http://2k3.traidor.com/fark/pacers_pistons_brawl.zip

:rolleyes:

See, I thought the NBA became a complete disgrace when it banned zone defense. But this . . . this is ridiculous.

http://mfile.akamai.com/7883/rm/vod...3935750.200k.rm

fan gets a knuckle sandwich

link is broken

This is a tough issue. YES indeed none of this should of happened. That foul that Ben Wallace recieved from Artest did not look like nothing to get into a fight over. I have been fouled harder. But hey that could of been simmering for awhile during the game (trash talk, etc). Artest was pretty stupid for laying on the scorer's table. Even though I do totally support the NBA decision on the suspensions's I think it is funny how Artest dropped the fan that step up to him even though it looked like he slipped on the court I still thought it was pretty funny.

that broke out for the stupidest reason, still funny to watch, but yeah...a disgrace

Personally, I agree with the Pacers in this case. Throwing any object at Artest (beer in this case) is assault. I totally agree that the Pacers and Artest have a right to protect themselves. Yet, on the other hand, Artest had no reason to go into the stands and take matters into his own hands. He should have let security or the cops arrest the guy that threw the cup at him. But as soon as the fans went down onto the court, I believe it was open season on them, and the Pacers had every reason to fight them if they felt threatened by the fans. I know I would have done the same thing as the Pacers did. I just hope that the Pistons take away the season tickets of the fans involved and give them a trespass warning. That’s what sports teams should start doing to the fans that act out like that. We’ll see what happens though.

Doesn't Ron ARtest make over 5 million dollars? For that price I think he can handle getting hit with some beer and not fight back. All the players should have let security handle the fans regardless of what they did. No player was ever in any real physical danger. No fans would have even been in the court if players didn't go into the stands.

This is a pretty tough issue to pick a side on. I see fault in the fans and the players.

I have a lot of respect for athetes and could never imagine throwing something at them. Heck I wouldn't do that to anyone for any reason, that's just low-class. You see this in sports all the time, wrestling too. I remember watching wrestling a few years ago when Hulk Hogan was the bad guy, and the fans were chucking beer and other things into the ring, and one nailed him in the shoulder. It's bad enough when they're doing it to athletes, but to do it to a person PLAYING A PART as a bad guy!? DUMB!

So I think that the fans acted very class-less, but I think it was also pretty dumb of him to go running into the stands throwing blows at people when he was not even sure who threw the beer in the first place.

This is a tough issue. YES indeed none of this should of happened. That foul that Ben Wallace recieved from Artest did not look like nothing to get into a fight over. I have been fouled harder. But hey that could of been simmering for awhile during the game (trash talk, etc). Artest was pretty stupid for laying on the scorer's table. Even though I do totally support the NBA decision on the suspensions's I think it is funny how Artest dropped the fan that step up to him even though it looked like he slipped on the court I still thought it was pretty funny.
Ahh, I just watched it again (thanks for the link DefJef), and I would have to agree, that foul did not seem that bad at all to me.

I mentioned earlier that Artest ran into the stands punching when he didn't know who threw the beer, because that is what a couple of news reports said. But from looking at that video I am not so sure now, he might have known.

I do think this whole thing never should have happened. But honestly I don't know how I would have reacted if I saw someone throw something at me. I may have had to throw some blows too. I would hope I could keep my composure but who knows.

Seeing the fans pouring drinks on the players and throwing stuff as they were trying to leave through the tunnel into the lockerroom was just completely discusting.

That was footage from an NBA game? I could have sworn I was watching the Vibe Awards.

I remember watching wrestling a few years ago when Hulk Hogan was the bad guy, and the fans were chucking beer and other things into the ring, and one nailed him in the shoulder. It's bad enough when they're doing it to athletes, but to do it to a person PLAYING A PART as a bad guy!? DUMB!

I could be wrong, but I think that is a different situation. I think the whole point of having a bad guy is so the fans would really get into the sport. It increases their ratings. Now maybe they didn't expect for the chucking beer, but I bet that was still all a part of the show that they wanted to present by having a "bad guy".

The fans were out of line, there is no doubt about that. But I think the players reactions were worse. Both sides need to be punished accordingly. If a fan throws a beer at a player, he would be escorted out of the stadium, and maybe given a fine. If a player punches a person in the face, his penalty should be much more severe.

Thats easy to say while sober.....
You've probably never done anything stupid while drunk either.... :whistle:

Hey, heres a drink.....whoops.....there goes your inhibitions. :lol:
I don't act stupid when I drink. I'm not one of those guys who uses that as an excuse every time I do something idiotic like start a fight or sleep with the wrong girl. That's moronic. If you can't handle your alcohol then don't drink.

All of you are saying that the players should have let security hadle it. That is what caused the problem to explode, the lack of security. From the beginning, there was no security. They didn't show up until it was almost a full riot. One of the guys who threw a punch at Artest's head was wearing credentials. The Pistons had no security people around the pacers bench like the do in most arenas for the visiting team. I am not saying the players were right, but by far the fans were to blame for this. The Pistons CEO, trying to blame it on Artest for laying on the scorer's table, is a fool. I hope the NBA slaps with with the biggest fine in history.

I haven't posted in a long time...but this is an issue I'm just too passionate about not to respond to.

As you can see by my logo, I'm a huge NBA fan and furthermore and Pacers fan. I have been to all but one home game this year,and I don't plan to miss too many.

Here are my reflections of this event:
Everyone was wrong, let's not mince words.
Ron Artest has a history of reactionary violence, that is WHY he laid on the scorers table. He wanted to SHOW the league that he was being non-violent, because he has a history and he didn't want to get any fines of suspended or anything.
The fan that threw the bottle is a reflection of the poor sportsmanship that goes on around the league. I'd like to believe that here in Indiana nothing like that would happen, but I believe it's feasible anywhere. What worries me is not the fans, but the security.
Detroit was unable to secure the fans, the players, or the fans reactions directed toward the Pacers. Why should any athlete play anywhere where they are not 100% secure? Look what happened to Monica Seles...
As for the decisions on suspensions: I'll accept anything, and I expected the outcome to be as it was, however I believe the real problem is that the entire decision rested with just one man. David Stern set an arbitrary number. There was no precedent for this type of behavior in the league and so he just randomly set one. Vernon Maxwell went in to the stands and hit a fan after the fan yelled obsceneties about Maxwell's daughter. Maxwell got 10 games suspended. Thats the precedent. Ron Artest got 73 games suspended for the same reason as Maxwell, as did Stephen Jackson with 30 games suspended.

As for the NBA:
It's awesome, don't stop watching or think its all thug ball because of this one incident.
Don't let the news about this unfoldling in a Kobe-trial-like fashion make you think there is something wrong with the league, let it make you think that its something wrong with the media.
I love this game!

Doesn't Ron ARtest make over 5 million dollars? For that price I think he can handle getting hit with some beer and not fight back. All the players should have let security handle the fans regardless of what they did. No player was ever in any real physical danger. No fans would have even been in the court if players didn't go into the stands.

hey dude i don't follow your logic, are you saying, that if you earned the same amount of money that you shouldn't be allowed to respond to people throwing things at you, that you should just turn the other cheek and let them throw more at you and your only reason for allowing this is because you earn a lot of money.

in the office if someone throws a paper weight at you, you must do nothing because you earn a certain amount of money, for all you know the fan might earn more money than artest.

i think these actions are atrocious and are totally unacceptable but we must not start pointing fingers which is very easy to do from the comfort of our lounge.

maybe they should stop selling alcohol at the games, nobody wants that but it would sort out the problems.

hey dude i don't follow your logic, are you saying, that if you earned the same amount of money that you shouldn't be allowed to respond to people throwing things at you, that you should just turn the other cheek and let them throw more at you and your only reason for allowing this is because you earn a lot of money.

I'm not saying he should just sit there any take it, all I am saying is that punching fans was not the proper response. What I meant by the pay comparison is this: In sports, there is rivalry which means that some fans love certain players and others hate them. Its a part of the game. Players get yelled at when a bad call is made, they get heckled, etc. It is a hazardous job in that respect. People who work in a hazerdous environment are generally paid a higher wage to compsenate for that.


in the office if someone throws a paper weight at you, you must do nothing because you earn a certain amount of money, for all you know the fan might earn more money than artest.


First of all, I never said "do nothing." I simply think what he DID do, was wrong and worse than what the fans did. Second, if I got hit in the face with a paper weight, I would probably be bleeding as opposed to wet from beer. If, in the office a customer threw beer at my face and I turned around and started punching the customer in the face as a response, I would not have a job. I would have had security escort that customer out of the building, and if it was a paper weight I would have had the police escort him to jail. That would have been the more mature response.

My opinion is this: the fans were wrong and the payers were more wrong in their response.

my bad i blew it out of proportion with my example, (i just feel his salary has nothing to do with it)

but you have to realize that competetive players are very pumped up and the situation is very volatile. look at nearly any situation where a player in any sport is assualted by a fan or player(mostly other players) it generally escalates out of control.

i don't watch basket ball and i live in australia so i don't really know what sparked the whole fiasco, all i see on the news are the blows. but i know that on the sports field of high level competition, it is very tense and charged and when something doesn't go your way or you do something by mistake (eg foul) and people get up in your face you can get very pissed off and at that point it does not take much for somebody to snap.

if this is what happened then i sympathise with him, if not then he was very stupid. regardless what he did was stupid BUT it should not have been allowed to happen.

and i think the suspension that he has been slapped with is unfair, it is an example to others not to do the same.

we will see

cheers
~v

Let me see if I have this right: Spreewell attacks and chokes his coach without provocation and gets suspended for 68 games. Artest reacts to having a cup of beer thrown in his face and he gets suspended for 73 games. Makes sense to me.

