This is my first post to the forum. I've been working out pretty religiously for a couple of years now and have made great gains. I started out, like a lot of people, without much clue about what to do. I got a book and started out with full body workouts three times a week in a classic three set, 8-12 rep range. As time went on I learned more and more about muscle physiology and workout regimens. But, sometimes it seems I've "learned" too much! As I outgrew my full body 3X a week system, I hunted around for a different routine. There are such dedicated advocates for all the various regimens out there: HST, HIT, MAX-OT and so on. Here's what I've been doing for awhile now:

4-Day split hitting each muscle twice a week hard.
Sunday: Chest/Shoulder/Triceps
4 sets flat bench (usually get 10-9-7-6 reps with the weight I use)
4 sets decline bench (here I try and get 8 reps out in each set)
4 sets dumbell flys
4 sets Standing Military press (usually get 8-7-6-5 reps or so)
3 sets lateral shoulder raises
3 sets dumbell shrugs
3 sets of dips, emphasizing triceps (will soon be able to add weight belt)
3 sets of triceps press downs
3 sets of crunches.

Monday: Legs/Back/Biceps
4 sets Deadlifts (10 reps in each set, last couple in last set super hard)
4 sets squats (10 reps first 3, usually only get about 8 or 9 in last set)
4 sets pullups (6-6-4-4 is normal at this point for me)
4 sets of T-Bar rows
3 sets of calf raises
4 sets of Barbell curls (enough weight for about 8-7-6-5)
4 sets of preacher curls (usually get about 8/set, maybe 6 in last set)
3 sets of crunches

On wednesday I repeat sunday, but replace decline bench with incline. And on thursday I repeat monday. I'm in a bulking phase right now and a total ecto, so I've cut out cardio until the spring when I'll cut. Each workout lasts about an hour to an hour and fifteen minutes.

One additional wrinkle that others on this forum might be interested in is that I go up 1-lb a week in bench work, deadlifts, squats, t-bar rows and barbell curls. Fractional weight plates are great. I've got 8 1/2 -lb plates and after two workouts at one weight, I plop on another 1/2-lb plate to both sides of the bar and just pump out the same reps. I got these things 15 weeks ago and I've added 15 lbs to all of my major compound movements.

So here is my question: do you max-ot specialists think this is overtraining? My thinking has been that each muscle is getting 72 hours of rest between 1st and 2nd workout and then 96 hours of rest before starting the cylce over. That seems to me to be quite sufficient. I always get DOMS the next day, but it's always gone by the day after that. Plus, on a this-should-be-fun level, I sort of like hitting each muscle twice. Like John, my favorite workout is the chest/shoulder/tri one and I would hate to wait a whole week in between them!

Obviously I'm making gains, so why fix something that isn't broke? But, that perfectionist part of me wonders if maybe I'd be making *more* gains if I tried an HIT or max-ot type system. Comments?

I am no MAXOT perfectionist but I would consider this a lot of work for one day. You're doing 30+ sets a day! It just seems like a lot to me.

I really don't think that the chest, for example, needs 12 working sets. I've been on volume routines like this before and I just got burned out fast. When I started doing less volume and high intensity (not "HIT" but just higher intensity than I was doing, and less sets), my body just exploded with growth.

My philosophy is that you can either work out hard, or you can work out long. You can't do both. If I was doing 12 sets for chest I guarantee you that they would not have the same intensity that my sets have now (by the way, with about 4-5 working sets tops). It simply is not possible.

Of course you summed up an extremely good point: "if it ain't broke, why fix it?" Your routine is SO much different than mine, but dude if it's working why change it?

Of course there is the argument that says "well he might be seeing MORE or BETTER results with a different program," I don't know. To each his own.

IMO (FWIW) I'd have to agree and say you are doing a massive amount of volume for 4 days. You have quite a bit of overlap and I personally think you could cut the volume in half in exchange for slightly upping your intensity. More leaning towards HIT style... but not necessarily training to failure, either.

For instance:

Chest: You are doing 2 presses and also isolating pecs with flys and tris with press downs. I would probably drop one of the presses and cut the sets for flys and press downs in half. If I had to choose between F/I/D I would probably do incline and flat or incline and dec (alternating days).

Biceps: 8 sets of curls? Barbell curls then preacher curls? Honestly, there isnt really any difference of value between the two IMO. Either drop one of these exercises entirely or limit yourself to 1-2 sets of each. Personally I would only do standing barbell curls between the two as they have a better ROM. The only advantage really of preacher curls is that it's harder to cheat. But if you're not cheating in the first place, there's really no difference. Well, okay, preacher curls target the lower end (fully extended portion) of your ROM better and the top end worse, but that is minutia, really and I doubt most people would see any difference at all.

I thrid that...........that is workout overkill. I do an 6-8 week cycle of Max OT for strength and then a 6-8 cycle of HST for Mass. It seems to be working well for me.

One additional wrinkle that others on this forum might be interested in is that I go up 1-lb a week in bench work, deadlifts, squats, t-bar rows and barbell curls. Fractional weight plates are great. I've got 8 1/2 -lb plates and after two workouts at one weight, I plop on another 1/2-lb plate to both sides of the bar and just pump out the same reps. I got these things 15 weeks ago and I've added 15 lbs to all of my major compound movements.
Just an anecdote: I work, in a bulk, with about half the number of sets you do for each muscle group (but also lower rep ranges) and regularly increase between 2.5 to 10 pounds on the big compound movements per workout (bench, rows, dips, squats, deadlifts, military press). Don't be shy about increasing the weight.

You, having used your workout already for fifteen weeks, might experiment with less sets but more aggressive weight increases for a period of time. Alternatively, you may try using the same rep range and weight for all your sets (once again with less sets) instead of, for the most part, pyramiding.

That workout has a ton of work. You would be better off trying some of the 40+ workouts located here (http://forums.jpfitness.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/1/t/000056.html).

They are all balanced, good, proven workouts and you can pick one depending on your goals.