Hey guys, just wanted to say, I've been going to the gym for about 6 months now and it's a no brainer that my physique has changed tremendously. I actually have defined muscles and my stomach is pretty flat. I've honestly got the physique I want now, but the problem is abs. I just can't seem to get them. I have a thin layer of fat over my stomach and I seem to have no definition there, despite definition everywhere else.

I've been reading a lot of articles about abs and they all say a lot of different things, but one interesting one mentioned that you have to try to eat organic to achieve a six pack. K here's my diet more or less:

7.30AM

Oatmeal w/ milk and banana
2 Scoops 100% Whey Protein w/ milk
Multivitamin
10ml L-Carnitine

WORKOUT

10.30AM (PWO)

2 Scoops 100% Whey Protein w/ milk
1-2 Spoonfuls of Cottage Cheese

1PM

Can of Tuna
Assorted vegetables (stuff like gherkins, mushrooms, lettuce, tomatoes)
10ml L-Carnitine

4PM

Chilli con carne w/ kidney beans (or salmon, depends on what I have)
Assorted vegetables

7PM

Chicken Breast
Assorted vegetables
10ml L-Carnitine

10PM (before I sleep)
2 Scoops 100% Whey Protein w/ milk
1-2 Spoonfuls cottage cheese


This comes around to about 1700-1900 calories and my BMR+Activities is about 2100-2200. I train abs about 3-4 times a week doing 2-3 sets of crunches and 1-2 sets of hanging leg raises. I still can't seem to get any definition in my abs!!! :d_confuse :d_confuse

Any advice? :D

You don't need to eat organic to get abs.

You have to lose more fat to have your abs show. It's just that simple. The reason people are so proud when their abs show is because it's the last place fat generally leaves. So you just have to lose more body fat to see your abs. Sometimes, a lot more.

Eating organic isn't connected to seeing your abs. However, lots of foods that are not organic make losing weight very difficult (on account of High Fructose Corn Syrup, Partially Hydrogenated Soybean Oil, and Enriched Wheat Flour, among other things). This does not mean all organic stuff is necessarily ideal or even better than the non-organic stuff for something this simple - the food you eat is important; whether or not it is organic is less important than the more specific question of "What is in it" and the most important question of all "How much of it are you eating, and when?"

And there's no spot reducing, as you probably know. So, just keep losing fat the same way you would for any cutting program; there's nothing special about abs except that they're the last thing to get ripped.

I've honestly got the physique I want now, but the problem is abs. I just can't seem to get them.

Well if you've lost as much fat as you want to, then you ahve a couple of options. If you are above 10-12% BF, you will most likely need to loose more fat. While it is true that it is hard/impossible to 'develop' abs though fat, if they are sersiously under-developed and you're 10% BF or less, some good ab exoersices might help.

It sound like a couple of people have seen more ab definition while clean bulking. I think they were at or below 10% BF already though.

I suspect a lot has to do with genetics though. Mine seemed to have some definition at high BF than other prople. I carry more fat in other places.

Thanks for the replies. :tu:

No I think it is mainly due to what PeteBDawg said. It's due to the fact that the fat leaves the abs last.

I'll just keep going hard but if I plateu and see no more gains or something, I'll come back for advice.

Would you guys recommend putting more fat in my diet? Like fishoil and flax seed?

I'd say put the fishoil and flaxseed in your diet for many reasons - you need fat to burn fat and you need fat for a healthy brain and heart.

get your post-workout shake in order. if you're cutting and very close to your goals go for a banana, 8 ounces milk, 1 scoop of whey.

replace carbs, even healthy carbs other than pwo with healthy fats like fish oils.

CAPS..................

Hey guys, just wanted to say, I've been going to the gym for about 6 months now and it's a no brainer that my physique has changed tremendously. I actually have defined muscles and my stomach is pretty flat. I've honestly got the physique I want now, but the problem is abs. I just can't seem to get them. I have a thin layer of fat over my stomach and I seem to have no definition there, despite definition everywhere else.

IT'S ALL DIET RELATED FIRST, THEN CARDIO, THEN WEIGHTS.


I've been reading a lot of articles about abs and they all say a lot of different things, but one interesting one mentioned that you have to try to eat organic to achieve a six pack. K here's my diet more or less:

THAT ORGANIC STUFF IS B.S.


7.30AM

Oatmeal w/ milk and banana
2 Scoops 100% Whey Protein w/ milk
Multivitamin
10ml L-Carnitine

LOSE THE MILK!!!!!!! LOOK AT THE CARBS IN MILK, WHAT ARE THEY.
RIGHT, THEY ARE ALL SUGAR, ALL OF THEM, NOT GOOD FOR ABS!