Let me see if I have this right: Spreewell attacks and chokes his coach without provocation and gets suspended for 68 games. Artest reacts to having a cup of beer thrown in his face and he gets suspended for 73 games. Makes sense to me.

It makes sense from David Stern's perspective. Artest exposed the league to millions of dollars worth of potential legal liability. It would have been tough for anybody to get money out of the league for the Spreewell incident, because everything was internal, but now I bet the lawyers are smacking their lips.

I see the league, the Pistons, the arena, the security company, and the players all having to hand out big confidential settlements to the fans on this one (unless they decide to go to court, which would mean even higher costs). The cost to the league will almost certainly be greater than Artest's $5 million salary.

As anybody who knows anything about how universities react to underage drinking on campus, most companies, regardless of the lip service they pay, care a lot more about potential liability than they care about justice or sound management.

And that doesn't even count the cost of the bad PR, which is nontrivial and, at this point, with the Kobe's trial and the US Olympic failures drawing derision worldwide, already out of control.

Athletes have a well documented history of impulsivity. Many of them live in a different world from us; one in which they make gobs of money for playing a game that most people play for fun - one in which they get what they want. These influences seem to shape them into peculiar people, and a great many of them can't really control themselves as a normal adult has learned to do.

They live literally in the lap of luxury, in a position that millions of others yearn for, and instead of feeling blessed and lucky many of them pretentiously ask for more, and in short act like spoiled little biatches.

Some are well mannered and humble and obviously some are not :)

Hah! I just saw Charles Barkley's opinion of this situation on the news this morning. he said something along the lines of, and i'm paraphrasing here, "If somebody hits you, you have the right to beat the crap out of them"

classic. I loved hearing "beat the crap out of them" or whatever he said, at 8 in the morning on CNN

Hah! I just saw Charles Barkley's opinion of this situation on the news this morning. he said something along the lines of, and i'm paraphrasing here, "If somebody hits you, you have the right to beat the crap out of them"



Speaking of Charles Barkley, when he was still playing in the NBA, I remember hearing about an incident with him at a bar in down town Orlando once. I think he was with some hot women and some drunk guys starting saying something to them. So Charles ends up getting into a fight with the drunk guys and ends up throwing one of them through the front window of the bar. "If somebody hits you, you have the right to beat the crap out of them", sounds like something Charles would definitely say.

But my opinion on the matter falls in line with Charles' opinion. If someone hits you, you have a right to defend yourself, even if it is a plastic cup filled with beer and doesn't really hurt you. One thing I don't understand is why no one is saying anything about the fan that threw the cup. He should be arrested, prosecuted for battery, his season tickets should be revoked, and he should get a trespass warrant against him from attending any future Piston's games. That's what I would do if I was David Stern. They need to send a message to the fans saying that kind of action is unacceptable. But that will probably never happen.

One thing I don't understand is why no one is saying anything about the fan that threw the cup. He should be arrested, prosecuted for battery, his season tickets should be revoked, and he should get a trespass warrant against him from attending any future Piston's games. That's what I would do if I was David Stern. They need to send a message to the fans saying that kind of action is unacceptable. But that will probably never happen.
I couldn't agree more.

While the fan's actions were incorrigible, you would think that a professional athlete that takes home a ridiculous paycheck to play a "game" would be able to handle himself professionally despite the adversity. I think they're all a bunch of spoiled shits and everyone of them should have to set out the rest of the season without a paycheck. It might teach 'em a lesson if they can't buy 'em a new Hummer for Christmas with 20 inch dubs and more DVD players than Circuit City.

I couldn't agree more.

But my opinion on the matter falls in line with Charles' opinion. If someone hits you, you have a right to defend yourself, even if it is a plastic cup filled with beer and doesn't really hurt you.
You must mean retaliate. People are often misunderstanding what self-defense means. Defend is defined as "to make or keep safe from danger, attack, or harm." Running into the stands to throw punches does not fall in that category. He was not in self defense mode, he was in attack mode.
One thing I don't understand is why no one is saying anything about the fan that threw the cup. He should be arrested, prosecuted for battery, his season tickets should be revoked, and he should get a trespass warrant against him from attending any future Piston's games. That's what I would do if I was David Stern. They need to send a message to the fans saying that kind of action is unacceptable. But that will probably never happen.
I agree that the fan should be arrested and banned from future games. But I am referring to the fan who actually threw the cup, not the one who Artest attacked. From what I understand, he went after the wrong person. Is that not correct?