)



1) how would that be on yer gains? or are you just testing the waters right now and will increase/decrease if necessary.

Exactly.



2)how the heck you holding uP? you have gotta be starving. not in a bad way like you're starving yourself but you must feel sooo hungry going from 4k - 2500 in a couple days. i recently started my cut again and have been having about 2700-2800 not counted to the last cal though.i think i was having 3500 or maybe a bit more when i was tryign to bulk. so now im having hard time trying to eat less cuz i feel so hungry. just wondered if u could lemme know if u are just killin to eat eat eat still...lol
I've been feeling a little bit more hungry than usual, that's for sure. Nothing too bad, but after four months of stuffing myself it feels weird to be even a little bit hungry. I felt a little bit weak this morning doing my workout, too. I hope I can bump my calories up and still lose weight - my guess is that I can. I'm going to be aiming for more like 3,000+ calories per day now. We'll see how it goes.

John,

I was wondering how you arrived at your current caloric intake levels for this cutting phase (2500-3000). What resources / formulas did you use?

I'm winging it. ;)

I picked 2,500 - 3,000 calories per day to start, but now I think 3,000 - 3,300 might be a better level for me at this point. It only took me a couple days of listening to my body to figure this out. I use my "book" knowledge to shape my general plan of attack, but I have a difficult time treating health and fitness like it's rocket science. I find that going with my gut instinct and listening to my body are my best sources of knowledge once my overall plan is mapped out.


Also, are you expecting to be simply maintaining muscle during this phase, or do you hope for some modest gains?
No, I won't make any muscle gains while I'm cuitting. Not at these caloric levels!

I'm winging it. ;)

I picked 2,500 - 3,000 calories per day to start, but now I think 3,000 - 3,300 might be a better level for me at this point. It only took me a couple days of listening to my body to figure this out. I use my "book" knowledge to shape my general plan of attack, but I have a difficult time treating health and fitness like it's rocket science. I find that going with my gut instinct and listening to my body are my best sources of knowledge once my overall plan is mapped out.
No, I won't make any muscle gains while I'm cuitting. Not at these caloric levels!

That makes sense, and I think its a good approach.

Looking at your diet logs from early 2003, I don't know how you were able to complete your workouts! :) 1600 cals, sometimes lower. No wonder you dropped the weight so fast! I also see why you are not reccommending those levels. I've been at 2000-2100 per day for a while and the fat is coming off plenty fast, and I'm just barely maintaining my lifting strength. I feel that if my intake was just a tad lower I'd have no energy for workouts. I think I'll be raising that intake soon, as soon as I have a strength training day where I see a deficit in strength.

I can't wait to start bulking!

I think it's more what you eat rather than how much you eat that will determine how hungry you are.


i was eating lots of clean good food. im eating basically teh same things now but just less amounts. going from stuffing yer face with clean food to same food just less calories...oh god i feel the hunger. i drink lots of water and everything to combat it. im sure after a while i'll adapt but as john said it's weird to feel a bit hungry after stuffin yer face for so long.

John, How has your muscle held up with the drastic drop in calories? I would think you would want to throttle down your calorie intake more slowly. 500 less per week instead of a big drop. Or even 300 less per week. I've read that too big of drops can cause muscle loss pretty badly as your body tries to adapt.

4000 -> 3500 -> 3000 -> 2500 or even 4000 -> 3700 -> 3400 -> 3100 -> 2800 -> 2500 seems safer to me for preserving muscle than the big drop.

John, How has your muscle held up with the drastic drop in calories? I would think you would want to throttle down your calorie intake more slowly. 500 less per week instead of a big drop. Or even 300 less per week. I've read that too big of drops can cause muscle loss pretty badly as your body tries to adapt.

4000 -> 3500 -> 3000 -> 2500 or even 4000 -> 3700 -> 3400 -> 3100 -> 2800 -> 2500 seems safer to me for preserving muscle than the big drop.

Well, it's only been a couple of days so I don't think I could do much damage in that short of time (although perhaps that's not true - maybe someone could chime in with some data?) My measurements are still ok: my arms dropped a little bit - they're just over 16 inches - but I attributed that to the 6 pound water loss and going off creatine. My chest is actually a little bigger, almost 43.25 inches.