AS WELL, CARDIO WHEN YOU RISE WOULD BE IDEAL. I DON'T SEE CARDIO ACTIVITY ANYWHERE.



WORKOUT

10.30AM (PWO)

2 Scoops 100% Whey Protein w/ milk
1-2 Spoonfuls of Cottage Cheese

NOT IDEAL. TRY DEXTROSE POWDER/WHEY PROTEIN IN WATER, NOT MILK. U DO NOT WANT TO SLOW DIGESTION HERE. SUGAR HERE IS FINE POST-WORKOUT, AS IT'S USED FOR GLYCOGEN REPLINISHMENT.


1PM

Can of Tuna
Assorted vegetables (stuff like gherkins, mushrooms, lettuce, tomatoes)
10ml L-Carnitine

NOT TOO BAD, BUT UTILIZE SOME HEALTHY FATS.


4PM

Chilli con carne w/ kidney beans (or salmon, depends on what I have)
Assorted vegetables

VERY BAD.........CHILI HAS LOTS OF FAT, BAD FAT.

7PM

Chicken Breast
Assorted vegetables
10ml L-Carnitine

MORE FATS HERE...............

10PM (before I sleep)
2 Scoops 100% Whey Protein w/ milk
1-2 Spoonfuls cottage cheese

LOSE THE MILK! DAIRY WHILE CUTTING FOR MOST HOLDS THEM BACK!



This comes around to about 1700-1900 calories and my BMR+Activities is about 2100-2200. I train abs about 3-4 times a week doing 2-3 sets of crunches and 1-2 sets of hanging leg raises. I still can't seem to get any definition in my abs!!! :d_confuse :d_confuse

WHERE IS THE CARDIO??????? WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO ENCOURAGE YOUR BODY TO USE FAT FOR FUEL?

Any advice? :D


RE-VAMP THAT DIET, YOU ACTUALLY NEED MORE FOOD, AND LOSE THE DAIRY. CENTER CARBS AROUND THE WORKOUT AND IMPLEMENT CARDIO AT 65-75% OF YOUR MHR.

YOU'VE MANY A PLACE TO IMPROVE, AND IF YOU DO, YOU'LL SEE RESULTS.

~SC~

What about the new soy milk products, like So Good, that are now becoming so popular? They hardly have any carbs in them...what do you think?? :confused:

Anyone have suggestions for non-milk breakfast options? I usually eat about a cup of skim milk with shredded wheat in the morning. I don't like oatmeal, and I feel like I need some type of carbs in me or I'll get massive headaches. What do people do in this situation?


I know that milk contain bad sugar carbs, but according to fitday.com a cup of skim would have only roughly 12 grams. Can that really be holding me back from ab progress?

From my reckoning you have over 250-300 g of protein a day?

6 scoops of protein + milk is about 25 x 6 = 150.
Can of tuna = 35
Chilli con carne + chicken breast = 60?
Cottage cheese = 15
Protein in oatmeal and kidney beans = 15

I would say thats FAR too much.

From what you say, you don't weight lift nearly enough to utilise all of that protein. I would suggest making your protein shakes with only the 1 scoop whey, and in the post work out drink, blend in a banana.
You cut out about 75 grams of protein you don't actually need, and you put in much needed carbs after your workout (+100 calories)
The added benefit also is that you end up eating 125 less calories, which adds to fat loss.

I know that milk contain bad sugar carbs

DRINK MILK... don't by into the bad sugar thing... milk has many benefits... I drink skim.

While cutting, dairy can be an issue, especially milk.

1 cup of milk has 13 grams of carbs, all of which are lactose (SUGAR)

Purposely telling him to drink milk is ridiculous, and is not sound advice.
Leaving the option open to include it if there are no stalls/hinderances in progress is another thing.

I'd buy into that if I wanted results, but to each his own.

~SC~

CAPS..................




RE-VAMP THAT DIET, YOU ACTUALLY NEED MORE FOOD, AND LOSE THE DAIRY. CENTER CARBS AROUND THE WORKOUT AND IMPLEMENT CARDIO AT 65-75% OF YOUR MHR.

YOU'VE MANY A PLACE TO IMPROVE, AND IF YOU DO, YOU'LL SEE RESULTS.

~SC~

Sorry, I forgot to mention that in my WORKOUT after breakfast I actually lift weights + cardio. I do 10 mins bike, 20 mins ski machine, 10 mins rowing machine = 40 mins. All at medium intensity of course.

Is it OK to lift weights then rest then do cardio? It would be much easier for me if I could do both in one sitting (my gym is a bit far away and having to go twice in a day would be a pain).

Thanks for the advice about cutting out milk. What about before I sleep? Or do you think it's best for no milk at all? It's low fat btw.

Hey Swolecat, thanks for the fantastic advice, but I was wondering if it wasn't too much trouble if you could maybe write up a sample diet I should be following for losing fat? My BMR+Activities comes to 2200 calories. I don't have dex (can I replace pwo dex with a banana?) but I do have some flaxseed oil.

Advice on how to implement this on my diet, in fact, advice on a whole new diet, would be absolutely appreciated!! :tu: :D

umm, not to be offtopic, but i think that's how he makes his living. so you may have to pay to get that advice. ;)

umm, not to be offtopic, but i think that's how he makes his living. so you may have to pay to get that advice. ;)

I don't want to sound ungrateful or anything, or that I'm trying to get expert advice for free.

If Swolecat worked at my local gym, I would be throwing bundles of money at him already. :D

I don't mind paying, the problem is I live in New Zealand :D

I didn't know you were a private trainer Swolecat, sorry for the questions, and thanks for the advice so far.

So, without trying to sound cheap, does anybody else mind sharing to an unknowledgable fool like me an idea of a sample diet? :p

Whew, after much research I've come up with this diet for fat loss. Oh, and of course advice from you guys :tu: Wow, today was the first day I actually ate a well planned meal :claplow:

MEAL CALORIES PROTEIN CARBS FAT

Meal 1 (pre cardio):
1/3 cup oatmeal 202 8.78 34.46 3.59
banana 105 1.29 26.95 0.39
multivitamin
10ml L-Carnitine
5ml Colostrom powder
100% whey protein (2 scoops) 90.5 19.76 1.12 1.28

Meal 2 (post cardio):
100% whey protein (2 scoops) 90.5 19.76 1.12 1.28
1 tbsp flaxseed oil 129 0 0 15

Meal 3
1 can of tuna w/ water 130 30 0 0.3
1/2 cup brown rice 380 8 77 2

Meal 4
5 egg whites 86 18 1.2 0.25
Assorted veges

Meal 5
150g chicken breast 214.5 36.15 1.8 7.2
1 tbsp flaxseed oil 129 0 0 15

Meal 6
100% whey protein (2 scoops) 90.5 19.76 1.12 1.28
1-2 spoonful cottage cheese 26 3.2 1.1 0.7


TOTAL 1673 164.7 145.87 48.27
% 0.458978932 0.406504292 0.134516776





I haven't included the assorted veges I eat during each meal because the calorie count isn't really much and my veges vary a lot so I can't gauge the exact intake. + veges my calorie count is prolly going to go over 1700.

What ya guys think? ;)

I would drop the meal before cardio. Lose the banana and like swole said earlier focus your carbs around your workout. You are trying to shed fat. Don't eat starchy carb foods when you don't need to be eating them. There is a time and a place for carbs. Good Luck. Swolecat gave you lot's of good info.

Thanks for the comments inurb, but that "pre-cardio meal" is my breakfast! You mean I should drop the banana and oats, isn't that ok for breakfast?

And btw, I wait an hour and a 1/2 before I do cardio I'm not full.

Empty stomach cardio in the morning works very well... I'm about to go do it, but if you must eat before cardio, then I would suggest something with much less carbs, and more protein. When you do your cardio, there will be sugars and starches in your body, and your body will have to work through those before getting to your fat stores.

Empty stomach cardio in the morning works very well... I'm about to go do it, but if you must eat before cardio, then I would suggest something with much less carbs, and more protein. When you do your cardio, there will be sugars and starches in your body, and your body will have to work through those before getting to your fat stores.

My workout is actually lifting weights for say 45 minutes, before doing 40-50 minutes of cardio. I do this workout 1 and 1/2 hours AFTER eating a breakfast of oats and banana, so shouldn't that be alright?

I understand your point of doing cardio in a fasted state, but its just that its inconvenient for me to go to the gym twice in a day so I do cardio and weights all in one session, which is why I need carbs in the morning.

I think popular opinion is to keep cardio and weights seperate. You're not letting your body recover after the weights, and as a consequence you'll be burning muscle, not fat. I'd suggest: wake up, 30-40 minutes cardio, then eat your whey. If you must, do your weights about an hour after that. That way, it doesn't actually take much extra time.

But I understand your inconvenience point, but getting rid of that extra fat IS incovenient. I would suggest doing cardio or weights, but not both.