I think you are right, though, dropping my calories so suddenly was probably not such a good idea. I'm raising them back up. Today I ate 3,500 calories; tomorrow I'll do the same, and then drop them more slowly from here on out. Yeah, why take chances - I'm in no hurry. Besides, I've been feeling hungry and weak the past couple of days. I think I'll go for 3,500 for the rest of the week and see how I do. Thanks for the advice! :tu:

I am a big fan of MAX-OT too because it just makes good, common sense. If you aren't lifting challenging weights and lollygagging in the gym, then you aren't going to have much success in building muscle (IMO). My problem is my elbows started giving me alot of pain, even if I bumped them ever so slightly. This could have been because of poor form on my part on such exercises as skullcrushers, which seemed to aggrivate my elbows big time. The doc said I had minor bone spurs, but he could do more harm than good by going in and grinding bone away. I am learning how to use high intensity and speed more effectively in the gym. I try to let my ego at the door as far as how much weight I can lift and this has helped me alot.

hey john how long are your max-ot workouts lasting i know the guide says your suppose to get them in around 45 mins, but with the breaks and every thing that seems to be a stretch if you are not doing the 5 day a week workout.

hey john how long are your max-ot workouts lasting i know the guide says your suppose to get them in around 45 mins, but with the breaks and every thing that seems to be a stretch if you are not doing the 5 day a week workout.

I'm finding it to still be a stretch even WITH the 5 day split.
6 warmup sets x 3 minutes rest = 18 minutes + time to do exercise (3 minutes?) = 21 minutes gone right out of the gate before you've even started exercising!!!

-Allen

hey john how long are your max-ot workouts lasting i know the guide says your suppose to get them in around 45 mins, but with the breaks and every thing that seems to be a stretch if you are not doing the 5 day a week workout.

My legs and back/biceps/traps workouts usually run no more than 45 minutes. My pecs/delts/triceps workouts run a little long due to the volume I'm presently doing when working those muscle groups.

I'm finding it to still be a stretch even WITH the 5 day split.
6 warmup sets x 3 minutes rest = 18 minutes + time to do exercise (3 minutes?) = 21 minutes gone right out of the gate before you've even started exercising!!!

-Allen

Most don't count the initial warm-up sets towards their time. Also, resting 3 full minutes between warmup sets is (IMO) overkill and counter-productive to intensity. I usually rest about 1 minute between warm-up and acclimation sets, and 2 minutes (3 minutes MAXIMUM) between working sets. I also only do warm-ups once for each muscle group.

I find that doing these things helps keep my workouts brief and intense without compromising lifting strength due to muscle fatigue/lactic acid buildup.

something else im hoping someone would clear up for me. some people doing max-ot are trying to go to failure on all 3 sets/ and some are doing a weight that makes them go to failure on there last set. which is the correct way??

something else im hoping someone would clear up for me. some people doing max-ot are trying to go to failure on all 3 sets/ and some are doing a weight that makes them go to failure on there last set. which is the correct way??

I work to complete failure on every set. That's what it's all about, in my book.

I'm finding it to still be a stretch even WITH the 5 day split.
6 warmup sets x 3 minutes rest = 18 minutes + time to do exercise (3 minutes?) = 21 minutes gone right out of the gate before you've even started exercising!!!

-Allen

MAX-OT states that you only need to perform one warmup per muscle group.

You are right though that some of the splits in the MAX-OT guide are pretty tight. Week #1's Arms workout is simply not possible to do in 45 minutes. Its Biceps/Triceps/Forearms, 5 sets each. Thats 15 total sets, with at least 2 warm ups: biceps and triceps (you could make the case for or against forearm warmup. I skip it)

MAX-OT states that you only need to perform one warmup per muscle group.

You are right though that some of the splits in the MAX-OT guide are pretty tight. Week #1's Arms workout is simply not possible to do in 45 minutes. Its Biceps/Triceps/Forearms, 5 sets each. Thats 15 total sets, with at least 2 warm ups: biceps and triceps (you could make the case for or against forearm warmup. I skip it)

Actually the arm group is what I'm thinking. Yes with two warm ups and 5 sets per 3/muscles it is impossible.

Most of the splits shown are impossible when you add in the time invested into the warmup.

I keep thinking they met your total time doing the HEAVY sets will be 30-40 minutes.

-Allen

Actually the arm group is what I'm thinking. Yes with two warm ups and 5 sets per 3/muscles it is impossible.

Most of the splits shown are impossible when you add in the time invested into the warmup.

I keep thinking they met your total time doing the HEAVY sets will be 30-40 minutes.

-Allen
yeah right. but if he meant 30-40 minutes not counting the warm-ups, then that's no really all that short now, is it? Hardly a distinction from yer average Joe's workout program.

I only really have the problem with the arm workout. I'm switching to his second split program next week. I havent looked at it closely yet but I recall it being much different.

If you are going heavy, MAX-OT style, 5 sets might be pushing it IMO. I wouldn't do any more than 3 heavy sets for bis, tris, and forearms. That is nine total sets at 4-6 reps each. So 9 HEAVY sets x 3 minutes each = 27 minutes. That allows 18 minutes for your warmup exercises. 18 minutes / 3 warmup sets = 6 minutes per bodypart. I don't think I would need to warm up my forearms though, so 45 minutes works for me. It will keep you from talking and resting too long, that's for sure. How many people look at th clock to see how long they are resting between sets? Three minutes go by pretty quick after a heavy set of squats. Time is wasted loading plates, ect. that you don't realize. :bb: